Monk Hero, More Health or More Energy?
Sir Tidus
I have a monk hero that I plan to use for PvP battles such as Zaishen Elite and Hero Battles. Without any insignias, he has 560 health and 42 energy. Now I can't decide between radiant insignia or survivor insignia to put on him. Everyone says that health is important, but having 8 more energy from radiant insignias will allow for a healing spell that heals a lot more than 40 health gained from the survivor insignias. So which insignia should I use? Thanks in advance.
MisterB
Use Survivor, and include energy management on the monk bar. Increasing max energy is not energy management.
Sir Tidus
Is 40 more base health really worth more than a heal of more than 150 health? I do have energy management, that's not the issue I'm talking about. I just wanna know which one is worth more.
MagmaRed
For PvP, you would do better with Survivor or Blessed (if the build being used uses enchantments like Healer's Boon, Blessed Aura, etc.). More energy is not bad, but it is not the best option. Zaishen has opponents that use armor ignoring damage, so Survivor would be better. If 8 energy makes a difference in the build, there are other problems you need to address.
Quaker
I also lean toward extra health as opposed to extra energy.
It always seems like a waste to me to use Radiants on the head hands & feet anyway. They only add a total of 3 energy (1 each), which should be easy enough to ignore with energy management/regen. Some of my heroes use Survivors on the head, hands, & feet (for +15 health) and Radiants on the chest and legs (for +5 energy) as a compromise.
It always seems like a waste to me to use Radiants on the head hands & feet anyway. They only add a total of 3 energy (1 each), which should be easy enough to ignore with energy management/regen. Some of my heroes use Survivors on the head, hands, & feet (for +15 health) and Radiants on the chest and legs (for +5 energy) as a compromise.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
For PvP, you would do better with Survivor or Blessed (if the build being used uses enchantments like Healer's Boon, Blessed Aura, etc.). More energy is not bad, but it is not the best option. Zaishen has opponents that use armor ignoring damage, so Survivor would be better. If 8 energy makes a difference in the build, there are other problems you need to address.
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
Zaishen has opponents that use armor ignoring damage, so Survivor would be better.
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
If 8 energy makes a difference in the build, there are other problems you need to address.
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I'm not trying to be difficult. I just wanna find the best solution based on facts and not peer-pressure.
the ruloes
Adding a lot of health on your monk heroes is always a good thing. The enemy AI always target the person with least armour and health, saving health on your monk will have him/her constantly monkstomped.
I once made the error of adding a superior rune to Dunkoro, thinking that he could manage with the reduced health. He couldn't, and often he'd find himself with more DP than I'd've wanted.
I once made the error of adding a superior rune to Dunkoro, thinking that he could manage with the reduced health. He couldn't, and often he'd find himself with more DP than I'd've wanted.
Dronte
Survivor, obviously.
As others mentioned, nrg management > high energy
As others mentioned, nrg management > high energy
Age
I will say what the rest are saying survivors and use good weapons,off hands and staff to supplement your energy needs.Forget it heros can only use one use a good staff.
Shaz
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Is 40 more base health really worth more than a heal of more than 150 health? I do have energy management, that's not the issue I'm talking about. I just wanna know which one is worth more.
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MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
I understand what you are trying to say. Thanks for the effort to help, but your argument seems completely one-sided.
More energy has nothing to do with armor ignoring damage. You are not making any comparisons. So how does your argument make any sense? Plus survivor give 40 health, but 8 energy gives 150-200 health. |
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Why? Really? Then can you not also say: "If 40 health makes a difference in the build, there are other problems you need to address."
I'm not trying to be difficult. I just wanna find the best solution based on facts and not peer-pressure. |
Now, using Radiant insignias, you end up with 480+30=510 health. That would mean the 530 spike would kill you.
Granted, you won't always get hit by 5 at once. However, you won't always be at full health either. Having the extra health means you have more time to provide a heal when spiked. Won't matter if there is 8 energy extra allowing for the use of Infuse, Other, etc. if you aren't alive to have it cast on you.
Shai Lee
Survivor > Radiant
The extra energy doesn't matter if you're spiked and dead.
The extra energy doesn't matter if you're spiked and dead.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Shai Lee
Survivor > Radiant
The extra energy doesn't matter if you're spiked and dead. |
Kale Ironfist
The only way you can compare is to make a comparison to when it really matters.
Using Survivor Insignia means you're more likely to be alive when the spike hits, but wanding. Using Radiant means you'll have enough energy to cast ~1 more spell, assuming your energy management let your energy get down that far, but you're also more likely to be dead when that spike hits.
