Hold the Bridge Vs Attack the Fort - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

14 May 2008 at 08:03 - 1

This is one of the thing that is undecided, and argue upon, words flying on your screen! you noob, hold the bridge! NO, you noob, attack the fort! so what is the correct strategy?

My idea.

When you've reach your enemy door steps, do you attack their fort, even thou your forces is not strong enough yet or do you hold out and wait for the right time to attack the fort? holding out until its the correct time = hold the bridge.

If you are being invaded, what is your first instinct? Disable foe's ability to get to your fort fast. which is = Hold the Bridge.

Either scenario requires you to HOLD THE BRIDGE! Holding the bridge gives you faster access to 5 shrines vs attack fort gets 2 shrines

heres a pictures

You can view ancestral land layout here, the spawn/ressurrect area are all exactly at the same place as that of the Kaanai Canyon one, except on is frozen water the other forest.

I am starting this thread, not because I am very good at Alliance Battlte, It just happens that every time some idiot go attack the fort the first chance they get, your side lost! So what is it that makes you think attacking the fort will win you the game without first holding the bridge? ensuring that your party member will be ressurrected not miles away (point Z or from within the fort)

I am not very sure, but I think point E & F are the teleportal.

Which one are you?
Bridge or Fort tell us why.

Please discuss in a civil manner. thank you

ReiNaruto

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

Valencia, Spain

Green Arse Team

14 May 2008 at 08:08 - 2

It depends on the way the other team plays. I remember a game that we (luxon) won in ancestral land by holding the bridge and having a team capping the outside shrines (my team). And, in another game, we manage to stick the kurzicks into their base, one team inside with the two shrines and a team in each teleporter supporting the central team.

Personally, I prefer moving all the teams clockwise while capping until you see how the other side is doing and react.

Edge Martinez

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

NC

DKL

14 May 2008 at 08:35 - 3

Ancestral is frustrating even when done right. I've won it as a Luxon a few different ways.
Two teams on the bridge, one team capping is the most common.
A variation of that was most of two teams hold the bridge, one team capping, 2 trappers dogging one teleporter pad to limit them to the other one... or lots of pain.
We also won by having two teams constantly going clockwise to cap, while the third team constantly attacked the fort.
And then lastly we've won by just having stronger builds than the Kurzicks, but that's totally random.

We've always failed when people abandon the gameplan to just go randomly attack the fort.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

14 May 2008 at 08:40 - 4

People want to attack the fort right away, disregarding that it's a horrible idea. The fort contains the two hardest points to cap for your team, and the two easiest for the other team. Not only that, your team can be locked inside the fort, forcing you to suicide. You gain no special benefits from those two points, while the bridge gives you the rez shrines.

The best way to win is to circle around capping the outside points. You should only attack the fort when there are no other points to fight at.

Breakfast Mc Rit

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2008

[Sin]

Me/

14 May 2008 at 08:53 - 5

I think one well rounded team should be taking the fort, but ONLY when you've got the defending teams on their toes with the 5 remaining shrines and ONLY when you know your allies have at least one of the resurrect shrines secured. Once more teams start attacking the fort the rest of the shrines fall and it's very hard to get momentum, and that usually means GG.

The teleportals are actually further down from your markers. They are the gray dots near the shrines.

tmakinen

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

www.mybearfriend.net

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

E/

14 May 2008 at 09:13 - 6

Attacking the fort is a gutsy move that should only be done by one (experienced and properly prepared) team out of three, and at the right moment as defined by shrine cap status and overall distribution of troops. You'll also want to cap both shrines before the enemy has time to react. When done correctly you can usually tie a large portion of enemy players into rooting you out of the fort, thus giving the other two allied teams a field day at holding the outer shrines.

miskav

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

None

Mo/

14 May 2008 at 10:30 - 7

normally just stick at the bridge for a while, untill the rest of the team can get a hint and do their jobs aswell :P

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

14 May 2008 at 11:10 - 8

Only flaw with your plan is that if both teams fight over the bridge, then by your theory, control can swing from 2-5 away to 7-0 home. However, home on average has that advantage if nobody decides to go in to attack.

