I basically need some confirmation and some advice on the price.
I thought I either had to go for:
Ceremonial Daggers or Talons of the Forgotten
Is that correct and also, howmuch should I pay for them?
Which weapon for a PvE Moebius Sin build?
NukeItAll
Ghostcell
you should be able to get them for about 8k or so quite easily.
GWEXTREEMFAN
6k each
but i would go for a 15^enchanted more than a 15^50
but your choice there
but i would go for a 15^enchanted more than a 15^50
but your choice there
NukeItAll
is there a green weapon that has those mods? and if so, which one?
Bobby2
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darkroot%27s_Daggers
Both have their merits.
15^enchant - permanent because of [skill]critical agility[/skill], bar the occasional strip.
15^50 - as good as permanent, because once your health drops below 50% it means your Monk is in trouble/not paying attention and you should GTFO anyway. Also, not f-ed on the occasional enchant strip.
Both have their merits.
15^enchant - permanent because of [skill]critical agility[/skill], bar the occasional strip.
15^50 - as good as permanent, because once your health drops below 50% it means your Monk is in trouble/not paying attention and you should GTFO anyway. Also, not f-ed on the occasional enchant strip.
Zahr Dalsk
Damage inscriptions only affect base weapon damage - for daggers, you gain at most 1-2 damage per hit. It's useless. (This is the same reason Flurry is great for PvP assassins - it only affects base damage and so only drops DPH by 1-2; resulting in overall DPS being much higher.)
Take a +5e I Have The Power inscription (or equivalent green or one of those trashy non-inscribable items); it's much more useful.
Take a +5e I Have The Power inscription (or equivalent green or one of those trashy non-inscribable items); it's much more useful.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Damage inscriptions only affect base weapon damage - for daggers, you gain at most 1-2 damage per hit. It's useless.
Take a +5e I Have The Power inscription (or equivalent green or one of those trashy non-inscribable items); it's much more useful. +5e is only doing something for you if you actually bottom out your energy; to my mind its more useless than 15^50 - I'll take the free damage, I nary need the energy on a DB/MS 'sin.
And if I do need the energy, hit F2 to switch to +5e daggers - there's no sense in passing up free extra damage.
Take a +5e I Have The Power inscription (or equivalent green or one of those trashy non-inscribable items); it's much more useful. +5e is only doing something for you if you actually bottom out your energy; to my mind its more useless than 15^50 - I'll take the free damage, I nary need the energy on a DB/MS 'sin.
And if I do need the energy, hit F2 to switch to +5e daggers - there's no sense in passing up free extra damage.
IrishCB
15^50 is more conditional than a 15^enchanted, its easier to cast an enchantment than to get a heal spike imo. If you are having E problems, which you really shouldn't playing a sin; just pick up a Zealous set and switch back and forth, In a chain zealouls + e gain from crits you wont have any E problems.
Utaku
What Alex said.
Can't get why people are still arguing against +15% damage when +5max energy is just a weapon switch away.
Oh and customize your daggers too, everything adds up...
Can't get why people are still arguing against +15% damage when +5max energy is just a weapon switch away.
Oh and customize your daggers too, everything adds up...
Chthon
Prefix: Keep vamp and zealous on switch. Use vamp normally, switch the zealous when your energy starts to head south and for traveling between mobs.
Inscription: 15^50 in both pairs. Beats 15^ench because stripping is (or at least should be) far more common than a monk who will leave you under 50% for more than a second or two, and you should probably be kiting instead of attacking if that happens. Beats +5e because your chain is not expensive enough to drain your whole pool at once.
Suffix: +5AL is better than +30hp for most PvE purposes, especially on sins who are notoriously short on armor. If you really want to get fancy, you can bring a second pair with +30hp for severe death penalty situations and the few monster sets that largely ignore armor. 20% ench is appealing given the number of enchantments on some M/B builds, but I think you'll find you can maintain them OK without it.
