Preface: yes, basically an Ursan QQ thread, but not like you would expect.
This is actually something I've discussed on these boards before, but taken one step further.
At the time, I missed an important point.
Now I believe I've found common ground and perhaps even a solution.
Ursan makes players reliable, because it gives them a fixed and powerful bar.
Genius.
However, Ursan gives everyone the same fixed and powerful bar.
Boring.
So how do we make everyone happy?
Class-specific fixed bar PvE skills.
Give every class its own Ursan.
Powerful enough to challenge Ursan, yet keep your class identity.
Especially the less popular classes would benefit greatly.
At the click of a button, your skill bar is replaced entirely with a BMP-like mix of powerful PvE-only and PvP skills.
To illustrate,
a Mesmer becomes a real shutdown machine,
a Dervish becomes the proverbial grim reaper,
a Ritualist becomes a bottomless spirit spawning pool
and so forth for the more popular classes as well.
All this said and done, I do realise that no matter how powerful you make an unpopular class, there will always be prejudices and class discrimination.
And for those cases, there will still be Ursan.
Please discuss.
Should we have class-specific fixed bar PvE skills?
Lagg
fog_of_redoubt
maybe you can get a job at ANet.
Lhim
No.
Having UB is bad enough. Giving every class overpowered fixed bars specific for that class is kinda redundant imo. Just create your own good builds to play with.
Having UB is bad enough. Giving every class overpowered fixed bars specific for that class is kinda redundant imo. Just create your own good builds to play with.
Marverick
The point is to create something equally effective compared to Ursan to stop the monopoly of Ursan on the game.
While I would rather have Ursan toned down a bit, seeing as that will never happen, I'll /sign this one.
While I would rather have Ursan toned down a bit, seeing as that will never happen, I'll /sign this one.
Kaleban
I'd have to disagree, although I like your reasoning.
The problem is, if you make powerful "archetype" classes, those skillsets would be limited to certain functions, and you'd fall into the trap of, as in the case of DoA, only certain classes being picked.
That's why Ursan was genius of a sort, is that it generalized everyone, so that even those who played "unfavored" classes could now be picked and play in coop PvE again. Sure, it may not be how the class was meant (Ursan casters are funny) to be played, but it allows interaction and can be fun.
Really, there already are "definitive" power builds for most of the professions, and with a little adaptation and/or ingenuity, can be made workable anywhere. It simple remains with the players to make use of them, I don't think I'd want to play with people who only accept the spoonfed class types anyways, which is why I haven't touched Ursan except for story specific reasons.
The problem is, if you make powerful "archetype" classes, those skillsets would be limited to certain functions, and you'd fall into the trap of, as in the case of DoA, only certain classes being picked.
That's why Ursan was genius of a sort, is that it generalized everyone, so that even those who played "unfavored" classes could now be picked and play in coop PvE again. Sure, it may not be how the class was meant (Ursan casters are funny) to be played, but it allows interaction and can be fun.
Really, there already are "definitive" power builds for most of the professions, and with a little adaptation and/or ingenuity, can be made workable anywhere. It simple remains with the players to make use of them, I don't think I'd want to play with people who only accept the spoonfed class types anyways, which is why I haven't touched Ursan except for story specific reasons.
Lagg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by deank81
No.
Having UB is bad enough. Giving every class overpowered fixed bars specific for that class is kinda redundant imo. Just create your own good builds to play with. |
The keyword of a fixed bar, however, is reliability.
You cannot rely on everyone to have a good build.
Ursan solved this problem. But it solved it very narrowly.
What I've learned in these past few months is to stop worrying and love the b(e)ar.
The fixed bar can be taken so much further.
The Bonus Mission Pack and Costume Brawl both proved the success of fixed bars.
We're only talking about the logical next step here.
Kook~NBK~
/not signed.
The argument that people who don't like ursan is this : "It's WAYYYYYY Over powered." This suggestion does nothing to resolve that, it just adds another full set of WAYYYYYY overpowered "skill" bars to the mess. No thank you.
The argument that people who don't like ursan is this : "It's WAYYYYYY Over powered." This suggestion does nothing to resolve that, it just adds another full set of WAYYYYYY overpowered "skill" bars to the mess. No thank you.
Magikarp
"lets fix the games overpowered stuff, by not changing IT, but instead changing everything ELSE to overshadow it entirely with MORE overpowered skills!"
no.
no.
Lagg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Magikarp
"lets fix the games overpowered stuff, by not changing IT, but instead changing everything ELSE to overshadow it entirely with MORE overpowered skills!"
|
Otherwise, it would have been nerfed by now.
I'm willing to accept that. I even cheer for the fact that it has allowed many casual players to access places they could never have reached without it.
And I still stand by the fact that it can be taken further, if this is the way things are going.
Let's have fun with it and let stay "in character" all the while.
Koricen
Just because you give a person a fixed bar (even if it's an awesome one) it doesn't mean they will be able to use it. The average player, from my own experience entirely, is a moron. Ursan lets stupid players be good and good players be lazy.
SmokingHotImolation
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marverick
The point is to create something equally effective compared to Ursan to stop the monopoly of Ursan on the game.
While I would rather have Ursan toned down a bit, seeing as that will never happen, I'll /sign this one. |
GaaaaaH
Any mention of ursan will bring in the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahmbulance
On topic: if you combine this suggestion with ursan, then classes with a less favourable build could go usan, while the rest use their class bar.