Take a nuker with [Mind Blast] and AoE fire spells, and you can pretty much destroy anything inside the base on your own. The enemy side usually launched 4-6 players at me when I did that, which would be great pressure off the bridge.

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

14 May 2008 at 11:23 - 9

Meh in my opinion. never attack fort. Just cap other shrines & Bridge and never Fight.. CAP

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

14 May 2008 at 11:36 - 10

Does it not occur to you that this should be in the AB section?

There are noobs in AB. There are (rarely) some players with a brain. That's why there will always be conflicting views.

Personally, on that map - forget the fort. If you take all the shrines outside, who cares about the 2 inside the fort? The defending team won't win. If you storm the fort, only the idiots on the other team will walk down into you (which is probably why it's an effective tactic, if you consider the IQ of people playing AB). The smart people will use 1 of 2 teleporters upstairs, to move around outside capping everything back.

You don't even need to hold that bridge either. Chances are if you're all focusing on keeping it, a group of 4 will move out the back of their fort and take the other 2 shrines. Just have your team take everything (or atleast BCs) and charge around slaughtering/capping as you go.

To sum up, only attack the fort if your opposing team is: 1) made up of complete retards and/or 2) Has 1/3 of their team dc'ed/leeching.

Nightmares Hammer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/

14 May 2008 at 11:43 - 11

Cap everything. The opposition shouldn't bother you that much.

stretchs

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

Untimely Demise [Err了] - SOHK

14 May 2008 at 13:05 - 12

Def seems to be an AB type of post. As for the strategy in question, it has always been my thought to leave the inside until after you have done a decent job taking the outer cap points. Typically I will explode the doors though just to be sure to make the other team concerned about it, plus if/when I do want to go in, they may still be open.

Dylananimus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

The Eternal Champions

W/Mo

14 May 2008 at 14:58 - 13

The majority of the times I've won there as Luxon is when holding the bridge, and having one team cap the other two shrines back and forth. There's no need to go into the fort then, you have the majority of the shrines if you can hold them. Better to have 5 shrines than 2.

Of course, it rarely works that way, and you get everybody piling into the fort...leaving the bridge to be taken back, and pretty much always losing the game. In my experience.

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

14 May 2008 at 15:15 - 14

Mostly, people are capping by running in circle clockwise or counterclockwise.

I actually always used the exploit as Kurzick and stormed the Fort, while the Luxons run outside and let us take it usually.

But you are right, it is not smart at all...
You are actually very right - holding the bridge alone gives you a strong defensive position and 3 shrines, 2 of them rez shrines.

You need only 1 more, easy for the clockwise cappers (^^), and you have made it.

I need to suggest this strategy this to my usual team. OK, I did not AB for ages, but next time...^^

Lordhelmos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Sentients of Shadow (noir)

Me/E

14 May 2008 at 15:17 - 15

Get a bonder, healer, and two wounding strike dervs into the center base of either ancestral or kanaai canyon and you can completely trash the enemy team + killfarm them on rez. Unless your other teams are absolute failures its usually a guaranteed win.

People underestimate how many points you can score off killfarms. A long series of spawn kills can out-score a strong capping team. I've won AB games only holding 1 outside shrine and the 2 at center based and still beat the enemy team off raw killing.

Of course capping is important, but if you have a team that rushes the mob and feeds them points on rez, you can still lose -even if you hold the majority of the shrines.

Strategies for good AB should include killfarming idiots. If you crush a weak team and are near their rez shrine, you can make alot of points by decimating them and preying on their weakness.

~

Really the strength of holding the center isn't really about just the shrines, its about trapping the enemy at center base and killing the hell out of them when they spawn.

The same strategy goes for holding the three shrines in front of the enemy base at etnaran keys or grenz frontier. If you can choke the enemy in their base and bloodbath them when they try to get out, you can make a ridiculous amount of points -even if the enemy team is up on you in shrines.

defect

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

South Africa

[MYST]

W/

14 May 2008 at 15:20 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Not only that, your team can be locked inside the fort, forcing you to suicide.

Well you can always use the teleports on the walls to get out.

