Where can I get a copy of the moderator policy for this forum?
All of the moderation I've been seeing has been completely without notice, and I'm wondering if this has always been standard operating procedure - and if so, what the rationale or justification for it is. There isn't even a notice at the bottom of the message that normally accompanies an edit - the post is simply different.
This is frankly unethical, as you are adjusting the content of a post while still attributing the full content of the post to the original poster - when in fact the post has been stealth-edited by a moderator, and may no longer reflect the original poster's views in context.
It also hides the actual amount of deletions and edits that are being made, and protects the moderators themselves from being challenged or otherwise held accountable.
Stealth moderator edits
Burst Cancel
Inde
Burst Cancel, the alternative is to delete your post entirely. If we are editing your post it's usually to, quite frankly, take out the flamebait that will deteriorate a thread or to delete a reference to a previous deleted post. Examples just today of posts I have edited include taking out lines that had nothing to contribute to a discussion such as "If the idiot above me had any sense in his head..." and "Anet always fails so hard and this is a pathetic example of..." So you're right, instead of it "reflecting the original poster's views in context" we have chosen to allow the discussion to continue minus the flaming.
If you have a problem with a post that's edited please feel free to PM me and we can discuss your concerns. And it's not protecting anyone from being accountable. As you have clearly pointed out, the user knows when their post has been edited and I have polite PM's several times a day asking for reasons for actions and I am more then happy to respond and discuss them with the forum user.
If you have a problem with a post that's edited please feel free to PM me and we can discuss your concerns. And it's not protecting anyone from being accountable. As you have clearly pointed out, the user knows when their post has been edited and I have polite PM's several times a day asking for reasons for actions and I am more then happy to respond and discuss them with the forum user.
Age
I would rather see posts get edited than deleted for any mistakes or what not.
Randvek
Burst isn't upset with mod edits, Burst is upset with mod edits that don't admit that they are mod edits. I think she, and perhaps a lot of other players, would just appreciate a little "Edited by such and such mod at such and such time" at the bottom of an edited post.
Burst Cancel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randvek
Burst isn't upset with mod edits, Burst is upset with mod edits that don't admit that they are mod edits. I think she, and perhaps a lot of other players, would just appreciate a little "Edited by such and such mod at such and such time" at the bottom of an edited post.
This is exactly correct.
I'm not asking why posts are being edited - I'm asking why there's no notification of the edit and no mention of who did the editing. Regardless of the content of the post before and after the edit, the simple fact is that the post is no longer the original post - and therefore cannot be fully attributed to the original author. I don't see how this is even a point of debate, frankly.
Inde, what you're describing isn't accountability. Accountability is putting your name to your actions and being able to back them up; anonymity indicates a lack of accountability, by definition. Perhaps I'm missing something about your policy, but I don't see how engaging you promotes accountability when you aren't the one that performed the edit.
I'm not asking why posts are being edited - I'm asking why there's no notification of the edit and no mention of who did the editing. Regardless of the content of the post before and after the edit, the simple fact is that the post is no longer the original post - and therefore cannot be fully attributed to the original author. I don't see how this is even a point of debate, frankly.
Inde, what you're describing isn't accountability. Accountability is putting your name to your actions and being able to back them up; anonymity indicates a lack of accountability, by definition. Perhaps I'm missing something about your policy, but I don't see how engaging you promotes accountability when you aren't the one that performed the edit.
Inde
We'll be sure to adopt a policy of deleting posts entirely if you feel this is such an issue. I understand your point on the "edited by" portion but it causes more problems then not as we now get to respond to 3 and 4 others who PM us asking what we changed in a user's post (just as I get PM's asking why another user was banned) as well as deleting out every conspiracy afterward that we're changing a user's viewpoint. If there was any way to allow that information to be show to only the individual user I would welcome that.
