CoF run - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Tommy's

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2006

[Bone]

Mo/

27 May 2008 at 18:49 - 1

This question is refering to the Cathadrals of Flames run, done with dual monk team, as you all probably know

Now i havent ran CoF for a while and now getting started again. But now my hero keeps dieing from reversal of dmg. The main problem is that signet of devotion isnt healing enough.

Does this mean that now I need to take a group to run, who heals my smiter and takes LOD? Or is there an other alternetive??

Thnx in advance

Mr. Undisclosed

I phail

Join Date: Mar 2007

Phailville

D/

27 May 2008 at 18:53 - 2

Theres a divine favor signet that heroes can use but its not enough, you'll need a group or a 3rd hero to heal.

Thats why rit 600/smite >monk 600/smite

Shin Kell

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2006

Knights of the Obsidian Scepter [OS]

R/Rt

27 May 2008 at 18:58 - 3

Making sure you put on Retribution on before Holy Wrath helps reduce the damage taken from Reversal of Damage. Personally I run a mesmer smiter with Illusion of Weakness and have had no problems with the damage.

Larcen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2007

Southern Maryland

Midnight Oasis

27 May 2008 at 19:09 - 4

Eh, I (monk 1) run with a Monk Hero and use a basic smite bar but go /W secondary for Heal Sig. I forget the attribute split between Tactics and DF, but Heal Sig heals for 98, and Devotion for whatever is left. 15 Smite, 15 Protection, rest in Tactics and DF. Those two alone, (Maybe even no DF and everything left in tactics might be enough, never tried it) are plenty to do CoF along w/ hero. I agro multiple groups with multiple Banshee with no problem.

Tommy's

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2006

[Bone]

Mo/

28 May 2008 at 16:54 - 5

But where do I leave my BiP then?? Dont get how I should get more energy with a Me/Mo or Mo/W. Ofcourse I can get rid of enchants everytime but that slows the run down badly.

Larcen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2007

Southern Maryland

Midnight Oasis

28 May 2008 at 17:17 - 6

With Runes, and my staff (Sadi's Benediction) I have around 59 energy. I cast slowly at first so that my energy is close to full once I have my three enchantments on me. Then, once everything starts, I rarely ever, ever, not have enough energy to enter the next group. And, there is no downtime (except maybe Spell Breaker recharging) between groups. I plow through sometimes without spell breaker, depending on the type of monsters in the next group. Therefore, I don't use Blood is power or Blood ritual. If you like, add me to your friends list, and I'll take you along to see next time I play.

IGN: Norak Helmetdelver

Dae GW

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

The Netherlands, Noord Holland, Amstelveen

Mo/

28 May 2008 at 17:47 - 7

[build=Mesmer Smiter;OQNDATwNPCV8R+IkIPAB3NZC]

[build=600HP With Mesmer;OwUTMw3C3pecX1iRkNdEQfAQAA]

Yes i know, you seek a duo monk bulid, but when you give Gwen ( or another mesmer hero ) that build with a superior illusion magic you can duo whole CoF. And you don't need a third hero.

Dae

BTW, you don't need BiP, +2 energy is enough.

Tommy's

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2006

[Bone]

Mo/

29 May 2008 at 08:10 - 8

Ok when I look at your build Dae, I see illusion of weakness which costs 10 energy. I understand you can cast it before entering battle. But if it needs to be triggered it fails, cause wrath drains your energy. Otherwise I could aswell use ZB and br instead of BiP.

I like the idea of healing signet, will try that or check out your run.

Oh and another problem seems to be: I get 41 dmg from retribution instead of 22 dmg like wiki says. I do have 60AL. How can this come??

Dae GW

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

The Netherlands, Noord Holland, Amstelveen

Mo/

29 May 2008 at 14:29 - 9

[illusion of weakness]

I don't think you understand that skill. When you enter the area, your smiter will cast it imediatly, and THERES the energy cost.
When it's triggered it dousn't cost any energy.

Just let him cast Signet of illusions, retri, hw, vital blessing and balthazars spirit ( no need to have sig of illusions when casting balth! ).

Incandecree

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

Archons of Elona

Mo/

29 May 2008 at 19:44 - 10

Remember that smiting is double damage. So the max damage from Retribution coming back at the smiter is 42 (unless using something to boost smiting above 16).

If I have someone with me and I know that they can heal the smiter I don't worry about anything on the smiter to heal themself. Although I like Dae's idea about putting Illusion of Weakness on the smiter for emergency backup. Since I have two open slots on the smiter I will try that.

