What can ArenaNet offer me, a consumer, in terms of an enjoyable experience?

I'm new here, so hello everyone. I also want to change up the discussion a bit. Hopefully this is in the right place... I'd like an open discussion on what I can expect from Guild Wars 2, but I don't think this is a simple 'question + answer' sort of topic.

What can ArenaNet offer me, a consumer, in terms of an enjoyable experience? I do a fair bit of investigation before I buy most games. When I don't research a game before buying it, it's always a sequel to a previous title that I liked.

This year and the year to follow mark the biggest milestones in MMORPG history. Guild Wars 2 is soon to be released. Wrath of the Lich King will set another sequel for World of Warcraft. Diablo 3 apparently is or likely has been in production. (From the fact that Blizzard asked the original owners of the domain name diablo3.com for ownership rights to the domain. Although they stated that this doesn't mean Diablo 3 is in development, we all know why they wanted the domain.) Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures is also soon to be released.

For a week or so I've been researching existing problems that are inherent with Guild Wars and determining if its flaws can cause an otherwise dull or unpleasurable playing experience. For example, in the past I attempted to start a character in an MMORPG called SilkRoad Online. I'm not sure if you've heard of it, but one inherent flaw I detested beyond all reason was Skill Point or SP farming. Basically it meant keeping your skill masteries several stages below the player's level to be able to gain a higher ratio of SP than XP. This however made leveling even in the single digits take an unreasonable amount of time because I had to relinquish XP for maximal SP gain. From my investigation here I've noticed some inherent flaws which could make my Guild Wars playing experience short lived.

-- Lack of Endgame Content
This is the biggest flaw I can see from researching Guild Wars. From what I read, this may be the literal source of the apparently bad ingame economy. It's not necessarily that the game needs 'gold sinks' but that there is very little for the player to invest in or rather content to use gold for. PvP cannot simply be the only meaningful endgame content that Guild Wars can offer.

I'll refer to a game with the opposite problem, World of Warcraft. Upon reaching Level 70, there is still far too much damn content to do. Players continue to grind for money in that game to purchase new armors, gems, enchantments, etc because truly good equipment in WoW takes weeks upon weeks of grinding. To get the best items, players have to grind their characters by beating specific dungeon bosses over and over again to get a specific weapon or armor. This is my primary reason to dislike WoW. It is a never ending equipment grind. Just after you spend weeks or even months grinding to get the best possible armor set in the game from the latest released dungeon, Blizzard releases a new dungeon and new equipment for players to continue to grind for. The end result is that all this endgame content stacks up to such an extreme that you truly can only begin to play the game after spending 5 or 6 months leveling your character up to the level cap. I've even read that some WoW players are now labeling this phenomena as the 'infinite grind' and are beginning to detest this sort of endgame content. This kind of game is undesirable.

What I've yet to see is what ArenaNet can offer as an initiative to participate in endgame content once the player has reached the max level, or a sufficient level if ArenaNet decides to go without a level cap. There should be a set of goals the player should strive for in the game. Guild Wars aside from PvP is in such a lack of endgame content that players have self relegated that the ultimate goal of the game should be to have an Obsidian Armor Set or FoW Armor Set. (Whatever those mean, I'm not sure. I've noticed those two particular things have been mentioned frequently in the several economic debates going around.) From what I understand, the Obsidian Armor and FoW Armor sets are just skin variations that don't really have much of an incentive to achieve, other than bragging rights.

The question here is, now that ArenaNet notices the lack of endgame content and lack of a fleshed out leveling system (Level 20 being the max is the utter lowest I've seen from any MMORPG I've ever researched/played... By far.) can I trust that this problem be solved? From what I can interpret, the current Guild Wars 1 has a pretty short lived playing experience, that is if one doesn't feel any need to go after the small amount of endgame content left after getting to level 20. And this is what ArenaNet expected from players, but the playerbase contested and played Guild Wars as an MMORPG, despite its inherent lack in endgame content.

-- Superfluous Amounts of Skills
One of the biggest things I'm intimidated about is the sheer massive amounts of skills. I nearly crapped bricks after seeing over 60 skill icons on my sister's screen while playing WoW:BC when she first played her Lvl 70 Rogue after receiving it from a friend of hers. One thing I was relieved by when I saw Guild Wars was that you had a skill bar with eight slots. Well that makes things less confusing but much more difficult in another aspect.