When it comes down to it, you want that player to be alive, but contributing less, than one who contributes nothing because they're dead.
Using Survivor Insignia means you're more likely to be alive when the spike hits, but wanding. Using Radiant means you'll have enough energy to cast ~1 more spell, assuming your energy management let your energy get down that far, but you're also more likely to be dead when that spike hits.
When it comes down to it, you want that player to be alive, but contributing less, than one who contributes nothing because they're dead.
pamelf
If you want an unbiased answer Sir Tydus, instead of shooting down everyone who's trying to give you information why don't you just try out both sets and find out for yourself. If everyone elses opinions are not good enough for you trying them out yourself seems to be the next logical step. It's affordable to buy a set of each...try them both out and that way you can report her and tell US what - in what i'm sure will be your balanced and unbiased expriment - you have managed to come up with...
Trinity Fire Angel
Monster AI ALWAYS targets the character with the lowest health.
so, all survivor and vigor runes to put your hero in +605hp is the best option. Heros don;t heal well when they are the target of attack themselves, they heal better when they are not being attacked!!! With heros you should put in some energy management and or some type of self survival skills.
If you play hero battles you will soon find out that Smoke Powder Defence or Return on your hero monk is better than extra energy. Even Channelling heros use very well.... this helps
Unless you run something like Shield of Regen, then stick Glyph of Lesser Energy with it. Or try using Zealous Benediction on yoru monk. They generally use it very well. Sometimes you might want to take out two suviivor insigs and put on 2 radiants on the chest... try and make sure your hero is above 570Hp. Remember... try and use only minor runes on heros... treat them like they are doing pvp.
In HA i run on my ele 650Hp with 61 energy on my low set and 630hp with 90 energy on my high set.
so, all survivor and vigor runes to put your hero in +605hp is the best option. Heros don;t heal well when they are the target of attack themselves, they heal better when they are not being attacked!!! With heros you should put in some energy management and or some type of self survival skills.
If you play hero battles you will soon find out that Smoke Powder Defence or Return on your hero monk is better than extra energy. Even Channelling heros use very well.... this helps
Unless you run something like Shield of Regen, then stick Glyph of Lesser Energy with it. Or try using Zealous Benediction on yoru monk. They generally use it very well. Sometimes you might want to take out two suviivor insigs and put on 2 radiants on the chest... try and make sure your hero is above 570Hp. Remember... try and use only minor runes on heros... treat them like they are doing pvp.
In HA i run on my ele 650Hp with 61 energy on my low set and 630hp with 90 energy on my high set.
Tatile
Knew it was around here somewhere, this thread contains a fairly lengthy arguement involving Radient, Survivor and Armour-based insignias (etc.). It may help, however there is a bit of name-calling dotted about.
Personally I go with an even split, as I can easily get energy from foci. However I'm now leaning more towards health (yay, I'm getting better at sucking less :3), as it means I get targeted less by monsters (this is on my monks, and applies to heroes).
Personally I go with an even split, as I can easily get energy from foci. However I'm now leaning more towards health (yay, I'm getting better at sucking less :3), as it means I get targeted less by monsters (this is on my monks, and applies to heroes).
poasiods
Despite the risk of receiving another rude retort from the OP, I'll add my 2 cents.
In the opening post, you said having 8 more energy will allow your monk to cast spells which will heal for more than 40 health gained from Survivor Insignia.
First of all, that 8 more energy should not be too big of an issue if you're able to put at least some kind of energy management onto your monk. If your current monk set up has no energy management skills, +8 energy would keep your monk casting little bit longer. However, once you acquire adequate energy management on your monk's skill bar, the rate at which your monk runs out of mana eventually should not differ by too much.
The thing behind +40 health is that it will give your monk a better chance of survival. The fact that +40 health could determine whether your monk is spamming healing spells on himself or lying on the ground with a dagger sticking out of his nose makes it that much more valuable. Benefits of having more health or armor outweights that of energy by far, as the latter can be compensated for by adequate skill managements.
Hope that wasn't too biased for you. If you were hoping for step-by-step analysis of pro's and con's of each, that'd be running out the patience of most posters. Do please try and be nicer to people who take time to reply to your questions that you wanted answered.
In the opening post, you said having 8 more energy will allow your monk to cast spells which will heal for more than 40 health gained from Survivor Insignia.
