do you think perma-shadow now makes 55 monk "obsolete?"
Dark Paladin X
Ever since the shadow form buff, I've notice there are more assassin farmers than monks. And not to mention it, 55 monk now completely sucks due to it's fragility, and limited protection from interrupts and enchantment removal (except for [Spell Breaker], but it does NOT protect you from interrupts and enchantment removal that are NOT spells, while Shadow Form does except for skills that are labeled "skill," "signet," or "traps," as well as AoE spells that does not require a target. In addition, when a 55 monk suffer degeneration, s/he's screwed. However, a perma-shadow doesn't really have to worry about degeneration unless something indirectly inflict degen like traps. Also, the perma-shadow can farm more places than a 55 monk can (and farming areas that a 55 monk can do can also be done by perma-shadow). so, would you consider perma-shadow, the new "55 monk," and makes the actual 55 monk, well, let say, sucks and so obsolete?
MisterT69
55 is pretty much an average build. It can farm a bunch of places, and tank in rare occasions. But because of the fact that it's pretty slow, and usually requires a partner or hero for damage, it really is an inferior choice to [Shadow Form] sins and even most ele builds, considering the speed at which these builds operate compared to the 55.
farmerfez
55 has been obsolete for awhile lol
Ambuu
55 is good in places where there is AoE damage, since perma sins cant take too much of that without a lot of healing.
Chthon
Depends what you're farming. 55 can still farm things that produce AoE or signet damage that would kill a permasin.
strcpy
55's have not been the main farmers for a while now. The last nail in their coffin was the nerf to mystic regen (though that is now removed other skill buffs keep them a good third place or so)
However they have places they do quite well, better than a sin or ele. There are quite a few ranger groups that they can easily kill but are hard to kill with fire spells or sliver armor. There are places that have heavy degen or AoE damage that hits the sin that they take out quite well. There are also a number of two man farming runs that work quite well with them.
Heck, I still even have a place for my 130hp dervish. There aren't many places, but there are still some places that I find it has the fastest time through the run.
However they have places they do quite well, better than a sin or ele. There are quite a few ranger groups that they can easily kill but are hard to kill with fire spells or sliver armor. There are places that have heavy degen or AoE damage that hits the sin that they take out quite well. There are also a number of two man farming runs that work quite well with them.
Heck, I still even have a place for my 130hp dervish. There aren't many places, but there are still some places that I find it has the fastest time through the run.
jbwarrior
Sins can't do the smites, zealots fire hits the sin.... even with SF on... so the sin needs a lot of healing...
Also the sins would have a problem against the Charged Blacknesses, shock, whirlwind... to much dmg, so you cannot outheal
Also the sins would have a problem against the Charged Blacknesses, shock, whirlwind... to much dmg, so you cannot outheal
Abedeus
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbwarrior
Sins can't do the smites, zealots fire hits the sin.... even with SF on... so the sin needs a lot of healing...
Or run A/E with earth prayers and get stoneflesh aura? ;d
It's A Me
OR just stick to what you can farm, its not like there is an abundance of places lol
Dae GW
I completely disagree with this, when you are talking about the 55 build with the regeneration from mending + healing breeze, true. But there are SO many variations of the normal 55 build. The 55 CAN tank unlimited groups, and i think the 55 can still farm more than the SF, but its a bit harder. And people become lazy this times, so the only thing they want to do is click [Deadly Paradox] + [Glyph of Swiftness] + [Shadow Form].
It's true that the 55 needs a partner in most of the area's, but the killing goes faster, so say that you gain 3 ecto's per run of uw, and a SF gets 6. The 55/ss can do 2 runs in the time that an SF does 1, so that means you gain the same profit.
It's true that the 55 needs a partner in most of the area's, but the killing goes faster, so say that you gain 3 ecto's per run of uw, and a SF gets 6. The 55/ss can do 2 runs in the time that an SF does 1, so that means you gain the same profit.
weretoad
and another funny way to look at is, if an assassin farmer and monk farmer wondered into pvp, by mistake, the monk would win wit a bit of lcuk
Mr. Undisclosed
Sorry to break it to you bud but 55 has been obsolete for a while now.
Elite Bushido
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbwarrior
Sins can't do the smites, zealots fire hits the sin.... even with SF on... so the sin needs a lot of healing...
Also the sins would have a problem against the Charged Blacknesses, shock, whirlwind... to much dmg, so you cannot outheal
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:A/E_UW_Farmer
you were sayin? hell that build is crazy old too... you must have just forgot about it
Also the sins would have a problem against the Charged Blacknesses, shock, whirlwind... to much dmg, so you cannot outheal
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:A/E_UW_Farmeryou were sayin? hell that build is crazy old too... you must have just forgot about it
Lest121
600 made 55 obsolete.