How the hell should I know which skill out of the over 200 that's available per profession is good? I'd like to make my own Skill Bar sets, but it can get far too damn confusing for a single player to ease into. It sets up a whole new system because to use limitations to their fullest, a player has to make optimal use out of each and every single slot. While most players can say that 60% of all skills are crap, most skills are only useful when used in tandem with other skills. It then becomes a big problem to measure and weigh the benefits of skill combinations to others, which confuses the mess even further for me.

I'm just so intimidated by how exactly I can measure a skill to be better than another that all I believe I'll be capable of doing is following cookie cutter builds... There are Self Splinter Barrage Rangers, Perma-ShadowForm Assassins, Imbagons, Ursan (Although from what I read, it replaces your entire skill bar with preset skills...), Ether Renewal Elementalists, and it doesn't stop there. The possibilities for builds are just far too numerous to really count.

While on the surface one expects simplicity because of a constrained skill bar, in depth one can see that skill arrangement is bottomless. ArenaNet has stated this to be a problem they hope to solve with Guild Wars 2. However, what can I expect from this? I'd hope for 18 - 24 solid skills per attribute in the game, to give players freedom of choice but at the same time not flooding the players with "crappy" skills. A big problem in skill balance is also how skills are balanced against each other, rather than how professions could be balanced from their commonly used skills. The end result was that the unused skills just stay crappy while players only use the decent portion of skills. When I suggest 18 - 24 solid skills per attribute, I mean that 12 - 16 of those skills should be usable and efficient in high level play, depending on the skill combinations used.

-- Others
Other persisting problems include lack of features. I've read on Guild Wars 2 suggestions to include hair stylists... I was shocked. I took for granted that just about every MMO had boundless character customization that could be accessed whenever a player liked. However follow some big flaws...

- Arguably Ruined Economy
A bad economy really limits the freedom of fair player to player interaction. It seems good weapons are nearly worthless on Guild Wars, with IIRC 'Perfect Green' weapons only going for about 5K.

- Limited Economic Abilities
To trade in Guild Wars means shouting and typing constantly in towns just to sell your loot. I don't want to waste time selling loot just so I can buy armor to further increase my ability to explore new dungeons. I believe there's also a 1K Platinum cap in the bank which forces especially wealthy players to invest in other items if they want to increase their wealth beyond the bank's cap, such as Ecto and Shards, I believe. This kind of player regulated currency is always bound to fall apart. Players can't self regulate their own currency with Ecto and Shards, so economical potential is obviously very limited in this aspect. Players should be able to trade and rely on the given game currency itself for all trade matters.

Of course there's other problems. These problems are just overbearing to me, and taking note of them tells me I shouldn't bother with Guild Wars 1 in any way at all.

So I'm asking your opinion. How much faith do you have in ArenaNet and can you personally trust that these and other overbearing game flaws will be solved with Guild Wars 2?

Keep in mind that what I ask is more than "R u g0nna buy Gw2?!1one". So therefore its up to your own interpretation on how well the company can deliver for Guild Wars 2. I probably should've waited until we got more Guild Wars 2 info, but all the same... I suppose. Oh, and keep in mind I've only been researching into Guild Wars for perhaps 5 days now. I may be wrong on a lot of my info... X_x

EDITED by Commander Ryker : I started a new thread with this. Next time, do that first, rather then hijacking someone else's thread. If you want to change the title, PM me with the change and I'll fix it for you.

Nice post, I've actually enjoyed reading it.
You made two mistakes:

1) There is only FoW armor, no obsidian armor, although Obsidian Shards are needed to craft it
2) The maximum amount of gold that can be deposited is 1000K which equals 1 million gold. A character can carry a maximum of 100K

But you seem to know a LOT after 5 days. Kudos to you.

Obsidian armor is FoW armor. Clicky.

Hi Kain, i was gonna ask if you have done research into all the games you buy earlier, guess you did. any way

that aside,

you might want to read the Guild Wars 2 interview regarding your fear of the many skills.

Another one. (second links talks more about the persistant world + instancing and word pvp)

you can always look it up in guild wikis and guildwars official wiki for more infos.