Inscription: 15^50 in both pairs. Beats 15^ench because stripping is (or at least should be) far more common than a monk who will leave you under 50% for more than a second or two, and you should probably be kiting instead of attacking if that happens. Beats +5e because your chain is not expensive enough to drain your whole pool at once.
Suffix: +5AL is better than +30hp for most PvE purposes, especially on sins who are notoriously short on armor. If you really want to get fancy, you can bring a second pair with +30hp for severe death penalty situations and the few monster sets that largely ignore armor. 20% ench is appealing given the number of enchantments on some M/B builds, but I think you'll find you can maintain them OK without it.
Zahr Dalsk
5 energy is more useful than 1-2 damage per hit, in my opinion.
Just like minor runes are better than superiors - 'tis about the same principle.
Just like minor runes are better than superiors - 'tis about the same principle.
moriz
+5energy is useless when the combo already fits without it. in that case, you'll be better served with more damage, even if that damage is 1-2.
Tyla
15^50.
Zealous.
Fortitude.
No energy problems at all unless your build is fugly.
+5E set for DP.
Zealous.
Fortitude.
No energy problems at all unless your build is fugly.
+5E set for DP.
IrishCB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Just like minor runes are better than superiors - 'tis about the same principle.
Customized 20% of max 17dmg = 3.4
15^50+Custom = 5.95dmg/dagger strike
Double strike = 2%/rank Dagger Mastery
Depending on build (Example 13+1+1) 15x2=30% to Double Strike
4 Chain combo 5.95+5.95+5.95+(5.95x2)= 29.75 extra dmg/chain this does not include if you double strike; that is variable so I did not add it for raw output.
Add Vamp thats +5x5=25 more dmg/chain for a total of an extra 54.75dmg/chain, imo thats way better than an extra 5e. To each their own
Bobby2
- You can't double strike on attack skills (except duals).
- Every weapon is assumed to be customized, so it's irrelevant to the damage comparison.
- You base your numbers solely upon max dagger damage = wrong.
- Vampiric mods are also irrelevant.
The (average!) damage gained from the 15^X mod (assuming its req is met throughout an entire chain) would amount to...
Average base dagger damage: ( (7+17)/2= ) 12
Average damage gained per hit: ( 12*0.15= ) 1.8
Do note that this does not take critical hits into account.
Your example chain is a bit odd, if not impossible (3 attack skills before the first Dual?), so I'm going to use a standard instagib Offhand-Dual-Offhand-Dual build instead.
Of course, there's a large chance to critical. Going by these stats:
12+1+1 Dagger Mastery (19.6% base chance to crit)
12+1 Critical Strikes (13% additional chance to crit)
so roughly 1 in 3 attacks would crit. As an instagib chain hits 6 times, this would result in 4 'average' hits and 2 criticals:
( (1.8*4)+(2.55*2)= ) 12.3 extra damage from the 15^X mod alone.
There's a factor I haven't taken into account: if a Dual crits, it always seems to affect both hits. I haven't found any definitive info on this, just my personal experience. I'm no calc head, but I like to have all the relevant info, so if any one else feels the need to crunch some numbers they are free to do so
- Every weapon is assumed to be customized, so it's irrelevant to the damage comparison.
- You base your numbers solely upon max dagger damage = wrong.
- Vampiric mods are also irrelevant.
The (average!) damage gained from the 15^X mod (assuming its req is met throughout an entire chain) would amount to...
Average base dagger damage: ( (7+17)/2= ) 12
Average damage gained per hit: ( 12*0.15= ) 1.8
Do note that this does not take critical hits into account.
Your example chain is a bit odd, if not impossible (3 attack skills before the first Dual?), so I'm going to use a standard instagib Offhand-Dual-Offhand-Dual build instead.