First of all, that 8 more energy should not be too big of an issue if you're able to put at least some kind of energy management onto your monk. If your current monk set up has no energy management skills, +8 energy would keep your monk casting little bit longer. However, once you acquire adequate energy management on your monk's skill bar, the rate at which your monk runs out of mana eventually should not differ by too much.
The thing behind +40 health is that it will give your monk a better chance of survival. The fact that +40 health could determine whether your monk is spamming healing spells on himself or lying on the ground with a dagger sticking out of his nose makes it that much more valuable. Benefits of having more health or armor outweights that of energy by far, as the latter can be compensated for by adequate skill managements.
Hope that wasn't too biased for you. If you were hoping for step-by-step analysis of pro's and con's of each, that'd be running out the patience of most posters. Do please try and be nicer to people who take time to reply to your questions that you wanted answered.
Stormlord Alex
More health. AI gets silly when it's under fire, more health reduces the chance that the enemy AI will target the monk.
You don't want your healers running round like a headless chicken when they should... you know... be healing.
You don't want your healers running round like a headless chicken when they should... you know... be healing.
Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Sigh... another biased one-way argument. Having 40 less health doesn't guarantee that you'll die from a spike; having 40 more health doesn't guarantee that you'll survive a spike. And even when you survive a spike, it doesn't guarantee that you'll live very long afterwards. Thanks for the effort anyways. Thanks to everyone for helping.
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Malice Black
Monks should have the highest health so they get targeted last. Warriors should have the lowest health so they get targeted first. As long as you don't over pull you'll breeze the game.
Pyro maniac
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Sigh... another biased one-way argument. Having 40 less health doesn't guarantee that you'll die from a spike; having 40 more health doesn't guarantee that you'll survive a spike. And even when you survive a spike, it doesn't guarantee that you'll live very long afterwards. Thanks for the effort anyways. Thanks to everyone for helping.
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Kattar
Hehe, love how people are on the internets.
Malice correct about AI targeting. I kept wondering why Talkora was getting blasted. Then I uped her health, and they magically stopped trying to spike her!
Lol. Health then e-management, as has been suggested.
Malice correct about AI targeting. I kept wondering why Talkora was getting blasted. Then I uped her health, and they magically stopped trying to spike her!
Lol. Health then e-management, as has been suggested.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by poasiods
Despite the risk of receiving another rude retort from the OP, I'll add my 2 cents.
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Originally Posted by poasiods
In the opening post, you said having 8 more energy will allow your monk to cast spells which will heal for more than 40 health gained from Survivor Insignia.
First of all, that 8 more energy should not be too big of an issue if you're able to put at least some kind of energy management onto your monk. If your current monk set up has no energy management skills, +8 energy would keep your monk casting little bit longer. However, once you acquire adequate energy management on your monk's skill bar, the rate at which your monk runs out of mana eventually should not differ by too much. The thing behind +40 health is that it will give your monk a better chance of survival. The fact that +40 health could determine whether your monk is spamming healing spells on himself or lying on the ground with a dagger sticking out of his nose makes it that much more valuable. Benefits of having more health or armor outweights that of energy by far, as the latter can be compensated for by adequate skill managements. |
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel
Monster AI ALWAYS targets the character with the lowest health.
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MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel
Monster AI ALWAYS targets the character with the lowest health.
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MisterB
Every poster in this thread has unanimously made the same recommendation, yet you call everyone's recommendation "one-sided." Tell me, who is unwilling to consider another option again? Why ask a question when it seems you have already made up your mind on the matter?
By the way, I have experience with both setups on my monk heroes, both all radiant, and all survivor, as well as a mix of the two. When the monk hero has all survivor, and higher health than the rest of the party, they are targeted less often. Do with that information what you will.
By the way, I have experience with both setups on my monk heroes, both all radiant, and all survivor, as well as a mix of the two. When the monk hero has all survivor, and higher health than the rest of the party, they are targeted less often. Do with that information what you will.
Trinity Fire Angel
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
Usually, not always. Put a level 20 character with 600 health next to a level 20 character with 485 health. Now, give that 600 health character AL15 armor, and the 485 character 80+20 armor. The monsters may decide the lower armored character will die easier. There is no 100% positive way to determine who the monsters will attack. However, armor level and health are major factors in which target they choose.