Mainly this regarding skills;
"Speaking of running around the world, that's something you'll actually be able to do; run, jump, basically just dork around however you like. When you land in a new world, O'Brien explained, you don't want to have to read a bunch of skill descriptions, you want to run around and jump and swing, so that's what you'll be able to do in Guild Wars 2. It's meant to be a learn-by-doing sort of situation--rather than have overly complex skills that take an excessive amount of brain matter to understand, players will learn less complicated skills that they will be encouraged to test out in any situation they can think of. What happens if you use this skill while jumping, or that one while surrounded by monsters? Who knows? Give it a whirl and find out! Strain referred to it as "emergent complexity," and if it works the way they say it will, I shall personally send them each a fruit basket. Having a wide variety of skills in a game is great, but the amount of reading and memorizing you usually have to do to have even the most functional ability in an MMO is enough to drop me into a deep state of catatonia."

I don't know much about the economy of Guild Wars as I don't trade, I am interested in playing and what ever drops drops and if i happen to have enough money i'll buy whatever lol so can't help in that aspect. becasue for me, i can always get max armor, max weapons max anything from collectors.

(IMHO) if players don't want to grind, economy actually isn't a concern. just a thought.

Regarding how much faith I have with Arena Net 100% hahaha, from a fan point of view off course. you know, "eye of the beholder" I am not saying they don't have flaw, but I can over looked it as long as its free to play forever.

Now that I read more into it,
I fear GW 2 will have the "elit players thing" going one lol (don't know howt o describe it)

Please Read these paragraph:
"If you adventure out there, you're just playing as you, you don't have to form a team or get picked for a team - you can just wander out into the Mists and you can be fighting people right away. There could be 100 people on your side, there could be 200 people on your side, whatever there is, and you play as you, so if your character is level 15 you play as level 15, if you character is 50 you're playing as level 50.

We will have a sidekicking system similar to what City of Heroes has, where if you're going out with a level 50 friend, and you're only level 15, then he can increase your power to be the same as his power. So you have an easy way to get out there and start having fun PvP. The great thing about this intermediate form of PvP is that it's a really gentle introduction to PvP, because it doesn't matter how good you are, your team is better because you're on it. You know, your team is better the more people who come out into the Mists and play regardless of the skill of those people."

Do you think that players will "boost" anyone that is "out there fighting" with the party, or will they ignore you if your not with them? you know random guy playing ...

I mean, come on, look at Hall of Heros now, players already don't play with other players who don't have the desirable emote. what makes arena net thinks that a level 50 players are gonna boost a level 15 player??


italic font are quotes

Why does everyone on this forum seem entitled to something from anet?

Because we pay them money?

The way I really look at it is...While sure it has it's flaws, GW is one of the most well rounded games I have ever played.At first I hated the level cap, but, in the end its for the best as it keeps things balanced.Everyone has the same chance to do the same things, as anyone else.If you like Assassin, you can go up against anything else, Ele against anything, whatever.I haven't gotten into PVP and some aspects of the game as much as others so I cannot say there, but overall, as far as PVE goes...I love it.Especially with the addition of hard mode, after completing a given campaign, you can then try it again in hard mode, which, for me at least, actually makes the game a challenge, and more fun!And you can always start over with another class and try, it's fun to learn them all to me

And even beyond that, though it is rare, you can meet good people, and have a lot of fun.I really enjoy helping new players get into things too.All in all, given the amount of hours I have gotten out of GW, Factions, Nightfall, and EotN, no other game compares.It has been well worth the money, and I personally have no complaints really because it has more than paid for itself.Even if I only played each campaign once...

I'd like to see a few things different with GW2, but am scared of a few too.I haven't read much on it, but I really hope the new races don't come at the expense of fun classes like Assassin, Ritualist, etc...I'm sure the classes will change given the time it takes place in relation to the current games, but I hope they don't just have cookie cutter classes EVERY RPG has like Warriors, Rangers, etc...( I like those classes I just hope its not ALL they give us )

EDIT: And of course, it is amazing because it provides so much, for a one time payment.I've paid more for dvd's and gotten nowhere near the level of entertainment for the length of time I have with GW.So while it has it's flaws, it MORE than makes up for them.

We still pay, I mean if we buy GW 2. If not, then yeah, fixed.

But we aren't. Paying for GW1, that is. GW2 will be different (see below).

Anyway, I can agree with the lack of end-of-game PvE content, as many others can as well. But this is not Anet's fault really, they didn't expect so many people to stay in PvE, so they never tried hard for PvE content in Prophecies and what they could do with the game they had sometimes backfired (or the GW populous became hypocritic about said changes, take your pick). In the end, GW wasn't designed to be a long-lasting PvE game, but had great enough design elements that encouraged people to play it as such, and it ended up being unsatisfying near the end. That's why they need GW2: to design a very large PvE experience with some of the design elements that made GW1 so popular to make GW2 into the best PvE game they can make.

