Since the GW site says they will be trying out pve and pvp versions of the same skills, maybe Soul Reaping could be reverted back to pre-nerf setting. I understand that it made PvP overpowered with all the spiirit fields etc, but in PvE it has made necromancer much harder to play. While I can still play mine, and I know others have adapted, I would like to see a return to the original SR.
thoughts/ideas
signed/unsigned
please no flames, act like grown ups if you can.
~the rat~
*and yes I know SR is not a skill its an attribute, but I would think it wouldnt be that hard to try out.
Soul Reaping PvE
legion_rat
miskav
Skills changing, not attributes, so I doubt seeing this happen =/
/signed anyway, would be fun.
/signed anyway, would be fun.
Tyla
Signed only if we get infinite minions.
If we get even more stupid emanagement, we deserve epic minions.
Screw BotM, GOGO FEAST FOR THE DEAD!!!!
And I'd like to mention, it didn't make Necromancer harder, it made it less mindless.
If we get even more stupid emanagement, we deserve epic minions.
Screw BotM, GOGO FEAST FOR THE DEAD!!!!
And I'd like to mention, it didn't make Necromancer harder, it made it less mindless.
jiggles
thanks to [signet of lost souls] and good killing skills i can play my necro just as i could before the nerf
but it would make things soooo much funner, /signed
but it would make things soooo much funner, /signed
Earth
They're changing skills, not attributes.
And anyway, making 2 different attributes for both PvE and PvP is stupid.
And anyway, making 2 different attributes for both PvE and PvP is stupid.
legion_rat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Earth
They're changing skills, not attributes.
And anyway, making 2 different attributes for both PvE and PvP is stupid. |
~the rat~
shoyon456
Why doesnt anet just make 2 games, GW pvp and GW pve? lol
At any rate, since they're doing skills you have a point. Although we'll most likely see more of this split in GW2 (duh)
At any rate, since they're doing skills you have a point. Although we'll most likely see more of this split in GW2 (duh)
serod
/Signed
Together with infinite minions = necro uber ownage.
Together with infinite minions = necro uber ownage.
miskav
I must admit, having 40 minnions running around was epic fun =)
Chthon
/signed
1. Removing the timer isn't about making SR more powerful, it IS about fixing a whole bunch of problems caused by the timer's extremely poor design.
2. Removing the timer absolutely has to be done, but it doesn't have to be the only change to SR in PvE. The timer has to be removed for all the reasons I listed above, but independent changes to reduce the overall power of SR could be done as well.
For instance, I could entirely support Carinae's plan of (1) remove the timer, and (2) remove SR from minions, and (3) drastically reduce the cost of all the minion skills. This would remove the "energy but no corpse" scenario, and it would remove the "one minion bomber powering an entire team of necros" gimmick that we see in Sabway.
3. Dividing PvE and PvP SR would also be extremely good for PvP. SR is horrifically weak in PvP. The only thing it ever had going for it was a couple of gimmicks that have been totally eliminated by the nerf to Jagged Bones and the nerf to SR triggering on spirits. Splitting SR allows for SR to be totally reworked from the ground up to make something useful in PvP without having to worry about messing up PvE.
1. Removing the timer isn't about making SR more powerful, it IS about fixing a whole bunch of problems caused by the timer's extremely poor design.
- It's clunky, ugly, and unintuitive.
- It punishes you for playing well. The better you do at eliminating mobs quickly, the worse it cuts into your energy gains, and the worse shape it leaves you in for the next mob.
- It randomizes something that should be consistent. With 10 SR, from a 10-monster mob, you can gain as much as 100 energy, or as little as 3 (or even 0 if you have minions in tow). That's exceedingly random. This randomness...
- (1) Is extremely frustrating.
- (2) Makes it completely impossible to play at the level of skill where you plan for and "manage" your available energy. Supporters of the timer often say that "under the old SR, the answer to 'should I cast this spell now?' was always 'yes, because I don't have to worry about energy'"; but what they don't see is that, with the timer, the answer is "yes, because I have no way to predict whether I have to worry about energy or not, and I can't afford to 'live in fear' and never cast anything." In fact, the timer is slightly WORSE for encouraging energy "management" than unbounded soul reaping. If you fully understood and appreciated the old soul reaping, you could spend down all of your energy gains -- you could even tally up each mob before you engaged it, figure out how much energy you were going to gain, and plan out how you were going to use every point of energy before the battle even began. Few players actually played at that skill level, but it was at least possible. The random behavior under the timered soul reaping is impossible to predict, so "managing" your energy in that way is strictly impossible.