And I'd say it depends a lot on your team.If you have an experienced team you can get into the fort,cap it and rush out through the teleport on the other side to get to the next shrine in a very short time.I'd be tempted to say in the same time it would have taken to run around the fort but if your team is a bit iffy, avoid the fort and cap around it IMO

bobrath

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Texas

Scouts of Tyria

14 May 2008 at 15:27 - 17

The fort can be a great "suck" of resources for either team. For the attacking team - if done properly with a small group of players, you can take a good portion of the aggro from the defending team. Of course as stated above, this does depend on the defending team being more nooby then not. The problem for the attacking team comes when other teammates decide to "help" hold the fort instead of keeping the capping pressure on the outside points.

For the defending team, I like nothing better then letting the attacking team in and then repairing behind them. If I can lock 6 players into the fort (and most of the time they're not smart enough to use the base defender to suicide), then that's half the team not outside capping up the shrines.

To the original OP's question, I would hope that teams would default to holding/taking the bridge. There are 3 shrines - just holding them is going to give you an advantage - if only because it restricts the opposing team's respawning points - especially deadly for the attacking team.

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

14 May 2008 at 15:30 - 18

You can attempt to capture the fort if you already posses all the exterior shrines. The Bridge has 3 shrines, two of which are ressurect shrines and thus is more important than the two inside the fort. 5 exterior shrines versus 2interior, think about it.

The problem with the base is that it can quickly become dangerous, you can be locked in and the luxons will constantly be spawning in there.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

14 May 2008 at 15:52 - 19

If you hold the bridge you will lose. You also need one of the two bottom shrines. Caping the fort should only really be attempted if the fight is already really one sides or if the other team is mobbing and is far away from the fort.

In my opinion, the best tactic is to just have every team move counterclockwise or clockwise and just constantly be capping and recapping the outside shrines.

ShadowsRequiem

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Inde is Smoking [Hawt] *ToA*

W/E

14 May 2008 at 15:55 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

Meh in my opinion. never attack fort. Just cap other shrines & Bridge and never Fight.. CAP

Imo thats the best idea to do. IF you keep capping outside of the fort you have 5 shrines. Much easier then having to cap 2 shrines inside a base where a Spawn point is.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

14 May 2008 at 16:16 - 21

Merely holding the bridge is a surefire way to lose 4 shrines to 3. Even holding the bridge and sending 1 squad out to cap a 4th shrine is a loser if the defenders realize that all they have to do is kill that squad every time it ventures out.

Victory for the attacking team comes from generating constant pressure on the 4 non-bridge shrines so that the defenders never even think of going after the bridge because they're too busy. Where you put that pressure should depend more on where the enemy is (and is not) than on whether the shrine is internal or external.

As for capping the internal shrines being hard, it's not. A decent elementalist can kill the wall NPCs and solo cap both shrines if they're unguarded by human players. A team of 4 should have no trouble at all. (And, if they are guarded, that means the exterior shrines aren't.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

The fort can be a great "suck" of resources for either team. For the attacking team - if done properly with a small group of players, you can take a good portion of the aggro from the defending team. Of course as stated above, this does depend on the defending team being more nooby then not. The problem for the attacking team comes when other teammates decide to "help" hold the fort instead of keeping the capping pressure on the outside points.

I agree. When people see some modicum of success in the fort, they tend to abandon their posts and rush to "help," often ending up as a mob, and that seals your fate -- mobs cannot win as the attacking team on the deep maps.

Quote:

For the defending team, I like nothing better then letting the attacking team in and then repairing behind them. If I can lock 6 players into the fort (and most of the time they're not smart enough to use the base defender to suicide), then that's half the team not outside capping up the shrines.

Me too. My record is 8 locked inside without the sense to suicide.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

14 May 2008 at 16:23 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

As for capping the internal shrines being hard, it's not. A decent elementalist can kill the wall NPCs and solo cap both shrines if they're unguarded by human players. A team of 4 should have no trouble at all. (And, if they are guarded, that means the exterior shrines aren't.)