Of course, there's a large chance to critical. Going by these stats:
12+1+1 Dagger Mastery (19.6% base chance to crit)
12+1 Critical Strikes (13% additional chance to crit)
so roughly 1 in 3 attacks would crit. As an instagib chain hits 6 times, this would result in 4 'average' hits and 2 criticals:
( (1.8*4)+(2.55*2)= ) 12.3 extra damage from the 15^X mod alone.
There's a factor I haven't taken into account: if a Dual crits, it always seems to affect both hits. I haven't found any definitive info on this, just my personal experience. I'm no calc head, but I like to have all the relevant info, so if any one else feels the need to crunch some numbers they are free to do so
Kaleban
+5E is a good inscrip to use on Ebon daggers for bypassing warrior bonus armor. Since you don't get the benefit of zealous, the extra energy helps getting one more nasty attack skill off, or in helping setup your beginning enchants/hexes.
I've not met many sins that use weapon switches to +5E daggers for hiding energy, if you're waiting until your energy bottoms out to switch, you're already in big trouble.
+5E is most useful for frontloaded spikes, such as using [skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill] is PvE or [skill]Shadow Prison[/skill] in PvP.
As to the OP, you might be better served by just getting through the Factions campaign and using an amulet of the mists for daggers, although just by playing you should get some max damage daggers and a zealous mod from drops.
I've not met many sins that use weapon switches to +5E daggers for hiding energy, if you're waiting until your energy bottoms out to switch, you're already in big trouble.
+5E is most useful for frontloaded spikes, such as using [skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill] is PvE or [skill]Shadow Prison[/skill] in PvP.
As to the OP, you might be better served by just getting through the Factions campaign and using an amulet of the mists for daggers, although just by playing you should get some max damage daggers and a zealous mod from drops.
IrishCB
http://www.oildrip.com/calc/index.php
Damage Calculator: Have fun
Damage Calculator: Have fun
Kaleban
Quote:
Originally Posted by NukeItAll
I basically need some confirmation and some advice on the price.
I thought I either had to go for:
Ceremonial Daggers or Talons of the Forgotten
Is that correct and also, howmuch should I pay for them? BTW, a good sin has several pairs of daggers for different situations. I usually have these:
Zealous 15>50 +30
Vampiric 15>50 +30 - Shiro's FTW!
Ebon +5 20% Enchant
Use Vampiric for spiking, Zealous when energy is low or as the "general purpose" set, and the Ebon switch to setup enchants and/or when facing down warriors. It may not be a big deal, but I use Dragon Scythes (kamas now) for the zealous set, IIRC slashing damage resistance is less common than piercing in PvE, and I rarely see people use +10 slashing in PvP, although the shield inscrip is becoming more common. Since Ebon translates into elemental damage, the piercing/slashing becomes moot, I slapped it onto a pair of zodiac daggers, which overwrites the "piercing" damage type. I chose Ebon because its the least common elemental resistance, and works with [skill]Ebon Dust Aura[/skill] which can be a barrel of laughs lol.
Yes, Shiro's Daggers have that high req 13, but they're just so cool!
I thought I either had to go for:
Ceremonial Daggers or Talons of the Forgotten
Is that correct and also, howmuch should I pay for them? BTW, a good sin has several pairs of daggers for different situations. I usually have these:
Zealous 15>50 +30
Vampiric 15>50 +30 - Shiro's FTW!
Ebon +5 20% Enchant
Use Vampiric for spiking, Zealous when energy is low or as the "general purpose" set, and the Ebon switch to setup enchants and/or when facing down warriors. It may not be a big deal, but I use Dragon Scythes (kamas now) for the zealous set, IIRC slashing damage resistance is less common than piercing in PvE, and I rarely see people use +10 slashing in PvP, although the shield inscrip is becoming more common. Since Ebon translates into elemental damage, the piercing/slashing becomes moot, I slapped it onto a pair of zodiac daggers, which overwrites the "piercing" damage type. I chose Ebon because its the least common elemental resistance, and works with [skill]Ebon Dust Aura[/skill] which can be a barrel of laughs lol.