- It conflicts with the intended synergy between Soul Reaping and corpse-exploitation skills. The obvious design intent behind soul reaping originally was to provide immediate energy for casting corpse-exploitation skills at the same time the corpse became available. The timer breaks this. Sometimes you get energy along with a corpse, and sometimes you don't. That's a problem.
(Additionally, some folks like Carinae would say that getting energy when there isn't a corpse is also a problem that needs fixed.) - It conflicts with the minion cap mechanic. Originally, the high prices on minion spells were justified because some of the energy wasn't actually spent, but rather "stored" in the minion and recovered through SR when it died. The minion cap didn't break this; it might kill a minion early, but you still got your energy back out of that minion. The timer breaks it. The cap may force a minion to die while the timer is denying energy, so the energy "stored" in that minion is lost for good. Moreover, this is somewhat likely to happen because the timer has certainly already triggered at least once by the death that provided the body that turned into the 11th minion.
This problem is worst in the case of shambling horrors that can go into a chain reaction against the minion cap, triggering the timer and continuing to kill off several more minions without returning energy.
2. Removing the timer absolutely has to be done, but it doesn't have to be the only change to SR in PvE. The timer has to be removed for all the reasons I listed above, but independent changes to reduce the overall power of SR could be done as well.
For instance, I could entirely support Carinae's plan of (1) remove the timer, and (2) remove SR from minions, and (3) drastically reduce the cost of all the minion skills. This would remove the "energy but no corpse" scenario, and it would remove the "one minion bomber powering an entire team of necros" gimmick that we see in Sabway.
3. Dividing PvE and PvP SR would also be extremely good for PvP. SR is horrifically weak in PvP. The only thing it ever had going for it was a couple of gimmicks that have been totally eliminated by the nerf to Jagged Bones and the nerf to SR triggering on spirits. Splitting SR allows for SR to be totally reworked from the ground up to make something useful in PvP without having to worry about messing up PvE.
Earth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by legion_rat
if you read the post I mentioned that I knew it was skills only. Wasting the the time on skills is just as stupid and time comsuming. This is the suggestion forum, this is my suggestion. If you do not have an argument/debate for or against it other than "Its stupid" please dont bother to post.
~the rat~ |
SR is fine. I honestly don't get why people were crying about Ursan being overpowered if you're just going to make other things overpowered.
Longasc
I agree that soul reaping has become rather unintuitive.
Still, my Necro has still supreme energy management and not really problems with energy gain.
@Chthon: No idea what Carinae suggested, but so far they only wanted to change a FEW skills.
If we start this: SR PvE version, minions PvE version, could we also make Blood Magic PvE versions, as vampiric gaze sucks so much in PvE?
Where will this end, it goes very much towards a total separation. In this case they should really do this, complete separation of the skills.
True PvP and PvE skills.
I do not like how Soul Reaping works at the moment, but if SR really needs a PvE change/buff, then I could easily name a ton of skills that could use some PvE-skill love. For example Watch Yourself, Incoming, ...
I am waiting for next Thursday, I again see good intentions, but it also seems to be more of a compromise than an ideal solution. Maybe this is the beginning of a total PvE/PvP separation for GW2, who knows. And then people can discuss if this would be really desirable.
Still, my Necro has still supreme energy management and not really problems with energy gain.
@Chthon: No idea what Carinae suggested, but so far they only wanted to change a FEW skills.
If we start this: SR PvE version, minions PvE version, could we also make Blood Magic PvE versions, as vampiric gaze sucks so much in PvE?
Where will this end, it goes very much towards a total separation. In this case they should really do this, complete separation of the skills.
True PvP and PvE skills.
I do not like how Soul Reaping works at the moment, but if SR really needs a PvE change/buff, then I could easily name a ton of skills that could use some PvE-skill love. For example Watch Yourself, Incoming, ...
I am waiting for next Thursday, I again see good intentions, but it also seems to be more of a compromise than an ideal solution. Maybe this is the beginning of a total PvE/PvP separation for GW2, who knows. And then people can discuss if this would be really desirable.
