Koss vs. Melonni
chesterocks7
ok, so i now have both koss and melonni fully decked out with awesome equipment, included elite armor with full runes and insignias. they also both have pvxwiki builds (because i dont have the time or patience to find out what skills they use well or not). koss has the cleave build while melonni has the wounding strike build. so basically what i want to know is, when should i use one over the other? ive been using koss as my tank, and i decided to buff up melonni for doing the HM missions that require her. ive already seen that koss' build works well, haven't tested melonni's yet, but im assuming it will work well cause it received a "great" rating on pvxwiki. so when would you guys suggest using melonni over koss or vice versa?
Abedeus
None. Use 3 necroes, 3 elems or 3 paragons. Melee suck. Or use D/N order if you are melee/ranged.
Tyla
Melee heroes suck due to the AI, but if I had to take one I would go with Melonni as a Wounding Strike Spiker.
chesterocks7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abedeus
None. Use 3 necroes, 3 elems or 3 paragons. Melee suck. Or use D/N order if you are melee/ranged.
if youre not going to answer the question, dont waste your time posting.
chesterocks7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Melee heroes suck due to the AI, but if I had to take one I would go with Melonni as a Wounding Strike Spiker.
im not really bringing them for their smart use of skills, moreso as tanks. i was just wondering what situations a dervish hero would be more beneficial than a warrior.
RiKio
Always
[Avatar of Melandru]
12 caracteres
[Avatar of Melandru]
12 caracteres
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
im not really bringing them for their smart use of skills, moreso as tanks. i was just wondering what situations a dervish hero would be more beneficial than a warrior.
Tanks...? Tanks are bad, damage dealers are good.
And Dervs basically have insane damage. Warriors also do, but Dervs have a 3 second on demand recharging deep wound skill and have the ability to hit 3 enemies to cause strong splash damage.
And Derv heroes can use their bar alot better I've found. Mainly because it's energy based though.
And Dervs basically have insane damage. Warriors also do, but Dervs have a 3 second on demand recharging deep wound skill and have the ability to hit 3 enemies to cause strong splash damage.
And Derv heroes can use their bar alot better I've found. Mainly because it's energy based though.
Stormlord Alex
Melonni is slightly less shit than Koss because she can play a D/N orders derv.
chesterocks7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Tanks...? Tanks are bad, damage dealers are good.
And Dervs basically have insane damage. Warriors also do, but Dervs have a 3 second on demand recharging deep wound skill and have the ability to hit 3 enemies to cause strong splash damage.
And Derv heroes can use their bar alot better I've found. Mainly because it's energy based though. obviously not soley as tanks. the cleave and wounding strike build both got "great" ratings, so they are dmg dealers. so far ive used them when i need a more reliable tank then minions.
thats good to know about the derv's ability compared to the warrior. ill have to test her out to see how much better she does than koss.
And Dervs basically have insane damage. Warriors also do, but Dervs have a 3 second on demand recharging deep wound skill and have the ability to hit 3 enemies to cause strong splash damage.
And Derv heroes can use their bar alot better I've found. Mainly because it's energy based though. obviously not soley as tanks. the cleave and wounding strike build both got "great" ratings, so they are dmg dealers. so far ive used them when i need a more reliable tank then minions.
thats good to know about the derv's ability compared to the warrior. ill have to test her out to see how much better she does than koss.
chesterocks7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Melonni is slightly less shit than Koss because she can play a D/N orders derv.
if i asked which one you think is better and why, this post might have actually been worth something.
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
obviously not soley as tanks. the cleave and wounding strike build both got "great" ratings, so they are dmg dealers. so far ive used them when i need a more reliable tank then minions.
Well Wounding Strike is currently the most powerful Derv build, and can be used quite brainlessly, so it gets it's medal.
Although, tanking is still bad. However, holding aggro isn't.
I wouldn't call PSpirit and Shield of Abs. tanking.
Although, tanking is still bad. However, holding aggro isn't.
I wouldn't call PSpirit and Shield of Abs. tanking.
Abedeus
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
if youre not going to answer the question, dont waste your time posting.
That's why I told you about D/N orders.
Btw, really don't trust melee AI. It really sucks. AoE scatter makes them useless, they often attack wrong target, sometimes aggro monsters when not supposed to...
Btw, really don't trust melee AI. It really sucks. AoE scatter makes them useless, they often attack wrong target, sometimes aggro monsters when not supposed to...
Squishy ftw
Melonni, just because of wounding strike.
