AR gives you cracked armor and it takes 2 much energy and 2 much of thinking :P
so i made this
[Holy Chanter's Skills;OQGjUqmLqS+iWYmYtbXF1Y5i7YA]
yeey meeee
what i do i use 8, rush with group to mobs than 3,4,5,7 and spam atack 1 and buff with 2 go for the eyes its also good in full party for energy maintain when 5 goes out i use 3,4,6,7 when all dead 8 yeeeehaaaaaaaaa :P
its a fun build
And remember never fight alone!
i hate maintaining agresive refrain so i made this (pve)
Holy Chanter
Bowstring Badass
Having trouble maintaining AR? lul wut
Once you use AR once you shouldn't have any trouble keeping it up. But this seems kind of baed with no AR. And monsters in PvE are to stupid to notice the cracked armor. And needs more [save yourselves (luxon)] and [theres nothing to fear].
Once you use AR once you shouldn't have any trouble keeping it up. But this seems kind of baed with no AR. And monsters in PvE are to stupid to notice the cracked armor. And needs more [save yourselves (luxon)] and [theres nothing to fear].
Abedeus
Too much thinking? Use Anthem of Flame/Weakness every 10 seconds is SO hard? Wow. Don't try pvp, then.
Also, Save Yourselves > Stand Your Ground.
Also, Save Yourselves > Stand Your Ground.
zelgadissan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass
Having trouble maintaining AR? lul wut
That pretty much covers everything I was going to say. [Stand Your Ground!] looks pretty bad when [There's Nothing to Fear!] is an option for a PvE Paragon. You're forgiven for not having [Save Yourselves!] if you don't have Factions, but there's also really no excuse for that either.
In short - you could do worse, but you could do a LOT better.
In short - you could do worse, but you could do a LOT better.
Holy Chanter
but with stand your ground and for great justice you get 100% +33%attack speed pumping go for the eyes and spear attack, i could drop vanguard skill in difficult places and fall back for rezz or smthn. normal para dps is slow and without AR you can actually tank like in ring of fire missions with easy
Tyla
AR is only 8% less IAS, and it's free, infinite and doesn't take up an elite slot. There is absolutely no reason not to take it.
Rhamia Darigaz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Chanter
but with stand your ground and for great justice you get 100% +33%attack speed pumping go for the eyes and spear attack, i could drop vanguard skill in difficult places and fall back for rezz or smthn. normal para dps is slow and without AR you can actually tank like in ring of fire missions with easy
the thing is though that stand your ground directly conflicts with kiting, one of the best ways to mitigate damage. its generally not good to bring bad skills so that you can be lazy and not maintain better ones.
edit: also, tanking's bad
edit: also, tanking's bad
Vann Borakul
Well, heroes act retarded with the constant condition removal.
Lishy
"They're on fire" is a great skill to keep it up and great for damage reduction if you have a searing flames hero team.
Richardt
Yeah...if you want to buff your party in PvE with armor, SY>Stand Your Ground.
Stand Your Ground is just not the greatest skill (neglecting Enduring for a sec.)-currently your build is 11 Command, and SYG only lasts 16s with a 30s recharge! In NM most mobs will be dead by then (excepting of course massive healing on the enemy side), but in HM it's a different story.
In addition your argument about Aggressive Refrain is just flawed-granted you might not like hitting a skill every few seconds-but considering AR is effectively permanent and unstrippable-it's well worth it. And the Cracked Armor-[dismiss conditions] says hi.
And even with Enduring Harmony you still have a 15s cool down with FGJ. And then you got 6s cool down on SYG (counting Enduring). And since both GftE and Fall Back both end when you attack, you don't get 100% IAS unless you're chaining FGJ and SYG-in which case if you're paying that much attention, why not just use AR+a quick recharge chant/shout? That way you have 100% IAS uncondtionally and all you need to do is hit that one skill every couple of sec.
Stand Your Ground is just not the greatest skill (neglecting Enduring for a sec.)-currently your build is 11 Command, and SYG only lasts 16s with a 30s recharge! In NM most mobs will be dead by then (excepting of course massive healing on the enemy side), but in HM it's a different story.
