Ascalon

If your opening this to expect a "research" thread like my past few threads. Your wrong. This is a "Here are some things I've noticed and my opinions, what are your opinions of these?" thread.

There are three things I have noticed regarding Ascalon that I have been puzzled on recently.

Ascalon and Dragons
While questing on my new necro, I noticed something I didn't before. I saw a Dragon design on a ruined arch.
Here is a picture of the arch:

And close up at the dragon:


This alone, probably has no significance. However, knowing that there is a "Dragon Heads" Mural that is in Ashford Abby in pre, and the Isle of the Dead for Post (Keep in mind that the Isle of the Dead is based to look like Ascalon).
Here is a Picture:


There is also the Primodus Stained Painting that is in Gwen's Story for the BMP.
Primordus Picture:

And to add on to that, the Forgotten Mural looks like it's been influenced by a dragon (at least to me), albeit a chinese-style dragon.
Forgotten Mural Picture:


Although this could be irrelevant, i would also like to add there are gargoyle statues in Pre-Ascalon and in Gwen's Story that have a draconic look to them.


I know that the dragon designs in Ascalon cannot have a connection to the Ancient Dragons, and I know that the BMP, and EN Dungeons, use tons of Concept Art. But what I'm wondering, is if there is a connection between Ascalon and the Ancient Dragons? There might not have been one when Prophecies was made, but what if ANet is adding a connection through the only way possible, the BMP. What are your thoughts on this?

Affect from the Searing
I know that the searing burned most of the plants (not all as there are plants with leaves around in ascalon), and that it left huge crystals everywhere. But recently while vanquishing the Flame Temple Corridor, I noticed something that could just be "odd." What I noticed, is that lightning struck the same exact place countless times. Now I will say that, aside from the Magic aspect, Physics does affect the game like it does the real world, as it has been proven in GWO (can't recall where exactly but it does and all the "big researchers" over there say it does as well).

It is possible to have lightning strike random places (as it does in at least Old Ascalon, same way there are random Meteors in Hell's Pricipice), so why have it strike the same place within seconds?
Here are some pictures:




I personally, am completely baffled at this and have no clue what to say the reason is. So I'm asking your thoughts, my dear contemporaries.

Unknown Mural in Gwen's Story
This part is reletivly quick to ask and explain. While doing the Gwen's Story mission in the BMP recently, I noticed this hard to spot Mural above a doorway. So I'm wondering what it is, if anyone knows.
Here is the Mural:


Weird Markings
Lastly, I must ask if anyone has any clue what these things would be:

At first, and for a nice long time, I figured them to be grave markings, or tombstones if you will. I figured this because they are at the graveyard in the Surmia mission. That sounded logical to me until I noticed this unusual one in Grendich Courthouse.

So now I'm wondering what these things are (again) and now why this one isn't "working" like the others.


So my questions for you, readers, are:
1) Is it possible that ANet is adding some connection to the Ancient Dragons and Ascalon, even though Ascalon is taken over by the Charr in GW2?

2) Why is the lightning in this picture only striking that one spot, within seconds of the previous strike?

3) What is that Mural?

4) What is this and why isn't this one not "working?"

Your answers are all welcomed.

ever considered there just there cus they is pretty

Personaly i dnt think about it

Yeah, no offence but I think you're looking way to much into this. Those things are probably just there to look pretty and use up nice concept arts. As for the lightning thing, I'd guess it's just lazy scripting.

Probably looking way to much into the dragon idea, and the lightning is probably lazy scripting (or they thought it would look nice).

However, the question still stand of what that mural is that I don't know. And what those things are as well. I don't think they would just add in several cubic-like items that glow, then purposely add in one that doesn't.

But hey, where is the fun in just saying "They put it all in because it looks nice." I can tell you that I don't find any.

The meteors also strike in the same place too so.....yea.....

I would like to point out it just occurred to me about Fiery Dragon Swords there’s something to think about as well. Why would Ascalon Royalty (Prince Rurick and his papa) wield swords called Firey DRAGON swords?

