Every now and then i try to Vanquish on my warrior with h/h using either racthohs para buddies( i go godmode) with 3 melee and a hero henchie or triple necro vanquish (godmode or ursan) with monk henchie and 3 others. but pretty much every time i do try to VQ this way my h/h are constantly dieing. Am i doing something wrong? even if i flag my heros back and i get all the aggro when i unflag my heros the enemies just run past me going for the squishes. ive heard of ppl get vanquishing with just h/h but i can never do it. any advice?
(sorry if this is in the wrong place)
What am I doing wrong?
Spike Stritter
N1ghtstalker
what are you trying to vanquish exactly?
Squishy ftw
Are they runed decently?(survivor/minors)
What areas are it that you're failing at? Because there are some pretty hard areas out there, even when using sabs.
Are you taking down the biggest threats to your party first ?
What areas are it that you're failing at? Because there are some pretty hard areas out there, even when using sabs.
Are you taking down the biggest threats to your party first ?
itsvictor
Your first with racthoh's hero has too much melee and not enough support. The melee AI is extremely lacking and you're pretty much wasting your time imo. You need to bring 2 hench monks(in my experience) when you do sab since one hench monk has a hard support itself even with extra healing. Be brave and gain adrenaline for SY is my other guess.
Covah
never take melee hench, they suck. You + 3 paragons for Racway is more then enough melee. Bring 2 monks +ranger and earth ele if you have too.
Akroma Angel NL
i use 3 necro hench myself as a warrior ursan
and 2 monks hench and 2 ele hench
it does the job for me
and 2 monks hench and 2 ele hench
it does the job for me
N1ghtstalker
adjust the builds depending on the area
sabway isn't failproof
if it's an area with heavy hexing sabway won't do squat since it has no hexremoval
sabway isn't failproof
if it's an area with heavy hexing sabway won't do squat since it has no hexremoval
Alex the Great
Quote:
Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker
adjust the builds depending on the area
sabway isn't failproof
if it's an area with heavy hexing sabway won't do squat since it has no hexremoval
add cure hex to the SS and the MM. Henchies already have hex removal so your golden
sabway isn't failproof
if it's an area with heavy hexing sabway won't do squat since it has no hexremoval
add cure hex to the SS and the MM. Henchies already have hex removal so your golden
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex the Great
Henchies already have hex removal so your golden
Yes and Mhenlo only has sucky [[Deny Hex] which he hardly uses.
Can't rely on henchies for hex removal.
Can't rely on henchies for hex removal.
Proff
Try taking 2 monks and see how it goes, cause the problem might just be the way you aggro or who you target.
Axel Zinfandel
Quote:
Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker
adjust the builds depending on the area
sabway isn't failproof
if it's an area with heavy hexing sabway won't do squat since it has no hexremoval If it's an area with heavy hexing, they will be far too spamable to even waste your time with hex removal.
sabway isn't failproof
if it's an area with heavy hexing sabway won't do squat since it has no hexremoval If it's an area with heavy hexing, they will be far too spamable to even waste your time with hex removal.
Clarissa F
Pretty much what was said. Make sure your heroes are runed. Most people will just throw on the build and gogogo. Control the aggro. Use proper target selection. Don't think you can Leeroy through just because you have sab. They are only as smart as their leader uses them. Control the aggro. Take out the biggest issues first(healers,hexxers...), then worry about the melees running around.
Oh, and control the aggro.
Oh, and control the aggro.
Shaz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
If it's an area with heavy hexing, they will be far too spamable to even waste your time with hex removal.
Many people always say this, but hex removals does help in heavy hex area with harmful hexes to your build. Most of the spamable one are usually not that harmful, usually just degen. It's stuff like SS, Migraine, PoF, Vision of Regret, etc. that aren't that spammable and need to be taken off asap. Even if those are spammable because there are more than one necros/mesmers in the group, you should be prepare to take those off with decent hex control anyway otherwise you'll have a hard time fighting with those on. The more hex removals you have the better chances you'll have at taking those more harmful one off, AI are bad at covering hexes anyway.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
If it's an area with heavy hexing, they will be far too spamable to even waste your time with hex removal.
It is the heavily hexed areas that you may want to bring more than one hex removal especially if some of those hexes are devastating. It doesn't make sense NOT to bring hex removal even in places heavy with devastating hexes like SS, empathy, diversion, backfire, etc.
Many people misunderstood and think that because sabway doesn't have a hex removal skill, hex removals are ALWAYS bad to bring along with you. Sabway is just a generic build, not the commandments, and you should adapt it to the needs of specific areas.
For the other areas, it doesn't really matter if you have a hex removal or not. I normally just bring one [[Cure Hex] for the degen hexes since it also gives a nice heal side effect to take pressure off my healers, but good healers can also heal through them even without hex removals, in general.
If I remove Conjure Nightmare for example, Cure Hex saves me about 250+hp. I dont feel bad at all using it even against degen hexes just for the heals.