Yes, Shiro's Daggers have that high req 13, but they're just so cool!
IrishCB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
Doesn't take an Assassin's CS attribute into account. Nice one, though.
No it doesn't unfortunately. I actually thought double strike was % on every strike; was confused because of the way they word it. I searched the wiki and found nothing. So with every rank we get 2% to DS but you can't DS on Attack Skills, Dual Attack always DS. So we get the 30% on our auto attacks? I still dont get what the % to DS from?
"The chance of performing a Double strike is increased by 2% with each rank in Dagger Mastery, and by 50% by the Critical Strikes Elite skill Locust's Fury. Dual Attacks automatically double strike, while all other attack skills are incapable of double striking."- Wiki What I get from this is that DS% is only applied to auto attack?
"The chance of performing a Double strike is increased by 2% with each rank in Dagger Mastery, and by 50% by the Critical Strikes Elite skill Locust's Fury. Dual Attacks automatically double strike, while all other attack skills are incapable of double striking."- Wiki What I get from this is that DS% is only applied to auto attack?
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishCB
What I get from this is that DS% is only applied to auto attack?
Unfortunately, this is correct. Some people have tried to make the best of it by the aforementioned [skill]locust's fury[/skill] coupled with +dmg boosts like [skill]conjure lightning[/skill] or [skill]strength of honor[/skill].
In short, you won't be considering double strike % much while Sinning.
In short, you won't be considering double strike % much while Sinning.
Super Igor
If only [lucust's fury] gave 100% to double strike.....
Anyway, zeal, gives you energy, vamp is like meh...its not pvp and sundering is 101 on daggers.
Anyway, zeal, gives you energy, vamp is like meh...its not pvp and sundering is 101 on daggers.
IrishCB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
Unfortunately, this is correct. Some people have tried to make the best of it by the aforementioned [skill]locust's fury[/skill] coupled with +dmg boosts like [skill]conjure lightning[/skill] or [skill]strength of honor[/skill].
In short, you won't be considering double strike % much while Sinning. Wow that is really stupid, the only way I can see a build out of it is if you have Locust Fury an IAS and IWeapon. What a useless Mastery attribute especially when a sins damage comes from his/her chains. When are you gunna just sit there and auto attack? Stupid plain stupid
On topic: I guess the +5e would be better to pull off that little extra dmg or a survivability skill.
In short, you won't be considering double strike % much while Sinning. Wow that is really stupid, the only way I can see a build out of it is if you have Locust Fury an IAS and IWeapon. What a useless Mastery attribute especially when a sins damage comes from his/her chains. When are you gunna just sit there and auto attack? Stupid plain stupid
On topic: I guess the +5e would be better to pull off that little extra dmg or a survivability skill.
Super Igor
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishCB
I guess the +5e would be better to pull off that little extra dmg or a survivability skill.
This is what is defo...extremely stupid comment. If you are playoing Assassin....and dont have energy on a surviveablity skill you are doing it horribly.....hirribly wrong and must consider to research and learn to play Assassin or play something else/uninstall.
Sorry m8, harsh reality that is.
This is what is defo...extremely stupid comment. If you are playoing Assassin....and dont have energy on a surviveablity skill you are doing it horribly.....hirribly wrong and must consider to research and learn to play Assassin or play something else/uninstall.Sorry m8, harsh reality that is.
Bobby2
What's a survivability skill? 
petrorabbit
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishCB
...snip
What a useless Mastery attribute especially when a sins damage comes from his/her chains. When are you gunna just sit there and auto attack? Stupid plain stupid Actually, in PvP, there was a whole team that would run 2 or more assassins with [Locusts Fury], [Flurry], and [Fear Me]. Yes it sounds stupid, but it was effective enough that they nerfed Fear Me with a recycle time.
