I was just talking with friends that play WOW and other games online. They were talking about how they can spend hours making a toon and then selling the toon on e-bay. So my question is a touchy one.
If I buy prof. and start 1 toon and make it LDoA can I sell my Whole account?
(Why anyone would spend 5 month dling and then give it up is just stupid)
I said to my friends that GW was different than those cruddy games they play cause you need to do things for yourself not just oh here look at me I am ******* or whatever I paid 500 bucks and got this??? How stupid.
Long Live the GUILD!!!
Can I sell My WHOLE account???
imnotyourmother
Hobbs
In practice you most likely could but it would be against the EULA and the account would get banned were anet to hear the transaction to have taken place. But you'd have your money by then so it'd only be the other guy who gets screwed over...
Kattar
No.
*waits for the lock*
*waits for the lock*
Antheus
Of course you can. It's against EULA, and can get you banned and your account terminated, but people do it all the time nonetheless.
Good luck selling an account with single character and single title though.
If that's what you think, then leave games, and get a job. I mean that honestly - there's much more money to be made, it furthers your life and all that.
One title on one character isn't worth much. It's buyer's market of course, but I would say such account wouldn't sell for more than $10, which is less than the account costs in the first place. And people would buy it for storage, not for title.
If you have one of pvp titles (HA r14 or something like that), then you could get some $50-200.
The overall price of time spent in online games is measured in cents per hour. So a 500 hour character (maxed as much as it can be in that time - buyers will know) will go for $50-100.
Long story short - any minimum wage job pays 50-500 times as much as game time.
Good luck selling an account with single character and single title though.
Quote:
| (Why anyone would spend 5 month dling and then give it up is just stupid) |
One title on one character isn't worth much. It's buyer's market of course, but I would say such account wouldn't sell for more than $10, which is less than the account costs in the first place. And people would buy it for storage, not for title.
If you have one of pvp titles (HA r14 or something like that), then you could get some $50-200.
The overall price of time spent in online games is measured in cents per hour. So a 500 hour character (maxed as much as it can be in that time - buyers will know) will go for $50-100.
Long story short - any minimum wage job pays 50-500 times as much as game time.
zwei2stein
Assuming you are selling for real money, issue you should be concerned about is: who the hell is gonna buy account just for LDoA character they cant even rename/pick profession/pick look/assimilate to their normal account?
WoW char trading is at rage because you can add bought toon to your account and rename it to your liking.
WoW char trading is at rage because you can add bought toon to your account and rename it to your liking.
DarkNecrid
Can you?
Yes.
You can also run around outside naked, kill someone, rob people, pirate music/games, light someones house on fire....etc.
It's not legal. It's not even legal in WoW, so...
Yes.
You can also run around outside naked, kill someone, rob people, pirate music/games, light someones house on fire....etc.
It's not legal. It's not even legal in WoW, so...
Antheus
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
[i]
It's not legal. It's not even legal in WoW, so... |
And in WoW it's common practice, one way or another. In WoW, this makes sense, since they earn money through subscriptions.
If someone buys an account, they will keep on playing. It also means they have lots of money to spend, so they'll buy expansions and all that.
Ctb
Quote:
| It's not legal. It's not even legal in WoW, so... |
imnotyourmother
OK I get the drift.
I thought it was stupid argument cause I LOVE guild wars. As you can guess by my statements that it is a touchy question of which I have no intention.
So the second question is should Guild Wars 2 implement some of the same game dynamics as in wow?? toon trading gold hording?? stuff like that???
Would be weird.
I thought it was stupid argument cause I LOVE guild wars. As you can guess by my statements that it is a touchy question of which I have no intention.
So the second question is should Guild Wars 2 implement some of the same game dynamics as in wow?? toon trading gold hording?? stuff like that???
Would be weird.
kerpall
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Originally Posted by Antheus
If someone buys an account, they will keep on playing. It also means they have lots of money to spend, so they'll buy expansions and all that.
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WoW makes money either way, GW does not.
mr_groovy
Short awnser "no".
Long awnser "thy shall not sell an account".
Does it stop you from doing so? Nope.
Long awnser "thy shall not sell an account".
Does it stop you from doing so? Nope.
Ctb
Quote:
| Guildwars on the other hand is bought and paid for goods. If you go and sell your account, that is one less person that could buy an account from Anet. |
I understand why they don't want that to happen since they have to continue paying upkeep on servers without having that additional sale to help, but I think it's awfully sketchy to be told "well, you bought it, but it's not really yours". It kind of falls under the category of "well, that should have been considered when you created your business plan".
sibelang
good luck!, успех!, !حظ سعيد, Viel Glück!, semoga beruntung!
etc... xD
etc... xD
quickmonty
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Originally Posted by Ctb
Which brings up an interesting related point: if I paid for it, why can't I resell it? It's mine. I bought the disc, I paid for access, so why shouldn't I be able to transfer it, just like any other game?
