Since we know Anet tried to fix Shadow Form again and mostly failed (it has had almost an opposite effect), I am creating this thread to get some suggestions for REALISTIC ways to alter Shadow Form to a less powerful, but still usable skill.
1. Remove -50% damage dealt, change functionality from "attacks miss" to "melee attacks do zero damage".
2. Change Shadow Form to a Stance. Increase Energy cost to 15, Decrease duration to 5-20 and recharge to 40 seconds. Change functionality to "attacks are blocked".
3. Two part:
Deadly Paradox: Your Assassin skills activate and recharge 33% faster. Disables non-assassin skills (20 seconds).
Shadow Form: Recharge changed to 45 sec. Remove -50% penalty
Im not asking for a /sign, just to get ideas out that the devs maybe didnt think of.
Other solutions for Shadow Form
AOD_EaSyKiLL
Panais
this is just retarded.
u cant change other skills, so people wont farm UW with SF
personally i never used SF UW farming, other than just once to try it out
u cant change other skills, so people wont farm UW with SF
personally i never used SF UW farming, other than just once to try it out
Miska Bow
The recent nerf was not ment to kill the SF farming build, but more like tone it down to a reasonnable lvl of power.
Konig Des Todes
1. No melee damage? That is worse then -50% damage dealt. Assassins in PvE are meant to be melee damage dealers mainly, I'd rather see "no damage from non-assassin skills" then "no melee damage," that is more appropriate for the farming builds as most didn't even use melee damage. However, both are rather bad, the -50% is good enough of a nerf there.
2. I don't see how Shadow Form could be a stance, instead it should be made into an Elite Form, however, that would ruin the concept of [[Signet of Disenchantment] being added. In other words, no to this as well.
3a. The Deadly Paradox is a buff and a nerf, would harm Perma SF farmers a lot more then the -50% damage. This is the only good idea here. However, the 20 second recharge is a bit long, make it 10 seconds.
3b. I think Arcane Echo would be the get-around to this. Might be wrong though, as Arcane Echo makes it 20+35ish, so 55 seconds till having to reuse, if I'm correct that is. making the recharge 60 seconds would be the solution to that.
However, Perma SF should just get a nerf in terms of Farming, as it helps with Running, no need to kill the runners (even though I dislike them) when they are not the problem.
The only worthwhile idea you suggest is 3a. but that still needs revising as well.
2. I don't see how Shadow Form could be a stance, instead it should be made into an Elite Form, however, that would ruin the concept of [[Signet of Disenchantment] being added. In other words, no to this as well.
3a. The Deadly Paradox is a buff and a nerf, would harm Perma SF farmers a lot more then the -50% damage. This is the only good idea here. However, the 20 second recharge is a bit long, make it 10 seconds.
3b. I think Arcane Echo would be the get-around to this. Might be wrong though, as Arcane Echo makes it 20+35ish, so 55 seconds till having to reuse, if I'm correct that is. making the recharge 60 seconds would be the solution to that.
However, Perma SF should just get a nerf in terms of Farming, as it helps with Running, no need to kill the runners (even though I dislike them) when they are not the problem.
The only worthwhile idea you suggest is 3a. but that still needs revising as well.
anonymous
The 2 goals of your post are mutually exclusive. If you make it less powerful to the point where you can't farm with it, you have made it a useless skill. If you can still farm with it, then it isn't less powerful.
Axel Zinfandel
What build other then this,
[SF farm;AnRhXU6nXIJ9xjoz0OhMgLczMMA]
Still works that dealing -melee- damage is a problem? Those changes don't nerf the skill at all. I just promotes grind for Dwarven Stability.
The blocking attacks part nerfs it to non use. You mine as well use Mist Form.
/fail
[SF farm;AnRhXU6nXIJ9xjoz0OhMgLczMMA]
Still works that dealing -melee- damage is a problem? Those changes don't nerf the skill at all. I just promotes grind for Dwarven Stability.
The blocking attacks part nerfs it to non use. You mine as well use Mist Form.
/fail
Mr.Bimble
Return SF to its original and then sack the muppets that keep "improving skills"
AOD_EaSyKiLL
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Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin
1. No melee damage? That is worse then -50% damage dealt. Assassins in PvE are meant to be melee damage dealers mainly, I'd rather see "no damage from non-assassin skills" then "no melee damage," that is more appropriate for the farming builds as most didn't even use melee damage. However, both are rather bad, the -50% is good enough of a nerf there.
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A stance would make wild blow and a few other skills as counters and would make other stances unusable, basically a major rework in a sense
.