What a useless Mastery attribute especially when a sins damage comes from his/her chains. When are you gunna just sit there and auto attack? Stupid plain stupid Actually, in PvP, there was a whole team that would run 2 or more assassins with [Locusts Fury], [Flurry], and [Fear Me]. Yes it sounds stupid, but it was effective enough that they nerfed Fear Me with a recycle time.
Tyla
It's a shame that was bad...
I prefer real pressure.
I prefer real pressure.
IrishCB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
Sorry m8, harsh reality that is.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bobby2
What's a survivability skill?
Sorry I play multiple games, so my terminology is like a Gumbo. I was talking like self-heal(bad ex. for a sin), Flashing blades, Crit Defenses etc
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishCB
|
Quote: Originally Posted by IrishCB I was talking like self-heal(bad ex. for a sin) Indeed... Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishCB
Flashing blades
Remove this from your bar pl0x...
Everyone is free to give their oppinions on whoever, I gave mine about you, live with it. About grammar, it is internet, nobody gives a damn about certain things, I dont give a damn about checking my posts for typos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishCB
Quote:
Irish, your comment looks like: Bla bla bla bla....om nom nom nom....I am out of the box this why I am very bad....your english is bad bla bla bla.....internets are serious businesss bla bla bla....I am a kid bla bla bla bla, om nom nom. Generic repply for people like you. |
Originally Posted by IrishCB
Crit Defenses etc
This is free.
What I was getting at is that there's very few options for an Assassin to viably increase his survivability. The bars I've had most success with were a combination of direct offense skills (your run-of-the-mill horrifyingly damaging dagger attacks, foe-targeting Shadow Steps) and utility (Dash and Siphon Speed come to mind first) in different combinations, running no defense at all. Of course this varies highly between individuals and their playstyle, but you can't deny The Shadow Arts line sucks ******(!!!!) *****. And that's coming from a guy who's been addicted to the use of [skill]beguiling haze[/skill] for quite some time now. Super Igor
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishCB
|
Everyone is free to give their oppinions on whoever, I gave mine about you, live with it. About grammar, it is internet, nobody gives a damn about certain things, I dont give a damn about checking my posts for typos.
Quote:
Sorry I play multiple games, so my terminology is like a Gumbo. I was talking like self-heal(bad ex. for a sin), Flashing blades, Crit Defenses etc
[flashing blades] isnt worth its elite status, a costly and pretty bad skill compared to [critical defenses] and genrally both skills are unneeded, Assassin is not and will never be a tank, skills mentioned above emply it to be such which doesnt fit the profession good. As an Assassin you have an ability to deal HUGE physical damage per second constantly without worries but as you cant tank it is better to send you minion wall into the fray first, let the aggro settle and then rush in and kill everything without even being hit much.
If you rush in mindlessly in front of everyone like a high AL target could you would die or make you healers suffer tring to save you Ass, dont try to disprove me in this, Ive seens countless Assassin players who try do do "tanking" which leads them to lying on the ground most of the time.
Self Heal......you have your healers for a reason, let them do their job (making red bars go up) and let yourself do your job (making things esplode ).
If you rush in mindlessly in front of everyone like a high AL target could you would die or make you healers suffer tring to save you Ass, dont try to disprove me in this, Ive seens countless Assassin players who try do do "tanking" which leads them to lying on the ground most of the time.
Self Heal......you have your healers for a reason, let them do their job (making red bars go up) and let yourself do your job (making things esplode
).
