Hey guys! I'm a monk, my Uncle Bob is a necro. We've been just nuking the crap out of everything for vanquishing, and it's working pretty well. We'd just like a little change of pace. I'm at work, so I can't get online and test it out, but here's my initial thoughts:
Me and my heroes:
[Eryk (HB Heal);OwYT043AZ6jYjIH83BZQiIuCNCA]
[Hayda (Motivator);AJMCqWin8IiVxX4OcKeI7ul3A]
[Morgahn (Commander 1);AJMCqayl4wjtwh/KMQOI7ul3A]
[Sousuke (Burninator);OgBCoMzDdbs206F+CkBugWA]
Bob and his heroes:
[Bob (Damage Booster);AEOioSwhIJHYI0JMHgxcttFWVB]
[Hayda (Leader);AZMC6Wpl6wVeLo4eMD+B7ul3A]
[Morgahn (Commander 2);OQCjUimMqOs4dsFuGLkfwub5NA]
[Tahlkora (Prot);AjJxjh8MQmJCEt4mulEQQGA]
I'm flexible and open to new ideas - only thing is, I'd like to use 4 paragons. Feel free to tell me to chuck out the other heroes. I'm considering switching one of the Paragons to P/W and adding "Watch Yourselves!" and "Shields Up!" but I'm still not sure what to toss out. I haven't had a lot of experience with Paragon heroes, so I'm still not sure what they're good at and what they're bad at. Thank you for your suggestions!
Eryk
Need some input on a 2 human / 6 hero build...
bendezium
Kerwyn Nasilan
Looks just fine to me
scythefromunder
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ight=para+team
I think you can fit a monk in there somewhere.
And your "Uncle Bob" can run the orders.
I think you can fit a monk in there somewhere.
And your "Uncle Bob" can run the orders.
bendezium
Yeah, I've seen that thread. You don't think I'll have enough healing with 2 monks plus the half-healer motivation Paragon? And do you really think Orders will help more than Mark of Pain / Barbs? Orders only lasts 5 seconds...
Eryk
Eryk
theonetheonlybruce
well what orders is he talking about [order of pain] or[order of the vampire]
scythefromunder
@Bruce
I was talking about [Order of the Vampire]
@Bendezium
I suggest to have
1 [Save Yourselves!] with [Focused Anger]
1 [Order of the Vampire]
1 [Shield of Deflection]
1 [Angelic Bond]
1 [Song of Purification]
1 [Stunning Strike]
1 [Healer's Boon]
1 [Empathic Removal]
Try to play around with that.
I was talking about [Order of the Vampire]
@Bendezium
I suggest to have
1 [Save Yourselves!] with [Focused Anger]
1 [Order of the Vampire]
1 [Shield of Deflection]
1 [Angelic Bond]
1 [Song of Purification]
1 [Stunning Strike]
1 [Healer's Boon]
1 [Empathic Removal]
Try to play around with that.
bendezium
LOL did you just copy and paste Racthoh's post?
Eryk
Eryk
scythefromunder
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendezium
LOL did you just copy and paste Racthoh's post?
Eryk Maybe...It was on accident =D
but edited
Look ^
Eryk Maybe...It was on accident =D
but edited
Look ^
War My Guild
I'd stick [aegis] somewhere on Tahlk's bar.
Also, if you or 'Bob' could run [ebon battle standard of honor], that'd help alot, as you have 4 paras.
Also, if you or 'Bob' could run [ebon battle standard of honor], that'd help alot, as you have 4 paras.
bendezium
Quote:
Originally Posted by scythefromunder
I suggest to have
1 [Save Yourselves!] with [Focused Anger] That would be problematic, since neither of us humans are a Paragon. Granted, one of us could go Paragon secondary, but then what would I do for energy management / where would we put Splinter Weapon?
I'll rethink Tahlkora's build as well
Eryk
1 [Save Yourselves!] with [Focused Anger] That would be problematic, since neither of us humans are a Paragon. Granted, one of us could go Paragon secondary, but then what would I do for energy management / where would we put Splinter Weapon?
I'll rethink Tahlkora's build as well
Eryk
Shaz
From just looking over the build quickly, mostly at the paragon builds, here are some suggestions.
2 meciless spear seem pretty pointless, 1 is enough, or even none since you have a cruel already. Have some attack with +damage.
Barbed spear is not that great in PvE, as bleeding isn't an important condition, you especially don't need 2 of it at only 2 adren cost. You already have burning and weakness to trigger Stunning.
