Does Stealing Accounts Equal Theft?

Much of the time, hackers are protected by the laws of their countries.
That's why, for example, warez sites use off-shore hosting.

dude, don't be racist.




lol j/k :P, i agree with you totally: i paid cold hard cash for the rights to play that game, and if someone besides Anet takes that right away, it's like they are taking my money away, which equals theft.

Why move it to Riverside if it's a discussion? It's not like anything gets discussed in Riverside.

Technically, you're selling access to the account. Implying you are selling the account itself is stealing from ANet, since they own it and players have no right to transfer ownership.

Well, technically it is up to the countries laws where the user is situated. Depending on where you are, parts of Anets Eula are null and void (such as the account ownership). In Germany for example possession is clearly split into 2 different words depending on the situation.


Buying a product (or account) means you have 2 parties in the deal.
In this case you have the owner of the account (German: Eigentümer=loosely translated legal owner) through purchasing the game.
And you have the other owner of the account (German: Besitzer= loosely translated legal posessor) which is Anet. They are technically speaking only the holders of the account because the user has proof of purchase.

Im pretty sure that if Anet were to be taken to court in Germany due to an account banning because it was sold from the legal purchaser to a second private person (not that im thinking of buying a used account, or selling mine), then Anet would loose. In the law here, they can not be an owner of a product which they sold and advertized as free to play, so they have absolutely no power of second hand selling.

WoW on the other hand (similar comparison) clearly rents game play time. In this canse the account may be sold, but Blizzard can reserve rights to disallow the new user to add game play credit (or whatever it is called) to that account.

I'm sure it would be, but the problem is that it's very hard to find who's responsible, and then they'd still have to prove they done it.

it's not theft

computer intrusion
unauthorized access/use
phishing in some cases
etc

but not theft.

most players get access to their (stripped) account back anyway, which is all they really have a right to.

the real question is whose fault is it? the customer for being so damn ignorant/arrogant with their online practices or ANET/NCSOFT for failing repeatedly to address concerns about their security? and how much will it take for them to finally come around, if ever?

If you can't figure out that breaking into anything, without someones permission isnt theft then...nevermind not going to say it.

You answered your own question with the title of the thread.

Stealing=theft.

I'm an armchair lawyer, so someone who's been to law school can correct me here. The only thing that's clear about virtual property laws is that they aren't.

From a criminal standpoint, it definitely isn't theft. Nothing is being stolen. At best, various computer laws against hacking might come into effect resulting in a minor slap on the wrist.

From a civil standpoint, things are even shakier. According to Anet, you don't own anything on your account, so you can't sue anyone if you're deprived of your account. However, there isn't a clear judgment here. Depending on your country and judge, the EULA may not be 100% valid. People in Korea have successfully sued both game companies and other individuals over virtual property, overruling the EULA. In the US, rulings tend to lean towards following the EULA.

As a player, it's best to act as if there are no laws protecting your stuff. Keep strong passwords, change them often, don't screw with third-party programs, etc. Don't give yourself a chance to be involved in virtual property law disputes. At the same time, the relative lack of online law also makes it easy for so many to pirate software, so it works both ways.

only way i can see you getting hack is via using a 3rd party or using xfire, or beeing silly enough to give out your details which i have made that mistake in the past. other then that you cant get hack ohhh and via hotmail emails if you open a keylogger.

But i dnt think in england there will be any justice done to those who commit this crime or what im aware of.

Imagine renting a house with no monthly rent. Kinda hard to imagne it as "rent" when you only have to pay for it once, but that's how Anet works (as opposed to the Blizzard landlords).

We all originally PAID to live in a small house rental with ANet as the landlords. You being the owner of anything inside it is just an illusion.

Landlord makes money by charging you extra if you want to move into a 2- or 3-story upgrade (chapters). Skill packs, xtra slots, etc are for rent via their online store. GW2 will be no different.

Monthly PvE & PvP skill nerfs/buffs are their attempt at fixing the plumbing/heating when it gets broken.

Yes, because A) You're taking someones account regardless of what they say.
B) You're also stealing their money.
C) Doesn't theft mean stealing anyway?

account theft is prosecutable by law. it is theft under $5000.
Aner is not obligated to take leagal action on your behalf, and since Anet are not the victims, they cant initiate legal action.

the person stoled from, if they have hard proof of who what where when
can have the person charged with theft and fraud.

Getting the information as to who it is, will be difficult in the extreme.
Anet cant divulge the identity of the hacker.

HOWEVER anet can be called as a witness, to verify the account was indeed stolen, and if persued a good lawyer can obligate anet to reveal on the stand
weather the defendant is indeed the one that stole said account.