Many people misunderstood and think that because sabway doesn't have a hex removal skill, hex removals are ALWAYS bad to bring along with you. Sabway is just a generic build, not the commandments, and you should adapt it to the needs of specific areas.
For the other areas, it doesn't really matter if you have a hex removal or not. I normally just bring one [[Cure Hex] for the degen hexes since it also gives a nice heal side effect to take pressure off my healers, but good healers can also heal through them even without hex removals, in general.
If I remove Conjure Nightmare for example, Cure Hex saves me about 250+hp. I dont feel bad at all using it even against degen hexes just for the heals.
Darkside
sab and racthoh heroes are both great but you have to be very careful in hardmode. Be sure to pull carefully and don't over aggro.
I generally bring along Cynn, Herta, and two Monk henchies with sabs triple nec team. I haven't had much trouble. I find the only flaw is lack of hex removal (usually not a huge deal) and lack of interrupts.
Another thing I would suggest is before you vanquish an area look it up on wiki and find out what you are dealing with. I almost always make small changes to my hero's builds to deal with whatever baddies are in that particular area.
I generally bring along Cynn, Herta, and two Monk henchies with sabs triple nec team. I haven't had much trouble. I find the only flaw is lack of hex removal (usually not a huge deal) and lack of interrupts.
Another thing I would suggest is before you vanquish an area look it up on wiki and find out what you are dealing with. I almost always make small changes to my hero's builds to deal with whatever baddies are in that particular area.
Cathode_Reborn
How much hex/condition removal you should bring depends on where the main damage is coming from.
Phys are affected by Weakness/Blind/Cripple. Casters are only affected by daze. There's also alot more hexes that are anti-phys based. If most of my damage is coming from casters, I'd take direct-healing skills over hex removal since it's more versatile.
Anyways....posting your "godmode" (oh the irony) build would help. The areas you're vanquishing also makes a huge difference.
Phys are affected by Weakness/Blind/Cripple. Casters are only affected by daze. There's also alot more hexes that are anti-phys based. If most of my damage is coming from casters, I'd take direct-healing skills over hex removal since it's more versatile.
Anyways....posting your "godmode" (oh the irony) build would help. The areas you're vanquishing also makes a huge difference.
Spike Stritter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy ftw
Are they runed decently?(survivor/minors)
What areas are it that you're failing at? Because there are some pretty hard areas out there, even when using sabs.
Are you taking down the biggest threats to your party first ? ALL of my heros are runed with survivor runes with major vigors and the runes they need for their att.
i jjust tried vanquishing mentani keys and when i aggroed a group of 5 skales we killed them all but at the cost of a h/h or 2 dieing pretty much everyonetime i aggroed ONE group.
Quote From Covah--"You + 3 paragons for Racway is more then enough melee. Bring 2 monks +ranger and earth ele if you have too."
Count much? me = war, racways heros = TWO paras, 1 derv.
OQkSEZKT8VLOxgnimaGWXFmY that is godmode.
Also the reason a brought all melee and 1 monk is because someone posted racthohs build on pvx and it said on there to bring as much melee as possible to get the full effect from the derv.
What areas are it that you're failing at? Because there are some pretty hard areas out there, even when using sabs.
Are you taking down the biggest threats to your party first ? ALL of my heros are runed with survivor runes with major vigors and the runes they need for their att.
i jjust tried vanquishing mentani keys and when i aggroed a group of 5 skales we killed them all but at the cost of a h/h or 2 dieing pretty much everyonetime i aggroed ONE group.
Quote From Covah--"You + 3 paragons for Racway is more then enough melee. Bring 2 monks +ranger and earth ele if you have too."
Count much? me = war, racways heros = TWO paras, 1 derv.
OQkSEZKT8VLOxgnimaGWXFmY that is godmode.
Also the reason a brought all melee and 1 monk is because someone posted racthohs build on pvx and it said on there to bring as much melee as possible to get the full effect from the derv.
Fire The Nutter
Sorry but I cant help but think "BAAAAAAA".
Do at least a little thinking for yourself. Consider some interruption capability, got good sources of blind, dazed, weakness ?
Any protection?
What Kurz rank are you and are you using SY often enough?
Id recommend 2 "monk"(if its not hench here then N/Rt with a Mo or E/Mo Ether Renewal perhaps?) backline even with the derv.
Reason being the derv works with the paras because they are close by to each other, so you have 1 monk covering, what 4 melee including you? thats a stretch i would have said, espec with (im guessing here) some AoE water spells going off from 5 targets?
Give the vanq some thought and youll be fine but just blindly copying PvX builds......... well stick to NM
Do at least a little thinking for yourself. Consider some interruption capability, got good sources of blind, dazed, weakness ?
Any protection?
What Kurz rank are you and are you using SY often enough?
Id recommend 2 "monk"(if its not hench here then N/Rt with a Mo or E/Mo Ether Renewal perhaps?) backline even with the derv.
