Hello. I am quite ignorant when it comes to playing assassins in general, having never done so for any length of time, and was just curious if you could resolve something for me. I have read in multiple posts that due to nerfing the assassin class is in many ways "broken." Could someone please clarify how the class is, or can be perceived to be broken, and if there have been any effective strategies to get around such obstacles (alternate builds, etc)? I would like to play one some time, but if it is going to be a gimped liability in pve (where I play most often these days), then I may reconsider.
Thanks for your assistance.
Assassins are broken?
Kafiri_Mkorogai
moriz
the moebius assassin can maintain 80DPS forever into infinity in pve. they are broken, but in the sense that they are too powerful.
the nerfing mainly impacted in assassin pvp performance. however, those nerfs merely brought them back in line from the ridiculousness of what they were like before. the only people who complained about those nerfs are the ones without the necessary skills to succeed without resorting to running those overpowered crap. for anyone with a brain, assassins perform well in pvp, especially in AB.
the nerfing mainly impacted in assassin pvp performance. however, those nerfs merely brought them back in line from the ridiculousness of what they were like before. the only people who complained about those nerfs are the ones without the necessary skills to succeed without resorting to running those overpowered crap. for anyone with a brain, assassins perform well in pvp, especially in AB.
Tyla
In an overpowered way, yes.
These days they are at a decent level. Instagibs were never good for the game.
It's still decent to use in PvE though.
These days they are at a decent level. Instagibs were never good for the game.
It's still decent to use in PvE though.
Super Igor
In PvE nothing is overpowered, PvE is not competetive.
In PvP...shadow steps...instagibs....gvg ganking...quite a lot of specific skills.
In PvP...shadow steps...instagibs....gvg ganking...quite a lot of specific skills.
itsvictor
Assassins really broke PvP. Shadowsteps and instagibs were bad for the game. They are still viable but originally they were too powerful (Spikes based on a definite recharge time=bad). Moebius+DB rules PvE. To put it Moriz's way, you need a brain to play it well now(That is not to say 123 spikes make you good).
la_cabra_de_vida
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
In PvE nothing is overpowered, PvE is not competetive.
In PvP...shadow steps...instagibs....gvg ganking...quite a lot of specific skills. QFT, in a game where positioning = everything, sins can defy this rule.
In PvP...shadow steps...instagibs....gvg ganking...quite a lot of specific skills. QFT, in a game where positioning = everything, sins can defy this rule.
poobert
Personally I liked the shadow stepping, but combined with the ability to kill anything and everything in all of 4 seconds did ruin it. Then again I never have played in high end GvG, where they say shadow stepping has wreaked havoc even without the "headshot".
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by la_cabra_de_vida
QFT, in a game where positioning = everything, sins can defy this rule.
Not only that, but it can also be abused by other melee professions.
I believe Dervs to be strongest with Shadowsteps, as they also have a broken weapon.
I believe Dervs to be strongest with Shadowsteps, as they also have a broken weapon.
FlamingMetroid
The implementation of the skills was also very poorly done, many of them [shroud of silence] for example, can only either be overpowered or crap.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Not only that, but it can also be abused by other melee professions.
I believe Dervs to be strongest with Shadowsteps, as they also have a broken weapon. ^this. Shadow Step + Scythe Spike = wet pants.
[skill]death's charge[/skill] followed by
[skill]bull's strike[/skill] or [skill]earth shaker[/skill] is nasty too.
EDIT: Sins excel with room to manoeuver - We Rule AB.
I believe Dervs to be strongest with Shadowsteps, as they also have a broken weapon. ^this. Shadow Step + Scythe Spike = wet pants.
[skill]death's charge[/skill] followed by
[skill]bull's strike[/skill] or [skill]earth shaker[/skill] is nasty too.
EDIT: Sins excel with room to manoeuver - We Rule AB.
Kaleban
The reason sins are not overpowered with shadowstepping (in most cases) while other classes ARE is due to the nature of dagger attack chains.