The thing I'm most afraid about in GW2 is the level cap.

I mean by that that in gw1, the level cap is 20, which means in pvp you don't have to play 20 hours a day to be a high level monk, or anything.

That's what makes places like RA/TA or GvG so exciting. You're perfectly equal with the opposing team, it's your intelligence and good gaming that makes a difference, whereas I'm afraid that in gw2 people who don't play enough won't be able to do high level pvp, just because if the guy facing you has 50 more levels, he'll just own you, however stupid he may be or good you may be.

You seem to have a very specific view of what a game should contain and what it shouldn't.
And it's because of that - only a very specific game will suit you.

Maybe GW just isn't for you.

Personally:
1. Lack of end-game content:
You reach max level in a matter of hours. Combine that with the ability to map-travel - and you have tons of things to do.
You can pretty much view the whole game as end-game content. Especially now with Hard Mode.
And that's just PvE.
2. Massive amount of skills:
I love the possibilities.
Plus PvE leaves room for error (and A LOT of it!) - so not running an optimal build will NOT prevent you from being successful at this game.
3. Lack of features:
The biggest issue with the "hairdresser" is the simple fact that you can't mix hairstyles/faces from various chapters.
4. Trashy economy:
I don't care for it.

So like I said - the game isn't bad - it just might not be a game for you.

An infinite amount?
The point is there is a time were what you payed them can't justify asking for more.
A company couldn't function off the money/demand ratio that many people have here.

Well it's not that I have a specific view of a game, but rather expectations I'd like met to give me the best playing experience. I mean, after reaching level 20, the only things left are to get good equipment and add mods to them to make them the best possible. Then I have to start a new character. The only way I can get any further enjoyment is either playing PvP which I hear is fun, or to start a new character.

Oh, and I like that PvE leaves a lot of room for error, then. I've watched a few videos of trap rangers killing 20+ trolls by making a huge pit of numerous traps. I guess it's trial and error with finding something that works, but that still does leave some big possibilities which are still intimidating.

Something else I'd like to know is whether the economy was trashy early on in the game's history? Because since Guild Wars 2 will be an entirely new game with everyone starting off at square one, can I expect a decent economy at least for some time?

Sorry, but the thing is I always try to do research into games so I don't end up playing a game halfway through and quitting because I didn't like the experience. I try not to waste good money on games I won't enjoy or won't finish.

I'm kind of asking how sure are you that Guild Wars 2 will be an enjoyable experience that will deliver a great experience for new players.

Read the forums, ask, or by experience.

It will be an enjoyable experience for the casual player until they start on GW3 with the promise it will be the ultimate GW once again.

Then again, the problem that arises is that I pretty much will be following cookie-cutter builds. There's a lack of content in some areas, but superfluous content in the skill area. We don't need as many skills, but we could use some more incentive to play our character even after reaching the max level.

The problem, perhaps, with the one time fee arrangement of Guild Wars is that people can't express dissatisfaction with the service by discontinuing its use. The only way they can speak as consumers if displeased is to not purchase future products from the company. I'm sure ANet is aware of this fact, and realizes that keeping the majority happy is important because it will determine future product sales (in this case GW2 and expansions, for some). Because ANet will not see subscriptions rise or fall in response to changes, even the company can't be sure how well it has invested in it's client pool with it's service changes. One thing is certain however: if Guild Wars had been left they way it came out of the box, or skills had been left unchanged after their initial release, the game would have bogged down over time to the point where no one would walk away from it happy. The updates are not only a good marketing move, but an absolutely necessary one. That being said, I haven't seen many players demands too insane on here. An auction house, for example, is not unreasonable, and has been a player request for a very long time. As for a money/demand ratio ... well, it's not like anyone seriously expects ANet to implement every crazy idea out of the Sanitarium ... just the ones that are discussed forever and get bandied about in every forum.