Reason being the derv works with the paras because they are close by to each other, so you have 1 monk covering, what 4 melee including you? thats a stretch i would have said, espec with (im guessing here) some AoE water spells going off from 5 targets?
Give the vanq some thought and youll be fine but just blindly copying PvX builds......... well stick to NM
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Stritter
Also the reason a brought all melee and 1 monk is because someone posted racthohs build on pvx and it said on there to bring as much melee as possible to get the full effect from the derv.
I wouldn't bring all melee heroes/henchies, especially if you are already having problems. Melee heroes/henchies have pathing issues and get "confused" by AoE attacks. I would bring Mhenlo, Herta, Cynn, and Zho if I am in EOTN areas.
NYC Elite
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
I wouldn't bring all melee heroes/henchies, especially if you are already having problems. Melee heroes/henchies have pathing issues and get "confused" by AoE attacks. I would bring Mhenlo, Herta, Cynn, and Zho if I am in EOTN areas.
You don't bring one ranger and all casters when you're running an orders derv.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC Elite
You don't bring one ranger and all casters when you're running an orders derv.
You already have 2 Paragons+the warrior using the orders from the derv.
Melee heroes/henchies just suck, when I see them run around like headless chickens under AoE attacks, doing nothing except getting killed from range. Other times they just stand right next to the monster doing nothing again.
Bringing melee henchies already didnt work for him and has never worked for me either when I tried them. The other GWEN heroes do not need the adrenaline boost, I suppose you can replace Cynn with Aidan but Cynn still kills faster than Aidan with an order derv, go figure.
And Herta is just too great with wards to be replaced by any of the melee henchies.
Synergizing just for the sake of synergizing doesn't always work as well in practice, as it does on paper. You have to take the AI limitations into account.
Melee heroes/henchies just suck, when I see them run around like headless chickens under AoE attacks, doing nothing except getting killed from range. Other times they just stand right next to the monster doing nothing again.
Bringing melee henchies already didnt work for him and has never worked for me either when I tried them. The other GWEN heroes do not need the adrenaline boost, I suppose you can replace Cynn with Aidan but Cynn still kills faster than Aidan with an order derv, go figure.
And Herta is just too great with wards to be replaced by any of the melee henchies.Synergizing just for the sake of synergizing doesn't always work as well in practice, as it does on paper. You have to take the AI limitations into account.
Spike Stritter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire The Nutter
Sorry but I cant help but think "BAAAAAAA".
1.Do at least a little thinking for yourself. Consider some interruption capability, got good sources of blind, dazed, weakness ?
Any protection?
2.What Kurz rank are you and are you using SY often enough?
3.Give the vanq some thought and youll be fine but just blindly copying PvX builds......... well stick to NM 1. i dont see how i can add some weakness/ inturruption/blind/daze unless i either change the builds that are proven by multiple ppl they work great the way they are or dont use racthohs builds which is pretty much saying dont use something that is supposed to work really great.
2. r5...i can keep up a constant SY
3. When i go with another person i usually do. but i was alone this time and bored so i decided to try racthohs build with just me and henchmen...i wanted to see how good it actually was...which in my case it wasnt and i partly blame myself for not using the proper henchmen now that i know melee henchmen fail.
1.Do at least a little thinking for yourself. Consider some interruption capability, got good sources of blind, dazed, weakness ?
Any protection?
2.What Kurz rank are you and are you using SY often enough?
3.Give the vanq some thought and youll be fine but just blindly copying PvX builds......... well stick to NM 1. i dont see how i can add some weakness/ inturruption/blind/daze unless i either change the builds that are proven by multiple ppl they work great the way they are or dont use racthohs builds which is pretty much saying dont use something that is supposed to work really great.
2. r5...i can keep up a constant SY
3. When i go with another person i usually do. but i was alone this time and bored so i decided to try racthohs build with just me and henchmen...i wanted to see how good it actually was...which in my case it wasnt and i partly blame myself for not using the proper henchmen now that i know melee henchmen fail.
DarkSpirit
Warriors dont make as good SY users as paragons. If you want a more defensive build to protect your backline, use a MM like a sabway variant. Something like:
[Curse/Splinter Necro;OAhkYgHcoIqEGTZAjodwuzng3UVF]
[MM;OABDQTxGTLVTBHVJgLCKCoBVVA]
[Healer Necro;OANDYZzfOak72G5uO9NaoxAC]
[Curse/Splinter Necro;OAhkYgHcoIqEGTZAjodwuzng3UVF]
[MM;OABDQTxGTLVTBHVJgLCKCoBVVA]
[Healer Necro;OANDYZzfOak72G5uO9NaoxAC]
Spike Stritter
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Warriors dont make as good SY users as paragons.
what do u suggest i run then?
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Stritter
what do u suggest i run then?
The DSlash build is fine, just dont expect as much SY as an Imbagon.