A teleporting Dervish with a couple of solid attack skills is a nightmare, or Fire nuking (Starburst a personal fave) Eles teleporting into the middle of a mob with a GlyphSac Meteor Shower are good examples.
If a sins' lead attack (or conditional offhand) misses, the rest of the skills whiff, and/or you're doing mediocre auto-attack damage. That's why anti-melee counters are MOST effective vs. a sin, as their entire damage output is erased, whereas classes that don't have skill lead-ins only see a small decrease in overall damage.
PvE-wise, there are some specific builds that either out-damage any other class, such as Moebius+DB easily outdoing even SH ele builds, or the ubiquitous shattersin who's only weakness is blind, which can be easily overcome.
PvP-wise, the class suffers because in MOST cases people are not as dumb as AI, and take advantage of the fragile nature of many sin attack combos when it comes to block/evade/blind.
However, in either case, a well-played sin is very effective, and there are still skills out there that make people go: "WTF JUST KILLED ME??" That makes playing a sin especially enjoyable!
A teleporting Dervish with a couple of solid attack skills is a nightmare, or Fire nuking (Starburst a personal fave) Eles teleporting into the middle of a mob with a GlyphSac Meteor Shower are good examples.
If a sins' lead attack (or conditional offhand) misses, the rest of the skills whiff, and/or you're doing mediocre auto-attack damage. That's why anti-melee counters are MOST effective vs. a sin, as their entire damage output is erased, whereas classes that don't have skill lead-ins only see a small decrease in overall damage.
PvE-wise, there are some specific builds that either out-damage any other class, such as Moebius+DB easily outdoing even SH ele builds, or the ubiquitous shattersin who's only weakness is blind, which can be easily overcome.
PvP-wise, the class suffers because in MOST cases people are not as dumb as AI, and take advantage of the fragile nature of many sin attack combos when it comes to block/evade/blind.
However, in either case, a well-played sin is very effective, and there are still skills out there that make people go: "WTF JUST KILLED ME??" That makes playing a sin especially enjoyable!
Chthon
Such comments usually refer to PvP. The problem with assassins is that they can deliver a near-instant kill, meaning that you predict them and preemptively stop their attack chain (blind, pre-guardian, etc), or you die. Of course, predicting when and whom one is going to attack is hard because they shadow step. A-net has taken steps to tune down their ability to single-handedly kill things faster than reactive measures can be taken, but they remain significantly more able to kill someone in a shorter window than any other class. (And that's the fundamental design problem right there: No matter how much a-net tones down their power level, they are always going to be more "instagibby" than the other classes, right up until you hit the point that they are nothing more than inferior warriors.)
In PvE the assassin was a horrifically weak class up until PvE-only skills were added. Since hit-n-run tactics don't work as well in 100-on-8 situations as they do in 8-on-8 situations (or 4-on-4 or whatever), assassins end up trying to behave like frontliners, where their lack of armor becomes a BIG problem. Critical Agility goes a long way to compensate for this.
In PvE the assassin was a horrifically weak class up until PvE-only skills were added. Since hit-n-run tactics don't work as well in 100-on-8 situations as they do in 8-on-8 situations (or 4-on-4 or whatever), assassins end up trying to behave like frontliners, where their lack of armor becomes a BIG problem. Critical Agility goes a long way to compensate for this.
moko
ok, so, let's take signet of might, bugged version. you cast it on anyone, after a few second they instantly die.
counters: blackout the signet of might
so with your argumentation, signet of might was not overpowered.
i guess that makes sense -- stop trolling now.
counters: blackout the signet of might
so with your argumentation, signet of might was not overpowered.
i guess that makes sense -- stop trolling now.
matsif
sins aren't broken, just got nerfed from doing 200+ damage to a 70 AL ranger (me) in the old days. instagib was dumb
now I find a combo of SS+RH+Price of Failure+Empathy to be quite enough to pwn the average sin in ab or ra/ta etc. love noobs who attack thru that.
now I find a combo of SS+RH+Price of Failure+Empathy to be quite enough to pwn the average sin in ab or ra/ta etc. love noobs who attack thru that.
RavagerOfDreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magikarp
simple answer. no. they aren't.
more detailed answer:
blind, anti-melee hexes, shield bash, any anti-melee stance. yes we are horribly overpowered in PvP
Assassins can defy all rules of positioning on a field. There is no way of telling where or when a sin will strike because he can do so whenever he feels like it. This creates a huge advantage right off the bat. Not only that but sins can gain instant access to places that other classes have to run to we simply shadow step up walls or even across maps. Using [skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill] Sins can create huge advantages for there teams while splitting. Example: Sins run off to go wreak havoc on the opposing guilds NPC's and a warrior and a derv from the opposing team follow. But before they left they shadow stepped using [skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill] so they are still anchored to the main fight. So they go to the NPC's and maybe kill one maybe not but then they release the shadow step and boom 8 on 6 advantage at the flag stand. This can also work in reverse as the flag runner and warrior will chase the sins away only to have them release the shadow step again and there back in the NPC's to cause all sorts of hell.
That + the fact that were the only class to take a full health target from 600 to 0 is a little overpowered. However im not saying the whole idea of sins is flawed. The idea of shadow stepping needs to be fixed to require some line of sight. As for the instagib chains...the sin is totally vulnerable to all forms of damage while using a instagib chain so its not horribly unbalanced.
more detailed answer:
blind, anti-melee hexes, shield bash, any anti-melee stance. yes we are horribly overpowered in PvP
Assassins can defy all rules of positioning on a field. There is no way of telling where or when a sin will strike because he can do so whenever he feels like it. This creates a huge advantage right off the bat. Not only that but sins can gain instant access to places that other classes have to run to we simply shadow step up walls or even across maps. Using [skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill] Sins can create huge advantages for there teams while splitting. Example: Sins run off to go wreak havoc on the opposing guilds NPC's and a warrior and a derv from the opposing team follow. But before they left they shadow stepped using [skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill] so they are still anchored to the main fight. So they go to the NPC's and maybe kill one maybe not but then they release the shadow step and boom 8 on 6 advantage at the flag stand. This can also work in reverse as the flag runner and warrior will chase the sins away only to have them release the shadow step again and there back in the NPC's to cause all sorts of hell.
That + the fact that were the only class to take a full health target from 600 to 0 is a little overpowered. However im not saying the whole idea of sins is flawed. The idea of shadow stepping needs to be fixed to require some line of sight. As for the instagib chains...the sin is totally vulnerable to all forms of damage while using a instagib chain so its not horribly unbalanced.
Bobby2
Quote:
moriz
my monk can shadow step too. is my monk overpowered as well? uummm... i don't know....
it really boils down to what happens AFTER the shadow step, and whether going /A is worth the loss of whatever other secondary that you could use.
on axe warriors, very little is worth the cost of losing [[[email protected]]. on monks, going /A meaning giving up another potential utility skill or energy management.
i think with minor exceptions, only assassins can truly benefit from shadowsteps, because they don't need to sacrifice a potentially useful secondary to use it, and because everything they do is tied to shadowstepping to begin with.
as such, shadow steps can only be classified as "overpowered" on primary assassins, and are generally neutral on secondaries.
it really boils down to what happens AFTER the shadow step, and whether going /A is worth the loss of whatever other secondary that you could use.
on axe warriors, very little is worth the cost of losing [[[email protected]]. on monks, going /A meaning giving up another potential utility skill or energy management.
i think with minor exceptions, only assassins can truly benefit from shadowsteps, because they don't need to sacrifice a potentially useful secondary to use it, and because everything they do is tied to shadowstepping to begin with.
as such, shadow steps can only be classified as "overpowered" on primary assassins, and are generally neutral on secondaries.
RavagerOfDreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by moriz
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bobby2
Anyone who can Shadow Step has this positional advantage - yaay /A. Let's call every melee profession overpowered, shall we?
ahh yes so true however warriors cannot afford [skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill] high energy cost and maintain while still having to use frenzy. sins can keep energy for there chains with critical strikes. And as for skills like [skill]Shadow Prison[/skill] It denies the warrior a elite skill which just makes it a baed choice compared to [skill]Eviscerate[/skill] or [skill]Devastating Hammer[/skill]. The other shadow steps have a 30 second recharge making them sorta useless. Dervs can ill give you that but there dying out in GvG and HA because sins do it better. The only derv you see in GvG is a [skill]Avatar of Melandru[/skill] derv but then they won't be using a sin elite will they
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by moriz
as such, shadow steps can only be classified as "overpowered" on primary assassins, and are generally neutral on secondaries.
/disagree
Dervs. EDIT: And yes, Return should be nerfed to hell  EDIT2: what have Dervs to lose by running [skill]shadow walk[/skill]-[skill]dash[/skill]? Just need to remember to activate HoF beforehand. [skill]aura of displacement[/skill] is but a SINGLE example of shadow stepping - you gonna base your entire argument on that?
moriz
HB is pve, so it doesn't count
Quote:
Dervs.
only true when pious assault was a 1/2s swing. nowadays, their slow swing rate really hurts them to the point that sins are more dangerous.
|
RavagerOfDreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
/disagree
Dervs. EDIT: And yes, Return should be nerfed to hell
dervs dont pack as much punch as a sin does with high critical strikes so sins are used more with spikes like that.Back when derv spike worked it was overpowered but its not now edit- Sins do moar damage mkay? Also the shadow walk/dash combo takes up two spaces on a already cramped derv bar and when using shadow walk you can't get your IMS going so if the monk choses to kite then your in trouble.
Bobby2
Eremite's and Mystic are back at 1/4 amirite? In my experience it were the fast follow-ups to the DW that did the trick
Didn't consider they don't have [skill]wild blow[/skill] available as /A... that changes stuff a little too  EDIT: I took HoF into consideration
RavagerOfDreams
exactly they have better options then shadow steps
sins and monks are really the only classes that can fully abuse shadow stepping. All classes as you pointed out can abuse it but not as well.
moko
Quote:
Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams
|
Quote:
and no, they're dervishes. nobody wants dumb scythe sins with wounding in gvg when they deal less damage and die so much faster. stop spreading false information. but yes, maybe they're in HA, in A/D spikes, but not melee pressure.|
sins and monks are really the only classes that can fully abuse shadow stepping. All classes as you pointed out can abuse it but not as well.
every class can abuse a shadowstep, in a gimmick eurospike, shadow prison warriors much? shockwave, dual shadowstep. d/a, a/d spike much? or plain dervspike? sure, they have been nerfed, but they did work at some point. even return is bad for the game. other casters don't need to abuse shadowsteps. the funny thing is, instead of fixing the shadowsteps, they always nerfed the spike skills to hell. i actually tend to believe that shadowsteps on dagger sins are less dangerous than other things. ever since instagib has been slowed down, i couldn't care less about sins anymore. the only dangerous thing that's left is SA. so what, it's inferior to other melees in any competetive gvg, and any kind of trash works in pve, so /care. sins themselves are pretty bad by now, just the skills they brought to other classes for abuse are OP. edit: and sinsplits are shit by themselves, the midline makes them good. before anyone wants to mention that. :P
RavagerOfDreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by moko
eurospike, shadow prison warriors much? dead 12charsofawesomeness edit: all the builds that you mentioned worked at there time dont really matter now as they dont work now
moko
Quote:
Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams
|
and yes, the builds are clearly dead, because sin shadowsteps made them way too OP. instagib is dead too, your point? there is a reason why they were nerfed, think about it. -_-
besides, these classes can still abuse these skills. wait for the next PvP update and you can expect good eurospikes with W/A coming back.
oh and obviously they don't work anymore, OH WAIT THEY DO. in fact, all of them still work, of course not the exact same ones, but modded ones.
true story: other classes abuse shadowsteps as fine as sins too. it's all gimmick dependant, swoosh?
RavagerOfDreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by moko
and yes, the builds are clearly dead, because sin shadowsteps made them way too OP. instagib is dead too, your point? there is a reason why they were nerfed, think about it. -_-
besides, these classes can still abuse these skills. wait for the next PvP update and you can expect good eurospikes with W/A coming back.
oh and obviously they don't work anymore, OH WAIT THEY DO. in fact, all of them still work, of course not the exact same ones, but modded ones.
true story: other classes abuse shadowsteps as fine as sins too. it's all gimmick dependant, swoosh? i believe amazing strength used a A/D and yea its used in GvG
http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6427 check out mah mad research skills
http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6415
main reason why is dark apostasy's enchant removal which a derv can't replicate or really any other proffesion.
and the AoB derv spike doesnt work anymore (and by dont work i mean they've been replaced by better builds)
moko
..you won't get it.
A/D spikes is quite dead now, might still work but nobody runs it anymore.
your point was that apparently dervs are dying out, and you say so in a melee pressure meta where people run 1 to THREE WOUNDING STRIKE DERVS.
?! of course, now and then there's A/D in gvg too, but it's much more common in ha, unlike melee pressure, and people don't use sins for that.
maybe you should check out obsmode sometime instead of browsing old stuff.
also, look what you said.
Quote:
edit: all the builds that you mentioned worked at there time dont really matter now as they dont work now
guess what, they hardly work anymore. now please think through your posts a bit more, okay?A/D spikes is quite dead now, might still work but nobody runs it anymore.
your point was that apparently dervs are dying out, and you say so in a melee pressure meta where people run 1 to THREE WOUNDING STRIKE DERVS.
?! of course, now and then there's A/D in gvg too, but it's much more common in ha, unlike melee pressure, and people don't use sins for that.
maybe you should check out obsmode sometime instead of browsing old stuff.
also, look what you said.
Quote:
and besides, you make it look like i said A/D spike never worked or was never used?
/leaving the ignorant person alone now, no point making someone understand simple things~ try re-reading everything and think about it, you are contradicting yourself again. -_- *heads to bed*
RavagerOfDreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by moko
..you won't get it.
A/D spikes is quite dead now, might still work but nobody runs it anymore.
your point was that apparently dervs are dying out, and you say so in a melee pressure meta where people run 1 to THREE WOUNDING STRIKE DERVS.
?! of course, now and then there's A/D in gvg too, but it's much more common in ha, unlike melee pressure, and people don't use sins for that.
maybe you should check out obsmode sometime instead of browsing old stuff.
also, look what you said.
guess what, they hardly work anymore. now please think through your posts a bit more, okay? if you had read all my posts you would see that i did say HA/GvG so all my points about wounding strike/da sins are still valid. Didn't have to be gvg even though they are used there. also just cuz no1 in the top 300 guilds runs it doesnt mean no1 runs it just not you cool kids
A/D spikes is quite dead now, might still work but nobody runs it anymore.
your point was that apparently dervs are dying out, and you say so in a melee pressure meta where people run 1 to THREE WOUNDING STRIKE DERVS.
?! of course, now and then there's A/D in gvg too, but it's much more common in ha, unlike melee pressure, and people don't use sins for that.
maybe you should check out obsmode sometime instead of browsing old stuff.
also, look what you said.
guess what, they hardly work anymore. now please think through your posts a bit more, okay? if you had read all my posts you would see that i did say HA/GvG so all my points about wounding strike/da sins are still valid. Didn't have to be gvg even though they are used there. also just cuz no1 in the top 300 guilds runs it doesnt mean no1 runs it just not you cool kids
Magikarp
other than the fact that my post mysteriously vanished.. lol
sins suffer the same anti melee tactics as any other class. very few counter procedures should ever be used the second before an attack skill is used, so theres no reason why you wouldn't simply keep a sin blind, or keep him hexed ect.