AOD_EaSyKiLL
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Originally Posted by anonymous
The 2 goals of your post are mutually exclusive. If you make it less powerful to the point where you can't farm with it, you have made it a useless skill. If you can still farm with it, then it isn't less powerful.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
Still works that dealing -melee- damage is a problem? Those changes don't nerf the skill at all. I just promotes grind for Dwarven Stability. The blocking attacks part nerfs it to non use. You mine as well use Mist Form. /fail |
Axel Zinfandel
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Originally Posted by AOD_EaSyKiLL
I didnt word it right I guess, what I mean is change the "attacks miss" to "attacks do no damage" which would mean SF and skills used during could be interuptable by melee and conditions could be aquired.
A stance would make wild blow and a few other skills as counters and would make other stances unusable, basically a major rework in a sense . |
AOD_EaSyKiLL
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Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
way too much change for it's own good.
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I would like it to become:
"101 ways to fix Shadow Form, that Anet hasn't tried already"
Maybe a mod could change the title to that. lol
Icy The Mage
How about you just revert it to 21 seconds at 16 Shadow Arts? :P
Perma = A/Me
The "buffs" to SF destroyed pretty much everything that only maintains shadow form for a limited amount of time, eg. Solo Green Farmer, Shadow Raptor Farmer, etc... whilst leaving perma intact and powerful as ever >_>
Perma = A/Me
The "buffs" to SF destroyed pretty much everything that only maintains shadow form for a limited amount of time, eg. Solo Green Farmer, Shadow Raptor Farmer, etc... whilst leaving perma intact and powerful as ever >_>
Cyb3r
this nerf fixed zero, and you're suggestion doesn't fix anything either the only thing it did was cutting down every other possible farm area for both A/E,A/Me, Me/A and E/A and turn more people to farming the ecto plains oh and the fix to the chaosplainz affected valid teams too that go in there and didn't tone down A/E in any way (ok less to kill but it didn't fix it)
Ecto was up to 5.5k after the nerf for less than a hour i think, why?
cause there is way more ecto than there is demand for it right now and people killing of they're stacks
Ecto was up to 5.5k after the nerf for less than a hour i think, why?
cause there is way more ecto than there is demand for it right now and people killing of they're stacks
Eradicus
They should just let SF how it was and make it with the -50% dmg in the UW and fow....i was used to farm greens with my A with SF...now...just try to kick a monk boss *** with it :P i can't farm boss at all or..it take 20 min.
make it like PvP instanced....but with the -50% in UW and FOW..
I don't see the difference it would make with yesterday update...pls kill Ecto farm or slow it down but just don't kill boss farm...or making money become a useless waste of time.
Thanks.
make it like PvP instanced....but with the -50% in UW and FOW..
I don't see the difference it would make with yesterday update...pls kill Ecto farm or slow it down but just don't kill boss farm...or making money become a useless waste of time.
Thanks.
toastgodsupreme
You know, from your other posts on the board, I know you're not retarded. But this thread is fscking stupid.
All your suggestions have turned Shadowform into a non-ELITE skill.
Why is it the community is SOOOOOOO adamant on keeping monks as the only real farmers in the game? Nerf shadowform? Fine, nerf ALL farming by ALL classes. Put [signet of disenchantment] on any mob that's popular to be farmed by monks and dervishes. Put touch skills on any mobs that are farmed by VwK wars.
I just don't see why everyone, even seemingly intelligent people on this board, are out to nerf a skill into uselessness. What, are sins who run people through places bothering you now? Were those pesky shadow sliver ele's becomming a nuisance in Rata Sum?
And I STILL haven't farmed with my sin. Only R2 on survivor and not about to mess that up. So it's not like I'm benefitting from it.
Or is it that some of you have nothing better to do than cry about shit, regardless of whether or not it affects you?
"Shit, someone else is having fun in Guild Wars! OH HELL NO! I'M THE ONLY ONE ALLOWED TO HAVE FUN IN THIS GAME! That's getting nerfed! *posts on forums*"
All your suggestions have turned Shadowform into a non-ELITE skill.
Why is it the community is SOOOOOOO adamant on keeping monks as the only real farmers in the game? Nerf shadowform? Fine, nerf ALL farming by ALL classes. Put [signet of disenchantment] on any mob that's popular to be farmed by monks and dervishes. Put touch skills on any mobs that are farmed by VwK wars.
I just don't see why everyone, even seemingly intelligent people on this board, are out to nerf a skill into uselessness. What, are sins who run people through places bothering you now? Were those pesky shadow sliver ele's becomming a nuisance in Rata Sum?