As for the OP:

1. End-Game Content
Guild Wars has a lot of end game content, but it doesn't feel particularly spectacular. One of my favorite things to play in the game is Fort Aspenwood ... I think more end game content where players have secondary goals other than killing other players/mobs and encounter players on a PvE map would work better than one where you kill a giant glowing ape. Personally I always thought it would be awesome to have a Realm of the Gods type area that would have several outposts under the control of the gods vying for resources (souls, followers, whatever). You would enter the map with a randomly generated team from the outpost and compete against other deities' teams for these resources while fighting the dark god armies and opposing god forces patrolling the terrain. If you die, you get sent back to the outpost after 30 seconds (if not raised) and have to enter the mission again (lining you up in a queue behind others already waiting) ... it would be a continuous battle that would reward points for resources obtained and provide special items and bonuses to players who followed the 'winning' god, determined at the end of each week. Some items rewarded this way could be used in the conflict, like trap and catapult kits or control over a small force of level 10 NPC henchmen ... anyway, I agree that this could be better, but I think it's a matter of quality, not quantity.

2. Superfluous Amounts of Skills
While I agree that superfluous skills are bad, a large skill set is not, provided that the skills are viable ... it's all a matter of balance and function. If a skill can provide a truly unique function while remaining balanced, great. If a skill can be balanced while still providing a unique function, great. Otherwise, not so great.

3. The Economy
In Guild Wars, the economy is stupid. Put simply, the concept of an economy shouldn't matter because the types of players the game should attract are those who prefer function over form (or game play over glitz, as the case may be). An economy only really matters in a world with disparities ... in a game that focuses on making everyone equal, with personal skill as the only qualifying factor of effectiveness, no true disparities (should) exist to generate a thriving economy. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, unless you're into RMTing (which you shouldn't be). In real life, if you could create the perfect world where money was not needed, you wouldn't need to be ashamed of a non-existent economy. Same thing here ... in fact, the economy of Guild Wars was never as ridiculous as many other online games simply because there is no difference between a green weapon, a gold weapon and a blue weapon with the same modifiers. Unique, rare or common, they all do the same thing ... so trading only occurs for aesthetic reasons, which aren't as pressing as performance reasons.

Umm i have played with the same character for over 2 years and i dont see a problem doing it for 2 more. Never even crossed my mind to make another 1 so i gues your wrong about after Lvl 20 there is nothing else to do.

In my experience after lvl 20 builds matter more then equipment as said in posts above HUGE selections of skills for one proffesion opens possibilities for creating unique builds...but wait we have what 10 other pofesions to combine it with umm yeah i think you would have lots and lots of possibilities after lvl 20. And you know Skill>Time that GW was advertising since day 1 it still holds up to a certain point.

NOt a PvP person but im sure tons of fun there. AS for economy never bothered me (personal opinion)

You have to experience GW to judge it. And im sure GW 2 wont be a let-down proffesionals work on it you know people who do that for a living and they wont make stupid,huge,irreversable mistakes. But non-the-less mistakes you can expect

Just my 2 cents ~Ghost Omel~

I think thats a total misconception you have there Kain. In the original Prophecies, it took ages to get to level 20, and only then did the real meat of the game open up to you (although it is possible to finish the game at a much lower level if you have people run you). On your journey to lvl 20, you had the opportunity to explore different environments including some of the most breath taking I've ever seen in a game, learn numerous skills, work out which of those skills you were comfortable with and worked and basically learn the game.

In Factions and Nightfall, the race to lvl 20 became much shorter, specifically I think coz Anet were trying to cater for old and new players. But again, once you hit lvl 20, only then does the real game open up to you - once you get out of the starter area, the real challenge begins, its just that in Prophs you do this at circa lvl 8-9 and in Factions and NF its lvl 19-20.

So lvl 20 is most definately not end of for a particular character.

Hope that helps to clarify something for you.

Rich

In addition to above posts, I get the impression from a lot of people around here that the level cap is bad. lolwut?

As soon as you start raising the level cap it becomes WoW which is a game based around the amount of time you've played and the gear you've collected. The beauty of Guild Wars is that (at least before Ursan/PvE skills) skill > time played. I would much rather play a game that rewards you for being a good player than a game that rewards you like "You've played 1000 hours! Have epic mount plz." *yes, I know that's not quite how it works but I'm making a point*

If they raise the level cap, it had better be 30 max. If they start aiming for 50, 60, 70, etc. like WoW then they probably lose my entire guild along with tons of other paying customers. Not to mention having multiple characters on one account is pretty much eliminated. If I wanted to play WoW I'd play WoW. I want my Guild Wars back.

Keep in mind they could make the xp tables different. Such as making the process of getting from level 1 to 2 take the same amount of time as getting from level 1 to 3. Basically they could just lower the amount of xp needed to level up, but increase the level cap by a lot too.