not to mention all of the active anti melee stances/skills out there. shadowstep or not, im not seeing any of your points as to how you can't predict their moves.
red dot of danger gets near your radius bubble, hex/blind/weaken whatever, boom, useless. he can still step if he wants, but his damage is weakened, just like any other form of frontal attack.
even the more reactive skills still work, like clumsiness/inep, shield bash, shield of force ect.
to me, its just an excuse for lazy playstyles... i monk, i have no problem catching spikes and shadowsteppers of any class, so either im awesome (which i know im NOT), lucky (which i'd have to have 24-7 luck), or just paying more attention to detail, which i think a lot of you aren't tbh.. (no offense).
sins suffer the same anti melee tactics as any other class. very few counter procedures should ever be used the second before an attack skill is used, so theres no reason why you wouldn't simply keep a sin blind, or keep him hexed ect.
not to mention all of the active anti melee stances/skills out there. shadowstep or not, im not seeing any of your points as to how you can't predict their moves.
red dot of danger gets near your radius bubble, hex/blind/weaken whatever, boom, useless. he can still step if he wants, but his damage is weakened, just like any other form of frontal attack.
even the more reactive skills still work, like clumsiness/inep, shield bash, shield of force ect.
to me, its just an excuse for lazy playstyles... i monk, i have no problem catching spikes and shadowsteppers of any class, so either im awesome (which i know im NOT), lucky (which i'd have to have 24-7 luck), or just paying more attention to detail, which i think a lot of you aren't tbh.. (no offense).
RavagerOfDreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magikarp
or just paying more attention to detail, which i think a lot of you aren't tbh.. (no offense).
maybeh b/c spikes in HA using scythe sins can take a person of any al from 600 to 0 in like 3/4 of a second to a second? dunno but thats a little tricky to catch especially when theres no pre hexing or conditioning required so the caller can pritty much chose w/e target he feels like.
as for instagibers yea its easy to stop so what you want a cookie?
as for instagibers yea its easy to stop so what you want a cookie?
Neverending Silence
imo classes are never "broken"... builds and skills maybe...but classes no! sometimes u simply need new ideas. or be a better player and make smarter choices in game. if a nerf stops u from playing just as efectively as b4 come up with a new idea. i would rather have a pro sin over any other class in pvp than anything else. sins rape...its a fact. always will be. nerfs or no
Magikarp
Quote:
Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams
maybeh b/c spikes in HA using scythe sins can take a person of any al from 600 to 0 in like 3/4 of a second to a second? dunno but thats a little tricky to catch especially when theres no pre hexing or conditioning required so the caller can pritty much chose w/e target he feels like.
as for instagibers yea its easy to stop so what you want a cookie? if you're talking about one sin being capable of doing this, i'd love to meet him. if its a group of people, all of the typical anti spike precautions take effect. positions on radar, pinning, infuse techniques, and spirit bond/ps are all anti spike tools, not to mention all of the bazzillions of anti melee skills there are in the game.
i've faced these gimmicky builds in HA while monking here and there (they're not popular..) and they fail for the same reasons any gimmick heavy build fails for...
predictability..
as for instagibers yea its easy to stop so what you want a cookie? if you're talking about one sin being capable of doing this, i'd love to meet him. if its a group of people, all of the typical anti spike precautions take effect. positions on radar, pinning, infuse techniques, and spirit bond/ps are all anti spike tools, not to mention all of the bazzillions of anti melee skills there are in the game.
i've faced these gimmicky builds in HA while monking here and there (they're not popular..) and they fail for the same reasons any gimmick heavy build fails for...
predictability..
RavagerOfDreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magikarp
if you're talking about one sin being capable of doing this, i'd love to meet him. if its a group of people, all of the typical anti spike precautions take effect. positions on radar, pinning, infuse techniques, and spirit bond/ps are all anti spike tools, not to mention all of the bazzillions of anti melee skills there are in the game.
i've faced these gimmicky builds in HA while monking here and there (they're not popular..) and they fail for the same reasons any gimmick heavy build fails for...
predictability.. im sry i cannot ignore this1 bobby
1. no, im talking about an entire team
2. you can't tell where a sin will shadow step unless theres only one target in his radar (which a good sin will make sure hes got lots of options so the monks don't preprot his target). You can tell where he has shadow stepped which is a huge advantage but this is not predicting this is watching.