Turtle222
Use melonni, spammable wound is better than cleave.
Darkside
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
if i asked which one you think is better and why, this post might have actually been worth something.
...yah and your post was? Oh wow this one isn't either isn't that fantastical!
Turbobusa
Melonni knows howto kill sh*t with wounding strike.
Koss only knows how to frensig.
Koss only knows how to frensig.
chesterocks7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside
...yah and your post was? Oh wow this one isn't either isn't that fantastical!
12 yr-old trolls ftw?
when you ask a question and someone tells you something that has nothing to do with the question, its not exactly the same as telling them that they werent very helpful.
when you ask a question and someone tells you something that has nothing to do with the question, its not exactly the same as telling them that they werent very helpful.
Darkside
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
12 yr-old trolls ftw?
when you ask a question and someone tells you something that has nothing to do with the question, its not exactly the same as telling them that they werent very helpful. Yah how stupid of Alex to tell you WHY Mel is better...because that is just completely off topic.
when you ask a question and someone tells you something that has nothing to do with the question, its not exactly the same as telling them that they werent very helpful. Yah how stupid of Alex to tell you WHY Mel is better...because that is just completely off topic.
chesterocks7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside
Yah how stupid of Alex to tell you WHY Mel is better...because that is just completely off topic.
actually yes, because i asked which situations each one is better for, not which one he thinks is better. his answer had nothing to do with what i asked.
chesterocks7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Although, tanking is still bad. However, holding aggro isn't.
i dont play melee classes, so i dont really understand the difference between tanking and holding aggro. isnt it pretty much the same thing?
Marverick
Holding aggro is just holding aggro, usually done by a melee char with high armor.
Tanking is when you devote your entire bar to staying alive under aggro, which is stupid because your Monks can easily do that if you can successfully keep aggro.
Tanking is when you devote your entire bar to staying alive under aggro, which is stupid because your Monks can easily do that if you can successfully keep aggro.
Kiluna
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
On-topic:
My vote goes for Melonni for everything that doesn't have Required: Koss.
If you don't want to know why my vote did go for Melonni, stop reading after next dot
. Simply because i don't find hero Warriors with adre attacks to be that effective, they have same wait time that sin h/h used to have between attacks. Or at least that's what i've heard, so i don't have really used him (or other war heros) anywhere where they aren't required. The only little i've observed the skill usage with sword build: Crippling Slash -> ~4 sec and then Gash.
And wounding strike is just way better than any warrior deep wound you can get (spammable with cover condition).
e:
Quote:
Holding aggro is just holding aggro, usually done by a melee char with high armor.
Tanking is when you devote your entire bar to staying alive under aggro, which is stupid because your Monks can easily do that if you can successfully keep aggro. Hmm well depends how you think it really...
Tanking = skillbar devoted for survival and in most of MMO's to keep aggro.
Holding aggro = tanks job, as if you are not holding the aggro, your whole skill bar is useless because noone attacks you.
So holding aggro = tanking? :P
And how wikipedia says it; In gaming jargon, a tank is a player or unit designated to protect weaker players or units in combat by drawing enemy attacks and absorbing damage.
drawing enemy attacks = holding aggro = tanking :P
Tanking is when you devote your entire bar to staying alive under aggro, which is stupid because your Monks can easily do that if you can successfully keep aggro. Hmm well depends how you think it really...
Tanking = skillbar devoted for survival and in most of MMO's to keep aggro.
Holding aggro = tanks job, as if you are not holding the aggro, your whole skill bar is useless because noone attacks you.
So holding aggro = tanking? :P
And how wikipedia says it; In gaming jargon, a tank is a player or unit designated to protect weaker players or units in combat by drawing enemy attacks and absorbing damage.
drawing enemy attacks = holding aggro = tanking :P
Darkside
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
actually yes, because i asked which situations each one is better for, not which one he thinks is better. his answer had nothing to do with what i asked.
Do you have reading comprehension issues? He said Koss is crap (So don't ever use him) and Mel is good using an Orders build. I don't see how that doesn't answer your question. More likely you don't like that answer because you wasted a bunch of money loading both of them up with "good gear".
Btw I think it's cute that you use Koss as your "tank". That's simply awesome.