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zwei2stein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by quickmonty
Because they say you can't. It's in the EULA, the contract that you have to "sign" in order to play the game.
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However, you pay anet for CD key and box and manual, etc ... Not for account. Technically, you don't own it, your ownership of acc is only implied by you being associated with it and having full access to it.
Kattar
EULA is a legal contract. I'm sure their lawyers would love to talk to you about that one. Lol.
Kumu Honua
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ctb
Which brings up an interesting related point: if I paid for it, why can't I resell it? It's mine. I bought the disc, I paid for access, so why shouldn't I be able to transfer it, just like any other game?
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Licenses are non-transferable in the EULA. Thus, you "Can't" resell it because you agreed to the EULA that states that you cannot.
Witchblade
The items and characters are part of a service, THAT, you paid the right to use it.
But you dont OWN the items you are using, so you cant sell them
But you dont OWN the items you are using, so you cant sell them
captain_carter
You do not own the account, it reamins the property of Anet. It wouldbe as illegal to sell the account as it would be to sell your neighbours car.
Ctb
Quote:
| Because they say you can't. It's in the EULA, the contract that you have to "sign" in order to play the game. |
Quote:
| Thus, you "Can't" resell it because you agreed to the EULA that states that you cannot. |
Not cut and dry at all.
Quote:
| EULA is a legal contract. |
Quote:
| But you dont OWN the items you are using, so you cant sell them |
Quote:
| It's the same reason you can't install one copy of Windows on two computers. |
Quote:
| It wouldbe as illegal to sell the account as it would be to sell your neighbours car. |
Also, here's an EFF page on "Unconscionability" in click wrap licensing that's particularly interesting:
Unconscionability
Contract law and contracts are not nearly as hard and fast as most people assume them to be. Many, MANY contracts that we're subject to in our daily lives very likely on continue to exist because nobody has yet had a good enough reason, or the resources necessary, to challenge them.
imnotyourmother
So basically if I wanted to sell it I can not as it is for my enjoyment only. If I want to buy and sell and make RL gold I would simply get WOW or the others and do so there. Works for me.
I just had a thought. I have never played WOW as it would cost me money to play or something like that. Guild wars does not charge for online play.
If doing the same things as on WOW, buying gold, selling toons and stuff would result in my having to PAY RL Money for every second that I played then PLEASE do not change a thing.
I play like min 5 hours a night so that would be VERY bad for me as I would never make that back cause I am in live for Pre-Searing.
I just had a thought. I have never played WOW as it would cost me money to play or something like that. Guild wars does not charge for online play.
If doing the same things as on WOW, buying gold, selling toons and stuff would result in my having to PAY RL Money for every second that I played then PLEASE do not change a thing.
I play like min 5 hours a night so that would be VERY bad for me as I would never make that back cause I am in live for Pre-Searing.
Ctb
None of this should be construed as legal advice, it's the opinion of a computer programmer. Don't try to use it as legal advice, don't assume I know what I'm talking about, and don't come crying to me if I give you the wrong impression from my personal opinions below.
What it comes down to is this:
You can, but ANET will ban you, the buyer, and other involved parties, and the only way it's getting reversed is if you successfully press a costly, time-consuming lawsuit to nullify the portions of the EULA that they're using to hit you with the ban stick. Plus you'd risk opening yourself up to litigation from the buyer who could try and argue you defrauded them, and from ANET who could try and argue that you damaged their business in some way. Plus there's no guarantee that the EULA wouldn't just be upheld anyway.
You can, but it would be pretty stupid to waste your time and money doing so, so if you have any sense about you, don't.
Quote:
| So basically if I wanted to sell it I can not as it is for my enjoyment only. If I want to buy and sell and make RL gold I would simply get WOW or the others and do so there. Works for me. |
You can, but ANET will ban you, the buyer, and other involved parties, and the only way it's getting reversed is if you successfully press a costly, time-consuming lawsuit to nullify the portions of the EULA that they're using to hit you with the ban stick. Plus you'd risk opening yourself up to litigation from the buyer who could try and argue you defrauded them, and from ANET who could try and argue that you damaged their business in some way. Plus there's no guarantee that the EULA wouldn't just be upheld anyway.
You can, but it would be pretty stupid to waste your time and money doing so, so if you have any sense about you, don't.
sixty7velle
It is more common than most people think. I've sold a couple of games/accounts on ebay, and as long as they aren't tied to your plaync account, it's easily done. If the account is tied to the plaync account, then you cannot change the account name (email address), but only change the plaync email. Thus, you will have to sell your plaync account also, so that the buyer will be able to change passwords, contact information, etc.
My conspiracy on the bonus missions were to get people to spend money on the gw store to make them tie their account to a plaync account. Thinking that this would make account changes more difficult than it's worth, people would stop exchanging accounts.
