List of skills by profession that Hero AI is incapable of using

MarxF

MarxF

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

Europe

D/A

This thread is heavily polluted by people that consider a hero not using the skill due to recharge or energy problems an incapability of using said skill.

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draikin
Both are used correctly: the AI will in fact ignore their target lock/called target when using Signet of Rage and instead use it on the target (in range of course) that has the most adrenal skills on their skill bar.
I still see them using Signet of Rage on a caster when a warrior is close by when set on guard. I would have been surprised if the AI actually "peers" into each of the skills held by nearby foes and decides who has the most adrenaline skills, that would have been alot of work just to support 1 skill. Besides human players would not be able to look into enemy skill bars although they can have fore knowledge of the skills that will be used by the enemies.

Quote:
Signet of Toxic Shock is only used on targets suffering from Poison, I don't see how they can use it more effectively than that. This appears to be fixed after the recent hero AI update they now use Signet of Toxic Shock correctly. They also seem to use Purge Signet much better now to remove hexes and conditions rather than just using it on party members with multiple conditions.

Good News is my Gwen's combo works well now: [Signet of Midnight][Iron Palm][Entangling Asp][Signet of Toxic Shock]

Bad News is I have never ever seen her use [[Sadist's Signet]

Draikin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
I still see them using Signet of Rage on a caster when a warrior is close by when set on guard.
I'll try to test this skill again later. The impression I got was that they ignored their target lock on a caster and used it on warriors instead, perhaps it was a coincidence and they actually use it randomly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
I would have been surprised if the AI actually "peers" into each of the skills held by nearby foes and decides who has the most adrenaline skills, that would have been alot of work just to support 1 skill. Possibly, but they can in fact see the skill bars their opponents are using (and I'm reasonably certain they can also see how much energy their opponents have left).

Quote: Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
This appears to be fixed after the recent hero AI update they now use Signet of Toxic Shock correctly. They also seem to use Purge Signet much better now to remove hexes and conditions rather than just using it on party members with multiple conditions. The AI for Signet of Toxic Shock and Purge Signet was never changed as far as I know. They still spam Purge Signet as if it's Mend Ailment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Bad News is I have never ever seen her use Sadist's Signet They'll use it when they need the heal and the opponent is suffering from one or more conditions. I'd have to check but I don't think they'll use it when the opponent is only suffering from one condition.

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draikin
The AI for Signet of Toxic Shock and Purge Signet was never changed as far as I know. They still spam Purge Signet as if it's Mend Ailment.
No I am quite sure there is an improvement in Purge Signet. Before the recent hero update the behavior is like what is described on the wiki:

Quote:
Originally Posted by guildwiki
Heroes seem to only use this skill when multiple conditions are on an ally. http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Purge_Signet

Now they know how to use it for single condition and hexes too. I just saw her using it on my character who was inflicted with 1 hex but 0 condition.

Too bad [[Signet of Shadows] still sucks. They use it before blinding the target for the pathetic 29 damage in HM. Otherwise my Gwen's combo would work even better with a total of 80 damage from that signet instead.

toastgodsupreme

toastgodsupreme

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

United States

Me/

[signet of lost souls] won't be used while in passive mode. This is annoying for my N/Rt healer. I despise having to put a backline healer in anything but passive.

[protective spirit] is always used poorly, like in the cases of health degen, etc. It's never worth bringing unless you disable it and micromanage it yourself.

[signet of judgment] seems like they'll use it once, then for the rest of the fight never touch it again unless all their other skills are recharging.

[splinter weapon] and [vengeful weapon] get cast on my mesmer and ele quite a bit, and i'm almost NEVER wanding.

[fall back!] isn't used well. They want to use it as a heal, but normally no one is moving during the fight. I dunno, I've always seen it as a running skill or an after the fight skill to save time on bringing people back up to health.

MisterB

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

Warrior heroes use adrenaline skills poorly. They behave as if they are energy skills, and thus try to use them conservatively, rather than murdering face on recharge.

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme
[protective spirit] is always used poorly, like in the cases of health degen, etc. It's never worth bringing unless you disable it and micromanage it yourself.
If your health is already low from the degen, I suppose the hero is trying to prevent a death from the next attack by casting PS on you.