3. the only way to stop those spikes is a combo infuse/rof (or some MBaS/SL) from your backline and, once again, thats amazing clicking reflexes not predictability.
4. there a spike team who doesn't know they'll be spiking? So yes the spike fails often but if there was a spike the succeeded 100% of the time what would be the point of the game?
5. i like the number 5 so what?
i've faced these gimmicky builds in HA while monking here and there (they're not popular..) and they fail for the same reasons any gimmick heavy build fails for...
predictability.. im sry i cannot ignore this1 bobby
1. no, im talking about an entire team
2. you can't tell where a sin will shadow step unless theres only one target in his radar (which a good sin will make sure hes got lots of options so the monks don't preprot his target). You can tell where he has shadow stepped which is a huge advantage but this is not predicting this is watching.
3. the only way to stop those spikes is a combo infuse/rof (or some MBaS/SL) from your backline and, once again, thats amazing clicking reflexes not predictability.
4. there a spike team who doesn't know they'll be spiking? So yes the spike fails often but if there was a spike the succeeded 100% of the time what would be the point of the game?
5. i like the number 5 so what?
Magikarp
unless you're playing a different game, even with 3 critical hits, on a 650hp target at full hp, you're not dropping them instantly, or even within 3 seconds, which is more than enough for a good monk to catch, IF they didn't have any form of blind/hexs/anti-melee hexes to slow, or totally stop him to begin with.
if you see something of such a high threat, you stop it in advance, not wait till the last minute. you make it sound like this is the end all build in the game, but its barely used, so its kind of hard to even understand what meta you're talking about.
i rather see a derv with a step than a critsin goofing up all over the place, and even then, they aren't "broken", its simply a different, more surprise-spike than if you were just running up to someone. you also sacrifice a lot of other utility when leaning towards the shadowstepping side of frontlining.
if you see something of such a high threat, you stop it in advance, not wait till the last minute. you make it sound like this is the end all build in the game, but its barely used, so its kind of hard to even understand what meta you're talking about.
i rather see a derv with a step than a critsin goofing up all over the place, and even then, they aren't "broken", its simply a different, more surprise-spike than if you were just running up to someone. you also sacrifice a lot of other utility when leaning towards the shadowstepping side of frontlining.
RavagerOfDreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magikarp
unless you're playing a different game, even with 3 critical hits, on a 650hp target at full hp, you're not dropping them instantly, or even within 3 seconds, which is more than enough for a good monk to catch, IF they didn't have any form of blind/hexs/anti-melee hexes to slow, or totally stop him to begin with.
if you see something of such a high threat, you stop it in advance, not wait till the last minute. you make it sound like this is the end all build in the game, but its barely used, so its kind of hard to even understand what meta you're talking about.
i rather see a derv with a step than a critsin goofing up all over the place, and even then, they aren't "broken", its simply a different, more surprise-spike than if you were just running up to someone. you also sacrifice a lot of other utility when leaning towards the shadowstepping side of frontlining. wakey wakey magicarp i said im talking about a entire team
that means that the only hit that matters is the first one which will apply the deepwound. If you manage to then disrupt the sins 2nd or 3rd attacks the rest of the team will be more then capable of handling the target. Also the sin won't spike if hes hexed and most sins carry assassins remedy so even if you get a bsurge off you'd have to cover it before he used his next attack skills which often both have 1/4 activation times.
