Do you know who could benefiet from the skill spilt...? Mesmers.
Mesmer in Need
Monsters are a lot different then other players. Things like shutdown and e-denial are good in pvp, but don't do a great deal in pve. Hexes like backfire and empathy are obsolete compared to spells like ss, as they only effect 1 person. Spells like pre nerf hex eater vortex and CoP are amazing. Mesmers have these great skills that effect many enemies at once, but these have long recharges, and if these were buffed for pve, they could more more useful.
hoyce
To tell the truth Mesmers are only classified as being "bad" because:
1. It is way easier to play a different profession, ex. Elementalist, and blow everything up without thought.
2. The classical stereotyping " oh Mes you noob!"
All in all it is way easier to play other classes without thought than to use your brain and play a Mesmer correctly. Like some one noted before Mesmers can deal, no only large amounts of spike damage, but also incapacitate different professions and deal armor ignoring spikes. Without writing anymore of topic, it would be nice to improve overall Mesmer PvE capability, I always thought we were missing an overpowered elite, not that there’s anything wrong with overpowered elites.
1. It is way easier to play a different profession, ex. Elementalist, and blow everything up without thought.
2. The classical stereotyping " oh Mes you noob!"
All in all it is way easier to play other classes without thought than to use your brain and play a Mesmer correctly. Like some one noted before Mesmers can deal, no only large amounts of spike damage, but also incapacitate different professions and deal armor ignoring spikes. Without writing anymore of topic, it would be nice to improve overall Mesmer PvE capability, I always thought we were missing an overpowered elite, not that there’s anything wrong with overpowered elites.
Jade
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Avarre
I think it's a more likely explanation you have no idea how other classes are played well, and thus assume you're being more effective than you are.
PS: Ele AoEDoTs are terrible, and warriors have the best DPS in the game. |
Funny part is, I have one of each profession to play. Hell I even have 2 warriors and 2 ele's. I would say that I'm best at playing mesmer and necromancer. I'm not so good at ritualist, paragon and sin. Sorta so-so with a ranger, derv, and monk.
But I'd say that I'm pretty good at warrior and ele, but then again, who isn't? Best DPS in the game? Sure if that's what you go for. Takes skill to play a wammo or ele? Maybe if you consider "skill" being able to push 1,2,3 and 4 on yur skill bar and cycle thru opponents.
I even found a pic that praises your superior GW knowledge. Thank you for making me see the error of my ways.
Clarissa F
"Best dps in the game? Sure, if that's what you go for..."
I heard somewhere that good DPS pressures better and kills stuff faster.
I also read a lot about Guild Wars being a team game. Any coincidence GvG is the pinnacle of PvP? I think Avarre's point was it's a team game, and you were able to select and cast better, maybe, because the ele was giving out good AoE damage, spikes and/or wards, the monk was prot'ing like he should, and the warrior was wreaking havok on the back line. You helped them do their job better, they helped you do yours.
Mesmers are awesome for PvP. Dealing with human reaction times and human frustrations gives a great advantage. In Pve, yes, mesmers are good, but don't try to tell me you would rather have one on your team than an imbagon, ele, godmode warrior or monk. Compared to what other professions can do, sometimes with a mesmer's own skills, they are just good. Interrupt stinks compared to the reaction times of AI, and a ranger can do it better(play them more and you'll see). Hexes can be done better with a necro, with the advantage of a better energy regeneration, because in PvE, there's always shit dying. AoE damage? I heard AI likes to scatter, and, off the top of my head, Rodgort's Invocation, SH, SF, SS, Insidious Parasite, Splinter weapon, et al say hi to Cry of Pain and E-Surge.
I do like the clip. =)
I heard somewhere that good DPS pressures better and kills stuff faster.
I also read a lot about Guild Wars being a team game. Any coincidence GvG is the pinnacle of PvP? I think Avarre's point was it's a team game, and you were able to select and cast better, maybe, because the ele was giving out good AoE damage, spikes and/or wards, the monk was prot'ing like he should, and the warrior was wreaking havok on the back line. You helped them do their job better, they helped you do yours.
