The rifleman/marksman/musketeer/arquebusier/sniper

The rifleman/marksman/musketeer/sniper

I imagine this being a new class for Guild Wars 2, where since the first Guild Wars development has been made into gunpowder (or some magical alternative) and firearms.

General

The rifleman uses a different weapon from all other classes with different advantages and disadvantages. The rifleman relies on being able to stay in one spot for some time, staying concealed from enemy aggro for as long as possible and giving support to the rest of the party. The rifleman’s biggest weakness is having low armour and melee classes.

Explanation

The rifleman/marksman/musketeer/sniper is a long-range class used to pin down, cripple, disable and interrupt as well as causing such affects as bleeding and deep wound.

Weapons would be confined to those that take several seconds to reload such as a musket and a single-action revolver. Firearms in Guild Wars would be at the very early stages of development so no machine guns, shotguns or rocket launchers.

Shooting at distance requires direct line of sight, more so than that of a ranger but as an added benefit the greater distance and the relevant attribute gives the rifleman the chance of being concealed from enemy aggro and avoidance from attack would be much easier. This enables the rifleman to fire multiple times at distance, at different targets, disabling and interrupting while the rest of the party runs into combat.

The rifleman would have a low armour rating being a class that is able to attack out of the range of enemy attack and aggro. The rifleman’s biggest threat would be the assassin who can shadow step into melee range without detection. At close quarters the rifleman’s only line of defence is a bayonet or switching to a pistol. The rifleman’s ability to reload larger weapons when in melee range will be disabled or significantly hindered.

The rifleman would have the ability to increase the damage each shot does by taking aim and waiting for the opportune moment. To balance this, the more damage the shot can do the more time it takes to set the shot up. Success could be increased with various preparation skills such as focus and take aim as well as crippling which would slow the enemy’s movement and improve the rifleman’s ability to aim.

Disabler and supporter role: They are the first line of offence being able to disable the enemy before the rest of the party enters combat. At which point the enemy will be much easier to handle.

Spiker role: The rifleman could have the ability to deal a great amount of damage in a single shot. When used with other skills such as bleeding, the rifleman has the possibility of killing a single enemy quickly. This would be balanced by the time taken to shoot as the rifleman could be discovered and made to flee or engage combat or a wrongly chosen target could move out of sight or be killed before the shot is made and consequently wasted.

Caster or lower armour
Medium Energy
Long-Ranged

So a ranger but with guns?

Yes, it's a ranger. Just let them use guns in GW2.

/thread

WoW is also a RPG, that has Muskets and Blunderbusses in. It would actually be pretty cool to have in GW if balanced right.

Reload times on the gun for instance should be a couple of seconds while the Musketeer clears any remaining gunpowder etc.

[skill=text]Lighting Orb[/skill] the magical alternative.
But then again the first 100 years of fire arms have very little firepower and where good for little other than testing armor strength, making wands and staffs more likely to be their equivalent.

Anyway, my point being, technology derives form from function, magic derives function from form.
Hence the magical alternative to guns is about as likely to include a tube containing a explosion to push a projectile out of 1 end of the tube, as Tyria is to completely forget about dwarven powder kegs and Kournan siege machines all together.
(Cantha has been cut off in GW2 so teh cannons on top of Seige turtles have a good shot of being lost to the rest of the world)

Yes you read that right the basis is already there, the Charr also have something that explodes but as those are studded with crystals I am sketchy about how they go boom.
So I would not be surprised if we again face some foe who wields gunpowder against us.
I however do not think players will get anything sophisticated, because technological players should be unable to dual class as magic users and the other way around.
As the theory Arcanum states:
I do not think Anet plans to have us duke it out from 2 sides of a conflict magic and technology should have, in a game with lore that is respectably worked out.

If it´s single action, as in 1 bullet at a time, there is no revolving chamber with extra bullets; so there is no revolving going on in that revolver.
The early stages would be stockless guns which barely dented armor and where 1 shot per battle, carried mostly for the demoralising effect. Even that demoralizing effect is wiped off the table by magic that can produce actual thunder instead of just the sound of it.