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In nearly all cases, i got went thru factions with just heros and henchies to get to my survivor level and not once did i get spiked out with my low armour. I run my hero monks at 610hp, i had myself at 620hp and my R/P has 650Hp. Most of the time, the AI goes for the henchmen... obviously they have the least HP.
what i know is that since i learned the golden rule in pvp, minor runes only + survivor insigs. i have played 200% better. it;s the difference between 530 hp and 630hp if you look at vigor and survivor insigs in some cases
Mithie
*eburn*
WHOOPS THERE GOES YOUR 8 ENERGY
WHOOPS THERE GOES YOUR 8 ENERGY
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by Mithie
*eburn*
WHOOPS THERE GOES YOUR 8 ENERGY |
"But without that 8 energy, I'd then be at an even greater disadvantage when needing to use a spell to heal."
Energy Burn will remove the energy regardless of the max you have. Lowering your total by 8 won't protect against Energy Burn. This is why people have high/low weapon sets, not armor sets. You don't change armor when facing energy denial, you change weapons.
Dark Kal
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
I'm not trying to be difficult. I just wanna find the best solution based on facts and not peer-pressure.
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I don't know for PvP, but in PvE the enemy AI attacks the hero with the lowest health (assuming the other players have equal or higher armor). Assuming the PvP AI does the same it would be advantages to have your monk have the highest health of your heroes. Also survivor insignias will give you the best chance for your hero to survive spikes.
On the other hand radiant insignias give your monk hero more energy hence it will be able to cast spells for a longer time. Hero monks, even with energy management skills, are very poor at energy management hence it's advantages to give them the most amount of energy that you can. Also a 5 energy skill can heal for much more than 40 health and still leave you with 3 extra energy, the downside is spells take time to cast.
Both are good insignias IMO, but I prefer Radiant insiginias because I don't feel the additional 40 health is worth it, I prefer the additional 8 energy. Especially since heroes are so poor at energy management in the first place.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Dark Kal
GWG is not the best place for argumenting or debating, so I've learned. The majority of GWG posters are too narrow-minded to grasp new ideas. Most will just say whatever is the most popular idea of the time and will stick with it that's human nature I suppose. Some people are sheep and some are wolves.
I don't know for PvP, but in PvE the enemy AI attacks the hero with the lowest health (assuming the other players have equal or higher armor). Assuming the PvP AI does the same it would be advantages to have your monk have the highest health of your heroes. Also survivor insignias will give you the best chance for your hero to survive spikes. On the other hand radiant insignias give your monk hero more energy hence it will be able to cast spells for a longer time. Hero monks, even with energy management skills, are very poor at energy management hence it's advantages to give them the most amount of energy that you can. Also a 5 energy skill can heal for much more than 40 health and still leave you with 3 extra energy, the downside is spells take time to cast. Both are good insignias IMO, but I prefer Radiant insiginias because I don't feel the additional 40 health is worth it, I prefer the additional 8 energy. Especially since heroes are so poor at energy management in the first place. |
Food
Sir Tidus, you're stuck in the more energy, more heals, more win mindset. Get out of it. Monks should have decent energy management, otherwise, they shouldn't be monking. If you have decent energy management, you aren't dependant on your bigger energy to keep your teammates alive. Yeah, 8 energy can help you fire off that extra WoH, but you're sacrificing 40 health, and that 40 health helps tremendously with keeping you alive. Remember, dead monks don't heal. I would rather be in my high energy set and squeezing out the last of my energy than dead on the groud, not able to do anything.
Dante the Warlord
Well if you think about it in terms of time would you rather spend time healing yourself when you get hurt, rather then using that time to heal your allies? I think Health is more important but there is a limit...
GaaaaaH
people seem to be forgetting in the whole "higher energy is not e-management' debate that this is for a HERO, and thus incompetent.
jhu
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Originally Posted by GaaaaaH
people seem to be forgetting in the whole "higher energy is not e-management' debate that this is for a HERO, and thus incompetent.
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Amadei
How often is your hero going to be at max energy anyway? Likely only at the start of the fight; in prolonged fights, he's going to hover fairly low (he's a hero, he'll spam the hell out of his bar -.-), so that extra 8 energy is not going to do you any good, I think. I would go with the extra health.
MagmaRed
Heroes do not manage energy as well as a human, but they do use skills provided to manage their energy. They will still spam spells, but they will use the skills provided to reduce energy cost or regain energy when they can. That is why Power Drain, Leech Signet, etc. are given to Monk heroes. Their AI allows them to interrupt a spell to steal energy. This helps them with energy, but it also helps the team deal with potential damage sources. Glyph of Lesser Energy is also used fairly well by heroes. They may not use it on the expensive spells only, but they will use it, and it will save them some energy. Protective Spirit will still get used as a heal at times, which does not do well for their energy management, but it doesn't mean they can't manage energy. It just isn't done as well as a human.