And I STILL haven't farmed with my sin. Only R2 on survivor and not about to mess that up. So it's not like I'm benefitting from it.
Or is it that some of you have nothing better to do than cry about shit, regardless of whether or not it affects you?
"Shit, someone else is having fun in Guild Wars! OH HELL NO! I'M THE ONLY ONE ALLOWED TO HAVE FUN IN THIS GAME! That's getting nerfed! *posts on forums*"
Icy The Mage
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Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme
You know, from your other posts on the board, I know you're not retarded. But this thread is fscking stupid.
All your suggestions have turned Shadowform into a non-ELITE skill. Why is it the community is SOOOOOOO adamant on keeping monks as the only real farmers in the game? Nerf shadowform? Fine, nerf ALL farming by ALL classes. Put [signet of disenchantment] on any mob that's popular to be farmed by monks and dervishes. Put touch skills on any mobs that are farmed by VwK wars. I just don't see why everyone, even seemingly intelligent people on this board, are out to nerf a skill into uselessness. What, are sins who run people through places bothering you now? Were those pesky shadow sliver ele's becomming a nuisance in Rata Sum? And I STILL haven't farmed with my sin. Only R2 on survivor and not about to mess that up. So it's not like I'm benefitting from it. Or is it that some of you have nothing better to do than cry about shit, regardless of whether or not it affects you? "Shit, someone else is having fun in Guild Wars! OH HELL NO! I'M THE ONLY ONE ALLOWED TO HAVE FUN IN THIS GAME! That's getting nerfed! *posts on forums*" |
Axel Zinfandel
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Originally Posted by AOD_EaSyKiLL
Add how you would like to see SF then, is basically what I am trying to get into this thread.
I would like it to become: "101 ways to fix Shadow Form, that Anet hasn't tried already" Maybe a mod could change the title to that. lol |
The only thing they can do without completely ruining it's maintainability is to add skill counters to UW, which they already have. Only thing I think they should do is to also add [Signet of Disenchantment] to Cursed Dream Riders themselves. The 50% less damage is not a nerf, but an annoyance.
Eradicus
i still say they should instance SF at least.Don't kill the ones farmer that farm in some zones...bosses and such...
ok Slow ectos farm but c'mon,i can't even kill a boss now...surely not the monk one i was farming for tomes.
Ty Anet....
EDIT: It feels like theres only Ectos in this game...Ecto ECTO ECTOOO.... thought GW was more than that....
ok Slow ectos farm but c'mon,i can't even kill a boss now...surely not the monk one i was farming for tomes.
Ty Anet....
EDIT: It feels like theres only Ectos in this game...Ecto ECTO ECTOOO.... thought GW was more than that....
Luca Firestorm
How about this: Take out -50% damage. Spells cast in Shadow Form take an extra 10 energy? Still leaves all the melee sin builds but slows down the sliver build in uw?
Or even -50% damage on spells...
I just really enjoyed doing UW speed runs, trying to break the record...now no1 is gonna even come close to that 15 min one...
Or even -50% damage on spells...
I just really enjoyed doing UW speed runs, trying to break the record...now no1 is gonna even come close to that 15 min one...
Angelina Collins
My suggestion is to return shadow form to it's original fuction. There was no need to nerf a skill based solely on farming builds, even if in a high profile area.
Next they need to reduce the ecto drop rate in the underworld, or reduce the number of creatures that drop ecto's in the chaos plains, maybe a combination of both.
The problem with this skill change is that it effects the use of the skill altogether, making it usless for anything else other then farming.
This behavior Anet is taking only shows how they tend to cater to one side of GW players, namely the ones who exploit the game in the first place. If this is Anets approach to solve problems, I have a good feeling that GW2 will = fail when realesed. Who wants to invest in a companies products when they delibertly downgrade then to satify the needs of the minorty.
I would rather spend my money on other games the offer the same and upgrade there games to make them more playable and fun. Anet's approach tends only to allinate players in the long run, resulting in disinterest in the game and future products.
Anet, do yourself a favor, come up with more abjective ways of improving your game with out downgrading skills, spells, or abilities, that lead to disatifaction of your product. I would be willing to except a price freeze on ectos at 5K if it would mean bring back showdow form to it's original funtion.
Next they need to reduce the ecto drop rate in the underworld, or reduce the number of creatures that drop ecto's in the chaos plains, maybe a combination of both.
The problem with this skill change is that it effects the use of the skill altogether, making it usless for anything else other then farming.