Quote:
[signet of judgment] seems like they'll use it once, then for the rest of the fight never touch it again unless all their other skills are recharging. Not true at all. My Me/Mo hero casts it very often throughout the battle, unless you have set yours to passive.

Draikin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Purge_Signet

Now they know how to use it for single condition and hexes too. Why would you want them to use Purge Signet to remove a single condition/hex when the skill has a 2 second cast time and costs at least 10 energy?

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draikin
Why would you want them to use Purge Signet to remove a single condition/hex when the skill has a 2 second cast time and costs at least 10 energy? Because my artificer Me/Mo hero doesn't need much energy. She even carries a shield and has 89 armor. The only non-signet skill on her bar is [[Mantra of Inscriptions] which lasts the entire length of most battles with some investment in inspiration. With FC, Purge Signet is about 1.5 seconds cast time for her.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...10&postcount=3

By the way, all the hexes and conditions are removed before your energy is deducted so even if you have 0 energy, Purge Signet would still remove all hexes and conditions from your target ally.

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Assassin's Promise is only useful if you're in a group that lacks damage. Otherwise you'll kill the target as the hero decides to cast it.

toastgodsupreme

toastgodsupreme

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

United States

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
If your health is already low from the degen, I suppose the hero is trying to prevent a death from the next attack by casting PS on you.



Not true at all. My Me/Mo hero casts it very often throughout the battle, unless you have set yours to passive. I roll with 3 smite monks sometimes depending on what area i'm in and who i'm with (destroyers fall to them quite fast) and as far as [signet of judgment], they don't use it as often as i think they should. i do keep my 3 hero windows open and it seems like they'll use all other smite skills first before using soj. and even then, i've seen them wanding targets, with all but soj recharging, and they won't use it.

i don't know if this is just the ai in general being wonky, or the ai having some sort of moment where it doesn't like soj, but yeah, it does happen pretty frequently.

luckily i keep keys bound to micro my heroes so i can force them to cast it when need be.

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme
i don't know if this is just the ai in general being wonky, or the ai having some sort of moment where it doesn't like soj, but yeah, it does happen pretty frequently.

luckily i keep keys bound to micro my heroes so i can force them to cast it when need be. I would agree that they dont necessarily cast it as soon as it refreshes because they take turns to use other skills as well. But they do cast it quite often. I am positive that they use it multiple times throughout a battle as I have been observing my hero throughout the entire battle. Maybe it is your skill bar?

Bront

Bront

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2008

Honored Order of Light

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
That's because everything is burning nearly all the time.

Look at essence strike; it's spammed when there's no spirit. Shock Arrow, spammed randomly on foes. Mind Blast; just spammed on recharge. Same with Glowing Gaze, except the condition is nearly always satisfied so it doesn't really matter too much. Glowing Gaze has 2 effects, and the idea is to set it up to were you can use both of them at the same time.

Heroes will prioritize burning targets over non-burning ones with Glowing Gaze, which means they use it fairly well. I've seen my hero wait on casting it till something was burning as well. (Chose another skill down the line instead of GG).

The idea with any skill, is a hero will tend to use them in a priority order, depending on what skills you have and how you order them. If the AI says "Use skill X in X situation", it will be used over a skill further up on your bar. It ultimately weights the situation to figure out what skill it should use (conditions on targets, condition of target, condition of self, skills on bar and recharge status). They don't take equipment, other ally's skills, or some secondary (or even primary) combinations into account.

Learning to manipulate that is good. [[glowing gaze] will work poorly on anyone who's not set up to cause burning, and works better if you're set up to constantly cause burning as a team or an individual. However, it will still cause damage, which means it has some function even outside of E-management, and that's why the AI will use it even if the target isn't burning, if he has no better alternatives at the time (according to the AI).

Expecting anything less is an exercise in stupidity.

GourangaPizza

GourangaPizza

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

R/W

3 words. Mighty was Vorizun.