Age
Yes. I do think the 55 is obsolete with A/Es running around not only the 55s but most other farming as well like the W/Rit.The 600 didn't make the 55 obsolete.Mystic Regen didn't make the 55 Obsolete as there is Healing Breeze and you can't use MR on a Mo/Mes or /W.
This why I am stongly in favour of Balance to SF so that there are balanced farming builds for everyone.
This why I am stongly in favour of Balance to SF so that there are balanced farming builds for everyone.
Dae GW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Bushido
masta_yoda
55's cant farm ectos as fast as sf
and farming anything besides ecto is a waste of time for making $$
and farming anything besides ecto is a waste of time for making $$
Dark Paladin X
but 55s can't farm ectos in solo because of nightmares that remove enchantments and they have to way to protect themselves from interrupts caused by Bladed Aaxtes and Grasping Darknesses
kdz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X
but 55s can't farm ectos in solo because of nightmares that remove enchantments and they have to way to protect themselves from interrupts caused by Bladed Aaxtes and Grasping Darknesses
that is just not true - 55 can farm aatxes, graspings, coldfires, and smites - it's just matter of timing, and practice
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by underverse_ninja
600 made 55 obsolete.
The only purpose of running 600 health was for the smite return damage. 600 health is not needed for Spirit Bond. The skills that allow a 55 to tank are the same as a 600, because all that varies between the two is the offense type.
Strictly speaking, a 55 can tank infinite enemies with SoA/regen/whatever else gets thrown on the bar. Enemies have life steal? Just up your health to 105 or 135, SB and SoA still work just as well. Now that regen isn't a must-have for tanking because of newer skills, running minimum health isn't a necessity. Calling a build '55' or '600' is what is obsolete, as a good monk tank can rotate health amounts depending on the foes. See full UW clearing runs.
Considering monks can get perma-SB, high regen, and reduction of all damage to 0, as well as use skills like SV because they still get hit, I would say SF doesn't make it obsolete. On the other hand, skillbar compression allows SF builds to bring more offense and thus perform better as solo farmers, so it depends on your goal somewhat.
Strictly speaking, a 55 can tank infinite enemies with SoA/regen/whatever else gets thrown on the bar. Enemies have life steal? Just up your health to 105 or 135, SB and SoA still work just as well. Now that regen isn't a must-have for tanking because of newer skills, running minimum health isn't a necessity. Calling a build '55' or '600' is what is obsolete, as a good monk tank can rotate health amounts depending on the foes. See full UW clearing runs.
Considering monks can get perma-SB, high regen, and reduction of all damage to 0, as well as use skills like SV because they still get hit, I would say SF doesn't make it obsolete. On the other hand, skillbar compression allows SF builds to bring more offense and thus perform better as solo farmers, so it depends on your goal somewhat.
cerb
SF excels in solo, monk in duo. One does not make the other obsolete, it depends what you're doing.
And as Avarre said, there is no 55 > 600 or 600 < 55. There is no "55" or "600". There is the i-monk with PS and that's that.
Age
I wouldn't mind knowing what your skill bar looks like as I see Avvare's.
BLOODGOAT
Depends on the enemies. That's all.
Washi
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerb
there is no 55 > 600 or 600 < 55.
That's exactly the same lol 
thebullion24k
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
Quote: Originally Posted by Avarre Strictly speaking, a 55 can tank infinite enemies with SoA/regen/whatever else gets thrown on the bar. Enemies have life steal? Just up your health to 105 or 135, SB and SoA still work just as well. Now that regen isn't a must-have for tanking because of newer skills, running minimum health isn't a necessity. Calling a build '55' or '600' is what is obsolete, as a good monk tank can rotate health amounts depending on the foes. See full UW clearing runs. Again, the fact that with the 600 you don't need to switch armors out to compensate for life steal makes it better, not drastic but an advantage none the less.
Quote:
Well I was referring to 2-man groups in all cases (either SS, Smite, or hybrid as offense). I've used a variety of offense, the optimal depends on what you're fighting. For HM smiting is going to win, because of how mob retreating works, but in NM I'm fairly sure SS/Reckless drops foes faster.|
Originally Posted by Avarre
Considering monks can get perma-SB, high regen, and reduction of all damage to 0, as well as use skills like SV because they still get hit, I would say SF doesn't make it obsolete. On the other hand, skillbar compression allows SF builds to bring more offense and thus perform better as solo farmers, so it depends on your goal somewhat.