This behavior Anet is taking only shows how they tend to cater to one side of GW players, namely the ones who exploit the game in the first place. If this is Anets approach to solve problems, I have a good feeling that GW2 will = fail when realesed. Who wants to invest in a companies products when they delibertly downgrade then to satify the needs of the minorty.
I would rather spend my money on other games the offer the same and upgrade there games to make them more playable and fun. Anet's approach tends only to allinate players in the long run, resulting in disinterest in the game and future products.
Anet, do yourself a favor, come up with more abjective ways of improving your game with out downgrading skills, spells, or abilities, that lead to disatifaction of your product. I would be willing to except a price freeze on ectos at 5K if it would mean bring back showdow form to it's original funtion.
pumpkin pie
lol remove the skill :P~ enough with the suggestion regarding shadow form, leave it be!
and for arena net, do not repeat this mistake of making a skill that people will have something to say either way, ie, don't put yourself in a damn if you do damn if you dont situation
and for arena net, do not repeat this mistake of making a skill that people will have something to say either way, ie, don't put yourself in a damn if you do damn if you dont situation
Bobulation
Here are my three suggestions for a way to make Shadow Form less powerful...
Option 1: Make all skills cost 200% more while enchanted by it. This would slow down any run tremendously.
Option 2: Make it so that while enchanted by Shadow Form, You have 2 less energy regeneration. This would also slow down runs a lot.
Option 3: If I'm not mistaken, Elite Forms are not spells, and therefore are not affected by Arcane Echo, which ends when a skill is used, and Glyph of Swiftness. Therefore, making Shadow Form an Elite Form would end all Permanent Shadow Form builds. This option would also make the most sense, as I am pretty sure that the skills is called Shadow FORM. This makes the most sense to me.
Option 1: Make all skills cost 200% more while enchanted by it. This would slow down any run tremendously.
Option 2: Make it so that while enchanted by Shadow Form, You have 2 less energy regeneration. This would also slow down runs a lot.
Option 3: If I'm not mistaken, Elite Forms are not spells, and therefore are not affected by Arcane Echo, which ends when a skill is used, and Glyph of Swiftness. Therefore, making Shadow Form an Elite Form would end all Permanent Shadow Form builds. This option would also make the most sense, as I am pretty sure that the skills is called Shadow FORM. This makes the most sense to me.
squiros
many of us needed shadow form for other reasons. even in the days of needing arcane echo, it was still better than the 50% damage it is today.
if it was an ecto/farming issue, simply give sod to the appropriate enemies.
i would accept that 'most farmers are shadow form users'. but it's non sequitur to claim 'most shadow form users are farmers'. those of us that are not farmers are being punished, which seems unfair. even if it were true, there are ways of addressing the issue without punishing the innocent.
if it was an ecto/farming issue, simply give sod to the appropriate enemies.
i would accept that 'most farmers are shadow form users'. but it's non sequitur to claim 'most shadow form users are farmers'. those of us that are not farmers are being punished, which seems unfair. even if it were true, there are ways of addressing the issue without punishing the innocent.
N1ghtstalker
no it's retarded
making it in a stance wtf?
this totally kills the Mindflay Spectres too
then it'll be even more crying blablabla
/notsigned imo
it's balanced now
making it in a stance wtf?
this totally kills the Mindflay Spectres too
then it'll be even more crying blablabla
/notsigned imo
it's balanced now
BlackSephir
I don't care anymore, make it unusable in that goddamn UW and instead make it viable for farming greens and raptors. I couldn't care less about ugly-ass fow armor.
Abedeus
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no it's retarded making it in a stance wtf? this totally kills the Mindflay Spectres too then it'll be even more crying blablabla /notsigned imo it's balanced now |
But I was kinda suspicious after 2nd one. If it's a stance, it won't be recharged by Deadly Paradox or glyph of swiftness. Or Arcane Echo.
REVERT IT TO WHAT IT WAS BEFORE BUFFS.
Thizzle
What Arena Net did to Shadowform was exactly perfect. It eliminated the farming with it, but did not kill it's functionality what so ever. It can still be very useful for missions using a perma sf + melee combo. It's amazing for mapping as well. The only thing we'll hear now is how people will complain they can't farm with it. There's no reason to modify that skill anymore.
Tyla
Either you kill it or you keep it.
The name suggests invunerability to most sources, and selfish defense in an elite makes it kind of weak outside of farming and taking the mickey.
The name suggests invunerability to most sources, and selfish defense in an elite makes it kind of weak outside of farming and taking the mickey.
Dronte
Dont be stupid.. Simply make SF a form and bb perma SF.. You dont have to change the whole game. Its broken anyways, shouldnt have been an enchantment ever.