Syron

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme
I roll with 3 smite monks sometimes depending on what area i'm in and who i'm with (destroyers fall to them quite fast) and as far as [signet of judgment], they don't use it as often as i think they should. Maybe they wait for two or more foes standing close to meet the AoE-Condition?

Turbobusa

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

By the Luxon Scavenger

The Mentalists [THPK]

N/

I have no problem with heroes using Mighty was Vorizun, however I have a problem with mighty was vorizun.

ChillOutDude

ChillOutDude

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2007

USA

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by zling
I'm surprised nobody mentioned [skill]reversal of fortune[/skill] yet...
it's the no. 1 skill heroes completely FAIL at! well 95% of the pve monks fail with that skill too so ..

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

[frenzy] because....

they cant mantain [mending]....

mistokibbles

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

N/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bront
Oh, I've had problems with [Energetic Was Lee Sa]. Heroes don't like to cast it if they have another item, and they drop it immedately after they do cast it for the immediate effect. Only Xandra is bad with Energetic. She'll drop it once her energy reaches max I think. Razah will use it to it's full duration. I've never found out what's so bad about RoF on a hero. Stick it on a necro and it'll be no problem with SR. I had my kahmu run it with a d/n order derv to maintain his energy. Just waiting or you to finish laughing now...Done? Good. Even through long fights, Kahmu's energy stayed near max and we weren't dying. We only had two healers too.

Paul Dawg

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2008

House of Myrthe (HoMe)

W/

One skill that heroes seem to use perfectly is [healer's boon]. It's one of the first things they'll cast and they keep it up indefinitely if they can.

Abedeus

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

Because almost every self-casted skill is maintained. Zealot's Fire, attunements, conjures, Dervish skills that passively boost you (Faithful Intervention for sure, others maintained in battle), so-so mantras, awaken the blood and so on.

Randvek

Randvek

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Rise From the Ashes [phnx]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Dawg
One skill that heroes seem to use perfectly is [healer's boon]. It's one of the first things they'll cast and they keep it up indefinitely if they can. I disagree that they use it perfectly. If it get stripped off and someone else needs healing, they will heal first, then put HB back up. In an emergency that's ok, but when it's not, it's just a waste. They do use it well, though.

blue.rellik

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bront
Not true, [Aegis] and some of the condition removal skills they use just fine. Aegis is nigh-impossible to stuff up so it's a moot point really

System_Crush

System_Crush

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2006

Tripping in Holland

My guild died :`(

N/

I just started running a ranger hero with [[Ebon dust Aura] because I needed a different blinder for my mandragor synergy build.
Not only does it fail at using [[Volley] it doesn't seem to use [[Ebon Dust Aura] at the start of combat/at all.

I removed volley, so that the hero would retain enough energy to actually cast EDA, I think out of 50-60ish fights Magrid used it once by herself, or that might be a time I micro'd it and forgotten I did.

Even though the skill lasts long enough to micro by hand, the way to use it is so simple I think even heroes should be able to figure it out.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

They cant use [echo]+[mending] nooooooooo!!! *crys*

Abedeus

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

*cries at Igor's crys*

I just looked at 1st page, Maverick said that they don't use Ancestor's Rage. Not true. My heroes like to use it on melee/minions near foes and even casters that are attacked. I would say they use it even better than human, unless you want that skill to spike with a hero.

V I JUST SAID IT DAMN IT

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W



Btw, heroes are godly at [ancestor's rage].

Paul Dawg

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2008

House of Myrthe (HoMe)

W/

OK, good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randvek
I disagree that they use it perfectly. If it get stripped off and someone else needs healing, they will heal first, then put HB back up. In an emergency that's ok, but when it's not, it's just a waste. They do use it well, though.

sixofone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

P/

Quote:
Originally Posted by distilledwill
Reported skill usage:

Skills Heroes Won't Use:
[Shadow Walk][Psychic Instability][Spirit Light Weapon]

Summary so far. Any Ive missed?
[signet of midnight] I put this on both Gwen and Zenmai to compare their usage of a Me/A or A/Me signet build, and neither of them ever used it. I had to force them to manually. In combination w/ [signet of shadows], it can do 100+ armor ignoring damage - but they only used the [signet of shadows] by itself, w/o applying the blind first, doing only 1/3 of the potential damage.