Mesmers are awesome for PvP. Dealing with human reaction times and human frustrations gives a great advantage. In Pve, yes, mesmers are good, but don't try to tell me you would rather have one on your team than an imbagon, ele, godmode warrior or monk. Compared to what other professions can do, sometimes with a mesmer's own skills, they are just good. Interrupt stinks compared to the reaction times of AI, and a ranger can do it better(play them more and you'll see). Hexes can be done better with a necro, with the advantage of a better energy regeneration, because in PvE, there's always shit dying. AoE damage? I heard AI likes to scatter, and, off the top of my head, Rodgort's Invocation, SH, SF, SS, Insidious Parasite, Splinter weapon, et al say hi to Cry of Pain and E-Surge.
I do like the clip. =)
Skye Marin
A lot of Mesmer shortcomings in PvE are remedied by using Assassin's Promise, but that takes up an Elite slot, and some skills just aren't fixed with the skill. Also remember that the PvE-PvP split will only be implemented on a handful of skills, because each takes effort to implement. New skills and skill functionality aren't going to be added either. Energy denial in PvE isn't viable, because all monsters have more regen pips and larger energy pools than players, and in hard mode the effect is amplified.
Here's my take:
I think those changes would be really fun for Mesmers, and not insanely unfair compared to other classes abilities in PvE.
Here's my take:
Quote:
|
Clumsiness / Wandering Eye - reduce recharge to 5 Energy Burn / Energy Surge / Ineptitude - reduce recharge to 10 Shatter Enchantment / Shatter Hex - reduce cost to 10, reduce recharge to 10 Hex Eater Vortex - reduce recharge to 8, increase damage to 30..126 Energy Drain - Increase energy lost on foe to 2..15 Aneurysm - Increase damage per energy restored to 1..8 damage Signet of Illusions - Increase number of skill effected to 1..10 |
Jade
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Clarissa F
"Best dps in the game? Sure, if that's what you go for..."
I heard somewhere that good DPS pressures better and kills stuff faster. I also read a lot about Guild Wars being a team game. Any coincidence GvG is the pinnacle of PvP? I think Avarre's point was it's a team game, and you were able to select and cast better, maybe, because the ele was giving out good AoE damage, spikes and/or wards, the monk was prot'ing like he should, and the warrior was wreaking havok on the back line. You helped them do their job better, they helped you do yours. Mesmers are awesome for PvP. Dealing with human reaction times and human frustrations gives a great advantage. In Pve, yes, mesmers are good, but don't try to tell me you would rather have one on your team than an imbagon, ele, godmode warrior or monk. Compared to what other professions can do, sometimes with a mesmer's own skills, they are just good. Interrupt stinks compared to the reaction times of AI, and a ranger can do it better(play them more and you'll see). Hexes can be done better with a necro, with the advantage of a better energy regeneration, because in PvE, there's always shit dying. AoE damage? I heard AI likes to scatter, and, off the top of my head, Rodgort's Invocation, SH, SF, SS, Insidious Parasite, Splinter weapon, et al say hi to Cry of Pain and E-Surge. I do like the clip. =) |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Avarre
I think it's a more likely explanation you have no idea how other classes are played well, and thus assume you're being more effective than you are.
|
Red Sonya
Quote:
| Mesmers should be a viable and desirable PvE class, |
Doubt Anet is gonna do that but it would be popular if they did.Quote:
| and warriors have the best DPS in the game. |
Seef II
...which isn't a problem in PvE.
I just want the 5..25 second, 50% Mantra of Recovery back. Oh and HEV please.
I just want the 5..25 second, 50% Mantra of Recovery back. Oh and HEV please.
fenix
Meh, just buff [Spiritual Pain], [Mantra of Recovery] and [Hex Eater Vortex] and be done with it.
GourangaPizza
Have you tried playing or using a hero as a Me/Rt specced in Dom and Channeling? They speed up killings tremendously and faster than a SS N/Rt could. Not to mention, they make cheap bosses like Mobrin fall easily with just a little tweak to their builds.
bhavv
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by fenix
Meh, just buff [Spiritual Pain], [Mantra of Recovery] and [Hex Eater Vortex] and be done with it.
|
Gargle Blaster
one of the main problems with mesmer recharge times is that they are balanced with [mantra of recovery] in mind. I remember a skill change a while back where they buffed mantra and extended the recharg times of about 5 other skills.