Btw I think it's cute that you use Koss as your "tank". That's simply awesome.
chesterocks7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside
Do you have reading comprehension issues? He said Koss is crap (So don't ever use him) and Mel is good using an Orders build. I don't see how that doesn't answer your question. More likely you don't like that answer because you wasted a bunch of money loading both of them up with "good gear".
because its his opinion. i dont give shit if he thinks one is good and the other is useless. i did not ask for the opinion he gave me, so what he said is useless. get that through your f***ing thick skull. if he said that koss isnt useful in many situations that would be one thing, but all he said was that melonni is slightly less shit than koss because of a certain build she can run. thats great, i dont give a shit. has nothing to do with what i asked, so i think you are the one with comprehension issues, because i cant make it any clearer than that.
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
i dont play melee classes, so i dont really understand the difference between tanking and holding aggro. isnt it pretty much the same thing?
Tanking is devoing your bar to selfish defense with low fire power, and holding aggro is holding aggro.
Either can be done with any profession, and SoA + PS makes it possible easy.
Either can be done with any profession, and SoA + PS makes it possible easy.
Bowstring Badass
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
if youre not going to answer the question, dont waste your time posting.
He did answer the question. With an answer not what the OP wants.
He did answer the question. With an answer not what the OP wants.
chesterocks7
thank you guys for clearing that up.
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass
He did answer the question. With an answer not what the OP wants.
Yes, but if the OP knows what answer s/he wants then there is no point asking the question!
chesterocks7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass
He did answer the question. With an answer not what the OP wants.
i asked which situation each one is better for. he said don't use them because they suck. that's giving me a useless opinion, not answering the question. read some of the other replies if you want to find out what answering a question means.
god these boards are full of idiots.
god these boards are full of idiots.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
waffling
I'm sorry if it's not the answer you want, but it's right. Your builds (and heroes) are bad because melee AI is near enough useless.
This is not opinion, it is fact.
There are no situations where I'd ever bring Koss over Melonni because both fail hard at melee, whereas Melonni at least has a workable build that works with AI - the Arcane Zeal order derv.
If you want a physical hero, take a para.
This is not opinion, it is fact.
There are no situations where I'd ever bring Koss over Melonni because both fail hard at melee, whereas Melonni at least has a workable build that works with AI - the Arcane Zeal order derv.
If you want a physical hero, take a para.
chesterocks7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
I'm sorry if it's not the answer you want, but it's right. Your builds (and heroes) are bad because melee AI is near enough useless.
This is not opinion, it is fact.
There are no situations where I'd ever bring Koss over Melonni because both fail hard at melee, whereas Melonni at least has a workable build that works with AI - the Arcane Zeal order derv.
If you want a physical hero, take a para. yet there are plenty of other people who disagree with you, so you fail to show me how your opinion is actually fact. pvxwiki has a good amount of tested hero builds that received "great" and "good" ratings. they dedicate time solely to testing out those builds so i am going to take their word for it over yours unless you can somehow prove to me that your opinioin is more factual then their tested builds.
This is not opinion, it is fact.
There are no situations where I'd ever bring Koss over Melonni because both fail hard at melee, whereas Melonni at least has a workable build that works with AI - the Arcane Zeal order derv.
If you want a physical hero, take a para. yet there are plenty of other people who disagree with you, so you fail to show me how your opinion is actually fact. pvxwiki has a good amount of tested hero builds that received "great" and "good" ratings. they dedicate time solely to testing out those builds so i am going to take their word for it over yours unless you can somehow prove to me that your opinioin is more factual then their tested builds.
Kiluna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Tanking is devoing your bar to selfish defense with low fire power, and holding aggro is holding aggro.
Either can be done with any profession, and SoA + PS makes it possible easy. Sorry for the offtopic...
But i don't really see why "holding aggro is only holding aggro"...
As in the past 5-6 years i've played and tryed many different 100% free, with monthly free, beta, alpha etc. MMO's and tanking have always been same as holding aggro for me. Some games might require addition things for the tank to be effective, like gear with defensive stats or skills to mitigate damage taken or to help the monster keep the focus on you. But holding aggro is the main thing for the tank, as how you "tank" if nothing attacks you?
Tanking = Holding aggro = Tanking.
Either can be done with any profession, and SoA + PS makes it possible easy. Sorry for the offtopic...
But i don't really see why "holding aggro is only holding aggro"...
As in the past 5-6 years i've played and tryed many different 100% free, with monthly free, beta, alpha etc. MMO's and tanking have always been same as holding aggro for me. Some games might require addition things for the tank to be effective, like gear with defensive stats or skills to mitigate damage taken or to help the monster keep the focus on you. But holding aggro is the main thing for the tank, as how you "tank" if nothing attacks you?