In addition your argument about Aggressive Refrain is just flawed-granted you might not like hitting a skill every few seconds-but considering AR is effectively permanent and unstrippable-it's well worth it. And the Cracked Armor-[dismiss conditions] says hi.
And even with Enduring Harmony you still have a 15s cool down with FGJ. And then you got 6s cool down on SYG (counting Enduring). And since both GftE and Fall Back both end when you attack, you don't get 100% IAS unless you're chaining FGJ and SYG-in which case if you're paying that much attention, why not just use AR+a quick recharge chant/shout? That way you have 100% IAS uncondtionally and all you need to do is hit that one skill every couple of sec.
The Meth
Hitting shouts on recharge is too hard for you? Dang, in that case you must not even be able to run ursan very well. Maybe a P/Mo with mending is all you are qualified to run.
toastgodsupreme
I can't even think of a class/build that you should play if you can't keep AR up.
I mean, paras are almost as simple as Ursan.
1. Bring up AR
2. C+Space
3. Spam SY + TNTF
4. Repeat steps 1 and 2 over and over
5. Win
Really, there's no easier way to win at pve. Basically your team can do whatever the hell they want with you spamming those two skills.
But that's too hard for you. Oh, maybe you can play the Sims. Might be more your speed. Just don't let them start a fire in the kitchen!
I mean, paras are almost as simple as Ursan.
1. Bring up AR
2. C+Space
3. Spam SY + TNTF
4. Repeat steps 1 and 2 over and over
5. Win
Really, there's no easier way to win at pve. Basically your team can do whatever the hell they want with you spamming those two skills.
But that's too hard for you. Oh, maybe you can play the Sims. Might be more your speed. Just don't let them start a fire in the kitchen!
romeus petrus
You have [Save Yourselves] and [There's Nothing To Fear] 2 of the most overpowered skills in the game. Spamming them should be enough to keep your [aggressive refrain] up. Make a build around that, oh wait here it is clicky.
Panais
u do know if u spam TNTF u can keep AR up forever right
Improvavel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz
edit: also, tanking's bad
But body blocking is good 
. But cracked doesn't matter there either and if you have an hero mm, he will be casting extinguish anyway.
. But cracked doesn't matter there either and if you have an hero mm, he will be casting extinguish anyway.
Cebe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Chanter
so i made this
[Holy Chanter's Skills;OQGjUqmLqS+iWYmYtbXF1Y5i7YA]
yeey meeee
what i do i use 8, rush with group to mobs than 3,4,5,7 and spam atack 1 and buff with 2 go for the eyes its also good in full party for energy maintain when 5 goes out i use 3,4,6,7 when all dead 8 yeeeehaaaaaaaaa :P
I would suggest a few changes. Use [["There's Nothing to Fear!"] instead of "Stand Your Ground!" for a start...it's better party support than "SYG!" and as Rhamia Darigaz says, unlike "SYG!" it does not discourage kiting.
Perhaps remove the Ebon Vanguard standard for [["Save Yourselves!" (Luxon)], and [["Fall BacK!"] for something like [[Merciless Spear]. Paragons have the ability to cause Deep Wound from range - seems silly not to take advantage of that. One final thing. Consider swapping [["Go For The Eyes!"] for something like [[Anthem of Weariness]...since you don't need to critical for Vicious Attack there's no reason why you couldn't spread weakness instead.
[[Aggressive Refrain] is amazing since itis basically a free IAS for the entire time you need it. If you don't want to keep it up then I guess that's just your play-style then there's nothing anyone else can really say here to convince you imo.
[Paragon;OQGoMBSQFYmUwJUyoJ5LOkF+Zi1udVAEK6B]
Just a few ideas really...
Just a few ideas really...
Desert Rose
If you want to use Soldier's Fury instead of AR try this build:
Spear 12 +1 +1
Leader 11 +1
Command 6 +1 (for shield)
[Save Yourselves (kurzick)] [There's Nothing to Fear] [Enduring Harmony] [For Great Justice] [Soldier's Fury]
In the worst case, you will be five out of forty-five seconds left without an IAS.
Spear 12 +1 +1
Leader 11 +1
Command 6 +1 (for shield)
[Save Yourselves (kurzick)] [There's Nothing to Fear] [Enduring Harmony] [For Great Justice] [Soldier's Fury]
In the worst case, you will be five out of forty-five seconds left without an IAS.