Just because you can mimick a build doesn't mean they are both the same, their goals are, but not the concept and usage... The way how you get to that point of mimicking it is what makes the difference... The new SF meta UW farmer is too easy to use... Give a noob a solo monk and let's see if he can run it and clear chaos plains as fast and easy as the SF...
I do agree however, that the monks can out perform the SF in different scenarios... I would also say that the 600 > the 55, in most situations making it obsolete over the 55.
cerb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Washi
That's exactly the same lol
haha you're right. That's what happens when you never sleep :P@Age: it's been a while and I formatted my computer (so I lost template files and all my screenshots for upcoming update on The Art of UW including HM ... noooooo!) but my build looked like this: [skill]protective spirit[/skill][skill]spirit bond[/skill][skill]shield of absorption[/skill][skill]glyph of swiftness[/skill][skill]spell breaker[/skill][skill]life bond[/skill][skill]essence bond[/skill][skill]blessed aura[/skill] Gear and runes I can't tell exactly from memory (it was a well-thought thing, not like fill all pieces with the same rune) but attributes must have been 12+1+3 DF, 12+2 Prot, rest in Air. Avarre had (if I recall correctly) 11+1+3 Curses, 11 Smiting Prayers (we had calculated this to be the biggest damage output/speed ratio from my equipment), 6 Prot. I posted about it one or two times on the forums about it though so if you're interested you can search my posts 
Alastair
55 died for me a few months after the 105 nerf to prot bond. If I can't have ezmode, I just don't want to deal with it.
SF is much more entertaining though... /lazy -Alastair
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebullion24k
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cerb
Avarre had (if I recall correctly) 12+1+2 Curses, 11 Smiting Prayers (we had calculated this to be the biggest damage output/speed ratio from my equipment), 6 Prot.
I actually think it was 11+1+3 Curses.
Rakim B
Monk = undead + other fun and awesome farming locations
SF sin = underworld and green farmer benefits to having a monk - you can play the monk when you aren't farming benefits to having an assasin- none. Once you're done farming you log off because no one wants to play an assasin
Mr. Undisclosed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakim B
Monk = undead + other fun and awesome farming locations
SF sin = underworld and green farmer benefits to having a monk - you can play the monk when you aren't farming benefits to having an assasin- none. Once you're done farming you log off because no one wants to play an assasin Your post is made of so much fail. Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakim B
Monk = undead + other fun and awesome farming locations
SF sin = underworld and green farmer benefits to having a monk - you can play the monk when you aren't farming benefits to having an assasin- none. Once you're done farming you log off because no one wants to play an assasin lol. Who's this "No One" by the way?
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerb
haha you're right. That's what happens when you never sleep :P
@Age: it's been a while and I formatted my computer (so I lost template files and all my screenshots for upcoming update on The Art of UW including HM ... noooooo!) but my build looked like this: [skill]protective spirit[/skill][skill]spirit bond[/skill][skill]shield of absorption[/skill][skill]glyph of swiftness[/skill][skill]spell breaker[/skill][skill]life bond[/skill][skill]essence bond[/skill][skill]blessed aura[/skill] Gear and runes I can't tell exactly from memory (it was a well-thought thing, not like fill all pieces with the same rune) but attributes must have been 12+1+3 DF, 12+2 Prot, rest in Air. Avarre had (if I recall correctly) 11+1+3 Curses, 11 Smiting Prayers (we had calculated this to be the biggest damage output/speed ratio from my equipment), 6 Prot. I posted about it one or two times on the forums about it though so if you're interested you can search my posts
I assume this is at 55 and would life bond be for your partner?I thought you might have glyph of swiftness.
cerb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
I assume this is at 55 and would life bond be for your partner?I thought you might have glyph of swiftness.
No in HM it's 600. Actually you have about 4XX or 5XX and Vital Blessing gives you barely enough HP to deal max damage with HW/Retrib @ 11 Smiting. I haven't opened GW ever since I wrote The Art of Underworld so I can't tell you exactly what the gear/runes were like but basically it's a modded version of 600/Smite where the smiter is a hybrid smite/SS (duh) and switches to SS for places like Twin Serpent Mountains, Spawning Pools, and of course Four Horsemen/Terrorweb Queen/Stalker/Ice King.