Tanking = Holding aggro = Tanking.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
pvxwiki has a good amount of tested hero builds that received "great" and "good" ratings.
Just a quick check, but neither of the 'great' PvE Hero builds you use (the Cleaver and WS Derv) actually have any discussion on their effectiveness as hero bars.
It's more of a trend of good builds having the hero tag stuck on them as opposed to them being good hero-specific builds.
And I'd not bother with PvX either - people who think it's a good idea to waste a skill slot on [[conviction] are bad.
It's more of a trend of good builds having the hero tag stuck on them as opposed to them being good hero-specific builds.
And I'd not bother with PvX either - people who think it's a good idea to waste a skill slot on [[conviction] are bad.
chesterocks7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Just a quick check, but neither of the 'great' PvE Hero builds you use (the Cleaver and WS Derv) actually have any discussion on their effectiveness as hero bars.
It's more of a trend of good builds having the hero tag stuck on them as opposed to them being good hero-specific builds.
And I'd not bother with PvX either - people who think it's a good idea to waste a skill slot on [[conviction] are bad. well, ive used pvxwiki builds for most of my heros, and they all work very well, so unless i have a good reason not to, im going to keep using their builds. especially for classes that i dont play.
It's more of a trend of good builds having the hero tag stuck on them as opposed to them being good hero-specific builds.
And I'd not bother with PvX either - people who think it's a good idea to waste a skill slot on [[conviction] are bad. well, ive used pvxwiki builds for most of my heros, and they all work very well, so unless i have a good reason not to, im going to keep using their builds. especially for classes that i dont play.
Darkside
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
well, ive used pvxwiki builds for most of my heros, and they all work very well, so unless i have a good reason not to, im going to keep using their builds. especially for classes that i dont play.
Sounds good keep failing.
chesterocks7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside
Sounds good keep failing.
lol ok kid, you've tried to cause enough trouble for one day. why don't you get back to your anime or something. or better yet, go outside and exercise.
madmax0877
The builds you have chosen for those two heroes are perfect. So perfect in fact you should use both of them at the same time.
Washi
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
well, ive used pvxwiki builds for most of my heros, and they all work very well, so unless i have a good reason not to, im going to keep using their builds. especially for classes that i dont play.
You use pvx wiki builds which are mostly bad or average at best, and you don't want experienced player like Alex to tell you what's good and what's bad. I wonder.. Why the fk do you ask questions then? You wait for someone on your level to tell you what you wanna hear? Or you want someone good to tell you the truth?
You want to compare 2 melee heroes... Guess what they do the same thing, but one of them does it better. They have the same weaknesses it's fkin obvious they will both be average when there is no melee hate and they will both suck when there is melee hate present.... wtf do you wanna hear? Koss is better when he's hungry, and melloni kicks butt when she's drunk....
And you acuse everyone of being a kid when it's actually you who act childish.
You want to compare 2 melee heroes... Guess what they do the same thing, but one of them does it better. They have the same weaknesses it's fkin obvious they will both be average when there is no melee hate and they will both suck when there is melee hate present.... wtf do you wanna hear? Koss is better when he's hungry, and melloni kicks butt when she's drunk....
And you acuse everyone of being a kid when it's actually you who act childish.
-Lotus-
Im pretty sure that koss is the best choice, just make sure that you make frenzy the only skill on his bar. that way he will use it and it will make all the enemys attack him and he uses his magic to cancel it so you dont have to worry about him dieing, because 80al pretty much makes him invincable.
good luck!!
PS, try bring the other heroes with meteor shower and flare so they can kill all the mobs standing around koss.
good luck!!
PS, try bring the other heroes with meteor shower and flare so they can kill all the mobs standing around koss.
Trvth Jvstice
I never use mele heroes, but if I had to choose one over the other, I'd choose Koss with [[Eviscerate], [[Executioner's Strike], [[For great Justice], [[Flail], [[Enraging Charge], [[Lion's Comfort], [[Distracting Blow], and [[Resurrection Chant].
Also, I'm getting sick and tired of seeing the word Shit on this forum. I think it should be GoRed Engine-ed. If you have to rely on an expletive to get your point across - then you should work on your creative writing skills a bit.
Also, I'm getting sick and tired of seeing the word Shit on this forum. I think it should be GoRed Engine-ed. If you have to rely on an expletive to get your point across - then you should work on your creative writing skills a bit.