I'm not asking for an incredibly long grinding time for leveling, I just think we could spend more time leveling. I mean if some people here have been playing their characters here for 2 years, it wouldn't be ridiculous to increase the level grinding time to get to max level in 6 - 8 months, would it?

Level 20 sounds like a 1 to 2 month training session.

I might as well add some input here since I as well went from WoW to Guild Wars.

The reason I stopped playing WoW was because of boredom. I got to about level 43 and didn't have any interest in continuing playing. All in all it was a fantastic experience until I got tired of the routine of grind leveling. The game just turned into pulling mobs in a similar fashion every time, casting the same exact routing over and over, without hardly any difference in the quests except mind numbing collect x items or kill x mobs. I may have enjoyed end game content, but the crap you got to go through to get there isn't worth the time IMO.

This is one of the advantages Guild Wars has. A lot of the quests are a lot of fun to read and are really well done. A lot of people like to skip cut sequences or don't read the quest text, but Guild Wars is one of those games where you do NOT want to miss out on that part of the game. You will notice that most people opt to skip cut sequences. If you're in a hurry to level up like I was, skip the sequences and read through quests quickly. However you will be missing a lot of well done interesting side quests and main storyline. Your first character you will be inclined to progress, and when you progress a lot of things will change to give you a fresh experience. The grinding in Guild Wars doesn't start until you are going for titles, which isn't manditory to play the game, more of a way of saying "respect me, I'm very important" or whatever. However this has changed a bit with the addition of the Hall of Monuments.

Another plus is the way you can get into teams with other people, and PvP. When you progress in Guild Wars, you have a selection of henchmen and heroes, heroes which you can equip weapons and skills with to choose from to either fill in the gaps or form an entire team out of. This way you can easily accomplish most quests in the game (some near the end can get particularly difficult though). This allows for a game which requires teamplay no matter what you're doing, but you can still either play alone or in a group.

You then have the mission layout in which it seems like just another outpost, but with people actually looking to join up and fight cooperatively. This way you end up meeting tons of people randomly, in a more structured format, and accomplish the same goal with each other. I found myself playing cooperatively much more often with Guild Wars, it is really easy to meet up with people and just do whatever.

PvE has a lot to offer, a lot more positives and negatives that I can point out in a post. About the economy, this game isn't really reliant on economy to be successful, it's has it's up and downs like any economy, and it does change a lot. If you grind for expensive items, buy weapons that are rare and prestige, you got to remember don't pull your hair out trying to obtain them because the price may drop drastically for one reason or another. There are always new things added to the game which will be the new flavor, so just sit back and don't worry about trying to achieve prosperity for the reason of buying expensive rare items.

The things you have to worry about in this game aren't really relevant until you have played around 1200+ hours. Even then, the problems with the games economy, are not relevant to your enjoyment or success in the game. Since you can get greens for real cheap now, you have a large selection of weapons to select from when can invest 9 attribute points and also have access to one of the main cities.

You also get a completely different kind of art style in this game. Prophesy is the old school medieval/fantasy campaign, Factions the asian dynasty/fantasy campaign, and Nightfall the Persian/fantasy campaign, all tied in with some greek mythology type stuff. Then Eye of the North is a much more drastic experience, which is similar to Prophesy but with more extreme fantasy than medieval.

nothing

121212121212

^^^

Same here, infact I think I owe them, all those hundreds of hours of gameplay with no monthly fees, geez and thats just prophecies and eotn, cantwait to try the rest.

Which reminds me, does anyone know If the 2 for 1 bundled versions have 2 seperate keys? I want to add Factions to my existing account but I can only find Factions bundled with Prophecies which isnt a problem since its still cheap except I need to know if it will let me add factions to my original prophecies account? Anyone whos bought one of these bundled version Id appreciate any info.

PvP IS the endgame to guildwars - it was designed and balanced around rich full PvP ... you can't complain there is no endgame when you just aren't doing it.... you are missing fully half of the game...

There is only one thing I can say to this:

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! HAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

A LOT TO OFFER!?!?!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PvE has been reduced to a pointless grindfest inhabited by elitist pricks and morons. You don't have to worry about using the hundreds of skills - once you realize what this game is all about, you'll be using one skill. [skill]Ursan Blessing[/skill] Just like everyone else.

Anet can offer about a 1 month length of enjoyment, after that, you pretty much have nothing else to do but POINTLESS grind.