Div
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Earth
Look, honestly. Is it really that hard to understand that creating 2 different attributes for PvE and PvP is stupid?
|
legion_rat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
I assume you don't know the OP very well. He's on par with solange and co. A little better though.
|
I know it will not be changed, its an idea/suggestion. I like SR the old way it played. I dont like the fact that if I kill 4 enemies I dont get the full amount of energy from it. While the current way of SR does work, I prefered the original format. That is why I suggested it.
to the person who thinks that UB and SR compare. I dont give a damn. I dont use Ursan, but it has allowed alot of classes, such as assassin go place that the elitist assholes whould not usualy choose them. Even with ursan there is the "your a sin? sorry no" crap. I have seen it.
To wrap up my rant, this was a suggestion. I preferred SR the old way. I dont care about PvP. It pisses me off how many skills and other aspects of the game were changed because people are to stupid to learn to counter PvP builds. "oh damn its a touch ranger!" which now most people laugh at. "Nerf the R/D!!!!" mleh shut up and learn to play. Anets trying to seperate the skills is a great idea. One I, and many others, have suggested for 2 years or more.
~the rat~
Bront
/notsigned
SR is the most powerful e-management attribute as it is in PvE, it doesn't need a buff.
SR is the most powerful e-management attribute as it is in PvE, it doesn't need a buff.
Nevin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Earth
Look, honestly. Is it really that hard to understand that creating 2 different attributes for PvE and PvP is stupid? This will only make the gap between PvE and PvP even larger, and when SR gets changed, EVERYONE wants their favorite class to have a silly overpowered primary attribute.
SR is fine. I honestly don't get why people were crying about Ursan being overpowered if you're just going to make other things overpowered. |
doudou_steve
/signed to be reverted at his normal status
/notsigned for unlimited minions
/notsigned for unlimited minions
FlamingMetroid
/signed
also wars need to ignore armor
rangers need to not use any energy at all
monks need a 500 pt Divine Favor bonus
elementalists need to have 1000en
mesmers' spells should cast in the past
assassins should gain 50 en on hit
ritualists should make weapons spells last forever and be stackable
dervishes should never die
paragons should be able to keep +100 armor on everybody all the time, O WAIT
[/END SARCASM]
don't make more things overpowered >_>
also wars need to ignore armor
rangers need to not use any energy at all
monks need a 500 pt Divine Favor bonus
elementalists need to have 1000en
mesmers' spells should cast in the past
assassins should gain 50 en on hit
ritualists should make weapons spells last forever and be stackable
dervishes should never die
paragons should be able to keep +100 armor on everybody all the time, O WAIT
[/END SARCASM]
don't make more things overpowered >_>
snaek
they need to at least change it so that
any energy u do not get from soul reaping (cuz ur already at max energy)
will not count towards the cap
so instead of, "You may only gain Energy in this way 3 times every 15 seconds."
it will be, "You may only gain Energy equivelent to 3 times your Soul Reaping attribute every 15 seconds."
but maybe scale it down to 2.5x or 2x
any energy u do not get from soul reaping (cuz ur already at max energy)
will not count towards the cap
so instead of, "You may only gain Energy in this way 3 times every 15 seconds."
it will be, "You may only gain Energy equivelent to 3 times your Soul Reaping attribute every 15 seconds."
but maybe scale it down to 2.5x or 2x
I Can Cure Cancer
/signed, I'm a PvE'r I don't care about balance I just love to steamroll things.
Yuhe Ji
/notsigned
Soul Reaping is already infinite energy anyways. I just don't see the point in getting rid of the timer.
Soul Reaping is already infinite energy anyways. I just don't see the point in getting rid of the timer.
cgruber
gogo n/e nukers
/notsigned
/notsigned
mystical nessAL
Quote:
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Originally Posted by legion_rat
if you read the post I mentioned that I knew it was skills only. Wasting the the time on skills is just as stupid and time comsuming. This is the suggestion forum, this is my suggestion. If you do not have an argument/debate for or against it other than "Its stupid" please dont bother to post.
~the rat~ |
Lhim
/not signed
SR in its current form is still the best and most powerful primary attribute in the game.