Try to fit Anthem of Envy for added damage, maybe for one of the Anthem of Flame. One Anthem of Flame should be enough, as they spam it on recharge.
Do they chain SYG correctly, or you micro it? If not then one Tactic Paragon with Watch Yourself is probably better, then you can also have Shield Up.
Crippling Anthem is not necessary in PvE. I'd use something else, like Song of Restoration or Defensive Anthem if you want your caster some blocking since you don't have Aegis.
Higher Spear Mastery, 9-10 Command/Motivation should be enough. You can have 12 Motivation on the Song of Purification Para after runed (11+1) if you want it to remove 3 conditions.
2 meciless spear seem pretty pointless, 1 is enough, or even none since you have a cruel already. Have some attack with +damage.
Barbed spear is not that great in PvE, as bleeding isn't an important condition, you especially don't need 2 of it at only 2 adren cost. You already have burning and weakness to trigger Stunning.
Try to fit Anthem of Envy for added damage, maybe for one of the Anthem of Flame. One Anthem of Flame should be enough, as they spam it on recharge.
Do they chain SYG correctly, or you micro it? If not then one Tactic Paragon with Watch Yourself is probably better, then you can also have Shield Up.
Crippling Anthem is not necessary in PvE. I'd use something else, like Song of Restoration or Defensive Anthem if you want your caster some blocking since you don't have Aegis.
Higher Spear Mastery, 9-10 Command/Motivation should be enough. You can have 12 Motivation on the Song of Purification Para after runed (11+1) if you want it to remove 3 conditions.
War My Guild
Adding on to my earlier opinions:
[Word of Healing] would be better than [light of deliverance]
Try swapping out [crippling anthem] for ["incoming!"]
[Word of Healing] would be better than [light of deliverance]
Try swapping out [crippling anthem] for ["incoming!"]
distilledwill
The builds look fine. Although as War My Guild says, Id swap out Crippling Anthem - not that good in PvE and you might want to try swapping it out for something like [["Incoming!"].
Also, although Deep Wound is fun, merciless spear is not doing much when you have 2 copies AND a cruel spear para. Try swapping them out for [[Vicious Attack] or [[Harrier's Toss] - that way you get more damage.
Also, skills such as [[Cry Of Frustration] and [[Power Spike] are very useful on paras. Even with a very low spec they do an ok amount of damage and serve as an interupt (which your current build lacks barr Stunning Strike). You could try squeezing them onto a couple of your paras - maybe over [[Mending Refrain] and [[Bladeturn Refrain].
Also, although Deep Wound is fun, merciless spear is not doing much when you have 2 copies AND a cruel spear para. Try swapping them out for [[Vicious Attack] or [[Harrier's Toss] - that way you get more damage.
Also, skills such as [[Cry Of Frustration] and [[Power Spike] are very useful on paras. Even with a very low spec they do an ok amount of damage and serve as an interupt (which your current build lacks barr Stunning Strike). You could try squeezing them onto a couple of your paras - maybe over [[Mending Refrain] and [[Bladeturn Refrain].
bendezium
OK, I've updated the Paragons - only 1 Barbed Spear, 1 Merciless Spear, 1 Anthem of Flame, no Crippling Anthem, etc. Also, Tahlkora is now full Prot... I like the SoD suggestion.
One thing I don't understand... why Orders instead of SS/Mark of Pain/Barbs? What about SS/Reckless Haste/Price of Failure? The Orders only last 5 seconds and take a full 2 seconds to cast, plus they require sacrificing 1/6 of your health. I'm not against using them, just to clarify, I just don't understand why they're the best choice - an explanation would make me feel better about swapping them in.
Thanks for the ideas guys - keep 'em coming!
Eryk
One thing I don't understand... why Orders instead of SS/Mark of Pain/Barbs? What about SS/Reckless Haste/Price of Failure? The Orders only last 5 seconds and take a full 2 seconds to cast, plus they require sacrificing 1/6 of your health. I'm not against using them, just to clarify, I just don't understand why they're the best choice - an explanation would make me feel better about swapping them in.
Thanks for the ideas guys - keep 'em coming!
Eryk
Tyla
Give the Necro [[enfeebling blood]. You're best off being the prot as heroes can't preprot, and Res skills are bad on heroes.
An SF Elementalist is kinda bad on it's own, and Rodgort's Invocation is bad on an SF bar. Swap this out with an Orders Necro / Dervish.
Considerable to remove Essence Strike, Signet of Corruption and Vampirism off the SS, and replace with Enfeebling Blood, Death Pact Signet and Defile Defenses.