The EULA stuff... well that's just rules anet enforces. As long as you have the right text stating what you are selling and who's property it is in your ebay listing, Ebay will not remove your auction.
hopefully this will help you in getting banned ~hehe
My conspiracy on the bonus missions were to get people to spend money on the gw store to make them tie their account to a plaync account. Thinking that this would make account changes more difficult than it's worth, people would stop exchanging accounts.
The EULA stuff... well that's just rules anet enforces. As long as you have the right text stating what you are selling and who's property it is in your ebay listing, Ebay will not remove your auction.
hopefully this will help you in getting banned ~hehe
Hodgie
You can, but you can bet your lucky socks that you will get banned.
majikmajikmajik
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Originally Posted by Ctb
Highly questionable interpretation. Ownership rights trump EULAs, that was already hashed out in a case brought by Adobe against someone who purchased and then resold a number of Adobe products. It's a very small step to then take the argument to "I uninstalled the software, negating the license's full effect, and then transferred the entire thing to someone else".
Not cut and dry at all. As stated in another thread, this is not a hard and fast fact. EULAs have been the subject of a number of competing interpretations in different districts and in different circumstances. Their enforceability is still highly suspect. That's their argument, but it's never actually been tested as far as I know. That's not the same thing. You can transfer the license, in full, from one computer to another, which is what selling your account would be, effectively. Microsoft has terms against that in their OEM agreements, but I don't know if they've ever tried to enforce them and had it tested in court (since it's mostly meant to prevent sleazy builders from using a single OEM disc on multiple machines). No, it wouldn't. Not even close. One is a felony: theft (and fraud from the other end of the transaction), the other is infringement on IP. One is criminal, the other is not. That's a terrible analogy. Also, here's an EFF page on "Unconscionability" in click wrap licensing that's particularly interesting: Unconscionability Contract law and contracts are not nearly as hard and fast as most people assume them to be. Many, MANY contracts that we're subject to in our daily lives very likely on continue to exist because nobody has yet had a good enough reason, or the resources necessary, to challenge them. |
tmakinen
About the enforceability of the EULA and such things ...
GW is an online game. You buy the client and get a permit to access data on ANet's servers. All character and item data are on those servers which are private property that you are allowed to enter at the sole discretion of ANet. Think about your purchase as an entrance fee to an amusement park or a night club. It is not public space, and you have no right to be there other than with a permission given by the owner of the property. The owner can make his own rules of conduct and revoke the permission if people do not observe those rules. You have the choice of obeying, or not using the service in the first place. This is as it should be, so live with it
GW is an online game. You buy the client and get a permit to access data on ANet's servers. All character and item data are on those servers which are private property that you are allowed to enter at the sole discretion of ANet. Think about your purchase as an entrance fee to an amusement park or a night club. It is not public space, and you have no right to be there other than with a permission given by the owner of the property. The owner can make his own rules of conduct and revoke the permission if people do not observe those rules. You have the choice of obeying, or not using the service in the first place. This is as it should be, so live with it
Phaern Majes
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Originally Posted by Hodgie
You can, but you can bet your lucky socks that you will get banned.
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EULA may or may not hold up in court, as several have said it depends on the court and the judge really. At worst it would be a civil suit, you getting sued, nothing criminal. But really Anet isn't going to waste money on court fees and what not to sue someone for selling one account. Now if you were selling a few hundred accounts or more than who knows. And lastly WoW does have a section in its EULA stating you can't sell accounts, gold, or items. I just read their EULA last night to see what it said specifically about addons. Whether they enforce it or not I don't know, as stated on the first page it would hurt them more than help them to ban accounts that were sold.
Ravious
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Originally Posted by Ctb
As stated in another thread, this is not a hard and fast fact. EULAs have been the subject of a number of competing interpretations in different districts and in different circumstances. Their enforceability is still highly suspect.
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Quote:
| Contract law and contracts are not nearly as hard and fast as most people assume them to be. Many, MANY contracts that we're subject to in our daily lives very likely on continue to exist because nobody has yet had a good enough reason, or the resources necessary, to challenge them. |
Back to OP, you can sell it. The license to use A.Net's resources to play GW is property, and the law really doesn't like property that is unalienable (laymen's terms: not allowed to be given/transferred/sold/etc.). However, A.Net has the power to simply terminate the account prior to any court ruling.... or really even a legal action.
imnotyourmother
Please delete this thread.
I wanted to have some sort of good stuff you explain how much better guild wars is so that I could convince my friends to buy it and join my guild.
This is not what I expected. I was saying to my friends that gw is free and free is always better.. Isn't it?
I wanted to have some sort of good stuff you explain how much better guild wars is so that I could convince my friends to buy it and join my guild.
This is not what I expected. I was saying to my friends that gw is free and free is always better.. Isn't it?
Inde
I believe his question was answered... repeatedly. Closed.