In WoW, grind is actually worth it, as your character would get stronger. Many people don't like the grind in WoW because you actually PAY for your playing time, and don't wanna waste your playing time on grind. On the other hand, GW is free, it should be okay to have a higher level cap that allows players to play towards something more benefitial, rather than just a random title under their name.

PvE is where i see most lacking. Granted, this game isn't meant for PvE. However, the days of marketing this game for PvP is over. I think we all know and realize that the majority of the people, including long time players and noobs, spend the majority of the time playing PvE. Anet needs to cater to the majority, and start improving the PvE part. I say screw the balancing part (not saying URSAN is ok). Make the level cap be ~60. Let character level MATTER.

IIRC, the devs said that there would be a "plateau" effect applied to leveling. Meaning, I assume, that after a certain level your improvements are minuscule to nothing. I envision this as it is now. After you "level" up from 20 (in GW1) you get a skill point that can be used for more skills, consumables, etc. I imagine the same will be for GW2. A level 280 E/Me wouldn't be that much more powerful than a level 75 E/Me stat-wise, but you would be able to instantly tell that the level 280 has much more playtime experience and, therefore, is a more serious and potentially skilled player. (notice I said "potentially." I've seen many dedicated players that are just as bad or worse than some casual players)

So, it's a bit premature to jump to the conclusion that higher levels means continued stat-climbing like in WoW. We simply have to wait until more information is available and are left to merely speculate on what the devs are striving for.

-edit-

The problem with "making the character level matter" is that you immediately create a huge disconnect. Currently, GW is (for better or for worse) partly to heavily geared towards casual players. Hence the "no monthly fee" approach. If you make it like WoW, where the level matters more than the equipped skills and knowledge of the player, you are shooting the entire premise that GW was based on in the foot. In essence, it ceases to be GW and becomes another WoW clone. I think level should matter, but it should not be such a barrier that it disenfranchises new and casual players, which I would be willing to bet comprises of the vast majority of GW's playerbase.

Anet's model was designed to be different .. it was more like:

"Hey .. everyone knows that increasing level is a facade of progress. You get more hitpoints and damage .. the monsters get more hitpoints and damage. Wheres the progress? Instead, we will measure progress by coming up with innovative builds, strategies and combinations. Defeating other players with the same capabilities in a skill>time competition. We know our players are too smart to be suckered into the 'me get more hitpoints = me stronger' mentality".

Then again maybe not. That's where Anet failed.

the fun starts when your 20...

In response to the subject title:

Hundreds of hours of enjoyable gameplay.

To me it sounds like GW is too hot for you to handle in this aspect. This is one of things where it sets GW apart from other games. I've played other traditional MMOs, and let me tell you, you cannot do HALF the shit in those that you can GW. It takes pure ingenuity to come up with some of the incredible things people have done in guild wars, and large part of that is because of skill diversity and combinations.

Despite the introductions of some skills and a couple other failures on aNet's part, this game was, and still is to some degree, based more on skill, thought processing and adaptation than most other games.

GW is not like other MMOs and I don't want it to be, so go away . There's other mindless games where you can grind to level 1000000 with 15 skills and be 1337.

If you're coming from WoW to GW and you liked WoW, you won't like GW. The exact same can be said of going from GW to WoW.

I wouldn't say GW having too many skills is "too hot to handle" as much as it is intimidating. Couple that with the fact that most of them suck and it can be a bit hard to chew for your average player.

One last thing: GW lacking endgame isn't a "flaw". It's not an MMO.

With every GW box comes free with a licence to QQ. What more could you ask for?

IMO, you are missing out OP, Guild Wars is so unique compare to other Online games out there.

If it's that bad, the lvl 20 cap thing, this many players will already stop to play a long time ago. In reality, I think almost at least 1 or 2 new players are starting fresh per day.

Also one thing need to be noted.. "No grind" is quite attainable in Guild Wars, because what you need to do to get a perfect weapon stat is easy, and many many solutions. For example, instead of crafting weapons or buy from other player, you can just get the collector version which cost nothing, just need certain items to be traded. Same with armor, you get max armor, you done, you are as good equipped as the other players. Weapons and elite armor arts in GW, puts the word "pure vanity" correctly.

Just get it if it's bad for your taste (which I think no) think of it like just buying another crappy games for your consoles which I am sure some of you have done this ^^ With no monthly fee, you can play and come back anytime and not only that, but when you come back, everything will be the same, gamplay wise, so you can just try to remember and that's it, back in the game already

Anyway just my 2 cents..