An odd thing about this: when I first saw this build, a few weeks ago, I tested it on Zenmai and she used the skills correctly. I was stunned! So, I think ANet must have tinkered with the Hero AI and it has broken the Heroes from using certain skills. Again. (Like [leech signet], which, at one time, they did use to interrupt skills and not just spells.) Maybe they won't use skills that harm them in some way, other than health sacrificing skills?

A Leprechaun

A Leprechaun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

I find they use [spirit light weapon] ok, not great but at least they use it.
Like a lot of maintainable enchantments they don't use [healer's covenant] very well (you have to disable it and cast yourself), it can only target self so I don't see why not.
My heroes don't use [wielder's zeal] very well either, they don't keep it on themselves, this may be because of the 10e cost.
Monks will cast [signet of rejuvenation] on themselves and others who are not casting/attacking, this isn't a big deal, as a warriors they use it on me fine.
This isn't the heroes fault but I now never put [signet of devotion] on there bars, they constantly spam it, even over far better skills simple for the fact (I assume) that it costs no energy.
This is more annoying than bad but they would cast [death nova] over [jagged bones] even if both are charged, in fact they are sometimes completely reluctant to cast Jagged Bones.
They use [epidemic] very well, sometimes a little too much, but still good.

There are probably loads more but I just don't run them on my bars.

~A Leprechaun~

acerbity

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
[frenzy] because....

they cant mantain [mending].... LOLOLOLOLOLOL SO FUNNY WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR IDEAS

Marverick

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

How do heroes treat [Watchful Intervention]?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor


Btw, heroes are godly at [ancestor's rage]. They don't use that unless an ally has more than two or more enemies adjacent to him. Now it would be good if heroes prioritized using ARage on allies with 2+ adjacent enemies, but I still want heroes using it if no ally has 2+ adjacent enemies.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
They don't use that unless an ally has more than two or more enemies adjacent to him. Now it would be good if heroes prioritized using ARage on allies with 2+ adjacent enemies, but I still want heroes using it if no ally has 2+ adjacent enemies. And? How is it bad if they priorotise an ally who has most enemies sitting on him? They use it greatly, never had problems with ARage on heroes.

Bront

Bront

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2008

Honored Order of Light

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
And? How is it bad if they priorotise an ally who has most enemies sitting on him? They use it greatly, never had problems with ARage on heroes. They don't use it well when it's "mop up" time, or against strong bosses if they're the only ones around (they require it to hit 2+ enemies or they don't use it)

slayer5555

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2007

GODS, HK

Rt/N

Hero's fail at usin
[skill]gift of health[/skill]
[skill]healing burst[/skill]

azizul1975

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

GMT+8

The Elite Guard of Tyria (TEGO)

Mo/

from my observation, hero fails at using [putrid flesh]. that would be a good addition to [animate bone minion][death nova][dwayna's sorrow] if hero can use the skill properly.

RavagerOfDreams

RavagerOfDreams

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

somewhere over the rainbow....

A/

[Healers Boon] once it gets stripped they keep healing then put it back on later.

its meh at best

Monkey Slayer

Monkey Slayer

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

I've found that Heroes fail hard at using the entire cookie-cutter HB build. All they use is like 3 skills.

-Lotus-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Slayer
I've found that Heroes fail hard at using the entire cookie-cutter HB build. All they use is like 3 skills. they are to smart to use crap like that. give them a WoH hybrid bar

sixofone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

P/

I would love to know some of the logic the AI uses to prioritize skills.

I gave Ogden a simple Blessed Light build, and he almost always used [blessed light] exclusively to remove conditions even though he also had [mend ailment] for that purpose. He was always running out of energy because he used the elite skill for everything! (People were getting hit by barbed traps, so he was using [blessed light] to remove the first condition, then used it again to remove the second, and rarely used [mend ailment] even if he had energy and it was available.)

Also, just noticed that Jora is not using [savage slash] to interrupt skills, only spells. I had the opportunity to watch her bar (now that I am monking), and she never used this to interrupt anything but a spell.)