Blunderbusses, which where the predecessors of shotguns where actually invented before muskets, because muskets fire round bullets, which weren't accurate enough to be used at more than 20 meters unless you where firing a whole lot of them.
So the idea of firing shot from a gun was invented first; as shot fires a whole lot of bullets on its own, but each bullet deals a lot less damage.

But even with its improved chances to hit, a blunderbuss's it's optimal range is still less than that of a bow and a lot less than a crossbow.

To get a sniper like you want you need guns that weren't invented until over a millennium after the discovery of gunpowder; near the end of the American civil war.
Instead you could try for a crossbows, you could even use Chinese repeating crossbows (Not the stupid van Helsing gas powered idea, strings don't reset that fast, but the chines repeating crossbow had a lever to go click click with, as if it was a shotgun)
You can squeeze a lot more accuracy and range out of those.

Or with light magic, technically that is long range and accurate too.


I would love a game where steampunk and magic face off for world domination, but don't think there is any chance of that happening in Guild Wars.

Rifles in GW? Sorry not in any GW I'd want to play. One of the great things about GW was that it stayed away from technology. When I had heard about the Asura being technological I cringed at the thought. But Anet was smart and just made animated golems that ran on magic crystals. Leave that kind of thing to WoW or any other game. I'm happy enough with swords and sorcery.

don't think GW would be the same kind of game with firearms. I think all the magic is supposed to supplement that. Firearms, basically, would make it lame.

First let me say, I'm a gun collector/hunter/shooter.

Second.. No.

/notsigned

EDIT: Btw System Crush, Single Action means it has to be cocked for every shot.

I'll just add a few things.

First off this wasn't a post to plead for guns in Guild Wars but the concept for a new class that would happen to use guns. I realise people would be wary or outraged that a game set,with all appearances, in the middle ages (but with magic) might also have firearms. But as I said, I imagined this to be a class for Guild Wars 2, which is set several years after the first and of all games I would think Guild Wars would take the risk of diverging from the typical fantasy RPG rulebook.

As I tried to make apparent there would be many differences between this class and the ranger. If you're basing your judgement on the fact that both are ranged weapons you need to consider the ranger against the ranged attacks of the magical classes, as well as the differences between the numerous melee classes.

I realise early firearms were often worse for accuracy then a bow or a crossbow, it was more of a suggestion that limiting them to early firearms would be more in keeping and more easily balanced with other class weapons. Lastly it's only an idea so relax, it's not like I suggested lightsabers, if it's a terrible idea it will not be implemented so what's the fuss in suggesting and discussing it. I like seeing new classes and there are only so many ways you can reuse swords and sorcery.

The reason it's in the RPG rulebook is mainly because that's the way most people want it.

terrible idea

Don't make out of GW2 a Counterstrike Clone for poor ones!!

No Guns whatever for GW2, the world of GW2 is medieval fantasy based and should stay so. GW is no Final fantasy Clone neither.

The G.O.L.E.M Example doesn't work, because this technology of thwe Asurans IS based on MAGIC. Their golesm are no mechanical structures, which work only with electricity and pysical mechanics like simple robots.

The kurzick cannon is just a fantasy weapon, doesn't also count as weapon and the luxon siege turtle cannons are a canthan speciality of as said luxons ..

In GW2 there will ne NO Luxons and no Kurzicks anymore, so there will be nothing, that will use their technology about gunpowder (luxon side wise)
Beside luxons only Dwarfes used gunpowder but only for explosive stuff, so dynamite, not for weapons like rifles, besides dwarfes are no technologic race, when it comes to battles, the preferred weapon of a dwarfs will be eber its Hammer or Axe and not arifle or so -.-

If rifles woudl be implemented, Bows would look agaisnt them complete obsolete, also rifles and handguns are against al other weapons simple overpowered, logic wise you can't balance these weapons, because their fire power and damage potential would be logic wise alot higher, than that of a bow.