IrishCB
[QUOTE=Super Igor]Irish, your comment looks like: Bla bla bla bla....om nom nom nom....I am out of the box this why I am very bad....your english is bad bla bla bla.....internets are serious businesss bla bla bla....I am a kid bla bla bla bla, om nom nom. Generic repply for people like you. [QUOTE]
Wow, did I hit a soft spot on the Mister? Read forum rules about butchering the english language. What you can't right click the underlined word? Can't take 1 second out of your life to spell-check so people know wtf you are saying? "om nom nom? What is this? You need to learn constructive criticism and stop bashing everyone who disagrees with you. Your comment was immature at best. You say I was trolling and flaming when you're the one who started it. End of Discussion
Have a nice day eat some cake
[QUOTE]Wow, did I hit a soft spot on the Mister? Read forum rules about butchering the english language. What you can't right click the underlined word? Can't take 1 second out of your life to spell-check so people know wtf you are saying? "om nom nom? What is this? You need to learn constructive criticism and stop bashing everyone who disagrees with you. Your comment was immature at best. You say I was trolling and flaming when you're the one who started it. End of Discussion
Have a nice day eat some cake
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishCB
Quote:
|
"om nom nom? What is this?
Nom Nom Nom is another way of saying eating. And if you ask me, he made a good point underneath the second time he quoted you. Either way, you're both getting...INCINERATION!
IrishCB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
I know a certain someone who's been doing that for a few months and hasn't been banned once for it, if memory serves...
Nom Nom Nom is another way of saying eating. And if you ask me, he made a good point underneath the second time he quoted you. I never disagreed with his skill comment. Yes I do agree Flashing Blades is bad, but I was just giving an example. If no one has been banned from the forums by not following the rules, there is no point to continue because he'll just keep flaming. /Closed Tyla
/Report the post, maybe put them on ignore, don't post back because if said person is trolling you're just feeding them. GG
Super Igor
omnomnomnom sometimes stands for rants etc.
Anyway, gave my oppinion on you Irish and you example, dont like it, dont respond with your "WTF?", "Learn to English" and other funny things. Or there would be a flame thread....what is worse....it would be in Assassin dept, and we Assassins, dont like flamings. I know that my English is kinda bad when I come to teh internets, but hey, nobody really minds it as far as I can see, you dont mind my English do you gais?
Kaleban
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
What I was getting at is that there's very few options for an Assassin to viably increase his survivability. The bars I've had most success with were a combination of direct offense skills (your run-of-the-mill horrifyingly damaging dagger attacks, foe-targeting Shadow Steps) and utility (Dash and Siphon Speed come to mind first) in different combinations, running no defense at all. Of course this varies highly between individuals and their playstyle, but you can't deny
The Shadow Arts line sucks ******(!!!!) *****. And that's coming from a guy who's been addicted to the use of [skill]beguiling haze[/skill] for quite some time now. QFT. Shadow Arts is meh in PvP, any "survival" skill the sin has is usually too little, too late. Better to get in, unload and kill, then get out. Shadowsteps > self-heal in almost every situation I can think of in PvP, the [skill]Shadow Walk[/skill] and [skill]Dash[/skill] combo is a good one, as well as the best ss in the game, [skill]Beguiling Haze[/skill], a personal fave. Hell, [skill]Siphon Strength[/skill] is a far superior elite skill to [skill]Flashing Blades[/skill], consider that FB is a stance, so no IAS (most PvP IAS are stance) and its easier for most melee classes to remove stances than an enchant such as [skill]Critical Defenses[/skill] which provides the same, potentially longer, is non-elite, and harder to remove in general.
RavagerOfDreams
trying to keep this thread on topic for the poor OP
your going to want Zealous 15^50 or 15^enchanted daggers of fortitude (+30) if your short on cash there are many green daggers with these stats that sell for a easy 3-6k and you can pick them up at your local spamadan the +5 energy argument doesn't really apply to the moebius build as you can easily have high energy just by using [skill]Critical Strike[/skill] so the extra damage is good. Super Igor
dont forget [lotus strike] and [golden lotus strike] which are too can be used to manage you energy though surely, they are inferior to [critical strike].
My personal fave for energy management is [critical eye], it is unstrippable, boosts crit chance, helps mantain [critical agility] and [critical defenses] (if I take the skill surely. |
