Am I Mentally Retarded? (Can't beat HM Darkrime Delves)

Malician

Oak Ridge Boys Fan

Join Date: Jun 2007

E/P

.. right. I'm using an air ele with Sabway and Herta, Mhenlo/Lina and.. tried several henches for the 8th spot. They're perfect outfitted (inc. sup vigor) with all the right runes and insignias.

I've seen it said very often that PVE is incredibly easy, there's nothing hard in PVE. I see people with healing breeze builds somehow survive. That begs the question: why am I dying?

It's all fairly easy until I run into a group of about.. 6-8 Jotun. You attack one, the rest all come; there's no way to pull just one. Pretty soon, someone just DIES INSTANTLY. Nothing seems to help. Later on, there's a gigantic gang of innumerable Vaettirs. Same thing - can't pull anything, instant death to a party member and it just gets worse from there. I've tried spreading blind and weakness on different enemies, I've tried doing nothing but spiking one - nothing really seems to matter. Tips? Is there something really, really obvious I'm missing from my play?

Akkarin Kentra

Akkarin Kentra

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2006

WOLF

Mo/E

Yep. Prot Spirit.

Seriously.. flag your formation at some distance. Venture a single hero forward and keep PS on him.. let him lure the jotuns and tank them.. let the others join the fight soon after.. should buy you a little time. Also, bringing a rit hero with wanderlust and shadowsong is very nice.

Konig Des Todes

Konig Des Todes

Ooo, pretty flower

Join Date: Jan 2008

Citadel of the Decayed

The Archivists' Sanctum [Lore]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malician
I've seen it said very often that PVE is incredibly easy, there's nothing hard in PVE. I see people with healing breeze builds somehow survive. That begs the question: why am I dying? This right here is ignorance. It is mostly PvPers saying that PvE is easy and nothing is hard in PvE. I'll correct them for you, most things in PvE are easy (Hard Mode is meant to be hard, but not all is) and with an Ursan team everything is easy.

Eye of the North in Hard Mode is as hard as it really gets in PvE, so I'm not surprised your have problems (I have problems myself in some areas). What it seems like you need is a better Protection monk. Those warriors, if I remember correctly, deal 300-400 damage per attack, at least to my sin (70 armor + 25 from Critical Agility), so probably 350-450 on casters without any armor buffs.

For Hard Mode, make sure you have 3 supporters (since your running sabway, bring both henchmen monks). As I said, those warriors deal high damage so you got to pull carefully and have good armor/protection up. For Darkrime Delves, bring a good amount of anti-melee (spamming blind is grand since you said your an air ele). Henchmen I usually bring in Eye of the North: Talon, Mhenlo, Aiden, Cynn, but you should probably switch Aiden or Cynn for Lina since it's hard mode.

Skye Marin

Skye Marin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

E/A

Put Protective Spirit on one of your Necros, probably your MM. Bring a set or two of consumables if you can afford it. You could also try to get another human player so you have 6 heroes to tighten up any inefficiencies.

Malician

Oak Ridge Boys Fan

Join Date: Jun 2007

E/P

Awesome sounding & thanks for the ideas. I thought of the prot spirit thing before, but I'm guessing I wouldn't want to send a sabway nec out as bait, and I'm not sure which to replace. I had already tried mucking around with pulling and points to get a protted warrior hench out first, but the monsters wouldn't stay focused on him long enough to matter (it seems harder and harder to get a fast jotun kill the larger the groups are.) What's REALLY fun is watching an almost-dead Jotun run away through the entire mob..

I've just finished doing all the dungeons in NM (except Slaver's.), and bloodstone's in HM (which was really easy.)

Autonom

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2007

Clades Gravior Omnibus [Nos]

N/Me

I would take a warder instead of the SS, give him ward against melee, ward of stability, ward of weakness and ward against elements. The rest of the skills is up to you but i varie them depending of the area.

Here is my current template for Zhed ze Warder:
OgBDk7qsOpOYxr4aE9RG0iUB

For the jotuns i would change sliver armor or maelstrom for ward of stability.