When you look with loogic at riffles for GW, they would have then like a damage ration of like 40-75 compared to bows, which have only 15-28. The technology of rifles makes them totally overpowered versus any other medieval Weapon. Shots of rifles are strong enough to pierce through any armor of medieval age and to instat kill foes.

NO JUST NO

Forget finally about rifles, they will never be implemented to GW2 (hopefully), the only technological advancement over bows would be Crossbows as alternative to bows for dealing stronger shots due to alot higher armor penetration bonus (20%AP bonus on all crossbows standart), but max range is only that of a short bow to recurve bow and longer time to reload.
So Crossbows will be then not able to shoot farer, as Long or Flat Bows

Horn Bows will be removed, such bow types don't even exist lol and they will be removed for as said Cross Bows

Wow and I thought and Waves of Crap is over =_=.


Why the hell do you even think This Generation of Firearms would be implemented in GW2?
Obviously it's still based on on Ur Medievil Crap, not some Sci-Fi Game.
So then Obviously they'll implement Flintlocks and Revolvers =P.
Not MSGs and Armlites @_@.


And I am pretty sure the Luxons and Kurzicks are Alive but not Well cause of the Ironhand of Who's-Who Emperror thinks his Kim Jong Il.
They'll probably Revolt in somewhere in the game maybe in Later Expansion.


Rifles and Bows are still Ballancable you Idiotic Talking Fiend -_-.
You just need to use sumthing called an "Imagination".
If you believe "One Tiny Bullet" would deal 40-75 Damage then let's think about it =P.
Comparing to a Broad Arrow which you believe would only deal 15-28 Damage.


There's a Strategy of Ballancing you know how?
It's "Speed over Strength and Strength over Speed".

If a Rifle would deal 100 Damage every 2 Seconds with No Skills.
And a Bow would deal 50 Damage every Second with No Skills.

or

A Bow would deal 50 Damage every Second with No Skills.
And Revolver would deal 25 Damage every .66 Second w/o Skills.

Then who would win?
Also the Faster it goes, Higher the Crit Rate.


And in Skills Bows and Firearms are still an equal Match while Bows have Versatility, Firearms have Power.
While Firearms are set as Damagers, and Bows are set as De-Buffers.
Can Firearm Poison Foes and Cause and Noxiating Gases? or Bows deal Armor Cracking Damage and Hit Deep Organs?


Lastly, If your gonna Stake sumthing of Great Strength on a Bullet.
Then the Minimal and Maximum Damage must be Far to eachother.
Same as how the Hammer and Scythe goes.

Beaten Yet or Coming for some more @_@?

And for Ur G.O.L.E.M prob why don't you look "Mechanical" up in the Dictionary ^_^.
And if You already Know, then such known Knowledge of Mechanics should be able to produce something Easy to come-up with^_^.
And it's a 200 Years Timeskip, Humans can already do that Job why can't the Higher Knowledge of the Asurans can't ^ ^?

And when the Asurans were introduced Semi-Sci-Fi was already Introduced to GW^ ^".
Or we can think of it as Mage-Punk the Magical Version of Steam Punk ^ ^!

Hm, talking about gunpowders, I expect characters will be able to have some action on ships.

Should ships be using cannons in Guild Wars 2 or should it be more like the way Romans and Greeks fought on ship? I don't recall if the corsair ships in the first Nightfall mission had cannons, but I'm pretty sure the corsairs did no more than just fire arrows at the village.

I'd personally like to see it go no further than flinging explosive barrels from catapults.

Not only /unsigned, but HELL /UNSIGNED. I am SO sick of everything having to have guns! If you want guns, go play Tabula Rasa.

I think I remember in the First Mission in Nightfalls there were Cannons, I think.

No the ships have archers and you shoot them with catapults.

In the 5th mission, you do shoot down a door with a really weird looking siege flintlock(as in: its a cannon, but has a firing pin like a pistol, so technically it's not a cannon, just a huge pistol with a really short barrel)

[edit]
For non NF character the mission order is different though making the assault on Gehenna the second or third mission.