On the Healer's Boon bar, Healing Seed is bad. Res is bad on Monks. I would go with a WoH Hybrid Monk, but if you want Healer's Boon, take something like this:
[healer's boon][heal party][protective spirit][aegis][patient spirit][gole][dismiss condition][cure hex]
And chain Aegis.
For WoH?
[woh][patient spirit][signet of rejuvenation][aegis][shield of absorption][dismiss condition][cure hex][gole]
Orders are good because it's got alot of physicals, by the way.
I also wouldn't consider an Ele to become part of the defense web aswell.
An SF Elementalist is kinda bad on it's own, and Rodgort's Invocation is bad on an SF bar. Swap this out with an Orders Necro / Dervish.
Considerable to remove Essence Strike, Signet of Corruption and Vampirism off the SS, and replace with Enfeebling Blood, Death Pact Signet and Defile Defenses.
On the Healer's Boon bar, Healing Seed is bad. Res is bad on Monks. I would go with a WoH Hybrid Monk, but if you want Healer's Boon, take something like this:
[healer's boon][heal party][protective spirit][aegis][patient spirit][gole][dismiss condition][cure hex]
And chain Aegis.
For WoH?
[woh][patient spirit][signet of rejuvenation][aegis][shield of absorption][dismiss condition][cure hex][gole]
Orders are good because it's got alot of physicals, by the way.
I also wouldn't consider an Ele to become part of the defense web aswell.
bendezium
The SF was there to spread burning to make "They're on Fire!" useful. I'm okay with dropping it though - i'll just replace "They're on Fire!" with something else, no big deal.
Idea... change Bob to a N/P so he can use "Save Yourselves!" and swap the ele out for a Rt/x or N/Rt to spam Splinter Weapon? I've got Paragons chucking spears 25% faster than normal... Splinter Weapon seems like it would be a great asset.
Eryk
Idea... change Bob to a N/P so he can use "Save Yourselves!" and swap the ele out for a Rt/x or N/Rt to spam Splinter Weapon? I've got Paragons chucking spears 25% faster than normal... Splinter Weapon seems like it would be a great asset.
Eryk
Tyla
Well if you can, try running Orders and Splinter on the hero.
As for Bob, stick with the current idea and put Great Dwarf Weapon on a Paragon.
As for Bob, stick with the current idea and put Great Dwarf Weapon on a Paragon.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
I also wouldn't consider an Ele to become part of the defense web aswell.
I disagree. The SF ele is there for ToF. Considering that he has no SY and no minions as shield, ToF is useful for the damage reduction, especially in HM.
bendezium
I think I'll keep the Ele for the burning purposes, but modify the build a little bit - maybe E/Me for Leech Signet and Power Drain.
I'll talk to Bob and see what he thinks about SS vs Orders - I'll leave it up to him which build to run.
I can't put Great Dwarf Weapon on a Paragon - they're all Heroes, so they can't use PvE only skills.
Also, I'll consider changing my build as well so both Tahlkora and I are Heal/Prot, since chaining Aegis sounds very attractive.
Eryk
I'll talk to Bob and see what he thinks about SS vs Orders - I'll leave it up to him which build to run.
I can't put Great Dwarf Weapon on a Paragon - they're all Heroes, so they can't use PvE only skills.
Also, I'll consider changing my build as well so both Tahlkora and I are Heal/Prot, since chaining Aegis sounds very attractive.
Eryk
The Rift
I am doing this with a guildy aswell at the moment, is quite fun to make a 2 human / 6 hero build.
We are both necro's and it looks a little like this.
Me (N/Me) = Icy veins
hero 1 (N/Mo) = Jagged Bones ( sabway setup )
hero 2 (N/Rt) = Spiteful Spirit ( sabway setup )
hero 3 (P/W) = Song of Restoration ( Ractoh buddies setup )
Guildy (N/A) = Assassin's Promise, Mark of Pain nuker
hero 4 (N/Mo) = Divert Hexes protter
hero 5 (N/Rt) = Weapon of Redemy Healer ( sabway setup )
hero 6 (N/E) = Discord
still working on it, need some quicker heals, but the damage is insane.
We are both necro's and it looks a little like this.
Me (N/Me) = Icy veins
hero 1 (N/Mo) = Jagged Bones ( sabway setup )
hero 2 (N/Rt) = Spiteful Spirit ( sabway setup )
hero 3 (P/W) = Song of Restoration ( Ractoh buddies setup )
Guildy (N/A) = Assassin's Promise, Mark of Pain nuker
hero 4 (N/Mo) = Divert Hexes protter
hero 5 (N/Rt) = Weapon of Redemy Healer ( sabway setup )
hero 6 (N/E) = Discord
still working on it, need some quicker heals, but the damage is insane.