I don't really like forcing people to use set builds though, so this would need to be monster skills not just d-slash warrior, for example.
On topic: if you combine this suggestion with ursan, then classes with a less favourable build could go usan, while the rest use their class bar.
I don't really like forcing people to use set builds though, so this would need to be monster skills not just d-slash warrior, for example.
The Meth
No.
12 chars
12 chars
mrmango
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fog_of_redoubt
maybe you can get a job at ANet.
|
+1+1+1
Icy The Mage
go read the skill descriptions of the other two blessings.
I Is Special
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kaleban
I'd have to disagree, although I like your reasoning.
The problem is, if you make powerful "archetype" classes, those skillsets would be limited to certain functions, and you'd fall into the trap of, as in the case of DoA, only certain classes being picked. That's why Ursan was genius of a sort, is that it generalized everyone, so that even those who played "unfavored" classes could now be picked and play in coop PvE again. Sure, it may not be how the class was meant (Ursan casters are funny) to be played, but it allows interaction and can be fun. Really, there already are "definitive" power builds for most of the professions, and with a little adaptation and/or ingenuity, can be made workable anywhere. It simple remains with the players to make use of them, I don't think I'd want to play with people who only accept the spoonfed class types anyways, which is why I haven't touched Ursan except for story specific reasons. |
Exactly right. If we were to create class specific builds like OP suggests it would create discrimination and get rid of the equality that Ursan gives. Everyone has the same skills so no one is better than anyone else. If you give warriors a skill that gives them +300 hp, and another that gives mesmers +1 energy regen, then mesmers will be discriminated against and people will only want warriors.
Nice try, but i would be worse than having Ursan as it is now.
MisterT69
I like the idea (looks at spots 6,7,8 on ursan bar). Well whatdya know, we got tons of room for skills. I'd love to see ele-specific ursan skills (bear shower ftw?) or some other super awesome AoE damage spell . It could make ursan a little more enjoyable for specific classes
. It could make ursan a little more enjoyable for specific classes
Sparks Dawnbringer
/ not signed, not ursan, not a lemming
Alex the Great
i got an idea.
make zealous weapons not work under ursan, or at least make them give the -1 regen.
game over (or atleast, slows them down to a spead challenable by a balanced team)
make zealous weapons not work under ursan, or at least make them give the -1 regen.
game over (or atleast, slows them down to a spead challenable by a balanced team)
FlamingMetroid
I imagine the OP as wearing a top hat and suit, with a monocle.
Shayne Hawke
There's a reason everybody uses Ursan instead of Volfen or Raven. Ursan is better in just about every way. Give every profession specific bars, and you'll get the same outcome.
/notsigned
/notsigned
MithranArkanere
I'd make the opposite. I'd make certain monsters so resilient to certain types of damage and certain attribute lines that bringing the same build all over the place would be stupid.
Monsters immune to any damage but a certain type, like degeneration, fire, armor ignoring, elemental, physical, slashing...
Monsters that take 25% Earth/Water/Air/Fire magic, while taking 175% form Air/Fire/Earth/Water damage respectively...
Monsters weak vs animal attacks...
Monsters immune to physical attacks, and other to elementals...
I finished both Prophecies and Factions with the very same build. I didn't have to change my build a single time in both campaigns.
Nightfall and Eye of the North ware better at that. I had to make changes more often.
Monsters immune to any damage but a certain type, like degeneration, fire, armor ignoring, elemental, physical, slashing...
Monsters that take 25% Earth/Water/Air/Fire magic, while taking 175% form Air/Fire/Earth/Water damage respectively...
Monsters weak vs animal attacks...
Monsters immune to physical attacks, and other to elementals...
I finished both Prophecies and Factions with the very same build. I didn't have to change my build a single time in both campaigns.
Nightfall and Eye of the North ware better at that. I had to make changes more often.
Elena
MONOCLE he's a wizard!
so instead of having the ele and necro both doing damage using ursan the ele would turn into a fire build LULZ and necro into a hexer thats it no water eart or death magic >.> zzzzzzzzz
so instead of having the ele and necro both doing damage using ursan the ele would turn into a fire build LULZ and necro into a hexer thats it no water eart or death magic >.> zzzzzzzzz
Bryant Again
Further straying from the vision of a GW makes not a good idea. Promoting more brainlessness is a bad path. That said, I'm not going to sign this.
Woop Shotty
Would be a fun thing to see, I'm sure.
Rhamia Darigaz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
I'd make the opposite. I'd make certain monsters so resilient to certain types of damage and certain attribute lines that bringing the same build all over the place would be stupid.
Monsters immune to any damage but a certain type, like degeneration, fire, armor ignoring, elemental, physical, slashing... Monsters that take 25% Earth/Water/Air/Fire magic, while taking 175% form Air/Fire/Earth/Water damage respectively... Monsters weak vs animal attacks... Monsters immune to physical attacks, and other to elementals... I finished both Prophecies and Factions with the very same build. I didn't have to change my build a single time in both campaigns. Nightfall and Eye of the North ware better at that. I had to make changes more often. |
MithranArkanere
Hm... just resistances, there is already a lof of things in GW like in Diablo II, mostly the good ones... Hell Mode was the best Diablo II mode, after all.