Abedeus
Kinda agree. Make it a form with a recharge, but make the duration a bit longer. Maybe like Avatar of Melandru, energy cost 25, cast 2 seconds, lasts 10...58...70 at 0-12-15, recharges 120? Bye bye perma, more than fair for people that want to use it from time to time.
Hailey Anne
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Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker
it's balanced now
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Not everyone uses SF to farm UW people use for other things as well.
It would be alot better to just make it to where you cant maintain perma anymmore but take the -50%dmg away. Thats overkill.
munky
1. return [Shadow Form] to what it was before buff/nerf either one.
2. make [VwK] an enchantment, but somehow protect it from most enchant removers so it keeps its effectiveness outside of uw.
3. add something with [Signet of Disenchantment] to the first room in the uw.
that stops all current solo farming builds that are not already very slow.
in the dev report they state that they don't think that effective solo farming of
elite areas is good for the game overall, so why try to nerf only one build doing it?
ya I know I might piss some people off by suggest the almost total removing of solo and duel farming from uw, but come on how can they say they care about elite areas being farmed, then only try to nerf one build doing it.
2. make [VwK] an enchantment, but somehow protect it from most enchant removers so it keeps its effectiveness outside of uw.
3. add something with [Signet of Disenchantment] to the first room in the uw.
that stops all current solo farming builds that are not already very slow.
in the dev report they state that they don't think that effective solo farming of
elite areas is good for the game overall, so why try to nerf only one build doing it?
ya I know I might piss some people off by suggest the almost total removing of solo and duel farming from uw, but come on how can they say they care about elite areas being farmed, then only try to nerf one build doing it.
Sniper22
Functionally Change to....
Energy Cost: 10/Activation Time: 1 Sec/Recharge Time: 20 Sec
Elite Form: For 2...6 seconds, all enemy attacks and spells fail. When this form ends, all your skills are disabled for 5 seconds and you lose all but 40...100 health.
That way, it would be good enough to go in, kill with a spike, get out and heal up. Making this an elite form would prevent glyph of swiftness and arcane echo from working on this (only cons would work though). Any 20% enchant mods wouldn't boost the time either.
Energy Cost: 10/Activation Time: 1 Sec/Recharge Time: 20 Sec
Elite Form: For 2...6 seconds, all enemy attacks and spells fail. When this form ends, all your skills are disabled for 5 seconds and you lose all but 40...100 health.
That way, it would be good enough to go in, kill with a spike, get out and heal up. Making this an elite form would prevent glyph of swiftness and arcane echo from working on this (only cons would work though). Any 20% enchant mods wouldn't boost the time either.
Marverick
Just... how can you kill anything in 6 seconds? And that's with, what, 14 points in Shadow Arts?
Meh - remove the stupid -50% damage thing on Shadow Form.
Get rid of the Cursed Dream Riders & Mindflay Specters.
Put [Signet of Disenchantment] on all Banished Dream Riders.
That will force people to take one Dream Rider at a time and slow down the run to match other farms, but not make Shadow Form useless outside of UW (which is what it is right now).
Meh - remove the stupid -50% damage thing on Shadow Form.
Get rid of the Cursed Dream Riders & Mindflay Specters.
Put [Signet of Disenchantment] on all Banished Dream Riders.
That will force people to take one Dream Rider at a time and slow down the run to match other farms, but not make Shadow Form useless outside of UW (which is what it is right now).
hurdlebeast
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Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
lol remove the skill :P~ enough with the suggestion regarding shadow form, leave it be!
and for arena net, do not repeat this mistake of making a skill that people will have something to say either way, ie, don't put yourself in a damn if you do damn if you dont situation |
Props to you, Anet, for addressing this problem. I mean that in all sincerity.
Bowstring Badass
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Originally Posted by hurdlebeast
Props to you, Anet, for addressing this problem. I mean that in all sincerity. |
They could have just fixed it by giving the mindblades [leech signet] to begin with.
And props? For what they took what 2 months+ to fix it.. But they fixed the perfect salvage kit glitch in less than 2 hours.
hurdlebeast
yeah, but they just as easily could have done nothing. I agree it took far too long, don't get me wrong. But, in the end, they did fix it.
Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin
1. No melee damage? That is worse then -50% damage dealt. Assassins in PvE are meant to be melee damage dealers mainly, I'd rather see "no damage from non-assassin skills" then "no melee damage," that is more appropriate for the farming builds as most didn't even use melee damage.
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Just put the duration to what it originally was before the PvE buff, and get rid of the 50% damage. Problem solved.
N1ghtstalker... Was that a joke or were you dropped on your head as a child?