-tora-

Never played World of Warcraft. And by that I mean creating an account and playing it for myself. Occasionally my sister will invite me to play a PvP game on WoW while she goes to get a snack/drink. Other than pressing random buttons on the keyboard from 1 - 10, I didn't know what the hell I was doing or what any individual skill was used for.

I'm also getting the impression that I'm being flamed for presenting an argument that I've only had about a week to analyze... I don't think that's very right. If I got something wrong, point it out to me and explain how you see the game from your perspective.

Flaming or trolling a guy who doesn't even have the experience of creating a character is taking things a bit too far, considering the only thing I've done is analyze some common complaints on the boards about GW.

That is something they can't offer me asI want one set atleast after playing by the rules all this time.I didn't want it at first but now I do and as favour dwindles down there isn't much of a chance of me getting this even though ecto price is going down.I wouldn't mind getting some of my own but I am not a power farmer.

It would be nice if there was an alternative to FoW that looked similar without using ecto and shards just other types of crafting materials although with slighly different look.

Here is what your analysis misses ... GuildWars was not designed to be another typical MMO. It was designed to be totally different .. with two premises in mind:
1. Balanced PvP - where skill determines the outcome (not who has the leet-est gear)
2. Balanced PvE - where you don't have to grind for 5000 hours just to be able to do the end areas ... but you have to be skilled to complete them

(this isn't necesarily how the game turned out .. but this was the initial design premise)

Once you understand this premise you will understand why your comlaints are off-base. There are no super weapons or high levels .. by specific design .. they were trying to achieve the exact opposite goal .. a game that DIDN'T require you to grind for all of that stuff. A game where skill > time played.

Regarding your specific points:

1. PvP is the endgame .. if you aren't doing it you are missing 50% of the game.
2. There are many areas and many game modes (across pvp and pve) most akills that seem useless are actually quite useful somewhere (well except tease...)
3. The game wasnt even supposed to have an economy ... thats why there is no auction house ... it only has an economy because people are bored. You can get all the max gear you want from collectors for minimal cost. But people are bored and have cash, so an economy for 'pretty' items has evolved.

Lol, you are basically saying you want free WoW...

Many of your questions are going to depend on what you are looking for in a game and you also seem to have some misconceptions about GW too. First off it is not a traditional MMO so forget nearly everything you "know".

You see, I view it as the opposite. In other MMO's there is no content - there is grind. Playing the same dungeon 10,000 to get you armor isn't "content". GW has almost none of that and what little there is isn't a game breaker if you do not do it. However they have many end-game areas that are intended to be played, not farmed, and they also tend to want you to PvP as end game.

If your end game is farming and grind (and it seems it may be) then GW is going to royally suck. If you consider end-game content stuff to play through after beating the game then GW has quite a bit.

In PvE the game slowly introduces you to those skills and you should pay attention to what enemies are using. It's not really that hard to do, it sounds worse than it is. Really the PvE game is more about effective teamwork and knowledge of what you are facing - making sure you have a really effective build isn't that big until you either start trying for titles or PvP - and that is intended for end game players

Yes, I do agree with this one - GW lacks a good amount of customization that other online games has. But then that's never really been something I cared much about anyway - just something to goof off with.

This one also depends on what you mean by a "good economy". To me a good in game economy is that any player can reasonably expect to purchase top end equipment. GW is that way, cost is in skins and looks. IMO this is the best economy of any online game I have ever played - I can go play the game and not have to grind for hours just to get something I need to go to the next area.

The trade system is still borked and appears as if it will always be (until GW2). But then max level armor and max weapons are cheap and easy to come by - you have no need to waste time selling loot so you can buy armor to further your ability to explore new dungeons as max level armor is cheap and easy to obtain. It may not be the skin or color you want, but that doesn't stop you from playing the game.

If you want a grind based game where there are haves and have nots then I have every bit of faith that Anet will not satisfy you. Even with things like the advertised no level caps they also expressed that at a fairly quick point that you will quit gaining power and it will be cosmetic.

As of right now Prophecies is quit cheap - I think that GW2 will still be GW and the core design philosophies will not change. They will only have a different implementation. Many are currently reading only the parts they like of what Anet says and ignoring the rest (for instance many are ignoring the part where you quit gaining power quickly and instead focus on the "no level cap" - they will be highly disappointed and claim Anet lied to them). I would say it would be best to just buy it and play for a bit - cheaper to find out now that you really do not like a fairly level playing field with a cheap game than wait until GW2 comes out.