Fast casting should be buffed to somthing like: for each rank in this attribute decreases the castiting and activation times of ALL SKILLS by 6%.
edit: i changed 5% (its already about 5%[4.73%]) to 6%
Fast casting should be buffed to somthing like: for each rank in this attribute decreases the castiting and activation times of ALL SKILLS by 6%.
edit: i changed 5% (its already about 5%[4.73%]) to 6%
GourangaPizza
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster
one of the main problems with mesmer recharge times is that they are balanced with [mantra of recovery]. I remember a skill change a while back where they buffed mantra and extended the recharg times of about 5 other skills.
Fast casting should be buffed to somthing like: for each rank in this attribute decreases the castiting and activation times of ALL SKILLS by 5%. |
Gargle Blaster
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by GourangaPizza
That will give more QQ. 5% is too much, "all skills" makes it even indomitable. If we were to go by your standing, it go along the lines like: "At Fast Casting rank 3 and above all spells recharge time are reduced by 1%, rank 6: 2%, rank 9: 3%"
|
Expertise is still more effective b/c energy cost is more important than casting time and there are more skills than there are spells.
Abedeus
Imo - decreased casting of all non-attack skills by 3x Fast Casting. Why? It would mean skills with like 1 second (penetrating shot for instance) would have, like, 36% faster activation. It's like a perma-bit-buffed-Flail with no downsides. Well, you have to be mesmer, but still... And normal attacks would be megabuffed too.
Gargle Blaster
exactly! a new use for a mesmer... armor limitations still balance things out.
MithranArkanere
Mesmers, and water and air elementalists, and smitters, and beast masters, and...
Kemal X
I have played with my mesmer for.. 16 months or so by now, and I really don't think they suck at PvE, or need buff. Well, maybe my all-time favourite Spiritual Pain could be changed back to old, loved it ^^
upier
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jade
I dunno about you, but I read that as him saying that I "have no idea how other classes are played well." I simply disagreed with what he said. Okay, maybe not simply.
|
Because unlimited energy on a caster IS as easy as it gets.
(I am not stating that playing a mesmer is rocket science - I am just saying that playing a necro is as far from it as it can be in GW!)
gremlin
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by upier
Either something went really really REALLY wrong on your necro if you found the mesmer to be easier to play OR you had gotten insanely better from playing the necro and that's why you considered that the mesmer was so easy.
Because unlimited energy on a caster IS as easy as it gets. (I am not stating that playing a mesmer is rocket science - I am just saying that playing a necro is as far from it as it can be in GW!) |
Some truth in that.
I played mesmer through prophesies and was ok till I got to Droks where I began to struggle.
Took a break and played other classes mainly Necro but also ranger and ele.
Some time after Factions came out I got back into Mesmer and found the Southern Shiverpeaks missions a whole lot easier.
Maybe it was a few new skills but I guess the fact I know a lot more about the game and team play also had an effect.
I still don't have the knack of blitzing all of pve with a mesmer but I do still like them and wish there was a mesmer skill rethink on the horizon.
Jade
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by gremlin
Some truth in that.
I played mesmer through prophesies and was ok till I got to Droks where I began to struggle. Took a break and played other classes mainly Necro but also ranger and ele. Some time after Factions came out I got back into Mesmer and found the Southern Shiverpeaks missions a whole lot easier. Maybe it was a few new skills but I guess the fact I know a lot more about the game and team play also had an effect. I still don't have the knack of blitzing all of pve with a mesmer but I do still like them and wish there was a mesmer skill rethink on the horizon. |
I did manage to beat them to a few inturrupts though. englitdaudelin
I definitely feel that playing a couple of other classes has helped me figure out the mesmer--and playing the mesmer has helped me learn a bit more about the game.
It's a class that takes some getting used to--it seems to require active energy management, and I haven't found a GREAT bar that just uses one attribute line...it seems to take a little bit of everything.
It's a class that takes some getting used to--it seems to require active energy management, and I haven't found a GREAT bar that just uses one attribute line...it seems to take a little bit of everything.
GourangaPizza
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster
im not sure what you mean. lets compair this to...