Racthoh
After you use Soldier's Fury 6 times you've spent more energy than Aggressive Refrain. +4 leadership helms are great for that first aggy cast also.
cellardweller
As a fellow non-imbagon user I sympathise with the OP. There are very few shouts outsided tntf to keep refrains going between fights.
[anthem of flame] This is pretty much your only option in the 4 man areas because of the lack of leadership energy. At the same time, its 1 second cast makes it totally unwieldy.
[They're on fire] This is the shout of choice when running with h/h. I've found that when runnign with 2 people+6heroes its energy cost can be a little high because of how often it only hits you and your 3 heroes while moving between battles.
My solution:
[flail] The adrenaline that this drains is counter productive in a the imbagon build, however for most adr/energy balance build dropping 1a every 5 seconds is not a big deal.
[anthem of flame] This is pretty much your only option in the 4 man areas because of the lack of leadership energy. At the same time, its 1 second cast makes it totally unwieldy.
[They're on fire] This is the shout of choice when running with h/h. I've found that when runnign with 2 people+6heroes its energy cost can be a little high because of how often it only hits you and your 3 heroes while moving between battles.
My solution:
[flail] The adrenaline that this drains is counter productive in a the imbagon build, however for most adr/energy balance build dropping 1a every 5 seconds is not a big deal.
odly
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
[flail] The adrenaline that this drains is counter productive in a the imbagon build, however for most adr/energy balance build dropping 1a every 5 seconds is not a big deal.
It'll cost you just as much adrenalin as you're gaining by attacking faster.
So it's basically a wasted skillslot.
There really is no alternative that comes even close to being as good as AR.
I love how a these flamebait threads are created by OP's who have never posted before.
Keeping the forum's alive artificially are we ?
So it's basically a wasted skillslot.
There really is no alternative that comes even close to being as good as AR.
I love how a these flamebait threads are created by OP's who have never posted before.
Keeping the forum's alive artificially are we ?
cellardweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by odly
It'll cost you just as much adrenalin as you're gaining by attacking faster.
So it's basically a wasted skillslot. Except for the whole +50% dps thing...
Lets also not forget that AR effectively costs 2 slots for a non-imbagon because you need to bring either AoF, ToF or AoW to support it.
So it's basically a wasted skillslot. Except for the whole +50% dps thing...
Lets also not forget that AR effectively costs 2 slots for a non-imbagon because you need to bring either AoF, ToF or AoW to support it.
Kale Ironfist
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
Except for the whole +50% dps thing...
Lets also not forget that AR effectively costs 2 slots for a non-imbagon because you need to bring either AoF, ToF or AoW to support it. Given the fact that both AR and SF both require a shout/chant (of ANY type), are you implying SF doesn't need a shout/chant?
More importantly, AR is more flexible, since it only needs an ending shout/chant, versus keeping one on you at all times.
The only real difference between the two is the +17% difference in attack rate and no cracked armor in exchange for being an elite skill.
Lets also not forget that AR effectively costs 2 slots for a non-imbagon because you need to bring either AoF, ToF or AoW to support it. Given the fact that both AR and SF both require a shout/chant (of ANY type), are you implying SF doesn't need a shout/chant?
More importantly, AR is more flexible, since it only needs an ending shout/chant, versus keeping one on you at all times.
The only real difference between the two is the +17% difference in attack rate and no cracked armor in exchange for being an elite skill.
cellardweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist
Given the fact that both AR and SF both require a shout/chant (of ANY type), are you implying SF doesn't need a shout/chant?
More importantly, AR is more flexible, since it only needs an ending shout/chant, versus keeping one on you at all times.
The only real difference between the two is the +17% difference in attack rate and no cracked armor in exchange for being an elite skill. No, I said flail is a better option. Using an elite skill slot for an IAS is madness.
More importantly, AR is more flexible, since it only needs an ending shout/chant, versus keeping one on you at all times.
The only real difference between the two is the +17% difference in attack rate and no cracked armor in exchange for being an elite skill. No, I said flail is a better option. Using an elite skill slot for an IAS is madness.
odly
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
Lets also not forget that AR effectively costs 2 slots for a non-imbagon because you need to bring either AoF, ToF or AoW to support it.