Just somthing more to think about that you did not mention

well, there has to be a limit to what locations the meteors hit, but I meant they don't all strike one specific spot within seconds (with that spot being scenery). In Old Ascalon, near the Grawl area south of the sanatarium, you can sometimes get hit by a random Invoke Lightning skill that works the same as Meteor in Hell's Precipice.

It seems I forgot about that. And its more then just Adelbern and Rurik, the Royal Guards also carry them. Yet another Dragon reference in Ascalon.

You know, there is a limit to how many events that are similar for it still to be "coincidence."

The lightning always hit the highest top it is in range of, where it strikes depends on where the thunderstorm is heading i suppose.
(in this case, the tower is the highest possible top near the thunderstorm so thats problably why it gets stroke all the time.) tho its weird that the thunderstorm aint there, just bright blue.. no wait- purple sky.

The unknown picture, looks to me like a vanguard warrior.

Answer: they put these things in without too much thought. I dont think everything has an answer, because its just a game, they dot things about and stuff that looks cool... you cant look too deeply into it. 'oh why is that tree dead, yet magically the tree next to it is alive, is that tree a sylvia' no. its just there like that.

if u notice on the glowing stones the symbol sorta looks like a dragon, u can see its head in the middle of it.

""It seems I forgot about that. And its more then just Adelbern and Rurik, the Royal Guards also carry them. Yet another Dragon reference in Ascalon.

You know, there is a limit to how many events that are similar for it still to be "coincidence."""

Hate to burst your bubbles (no I don't) but Rurik's and Adelbern's swords are not fiery dragon swords, they are legendary swords bythe names of Sohothin (Rurik's) and Magdaer (Adelbern's)

legendary swords huh

but they look yust the same like any other fiery dragon swords

as for the tombstones it might be possible that the effect on them was caused by the curse laid on the tome , when removed the fallen soldiers rise from there grave and become hostile to anyone

At the end of the day ITS A GAME!!!!
Just play the game lol

I suggest everyone going into a lore forum saying "ITS JUST A GAME" like the poster above, take their +1 post counts someplace else.

Anet from the looks of it like to add dragon references everywere. In fact its possible the whole Ancient Dragons idea is a former story plot for Prophecies that is being developed into something bigger. Evidence for this could be the original trailer which featured the Ascalon Heroes encountering a dragon in flight and also the many dragon pictures (The mysterious stones in The Wilds, the many wall pictures and the concept art). While they probably had not thought of putting sleeping powerful dragons in they most likely wanted to include dragons alot more than they did.

I dont think there is much explanation for this. Its one of those "lets put it in for an effect" things.

Random concept art of a warrior. I have seen it in the collectors edition artwork. There are more images like it in there which seem to be depicting a fighter in armour. If you want to go into Murals i would be asking who the man in red is in the picture below (has your mural in there aswell)



Now this is like one of the objects i mentioned before. The mysterious lopsided stones which have pictures on them. The ones i mentioned are blue and feature three symbols on them, one of which is a dragon. What they are and why there are some not working is a mystery.

Wow I cant believe no one thought of this.

Warning: some of this stuff is spoilers to the story to EOTN








I think all those dragon symbols are maybe like warnings or phrophecies or something about the "greatest threat in all of Tyria" or whatever ogden says in his benediction. After doing research (looking 1 thing up ) this is Primordus one of the ancient dragons. maybe they were telling of his arrive in Tyria. Again this is only my opinion as i have absolutely no proof of this.

Perhaps the people of Ascalon saw these Dragons as Demigods maybe?

Well, thank you Free Runner for actually answering my questions.

I suppose that dragons were wanted to be put in the game is reasonable, but may I ask if you can post a picture of the "The mysterious stones in The Wilds" because I don't quite remember seeing stones shaped like dragons in The Wilds. Seeing how there are a lot of Dragon references in Prophecies and Factions, you are probably right with the whole "Dragons were originally planned to be a major player" type of idea.