The hacker if found guilty will have that convition on thier record and could cause HUGE problems for them later on in life. esp. computer related thefts.

a person once convicted of fraud and/ or theft of this nature will have a red flag all thier life when they apply for any type of security clearance, jobs,
even schooling!

it would even show up if they apply at Mcdonalds.Making it very hard for them to advance into any career that involves a degree of trust and responsibility.

How can you find out who? thats the tricky part since everyone that would be able to know is under legal obligation to secrecy.

I think its pretty stupid that we pay for the games, and we are only "using" the accounts. We don't own them, they are on loan to use, its like we are renting them.

With this logic anet could seize control over anyones account since it is theirs and the player would be out all their money and time and could do nothing about it.

But if that happened, those players could take the company to court and sue for compensation and stress, mental anguish or something like that. Game companies are not allowed to sell people something then make it impossible to use it.

So yea if someone jacks your account, its stealing, but not from the player, its stealing from the company. I say we should all learn from this if anyone decides to play any more online only games.

its really not worth the trouble. But again people are happy about paying monthly fees to rent time on a game that is not theirs. The bad thing about Rent to play, is that in the end you are left with nothing but memories.

Guildwars is as far as I am willing to go. No way in hell would I pay monthly fees to play something that isnt even mine. I have serious doubts of gw2, I might end my online only gaming with gw1 and caulk it up to a minor loss.

If someone hacked my account, I am to the point I wouldnt care as much. I have become soured on gw, anet and ncsoft. Bad companies use bad buisness practices which breeds bad communities and hard feelings.

So to the point, yes account theift is stealing. But there is nothing you can do about it aside from contacting support and getting your account back, unless the account was used to sell gold or accounts in which case you are screwed.

+1 for console gaming.
- 1,000000000 for online gaming.

maybe but remember just a game

I think it's petty to consider anything like this a theft. In most cases it was you who gave information to get your account stolen. Here is a example we'll use... would you give a guy your credit card number because he needs a hotdog? You probably wouldn't. If a site offers quick leveling and item duping by just typing in your email and password then your account gets stolen, is that really stealing? Even keyloggers, that's you downloading and nothing is making you download the programs that are infected with them. There is no stealing here, only a loss. I'm banned anyway and wouldn't care even if someone stole my account because I would know that myself is the only one to blame in most cases.

@Tyla, there's no stealing of money involved here. Your only using what someone else bought and usually keeping it by changing their password. You could say that they still have the account and never had it stolen, since they originally bought it, but someone else is using it.

And even then, if you're stealing what someone else payed for, you are stealing their money because they purchased an account which is stolen.

Just because someone did something stupid to deserve getting their accounts stolen (Like giving away ID and password to a shady website) doesn't mean they willingly gave up their accounts. This guy tells me that he'll clean my car for me if I gave him my car key, so I give it to him. Then, he drives away with the car. That's stealing.

I don't know... Say I go hotwire a car and ride it around. It seems to be congruent with your argument - that the owners bought the car but never had it stolen, since they originally bought it, but I'm using it.

account theft is dumb what sort of person would go to such trouble just to take someones account

Bad analogy - player's don't own their accounts. ANet owns the accounts, as stated in the EULA. And as ANet keeps control of the account regardless of who owns it, it's impossible to 'steal'.

You could probably find some loophole in that, though - maybe that if account details are taken without knowledge (keylogger, etc), it could constitute restriction of access, which only ANet is supposed to have jurisdiction over. That's a stretch though.

Ok interesting discussion. Note I say this on the basis of English law.

theft and stealing are not the same thing legally speaking. Stealing is a wider term that most people will equate to theft. However stealing i think would also include the crimes of fraud and other crimes that are not technically theft.

Theft is defined under s1 of the theft act as:

(from memory) Dishonestly appropriating property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive.

you need to prove 2 aspects:

mens rea: Dishonesty, intention to permanently deprive

Actus Rea: appropriate, property belonging to another

the reason why stealing an account is not theft is because the GW account cannot be defined as property.

Access to the GW account is a right under a contract not an item of property.

However I am sure that stealing the account would be a crime under a number of other statutes.

I'm referring only to the money lost in not transferring your possession of the account info.

Isn't selling accounts for money illegal in the first place as it violates the EULA?

This is wheels within legal wheels!

I'm not entirely sure that "illegal" can be applied to anything that breaks the EULA.

Breaking the EULA is breaking the EULA and therefore not (always) punishable in a criminal court. Whether or not it is in a civil court is another matter.

Take using Textmod, or even the XFire interface thing that has been done. The EULA clearly states that you cannont use 3rd party software with the game, but this is most definately not a criminal offense. Even Anet is happy to turna blind eye towards some of these activities.

It is, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.