If I know that no one is going to heal the smiter I like running an Mo/W smiter with Heal Sig. At 6 tactics I believe Heal Sig heals for 104. The -40 armor means nothing considering if they do take damage it is armor ignoring anyways.

I do have one thing that Dae may want to try in his build. Instead of Dismiss Condition put in Air of Superiority. When something dies a random chance to recharge all your skills, remove conditions, heal you for 50 or give you 5 energy is always helpful.

As for BiP, I have never needed a BiP in CoF. Those that need the BiP usually fall into 2 categories (usually not everyone): 1. Overcasting of Spirit Bond to try and keep Spirit Bond up 100% of the time, which is not needed; or 2: they are running 3 maintained enchantments on the 600. Usually if someone is running 3 enchantments on the 600 it means they have Life Attunement somewhere on the 2 skill bars. Life Attunement is a waste because Spirit Bond can heal the 600 to full heal in 7 hits or less whereas with Life Attunement it is 3 hits. I don't feel the extra -1 energy regen is worth all that.

Oh yeah, about the armor. In my experience you should have at least the chest and legs as 15AL. Many will say have all of your armor as 15AL. Well I like to run my 600 with chaos gloves and blindfold (I don't want her to see what is hitting her)

joshuarodger

Unbanned

Join Date: Jan 2008

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] -- IGN: Swirly

Mo/

29 May 2008 at 19:57 - 11

the absolute easiest way to solve this problem is to use a melee weapon of enchanting and auto-attack the banshees. the best weapon to use is a scythe. i use droks reaper and ogden NEVER dies. i do this run all the time without paying customers and have never had a problem with him dying, except for the run through the flame traps. when you auto attack, the 1 dmg you are doing to the banshees is RoD'ed back to you rather than retribution back to the smiter. it makes this run a cakewalk and you don't have to have paying customers do any work at all. i still take sig of devo on ogden because he will take dmg sometimes, but this is a foolproof method of keeping him alive.

Larcen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2007

Southern Maryland

Midnight Oasis

29 May 2008 at 19:59 - 12

Using my tactic (No pun intended) I never look at my smiter, or bar, unless re-flagging him when moving forward. To each their own I suppose.

Incandecree

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

Archons of Elona

Mo/

29 May 2008 at 20:15 - 13

I used to use a sword or axe and an offhand. I have since switched to a prot staff (with holy damage). Your 1 damage has just turned to 20-30 damage against an undead, or 7-10 on Charr. If you customize it that turns the 20-30 to 30-40. That adds up after awhile.

As for Signet of Devotion that actually requires something spec'd into Divine Favor and even at 12 DF that still is only @ 80 heal every 5 seconds vs 6 in tactics and a heal of 104 every 4 seconds. That also adds up. Especially when pulling two groups at a time. The worst case scenario I have encountered was two groups and 7 banshees in total. That is alot of damage coming at the smiter and in the course of 20 seconds with Sig of Devotion you have healed for @ 240 (need to include the 1s activation time of the Sig) versus @ 400 with Healing Sig.

"I am the Strongest" is an interesting skill with a customized prot staff. does 70-80 damage per wanding on an undead. I still like to run with AoS because there is more upside to what it can do instead of extra damage.

joshuarodger

Unbanned

Join Date: Jan 2008

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] -- IGN: Swirly

Mo/

29 May 2008 at 23:28 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incandecree

I used to use a sword or axe and an offhand. I have since switched to a prot staff (with holy damage). Your 1 damage has just turned to 20-30 damage against an undead, or 7-10 on Charr. If you customize it that turns the 20-30 to 30-40. That adds up after awhile.

As for Signet of Devotion that actually requires something spec'd into Divine Favor and even at 12 DF that still is only @ 80 heal every 5 seconds vs 6 in tactics and a heal of 104 every 4 seconds. That also adds up. Especially when pulling two groups at a time. The worst case scenario I have encountered was two groups and 7 banshees in total. That is alot of damage coming at the smiter and in the course of 20 seconds with Sig of Devotion you have healed for @ 240 (need to include the 1s activation time of the Sig) versus @ 400 with Healing Sig.

"I am the Strongest" is an interesting skill with a customized prot staff. does 70-80 damage per wanding on an undead. I still like to run with AoS because there is more upside to what it can do instead of extra damage. i don't know, i figure they die fast enough as it is. there aren't very many groups in that dungeon that last more than about 10-15 seconds to kill. those that i can think of are the two charr boss groups in which RoD isn't a factor at all. i think ogden's DF is set at 7. whatever it is it's, 12-10-x for his attributes and the only time i've seen him at 50% health or lower is when i aggro 2 groups with 7 banshees as you stated above.

i'm not saying that my way is better than yours necessarily, but this way i barely have to change anything at all and still get to keep my BiP just in case i do need it. i also don't really think the extra 30-40 damage from wanding will dramatically decrease the time of the run since you can only wand one enemy at a time anyway and as i said earlier most mobs die within 10-15 seconds, as is.