Obviously the "why" of posts being edited is a major factor also, otherwise this conversation wouldn't be happening.You complain of something not being attributed to the original poster when, quite frankly, we are only deleting out insulting and derogatory comments to allow a discussion to continue. We are not adding anything to your conversation, we are taking away insulting comments. Much as if you are abridging a book, it is still the original author's work. We are not deleting out points you have made or changing your discussion, simply taking out something that some users don't seem to have the self-control to stop in regards to flaming or degrading a discussion or the users. And I am the one accountable for what happens on this board, when you are banned it doesn't show you the moderator's name either as we have an escalation system. If you have a question on your post I will always be your best resource for the how/why/etc.
Obviously the "why" of posts being edited is a major factor also, otherwise this conversation wouldn't be happening.You complain of something not being attributed to the original poster when, quite frankly, we are only deleting out insulting and derogatory comments to allow a discussion to continue. We are not adding anything to your conversation, we are taking away insulting comments. Much as if you are abridging a book, it is still the original author's work. We are not deleting out points you have made or changing your discussion, simply taking out something that some users don't seem to have the self-control to stop in regards to flaming or degrading a discussion or the users. And I am the one accountable for what happens on this board, when you are banned it doesn't show you the moderator's name either as we have an escalation system. If you have a question on your post I will always be your best resource for the how/why/etc.
Tarun
I agree that it'd be nice to see that a moderator has edited the post and the reason why included.
Moderators are to address any issues that come up and should be able to get settled via PM.
Moderators are to address any issues that come up and should be able to get settled via PM.
Arkantos
Moderators don't always have the time to edit a post and tell the user why it was edited. We're quite busy, especially in riverside. Of course if this editing without leaving a reason is such a bother, the next step is deleting the post. I do believe editing out some non contributive/rule violating sentances is better than deleting the whole post. But if you guys are getting annoyed, I'll start deleting posts instead.
Savio
Editing doesn't happen as often as deleting does, and it's usually to delete references to deleted posts or minor flaming in an otherwise decent post. We don't do the "changing a poster's viewpoint" thing... it's too much effort for no gain. And the posters can always edit it back. As far as I know, there hasn't been a case where a poster has had his viewpoint changed.
As for individual moderator accountability, there isn't a specific need to message one moderator, any moderator (for that forum) or admin should be able to tell you why a post was deleted or edited. And if a moderator is stepping out of line, what exactly are you going to do? Inde's the only one who can do anything about it, and she already knows what we do anyway - we're not anonymous on this side of the board.
As for individual moderator accountability, there isn't a specific need to message one moderator, any moderator (for that forum) or admin should be able to tell you why a post was deleted or edited. And if a moderator is stepping out of line, what exactly are you going to do? Inde's the only one who can do anything about it, and she already knows what we do anyway - we're not anonymous on this side of the board.
Burst Cancel
Inde, it's interesting that you bring up abridging books, because you'll note that abridged editions indicate that they are, in fact, abridged.
As for deletions, I, personally, would prefer that my posts be deleted rather than edited.
And as for the content of what is being altered, I'd say the standard is pretty variable. For instance, there was a thread recently that was edited to take out references to free speech rights. I've had a handful of posts edited or deleted in the past, and noticed edits of others' posts that I found noteworthy, and in most of those instances I failed to understand the reasoning for the edit/deletion. In the future, I will be sure to take these up with Inde.
If the mods aren't anonymous on "that side of the board" in the sense that there is a match-up between moderators and edited posts, then I agree that accountability exists. Clearly, I'm not privy to exactly how the moderation system works.
As for deletions, I, personally, would prefer that my posts be deleted rather than edited.
And as for the content of what is being altered, I'd say the standard is pretty variable. For instance, there was a thread recently that was edited to take out references to free speech rights. I've had a handful of posts edited or deleted in the past, and noticed edits of others' posts that I found noteworthy, and in most of those instances I failed to understand the reasoning for the edit/deletion. In the future, I will be sure to take these up with Inde.
If the mods aren't anonymous on "that side of the board" in the sense that there is a match-up between moderators and edited posts, then I agree that accountability exists. Clearly, I'm not privy to exactly how the moderation system works.