TNTF is the only thing you need to keep AR going. I have a hard time imagining a paragon not bringing that. (Well not really, but if they're not they should.)
Shaz
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
Except for the whole +50% dps thing...
Lets also not forget that AR effectively costs 2 slots for a non-imbagon because you need to bring either AoF, ToF or AoW to support it. Yea, but it worth it for AR and if you're a paragon, having a shout/chant or 2 is an easy condition to meet. And it's not like those chant and shout are useless anyway, well maybe ToF if you don't have an efficient way to inflict burning. And those aren't the only Chant you have to bring to upkeep AR.
AR is the best IAS for a paragon, you can use other but it won't be as efficient in term of cost/maintenance-wise, and if you can't keep AR up you're just bad /thread
Lets also not forget that AR effectively costs 2 slots for a non-imbagon because you need to bring either AoF, ToF or AoW to support it. Yea, but it worth it for AR and if you're a paragon, having a shout/chant or 2 is an easy condition to meet. And it's not like those chant and shout are useless anyway, well maybe ToF if you don't have an efficient way to inflict burning. And those aren't the only Chant you have to bring to upkeep AR.
AR is the best IAS for a paragon, you can use other but it won't be as efficient in term of cost/maintenance-wise, and if you can't keep AR up you're just bad /thread
cellardweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by odly
Quote:
Yea, but it worth it for AR and if you're a paragon, having a shout/chant or 2 is an easy condition to meet. And it's not like those chant and shout are useless anyway, well maybe ToF if you don't have an efficient way to inflict burning. And those aren't the only Chant you have to bring to upkeep AR.
AR is the best IAS for a paragon, you can use other but it won't be as efficient in term of cost/maintenance-wise, and if you can't keep AR up you're just bad /thread Take a pretty typical Spearagon build as an example
You'd want 3 spear attacks: [spear of lightning][chest thumper][wild throw]
An energy source: [go for the eyes]
Some sort of party support: [Defensive Anthem][signet of return]
Which leaves 2 slots for your IAS. Now, IF your party has a good source of burning like a SF ele you'd have no argument from me, the optimal choice is clearly [They're on fire][aggressive refrain]
If thats not the case, then you're chosing between
([anthem of flame] or [anthem of weariness])[aggressive refrain] ( because of [enfeebling blood], [anthem of weariness] is pointless so lets stick with [anthem of flame]) and [blank][flail] (lets throw somthing like [anthem of envy] in there).
[Anthem of Flame][Aggressive Refrain]
Advantages:
No warm up time when adrenaline voids
[Anthem of Envy][flail]
Advantages:
AoE has higher dps than AoF
Faster attack speed
Able to walk between fights without having to continually stop to chant
I think lining those two choices up, flail is the pretty clear winner (the 3rd advantage alone would be enough to make me choose it). I'm not saying that [aggressive refrain] isn't an awesome skill - its clearly tier 1, but trying to assert that its always the best ias for a paragon is a falsehood.
AR is the best IAS for a paragon, you can use other but it won't be as efficient in term of cost/maintenance-wise, and if you can't keep AR up you're just bad /thread Take a pretty typical Spearagon build as an example
You'd want 3 spear attacks: [spear of lightning][chest thumper][wild throw]
An energy source: [go for the eyes]
Some sort of party support: [Defensive Anthem][signet of return]
Which leaves 2 slots for your IAS. Now, IF your party has a good source of burning like a SF ele you'd have no argument from me, the optimal choice is clearly [They're on fire][aggressive refrain]
If thats not the case, then you're chosing between
([anthem of flame] or [anthem of weariness])[aggressive refrain] ( because of [enfeebling blood], [anthem of weariness] is pointless so lets stick with [anthem of flame]) and [blank][flail] (lets throw somthing like [anthem of envy] in there).
[Anthem of Flame][Aggressive Refrain]
Advantages:
No warm up time when adrenaline voids
[Anthem of Envy][flail]
Advantages:
AoE has higher dps than AoF
Faster attack speed
Able to walk between fights without having to continually stop to chant
I think lining those two choices up, flail is the pretty clear winner (the 3rd advantage alone would be enough to make me choose it). I'm not saying that [aggressive refrain] isn't an awesome skill - its clearly tier 1, but trying to assert that its always the best ias for a paragon is a falsehood.