Mr. Undisclosed

I phail

Join Date: Mar 2007

Phailville

D/

30 May 2008 at 00:47 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dae GW

[build=Mesmer Smiter;OQNDATwNPCV8R+IkIPAB3NZC]

[build=600HP With Mesmer;OwUTMw3C3pecX1iRkNdEQfAQAA]

Yes i know, you seek a duo monk bulid, but when you give Gwen ( or another mesmer hero ) that build with a superior illusion magic you can duo whole CoF. And you don't need a third hero.

Dae

BTW, you don't need BiP, +2 energy is enough. gg, I forgot the mes smiter build. Not seen as often but far more effective then a monk smiter.

Incandecree

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

Archons of Elona

Mo/

30 May 2008 at 00:54 - 16

It may not seem alot but it does add up especially against those Charr warriors that like to "spam" their Heal Sig. Also, I wand the Charr necros when the warriors are beating on me. With a sword they will last longer than SpellBreaker lasts. Typically with a staff they die right before SpellBreaker goes down.

Now you said that you have 12-10-x. I don't have a referent to see how much health you initially start with. Since I run with a mix of energy and health runs (more energy than health), I start with 686 health. When I get to the 10% moral boost I am at 734. At 16 smiting and at 740 health you are getting the maximum damage out of Retribution and Holy Wrath. I get just less than that at 73 (21+52). I know alot of people like to run full survivor runes but to me energy is life for the 600.

For the run time maybe it doesn't make the run faster but it certainly seems like it. My best times for clearing the levels including the hiddens is: 8 minutes for level 1 (average is 10 minutes); 10 minutes level 2 (average is 12) and 13 minutes for level 3 (average is 16 minutes).

Incandecree

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

Archons of Elona

Mo/

30 May 2008 at 01:09 - 17

I like the mesmer smiter because i can get the most out of the smiting and the prot enchantments at 16 because of Sig of Illusions. I have been running a mesmer smiter for CoF for a very long time. Since I run around and 600 many places I am lazy to change the smiter. I have a hard enough time remembering to change the 600 build to suit the zone I am going into.

joshuarodger

Unbanned

Join Date: Jan 2008

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] -- IGN: Swirly

Mo/

30 May 2008 at 02:10 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incandecree

It may not seem alot but it does add up especially against those Charr warriors that like to "spam" their Heal Sig. Also, I wand the Charr necros when the warriors are beating on me. With a sword they will last longer than SpellBreaker lasts. Typically with a staff they die right before SpellBreaker goes down.

Now you said that you have 12-10-x. I don't have a referent to see how much health you initially start with. Since I run with a mix of energy and health runs (more energy than health), I start with 686 health. When I get to the 10% moral boost I am at 734. At 16 smiting and at 740 health you are getting the maximum damage out of Retribution and Holy Wrath. I get just less than that at 73 (21+52). I know alot of people like to run full survivor runes but to me energy is life for the 600.

For the run time maybe it doesn't make the run faster but it certainly seems like it. My best times for clearing the levels including the hiddens is: 8 minutes for level 1 (average is 10 minutes); 10 minutes level 2 (average is 12) and 13 minutes for level 3 (average is 16 minutes). i meant my smiter had an attribute spread of 12-10-x (just not sure what the x would be and don't really want to look it up.) SP-PP-DF. that's without runes, it's actually 16-13-x with runes. honestly i didn't even know there were necros in the charr groups because they are all dead before they have a chance to hit me with anything. other than the bosses, nothing is ever alive after my sb runs out with the charr groups. i do run a full survivor/vitae set of armor with a 20/20 PP offhand and enchanting weapon for one set and a scythe for when i face undead. this gives me more than enough health to get the most out of the smiting enchants. (sorry, i'm at work right now and can't give you exacts like you have done for me.) i never have energy problems at all because my hero does have bip and i use it right before SB.

lol i'm not really sure if we're arguing or what. there's more than one way to skin a cat, as they say. your way works for you, mine for me. i was just trying to give the OP an idea so he didn't have to change anything about his build except maybe his weapon set. my times aren't quite as fast as yours, but i get through CoF in about 45 minutes. btw a 31 minute run? screenie or it didn't happen

. lol

Mr. Undisclosed

I phail

Join Date: Mar 2007

Phailville

D/

30 May 2008 at 04:53 - 19

Tbh you should never have to wand anything it should all go boom without it.