Also, can you post a picture of the mysterious lopsided stones that are "blue and feature three symbols on them," I don't recall ever seeing those as well. Although I probably have and just don't remember.

You are both right and wrong. They are legendary swords, but they are also Fiery Dragon Swords. So they are Legendary Fiery Dragon Swords, so to speak.

Don't think that is possible as the Ancient Dragons were supposedly hibernating before the earliest record of humanity (and charr). The Humans have alwaysworshiped the 5 (now 6) gods and never worshiped others as gods (except in a few rare cases like the White Mantle).

Actually the blue stone and the stone with a dragon on it are the same thing. They have 3 pictures one of which is a dragon and the others look like symbols that are unknown. Most assume the stones are about Glint and the events of Prophecies however their location is rather random. I'll attempt to get a picture however they are located in the bonus area of The Wilds.


EDIT: Here it is.

Ah, ok, I remember that now, I thought the stone was shaped like a dragon, which got me confused. I never really looked at the shapes on those stones before, but I have seen the stones before. Thank you for clarifying them for me.

Something to add, wasnt everyones favorite fleshbag born in Ascalon: ROTSCALE! Last time I checked, hes a dragon.

I actually didn't add that because that fact was born during the beta and other then that, I found no "Rotscale was made by the Stone Summit in Ascalon" statements. Although if you go to Free Runner's "Dragons throughout Guild Wars" thread, which is basically going on this and expanding it to all of GW, he does add that .

One thing to consider regarding the Ascalon/Dragon connection...

Ascalon is, according to the timeline, the oldest human settlement in Tyria (the oldest that survived up to the time of the Searing, anyway). Kryta, by contrast, is actually the youngest human settlement in the game, starting as an Ascalonian colony that gained independence after the exodus of the Gods.

So... Ascalon was founded before the gods left, and possibly before the Forgotten retreated. Rather than representing the primordial dragons, could this imagery have been originally intended to honour Glint, with its meaning possibly having been forgotten and become simply seen as a symbol of Ascalon among the Tyrian nations after the Exodus?

Ascalon was founded before the Forgotten retreated, and both Kryta and Orr were Ascalonian "colonies" that later seceded(information regard this fact is found in "The History of Tyria" in the Prophecies Manual). However, Glint, as far as I know, was not known to Ascalonians. I may be wrong about that, but the only humans I know that know of glint are the Elonian ghosts in the Crystal Desert, and through them, the players (or lore wise, Devona, Cynn, Mhenlo, Eve, Aiden).

It is possible that the dragon on the arches and on the mural in the Dead Isle/Asford Abby could be Glint, however the one in Gwen's Story is proven to be Primordus.

I thought Draxynnic was actually talking about the Forgotton rather than Ascalonians. And its not yet proven the mural is Primordus.


Something i was wondering about Ascalon....the Ascalons Chosen have a symbol on their capes much like how other guilds do. This symbol shows up in Gwens Story aswell. However the exact same symbol appears on the Tome of the Rubicon which as far as i know was supposed to be written by the Great Dwarf and was part of the dwarfs history rather than humans......

Ah, yes, I hadn't checked the timeline when I made the post. Hence the 'possibly'.

Still, part of the point of my second paragraph is that they may not know it's Glint that they're representations of - the original meaning has been forgotten. But it does seem less jarring for them to have images derived from Glint than of Primordius, Word of God be damned*.

It is possible, though, that this could be an even older racial memory and that humanity was in fact around at the time of the war between gods and dragons. Possibly the ancestors of the Ascalonians played an especially important role in Primordius' defeat and were granted the right to use his likeness in their heraldry as a reward?

*I do vaguely remember it being confirmed by the company that the likeness in Gwen's Story is of Primordius. But what do they know? They're only the writers...

I don't think the Ascalonians were part of any war against the Dragons. I say this because such a climatic event would be known and not so easily forgotten, much like the serpents leaving the hospitable world.

Also, the older races, such as the Charr, Seers, and Mursaat - and possibly others - would know of the war as well. Seeing how no races seem to know about the Dragons, I would say that any battle between the Gods and Dragons would have happened before the Forgotten came by, around the time of the Giganticus Lupicus mainly.