Shaz
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
[spear of lightning][chest thumper][wild throw]["go for the eye!"][Defensive Anthem][signet of return][Anthem of Flame][Aggressive Refrain]
[spear of lightning][chest thumper][wild throw]["go for the eye!"][Defensive Anthem][signet of return][Anthem of Envy][flail]
Of those two I would definitely use the first one. Flail will compete with 3 other adrenaline skills, one of which you pretty much almost use on recharge (GFTE). With Flail lasting only 5 sec, you will have to almost spam it on recharge also since you don't have any skill to gain addtional adrenaline. Look like more work to upkeep it then AR while in a fight.
And outside of battle...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cellardweller
Able to walk between fights without having to continually stop to chant
I never have a problem keeping up with my party while upkeeping AR. It's not like PvE Mobs are few and far inbetween anyway.
cellardweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaz
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Quote: Originally Posted by Shaz Are you saying that you won't use anything that is broken? For example, you would never use a Necro for SR either? I wouldn't describe the current SR as broken (the old unbounded one yes), it provides an extra 5-6 pips of energy and necro skills are costed accordingly. The perception of its power largely comes from the fact that heroes are incapable of successfully managing their own energy or using energy management skills so they benefit much more from the passive nature of SR in comparison.
Quote: Originally Posted by Shaz A challenging game is good, but making the game challenging by using subpar skill is not smart. That's why I don't have a problem with people using SY, Ursan, cons, etc. because I sometime use it myself. I want skills balances, but until it happen, I'm not about to gimp my build with lesser skills. Do you use cheat codes in games too? If a pve skills/cons make it impossible for your party to be killed, whats the difference?
Quote:
The current version of SR is still as powerful as ever. You either don't kill that fast then the timer is a non issue, or if you kill fast then you wouldn't need the extra energy anyway since most should already be dead. Maybe it's just me, but the change to SR didn't feel much different than before to me.|
Originally Posted by Shaz
[spear of lightning][chest thumper][wild throw]["go for the eye!"][Defensive Anthem][signet of return][Anthem of Flame][Aggressive Refrain]
I wouldn't describe the current SR as broken (the old unbounded one yes), it provides an extra 5-6 pips of energy and necro skills are costed accordingly. The perception of its power largely comes from the fact that heroes are incapable of successfully managing their own energy or using energy management skills so they benefit much more from the passive nature of SR in comparison.
[spear of lightning][chest thumper][wild throw]["go for the eye!"][Defensive Anthem][signet of return][Anthem of Envy][flail] Of those two I would definitely use the first one. Flail will compete with 3 other adrenaline skills, one of which you pretty much almost use on recharge (GFTE). With Flail lasting only 5 sec, you will have to almost spam it on recharge also since you don't have any skill to gain addtional adrenaline. Look like more work to upkeep it then AR while in a fight. The cost of using flail on GftE is non-existent because the flail cost comes during the GftE recharge so the only effect that the flail cost has is on the wild strike charge time. Under AR you're gaining .89a/sec whereas under flail you're gaining 1a/s but spending .2a. This means that AR gets wild strike charged 11.25% faster at the cost of having 11% less DPS. Flail itself doesn't take any work to keep up, its a stance and can be used during attacks/skills. Quote:
PvE skills just add to their imbalanced, they are not balanced even without PvE skill. Fast attack rate (only slightly slower than axe, sword, and dagger, but then they are in IAS 24/7) with ranged, high armor as you mentioned, unlimited energy, and unremovable buffs.
Quote: |
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
The cost of using flail on GftE is non-existent because the flail cost comes during the GftE recharge so the only effect that the flail cost has is on the wild strike charge time. Under AR you're gaining .89a/sec whereas under flail you're gaining 1a/s but spending .2a. This means that AR gets wild strike charged 11.25% faster at the cost of having 11% less DPS.
Ok, it's too late for me to do math atm, so I'll take your word for it for now. All I know is 25% IAS = 1.13s per attack for spear and 33% IAS = 1s.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cellardweller
Flail itself doesn't take any work to keep up, its a stance and can be used during attacks/skills.
I know, I meant you have to smash it more  Quote:
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