GL with that
if you see something of such a high threat, you stop it in advance, not wait till the last minute. you make it sound like this is the end all build in the game, but its barely used, so its kind of hard to even understand what meta you're talking about.
i rather see a derv with a step than a critsin goofing up all over the place, and even then, they aren't "broken", its simply a different, more surprise-spike than if you were just running up to someone. you also sacrifice a lot of other utility when leaning towards the shadowstepping side of frontlining. wakey wakey magicarp i said im talking about a entire team
that means that the only hit that matters is the first one which will apply the deepwound. If you manage to then disrupt the sins 2nd or 3rd attacks the rest of the team will be more then capable of handling the target. Also the sin won't spike if hes hexed and most sins carry assassins remedy so even if you get a bsurge off you'd have to cover it before he used his next attack skills which often both have 1/4 activation times.
GL with that
Magikarp
my apologies, i misread "no, im talking about an entire team".
still, SB/PS end the spike, as do any form of interruption. if its a hex heavy team, you'll never not have anti-melee, and if your target has any stance of any sort, now you have problems again.
dont forget about your enchants being ripped as well, and the fact that sins are nothing but glass cannons, so once you're stopped, now you're right in line for a savage beating.
draw, FF, or any other condition control counter the spike, as does classic Infuse, so im still not seeing how this is broken.
a big ball of spikers can easily kill the unprepared, no doubt, but some goofy gimmick doesnt make the whole class "broken" (which none are in gws), and is the point of this awful thread, especially when its been proved time and time again how easily those gimmicks can be countered (ritway, rspike, bspike, ect...) or, on the other hand, nerfed (like ritway and iway).
still, SB/PS end the spike, as do any form of interruption. if its a hex heavy team, you'll never not have anti-melee, and if your target has any stance of any sort, now you have problems again.
dont forget about your enchants being ripped as well, and the fact that sins are nothing but glass cannons, so once you're stopped, now you're right in line for a savage beating.
draw, FF, or any other condition control counter the spike, as does classic Infuse, so im still not seeing how this is broken.
a big ball of spikers can easily kill the unprepared, no doubt, but some goofy gimmick doesnt make the whole class "broken" (which none are in gws), and is the point of this awful thread, especially when its been proved time and time again how easily those gimmicks can be countered (ritway, rspike, bspike, ect...) or, on the other hand, nerfed (like ritway and iway).
Adja1005
I can't stand how overpowered Assassins are at the moment in PvP, especially in AB, as they can go/be anywhere at anytime. Not to mention they can drop a Warrior with 800hp down to 0hp within a few seconds.
I'd love to see Assassins get smacked with the nerf bat, harsh i know, but this class has just ruined AB to be honest. I usually disagree with nerfs as i'm of the opinion that nerfing a class or skill doesn't create balance. But something needs to be done about Assassins in AB because at the moment its gg pwned within seconds if one decides to come at you.
I'd love to see Assassins get smacked with the nerf bat, harsh i know, but this class has just ruined AB to be honest. I usually disagree with nerfs as i'm of the opinion that nerfing a class or skill doesn't create balance. But something needs to be done about Assassins in AB because at the moment its gg pwned within seconds if one decides to come at you.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adja1005
Quote: Originally Posted by Adja1005 Not to mention they can drop a Warrior with 800hp down to 0hp within a few seconds. They can't (unless we're talking srs Frenzy-Healsig noobiness). BTW 800 HP would imply crap skills like [skill]endure pain[/skill] in which case that War deserves to die most horribly anyway.
Quote:
I have nothing against the nature of what the Assassin class is meant to do i just think there needs to be some equality. The fact they can go anywhere and spike the hell out of anyone then disappear is somewhat annoying lol.|
Originally Posted by Adja1005
I'd love to see Assassins get smacked with the nerf bat, harsh i know, but this class has just ruined AB to be honest. I usually disagree with nerfs as i'm of the opinion that nerfing a class or skill doesn't create balance. But something needs to be done about Assassins in AB because at the moment its gg pwned within seconds if one decides to come at you.
The fact that this comes from a Ranger primary just made my day.
Adja1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bobby2
The fact that this comes from a Ranger primary just made my day.
Not totally sure why you said that, but i'm glad i made your day lol. And btw i'm not actually a Ranger primary !
|