Not necassarily. In GW2, the history of humanity has largely only been preserved due to the efforts of the Order of Whispers - it's not impossible for this history to have been lost. Or possibly even deliberately erased by the gods - which we know has been done successfully within human-recorded history, so who knows what has been erased from before then?

Orr was NOT an Ascalonian colony. Timeline from the Manuscripts which can be seen here: GuildWars.com
Makes it very clear that it just appeared out of nowhere as an independent nation.

2 AE: Orr becomes an independent nation.

Also, sources are the most wonderful thing in existence. If you think a writer said that one of the murals seen in Gwen's Story was Primordus have a source to prove it. A building cannot stand without support as a body cannot without bones.

About the Orr thing Leon, it says Orr becomes independant. If it just "appeared" there, why was it dependant to? The only known Human settlement on that continent would be Ascalon, and seeing how they can't "become independant" from the gods 2 years after they leave, as they were still very religious, what else could they become independant from? Joko? It's rather simple thinking.

Orr became independant, never mentions from what, but the only likely thing would be from Ascalon. A simple deduction to mean that Orr was a colony, or vassal, of Ascalon.

And for your Primordus statement, it has been nearly unanimously agreed by players that the stained mural is of Primordus (and I believe there is a concept art that the mural is used from which has been stated to be concept for Primordus).

Until its confirmed by Anet its just concept art of a dragon that reachs back to the days of Prophecies. It would probably help to ask Anet on the Official wiki has they have answered things before such as the Shiverpeak Bloodstone being the same one from Bloodstone Caves.

It would seem like a simple deduction, but then you have to look at the fact that Kryta was mentioned as a colony and then it became independent. Why would you mention that and then not mention Orr being a colony? Also, what's wrong with Orr being a kingdom of the Gods before their Exodus? If Orr existed as a nation, but not as an independent one, it would explain how there is a record of the Exodus.

Just being the location of where the gods were is enough for Orr to record the Exodus and what the Gods were like back then. If Orr was never dependent on another kingdom, or on the Gods, it would say "Orr was founded," and if they were under the rule of the Gods, then they would become independant during the Exodus.

Not to mention that it is possible that the exact date of Orr's founding is unknown, so it could not be said when it became a colony. I mean, it was over a thousand years ago that Orr became independant. All we know of Orr's origin is that:

1. The Gods lived there.
2. It became independant in 2 AE
3. It was founded between 205BE (when humans arrived on Tyria) and 1 BE.

Thought:
What is Abaddon influenced the founding of Orr, seeing how "all knowledge of him" was "erased" by the other gods, if Abaddon had something to do with Orr's founding, than the gods would have removed that information from human knowledge. It is possible that they went as far as removing when Orr was founded, instead of just Abaddon's influence in the founding.

The glowing stones at Grendich are meant (I think) to be some sort of power source/soul battery and I have seen them somewhere else in Ascalon (at the end of the Surmia mission or in the graveyard in the Nolani Mission?) which made me think that.

My guess for them being at Grendich is that being a Courthouse it was linked to the rest of Ascalon by a Portal (as in the escape in the Surmia end cinematic) but the portal mechanism has gone/is buried. The portal mechanism is damaged at Nolani but the circular floor 'pad' crops up in other locations throughout the game (in Guild Halls too).

The Krytans or Elonians have teleporter technology - as can be seen in the desert around Augury Rock so a variation may well have been used by the Ascalonians

...or perhaps I ought to get out more?

Is it actually specified that the teleporters are Elonian? They could just as easily be Forgotten... or Margonite.

Mmhmm, to add to this dragon stuff: what about that huge ship sitting in Ice Floe to the west side, or any of the dwarven ships. Theyve got dragons plastered on their paperthin cloth sail thingers, and theyve got gold dragons on the front. (2) clawing out.

I believe those ships belong to the Brotherhood of the Dragon so that'd be glint.