Ps. Dont forget to bring PI(it can also be effective to echo it on jotun groups).

Horus

Horus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

www.godtguild.com

Blades Of Burning Shadows [GoDT]-leader

Mo/

what i often used in my sabway necros: SS had added 2 wards(depending on what i was doing, so you could use the one to have 50% to evade and one for anti KD). Next my MM also used PS andusually some party wide prot spell(aegis/anti burn). Maybe adding these could help you at least a bit.

zelgadissan

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

Here's my HM specialty skill:

[Churning Earth]

Notice that last part: Any foe moving faster than normal when struck by Churning Earth is knocked down. All enemies move faster than normal in HM. Auto-knockdowns if they move. Make sure it's cast on a group as you aggro (I think I threw it on the curses necro before I dumped Sabway) and it gives you a big head start to get something like an Earth Shaker warrior right on them (I'd dump the N/Rt healer for it).

Oh, and like was said, EotN HM is actually pretty hard at times. So don't worry if you're having problems.

|pyro|

|pyro|

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Me/

Bring someone with this kill bar, I used it there.
[build box name="Little Hex's anti-melee build" prof=Me/Mo fast=9+1 ill=12+1+2 inspiration=10+1][Power Drain][Ineptitude][Phantom Pain][Drain Delusions][Epidemic][Wandering eye][Clumsiness][Rebirth][/build]

If you want I can try and help you when I have time.
IGN: Little Hex

Nightow

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by zelgadissan
Here's my HM specialty skill:

[Churning Earth]

Notice that last part: Any foe moving faster than normal when struck by Churning Earth is knocked down. All enemies move faster than normal in HM. Auto-knockdowns if they move. Make sure it's cast on a group as you aggro (I think I threw it on the curses necro before I dumped Sabway) and it gives you a big head start to get something like an Earth Shaker warrior right on them (I'd dump the N/Rt healer for it).

Oh, and like was said, EotN HM is actually pretty hard at times. So don't worry if you're having problems.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jotun

Quote:
Being giants, Jotun possess great strengths:

* They cannot be knocked down.

Free Runner

Free Runner

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

GW2G

Knights Of The Sacred Light [KSL]

Something that works really well on Jotun is the PvE skill Pain Inverter. If you place it on them before they use Giants Stomp they gain all the damage your party would of recieved. Also keep a MM handy (i tend to use the Sabway version).

And you have to really watch out for Shadow and Vaettir spawns. If your MM can gather a good number of Minions you should be able to roll them, however if not then flag your heroes back and cause them to pop up.

Widowmaker

Widowmaker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin
This right here is ignorance. It is mostly PvPers saying that PvE is easy and nothing is hard in PvE. I'll correct them for you, most things in PvE are easy (Hard Mode is meant to be hard, but not all is) and with an Ursan team everything is easy. Hard mode mobs can "suffer" from random selection meaning that sometimes you will happen across a group that is almost unbeatable in HM due to their total domination in a certain area. Depending on your build.

For instance today in Shards on my way to Gadd's I encountered a group of 6 Skeleton Wizards, 3 priests and 2 chained Clerics. That much blind and healing meant most of the physicals in the team were useless as my monks couldn't keep up with condition removal.

If I had been playing a less balanced team, and gone all magic, we would have nuked them in short order.

HM Guild Wars is more akin to a game of Paper/Scissors/Stone than anything else.

Nightow

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Widowmaker
Hard mode mobs can "suffer" from random selection meaning that sometimes you will happen across a group that is almost unbeatable in HM due to their total domination in a certain area. Depending on your build.

For instance today in Shards on my way to Gadd's I encountered a group of 6 Skeleton Wizards, 3 priests and 2 chained Clerics. That much blind and healing meant most of the physicals in the team were useless as my monks couldn't keep up with condition removal.

If I had been playing a less balanced team, and gone all magic, we would have nuked them in short order.