Life Bond is only used in Four Horsemen. Basically you need a shitload energy since the aggro WILL get messed up and you will have to deal with dryders attacking you while keeping the reaper alive. So you bond the reaper, keep SpellBreaker and SoA on him and with Balts you will have enough energy to spam Spirit Bond on yourself. And then when the Dryders are dead, team members just split and the monk just focuses on keeping the reaper alive while the necro focuses the reaper's target. Pretty much the same as in NM actually, except that you NEED life bond so that you get enough energy because BR just won't be enough here (and the necro has to stay far). You could replace GoE with arcane echo if you don't want to use Essence of Celerity, but that run was our only full HM run so I figured it'd be better use the safest GoE+Celerity combo as the run was only a proof of concept. That's pretty much the only way it is logically possible to clear UW in HM with 2 people. Of course, I encourage attempts in proving me wrong :-) sonofsailor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakim B
benefits to having an assasin- none. Once you're done farming you log off because no one wants to play an assasin
because sins are usless in pvp i know
55 monk isnt dead just not used because people want fast/easy ways to make as much money as possible i prefer monk but atm im taking advantage of sin to get last 20 or so ectos for my monk's FoW armor, sides the way i see it only a matter of time before they change SF back then how many people delete their sins?
Dark Paladin X
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofsailor
because sins are usless in pvp i know
55 monk isnt dead just not used because people want fast/easy ways to make as much money as possible i prefer monk but atm im taking advantage of sin to get last 20 or so ectos for my monk's FoW armor, sides the way i see it only a matter of time before they change SF back then how many people delete their sins? Or go off starting a riot? Speaking of which, there hasn't any recorded riots or protest over a nerf in GW history, I wonder why? Anyways, back on topic, I wish the ANet won't change Shadow Form, or it'll ruin my dream to get an everlasting automatonic or everlasting beetle juice tonic together, but I do believe I might go for SS necro when Shadow Form gets nerfed and find a 55 monk tank, since I heard tanking is the hardest job for the SS/55 monk duo, although I might find doing farming runs in a duo a bit ineffective due to disagreements with partners. In fact, perma-shadow doesn't rely on partners while 55/600 monks does in certain scenarios.
Mr. Undisclosed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X
Or go off starting a riot?
Speaking of which, there hasn't any recorded riots or protest over a nerf in GW history, I wonder why? Anyways, back on topic, I wish the ANet won't change Shadow Form, or it'll ruin my dream to get an everlasting automatonic or everlasting beetle juice tonic together, but I do believe I might go for SS necro when Shadow Form gets nerfed and find a 55 monk tank, since I heard tanking is the hardest job for the SS/55 monk duo, although I might find doing farming runs in a duo a bit ineffective due to disagreements with partners. In fact, perma-shadow doesn't rely on partners while 55/600 monks does in certain scenarios. Seriously, plz shut up about the tonics you mention it in every thread. Spiritz
Ok dont kno if this been said already in thread but 55 monks are still usefull and used , 55 mo/d with mystic regen can still farm undead around bergen and Gok as well as fahranur in nf.
Its not that the 55 has been replaced but less used due to sins- replace would be when anet nerfed the mystic regen and ppl reverted bk to pure monks and mo/d was slowly left alone bar a few hardcore farmers who used it. Also you put a perma sf sin in the gok mob ( arguements sake say nm ) vs 55 monk doin same and 55 monk will pwn it - x2 dmg to undead - same can be said for 600/smite team but in hm. Also perma sf sin relies on you being a/e or a/me only - 55 monk has many alts like necro,mes,ele,war,derv and will function with a few of their skills. As with all professions in gw each has their own places of farming and use - i dont think theres 1 that will farm everywhere and everything - and before someone gets cocky and says yes and has ursan in build - ursans not a profession  .Anywhere with enchant stripping is lethal and anything like wells or energy denial will be a problem and one thing 55 has over sin - touchers dont bother us as we can outlast degen and touch dmg ( not sure about some places but have high survival anyway ). And i do use both monk and sin for farming with and enjoy using both Scarn
Perma-SF definitely makes certain 55 builds less viable due to speed and difficulty reasons. However, some farms are still done most effectively by an invincimonk.
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X
Or go off starting a riot?
Speaking of which, there hasn't any recorded riots or protest over a nerf in GW history, I wonder why? Anyways, back on topic, I wish the ANet won't change Shadow Form, or it'll ruin my dream to get an everlasting automatonic or everlasting beetle juice tonic together, but I do believe I might go for SS necro when Shadow Form gets nerfed and find a 55 monk tank, since I heard tanking is the hardest job for the SS/55 monk duo, although I might find doing farming runs in a duo a bit ineffective due to disagreements with partners. In fact, perma-shadow doesn't rely on partners while 55/600 monks does in certain scenarios. There was to over the Warrior Absorbtion rune nerf as to all damage.This stopped a lot of good Warriors from running Droks and went on to make 55 Monks as there new source of income and now look at it.Those who had 1 or 2 extra char slots went and made up a Sin just for farming. I know a lot of those Warriors who quit the game as result from that nerf as well as some were on my friends list.
Bowstring Badass
Neither both have there uses.
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