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
I disagree. The SF ele is there for ToF. Considering that he has no SY and no minions as shield, ToF is useful for the damage reduction, especially in HM.
No SY or minions as a shield? Think about it: He is using Incoming, and if he follows my suggestion of Enfeebling Blood he will have another strong damage mitigation device.
Elemental damage is less effective in HM, and apart from the minimal damage it serves ToF, so remove this, put in an Orders Necro for more damage off the melee and more adrenaline spamming, and you save 1 skill slot and gain alot more damage.
Elemental damage is less effective in HM, and apart from the minimal damage it serves ToF, so remove this, put in an Orders Necro for more damage off the melee and more adrenaline spamming, and you save 1 skill slot and gain alot more damage.
bendezium
I guess I should have mentioned that I like the Enfeebling Blood idea.
Alright - I'll chuck the Ele and ToF for an Orders Necro. You guys talked me into it, lol.
EDIT: OK, help me out with this orders necro: Order of the Vampire, Blood Ritual (disabled, used manually), Signet of Lost Souls, Splinter Weapon, Warmonger's Weapon... what other 3 skills? DPS, Bloodsong,...? Thanks!
Eryk
Alright - I'll chuck the Ele and ToF for an Orders Necro. You guys talked me into it, lol.
EDIT: OK, help me out with this orders necro: Order of the Vampire, Blood Ritual (disabled, used manually), Signet of Lost Souls, Splinter Weapon, Warmonger's Weapon... what other 3 skills? DPS, Bloodsong,...? Thanks!
Eryk
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
No SY or minions as a shield? Think about it: He is using Incoming, and if he follows my suggestion of Enfeebling Blood he will have another strong damage mitigation device.
Elemental damage is less effective in HM, and apart from the minimal damage it serves ToF, so remove this, put in an Orders Necro for more damage off the melee and more adrenaline spamming, and you save 1 skill slot and gain alot more damage. ToF DOES make a significant difference in HM, without SY or minions. Incoming alone, even with Enfeebling Blood, is not enough to protect your squishies. Also some monsters carry condition removal and he already has Anthem of Weakness.
Elemental damage is very effective in HM, unless you only play a ranger so you dont really feel it.
Elemental damage is less effective in HM, and apart from the minimal damage it serves ToF, so remove this, put in an Orders Necro for more damage off the melee and more adrenaline spamming, and you save 1 skill slot and gain alot more damage. ToF DOES make a significant difference in HM, without SY or minions. Incoming alone, even with Enfeebling Blood, is not enough to protect your squishies. Also some monsters carry condition removal and he already has Anthem of Weakness.
Elemental damage is very effective in HM, unless you only play a ranger so you dont really feel it.
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Using multiple SF Eles, it's worth using that slot. Otherwise, no.
Quote:
|
Elemental damage is very effective in HM, unless you only play a ranger so you dont really feel it.
Armour ignoring damage and physical damage > Elemental damage. Elemental damage is weakened by the huge amount of armour enemies have in HM. And guess what? I'm not a PvE monster, and I play accross all other professions, so I don't know where you got your last "point".
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Armour ignoring damage and physical damage > Elemental damage. Elemental damage is weakened by the huge amount of armour enemies have in HM.
Actually HM monsters have huge amount of armor against physical attacks also. Not only that, some of them have blocking and AoE blind. The physical damage is always higher than elemental theory just doesnt hold up in the area that I test in.
Tyla
lol.
Physical damage is affected by armour, yes. But attack skills that deal +damage are armour ignoring. For anti-melee, things like [[rigor mortis] and [[defile defenses], and for blinding, ever heard of condition removal? By the way, casters also have counters.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Physical damage is affected by armour, yes. But attack skills that deal +damage are armour ignoring. |
Are you kidding? I can agree with a minority of them but not all.
|
For anti-melee, things like [[rigor mortis] and [[defile defenses],
Which his build doesn't have.
Tyla
You can always have variables in a build, and if your build is based mostly on melee, anti-melee will screw it up entirely.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
You can always have variables in a build, and if your build is based mostly on melee, anti-melee will screw it up entirely.
Which is why there is value to be said for having a diversity of damage types.
Anyway, I am still interested to let him test it out and see. bendezium
Bob is now running Orders - I'd like to keep "They're on Fire!" with a mass burner to help keep incoming damage at a minimum. I've updated the builds in the first post.
Eryk |