SR in its current form is still the best and most powerful primary attribute in the game.
BlackSephir
That's stupid, if you're playing necro and you're running out of energy, you're doing it wrong.
There's a god damn reason why Sabway steamrolls through areas AND consists of 3 necros.
Oh, and /notsigned.
There's a god damn reason why Sabway steamrolls through areas AND consists of 3 necros.
Oh, and /notsigned.
Aldric
/Not Signed
Both because I think having different attributes in pve/pvp would be a monumental mistake. Anet wants people to PVE and then move into PVP aswell and making skills and gaming mechanisms different between the 2 playstyles would just confuse people and put them off.
I don't really like the timer but thats purely on point of principal more than anything else. I'd support removing it only if the energy gain from deaths was diluted compared to its current level but as it stands SR is still about as powerful a primary as is possible and you have to really work at it to have no energy as a Necro.
Bleh to mass minion armies aswell , 10 is fine for me on the odd occasion when I ever run a MM. I could foresee every pug I ever do would have the daftest MM on the planet with 50 minions saccing himself to death every 2 minutes then raging on the nubcake monks
Both because I think having different attributes in pve/pvp would be a monumental mistake. Anet wants people to PVE and then move into PVP aswell and making skills and gaming mechanisms different between the 2 playstyles would just confuse people and put them off.
I don't really like the timer but thats purely on point of principal more than anything else. I'd support removing it only if the energy gain from deaths was diluted compared to its current level but as it stands SR is still about as powerful a primary as is possible and you have to really work at it to have no energy as a Necro.
Bleh to mass minion armies aswell , 10 is fine for me on the odd occasion when I ever run a MM. I could foresee every pug I ever do would have the daftest MM on the planet with 50 minions saccing himself to death every 2 minutes then raging on the nubcake monks
legion_rat
the reason I asked for this was, while watching my MM hero, if we fight a small group and kill it quick he ends up short on energy. I usually run blood on mine own necro so its not a problem (usually) But I have noticed that when I MM or when my hero does, if we wipe them out fast theres a shortage of energy.
as to the person who mentioned running 3 necros. I have done that, its fun, to a point. But I like to use most of my heros so sticking to the same three ges boring.
I did not mean to waste time, and as far as seperation of PvE/PvP, they could remove pvp I wouldnt miss it. But I also know that some people do not pve at all.
~the rat~
as to the person who mentioned running 3 necros. I have done that, its fun, to a point. But I like to use most of my heros so sticking to the same three ges boring.
I did not mean to waste time, and as far as seperation of PvE/PvP, they could remove pvp I wouldnt miss it. But I also know that some people do not pve at all.
~the rat~
Bront
Quote:
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Originally Posted by legion_rat
the reason I asked for this was, while watching my MM hero, if we fight a small group and kill it quick he ends up short on energy.
|
The idea of the game is for you to learn to deal with hardships, not complain about not having infinite energy.
Necromancer energy is inconsistant but fine, and by far the best energy management skill/ability in PvE (Energy Storage is nice, but max energy <> Energy Management, and an elementalist is still required to take an energy management skill)
Take Signet of Lost Souls if you need more energy (Which is oddly enough, a Soul Reaping skill)
Not trying to be rude (I realise it sounds like it), but it's a game, it's supposed to be some kind of challenge, and "I can't cast every spell I want all the time" is hardly a reason to change the mechanics of the game.
Whisper Evenstar
necro e mgmnt still pwns after the chg.... its fine, leave it alone
/notsigned
/notsigned
romeus petrus
/Signed.
Necros had lost a major part of their primary attribute to a nerf that had nothing but PvP in mind.
Necros had lost a major part of their primary attribute to a nerf that had nothing but PvP in mind.
street peddler
the attribute is never going to be reverted get over it.
BlackSephir
Quote:
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
/Signed.
Necros had lost a major part of their primary attribute to a nerf that had nothing but PvP in mind. |
BAD BAD BAD PVP.
Abedeus
/lolwtf
Soul Reaping is the best primary attribute in the game. Heck, THE best. I would die for having Soul Reaping on my Mesmer instead of ANY other attribute.
Soul Reaping is the best primary attribute in the game. Heck, THE best. I would die for having Soul Reaping on my Mesmer instead of ANY other attribute.