Thanks for Correct^ ^.

So basically you could take a team of 8 snipers/rifleman, stay waaaaay out of the enemies aggro range and cripple/deep wound/bleed the hell out of them, while still doing moderate damage and never allow them to get close to you?

Doesn't sound good to me.

no its a ranger with a longbow

/thread

^^

There are ways around everything. If this was such an issue then either the other party would need to learn to play around the rifleman's strengths just like with any other class or the concept needs to be more balanced. Who's to say that the other classes will not also be given skills to counter this new class? There are several ways you could deal with what you suggest, if everyone was to just look at/point out the worst case scenario without considering ways to tackle it and most importantly being constructive then there would be no classes at all and no game for you to play.

In regards to your scenario, if I was the other team firstly I'd make sure to keep moving around if I knew there were hidden riflemen. A moving target is not as easy to hit and with the rifleman's slow attack every shot would be vital. Then I'd split the team up to search for the riflemen's hiding place. With the rifleman's weak defence nearly any class on its own would be able to defeat them up close. A riflemen's strength comes from being able to stay in position to set up shots, so constantly having to move out of range would be no help. For a team of riflemen to be as powerful as you say they would need to have extremely good tactics and formations.

Remember this is only a concept. If you're of the mindset that you simply don't want guns in the game that's fine otherwise please try to be constructive if you're going to post something even if it is criticism.

@magna: its not the difference of, if an arrow hits you, or a bullet, the difference it the freaking POWER behind it, what hits you and rifles simple aren't balanced, because the power of their shots compared to the shot of an simple arrow is several multiple times stronger, especially when shot at you from near distance, a shot of a rifle wil hit you like a shotgun, alone because of the pure power behind the shot.

Shots of rifles are logical wise so strong, that they pierce through the whole body of the foe, because the armors are too weak to be a protection against the firepower of rifles. Chain mails eventually can decrease the power of an arrow shot, so that it won't be deadly if oyu get hit by one, but against rifle bullets a chain mail won't help you, neither silly weak robes of our caster professions.

a Monk gettign shot by a rifle should be instantly dead normally... rifles and hand guns are the technology of the 16th to 17h century. But GW2 WILL BE BASED ON THE 13 to 14th century, mean simple its even in GW2 200+ years too early for rifles !!!!

Anet can implement Crossbows, absolutely no question, but Crossbows at least WOULD fit to GW2's timeline. and Crossbows are alot easier to balance versus Bows, than Rifles and Handguns would be, not to mention versus all the other medieval weapons.

Blackpowder should be used in GW2 only for Bombs and Dynamite and for Cannons on Ships for Sea Fights, which I hope will find they way into GW2 ala Suikoden 4 or better. For nothing else, because anythign else owuld not fint into GW2's timeline and would only let the game look like a Counter Strike for poor ones or a Granado Espada Clone, which is a similar Game like GW, only with the difference, that its setting plays in the as said 16/17th century, where rifles were common like Sand on the Beach...

No one said anything being based on the 13th and 14th Century =P.
(Yah, saying 200 Years of Guild Wars is very Comparable to our Primitive History, Sarcastic)

And did you even read my last post?
While the Rifle can have all it's Power and Damage, can they Poison Foes? Burn them? or Mix them with Magic(If were talking bout Plain Rifles)?

Damage can Increase alot if you add Conditions and Elemtal Damage.

Last one thing a Rifle can't do is Barraging.

While the only things a Rifle can have is Power, Armor Penetration, Distance and Explosive Attacks(AoE, possibly Through Skill).

Comparing AoE to Multi-Spiking, Multi-Spiking is more Accurate and Less Escapable.

what would the skills be for a ... ? one thing, contruary to other people saying "it's a ranger", they could have bayonets on the end of their guns. but i think a step forward to guns would ruin the idea of gw, like people have said so far. and if they went through water, to not be stupid Anet would have to make the guns clog up. so... nah