It's not hard, it just takes an inordinate amount of time. First, you have to cap the side shrine to break down the door. Next, you have to find a caster to kill off the wall NPCs. Lastly, you have to cap a shrine next to a spawn point. In a gametype requiring fast capping and mobility, you're at a big disadvantage in the fort.

Breakfast Mc Rit

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2008

[Sin]

Me/

14 May 2008 at 17:04 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It's not hard, it just takes an inordinate amount of time. First, you have to cap the side shrine to break down the door. Next, you have to find a caster to kill off the wall NPCs. Lastly, you have to cap a shrine next to a spawn point. In a gametype requiring fast capping and mobility, you're at a big disadvantage in the fort.

Gate guards don't respawn, so a good elementalist splitting from a competent team, killing off NPCs wouldn't hurt. Collapsing on a weakened fort after 2-3 laps would help a whole lot.

But that requires said competent team and without it I do have to agree that attacking the fort is going to hurt the team rather than help.

Shadow Slave

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

..My home away from home..

Currently looking ~

N/

14 May 2008 at 17:05 - 24

I tend to tell teams to cap clockwise at first and aim to hold the outside shrines, ignoring the fort until we have a strong lead

Only when/if you are leading by quite a margin is it often worth going for the Fort at all.

You start running into trouble when you have more than 4 people trying to cap the same shrines.....usually completely unnecessary and a costly waste of players who should be capping something else on a map where the odds are already against you.

- If you happen upon an enemy who is simply following in your footsteps and capping the shrines back the second you leave them....then sometimes going for the fort is a nice way to break the pattern.

It really depends and changes based on the opposition AND the teams you get paired with.

Nuclfus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

Screw guilds.

Me/

14 May 2008 at 18:55 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

Imo thats the best idea to do. IF you keep capping outside of the fort you have 5 shrines. Much easier then having to cap 2 shrines inside a base where a Spawn point is.

Just because you try to cap those shrines doesn't mean the enemy won't take them back or more likely just cut you down before you get there to begin with. Otherwise I might as well say that if you cap both inside and outside the fort you have 7 shrines instead of 5, which therefore makes it a better strategy.

If you don't put any pressure at all on the inner fort shrines, then the enemy is going to have 12 players against your 12 to fight over the 5 shrines that are left. Assuming your 12 can cap at the same rate as the enemy, that gives each team 2-3 shrines (out of only those 5) on average at any one time. The equal capping rates are after taking into account that they have a more central res location, with teleporters from inside the fort to critical points on the outer circuit, and the elite shrine NPCs (lvl 24 warrior and ranger) that can follow their team - which means even this losing scenario (2-3 shrines controlled by your team vs 2 + 2-3 shrines under their control) assumes your team's players are somewhat better so as to compensate for their advantages.

Deciding only to "hold the bridge" reduces that pool of 5 contested shrines to 3. That gives the enemy team 4 shrines they don't even have to worry about defending, which leaves all 12 of their players open for attacking your bridge and probably holding 1 or 2 of those shrines at any time.

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

14 May 2008 at 19:05 - 26

My optimal strategy is a function of the capabilities and strategy of the other two teams on my side.

The following is almost always true:
1) My team of 4 can hold off 6-8 people in the central fort for a long time before collapsing, drawing valuable resources away from the fight for the outer shrines. Plus, four of our twelve resources (players) are then holding two-sevenths of the cap points - an excellent return on investment.

2) I am paired with idiots who are incapable of actually killing enemy teams in a 4v4 fight, but can run around in a circle and cap shrines.

3) The other teams I am paired with are either too bad at the game to do an effective job of holding the center or insist on remaining outside and scream at us the entire match for holding center...even though we win.

Therefore, we take the center. We win about 75% of the time this way on the enemy's map. When we lose, it's usually because the two teams we are paired with are too bad at the game to even cap shrines. Every once in a great while it's because somebody just owns us in center due to skill and matchup.

EDIT: On the spawn point complaint - you should ALWAYS be running a team with ranged, caster damage that does not rely on line of sight if you plan to take center. Then you can lock down players in respawn, compelling them to flee to the teleporters or stay back and out of range in order to survive.