Expertise is still more effective b/c energy cost is more important than casting time and there are more skills than there are spells. |
Angels Guidance
Throw Assassins promise on your bar with empathy, backfire, assassin support, pain inverter and such, then say mesmers are underpowered or need changing... I'd honestly say though that a few elites could use an update, but nothing that wouldnt be worthwhile doing as a general update... Ahh, I ramble
kostolomac
There are some skills imo that could use a change:
[Calculated Risk] longer duration
[Visions of Regret] less damage , but triggers on every attack skill (something like backfire for martial classes).
[Aneurysm] more dmg per energy (5 at 15 dom)
[Chaos Storm] 20 damage at 15 dom
[Clumsiness] lower cost
[Empathy] 20 sec at 15 dom
[Ether Lord] don't lose all energy
[Fragility] also triggers when reaplied (could have good synergy with [Extend Conditions])
[Hex Eater Vortex] restore to old numbers
[Ineptitude] lower recharge
[Mantra of Recovery] restore to old numbers
[Power Flux] you get the energy degen as more regen
[Recurring Insecurity] 4 degen at 15 illusion
[Shame] reduce recharge to 25
[Guilt] reduce recharge to 20
[Spiritual Pain] restore to old numbers
[Calculated Risk] longer duration
[Visions of Regret] less damage , but triggers on every attack skill (something like backfire for martial classes).
[Aneurysm] more dmg per energy (5 at 15 dom)
[Chaos Storm] 20 damage at 15 dom
[Clumsiness] lower cost
[Empathy] 20 sec at 15 dom
[Ether Lord] don't lose all energy
[Fragility] also triggers when reaplied (could have good synergy with [Extend Conditions])
[Hex Eater Vortex] restore to old numbers
[Ineptitude] lower recharge
[Mantra of Recovery] restore to old numbers
[Power Flux] you get the energy degen as more regen
[Recurring Insecurity] 4 degen at 15 illusion
[Shame] reduce recharge to 25
[Guilt] reduce recharge to 20
[Spiritual Pain] restore to old numbers
Leslie
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by kostolomac
There are some skills imo that could use a change:
[Calculated Risk] longer duration [Visions of Regret] less damage , but triggers on every attack skill (something like backfire for martial classes). [Aneurysm] more dmg per energy (5 at 15 dom) [Chaos Storm] 20 damage at 15 dom [Clumsiness] lower cost [Empathy] 20 sec at 15 dom [Ether Lord] don't lose all energy [Fragility] also triggers when reaplied (could have good synergy with [Extend Conditions]) [Hex Eater Vortex] restore to old numbers [Ineptitude] lower recharge [Mantra of Recovery] restore to old numbers [Power Flux] you get the energy degen as more regen [Recurring Insecurity] 4 degen at 15 illusion [Shame] reduce recharge to 25 [Guilt] reduce recharge to 20 [Spiritual Pain] restore to old numbers |
Gargle Blaster
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by GourangaPizza
They changed it to Ranger skills only and touches. Can you imagine if FC is buffed to your suggestions, mesmers can almost be casting non-stop with little downtime due to the glyphs and inspiration spells' fast recharge. They are fine as it is. There are worse professions out there that need some nerfing before mesmer comes in.
|
-Lotus-
mesmers DO NOT need a skills buff. their skills are great, and this is why they are one of the most common secondary professions in the game. the problem is their primary attribute. casting skills fast is only useful when you want to shutdown a foe by putting down alot of hexes quickly, its not useful when you want to destroy groups. theur primary attribute needs a change for PvE.
mafia cyborg
mesmers are penalized by not having many aoe skills....and having their primarry nullified by AIs super lightening reflexes.
if anet put more thought into their mob pouplation and AI instad of massing mobs upon mobs with dumb builds.... mesmer would have their place.
instead of having 25 mobs in one area they could replace them with smaller balanced mob groups (from 4 to 8) with good builds.
tweaking skills to accomodate the poor AI and mob population is not the way.
if mobs detected and avoided traps....would trapping be good? think about it...
if anet put more thought into their mob pouplation and AI instad of massing mobs upon mobs with dumb builds.... mesmer would have their place.
instead of having 25 mobs in one area they could replace them with smaller balanced mob groups (from 4 to 8) with good builds.
tweaking skills to accomodate the poor AI and mob population is not the way.
if mobs detected and avoided traps....would trapping be good? think about it...