HM Guild Wars is more akin to a game of Paper/Scissors/Stone than anything else. Right, it gets really silly though when your 'rock' of a two man team can run dungeons like CoF/SoO/etc. and beat the dungeon's now paper thin mobs. (pun intended)

BTW, just want to reinforce the idea of bringing a blindbot (air ele) and good prot (Don't rely on heroes for these two roles unless you're some sort of RTS freak with multitasking skills of a god. ) since both can make this dungeon A LOT easier.

zelgadissan

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightow
Being giants, Jotun possess great strengths:

* They cannot be knocked down. LOL I got owned. My bad - saw HM and just immediately thought to mention that skill.

Anyway - other things that make Jotun easier - blind, [Enfeebling Blood], [Protective Spirit], [Pain Inverter]. Also, since I'm a mesmer I have to plug Clumsiness here - they'll start their Stomp and then it'll be canceled and take damage. IMO there's nothing more satisfying in GW than interrupts. Pyro's mesmer bar looks great for a hero there.

Widowmaker

Widowmaker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

N/

A [ebon dust aura] + [volley] ranger makes HM physical damage dealers a lot easier to cope with.

Konig Des Todes

Konig Des Todes

Ooo, pretty flower

Join Date: Jan 2008

Citadel of the Decayed

The Archivists' Sanctum [Lore]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Widowmaker
Hard mode mobs can "suffer" from random selection meaning that sometimes you will happen across a group that is almost unbeatable in HM due to their total domination in a certain area. Depending on your build.

For instance today in Shards on my way to Gadd's I encountered a group of 6 Skeleton Wizards, 3 priests and 2 chained Clerics. That much blind and healing meant most of the physicals in the team were useless as my monks couldn't keep up with condition removal.

If I had been playing a less balanced team, and gone all magic, we would have nuked them in short order.

HM Guild Wars is more akin to a game of Paper/Scissors/Stone than anything else. Trust me, I know this, I have been stopped at the last group of a vanquish in EN because of a Charr group (Spirit Spammer, 2 monks, 1 Mesmer(with rez), 1 warder, and something else). Luckily though, those "good groups" usually only exist in the later areas and in EN, which is what I was saying in what you quoted me on, the "Hard" Hard Mode areas are rare in non-EN, but rather common in EN, as in NM they are already well balanced.

CoopaTroopa

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/E

The Jotuns can be a pain... [enfeebling blood] and [aegis] really helped me get through.

Another trick would be to try [defensive anthem] on a P/W hero also using [watch yourself!]

it also really helps to bring some caster hate, especially for the bloodcurdlers. at 25 blood magic (or whatever ridiculously high number they have in HM) they can nearly wipe you by themselves.

the final recommendation? jagged sabway mm, sabway SS, monk hybrid hero with aegis and an interrupt or two, and then you as a blindbot (ideally with another copy of aegis for when the monks is down)

santaclaus66

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

Santas Little Helper [XMAS]

R/Mo

Sorry,

I don't get it.

I'm a ranger, go sabway, prot monk henchie, heal monk henchie, two warriors.
Gives me a team of 8.

I go degen, apply poison and burning arrow, and Pain Inverter.

Jotuns hardly get me or any in my team below 50%.

Ok, I have maxed asura now, but still, a Jotun Skullsmasher almost kills himself 100% when PI is triggered.
Even groups of 4 skullsmashers die very fast.

/Santa

glacialphoenix

glacialphoenix

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

Singapore

Royal Order of Flying Lemmings [ROFL]

Mo/

A lot of people have suggested prot spirit, and I will add to that. I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that Lina has it, but AI doesn't pre-prot, so she'll only cast PS once someone gets hit.

Might be easier for you to put it on a hero and manual it so that one of your heroes/henchies can tank with PS on him, as some suggested earlier. (I play with a guildie, and manual prot on whoever's pulling - seems to work fine.)

Arduin

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

And in case you still get killed, rack up some cash and buy some sets of consumables (Grail of Might, Essence of Celerity, Armor of Salvation).

Some say they are cheating, but it's no good getting frustrated about one silly dungeon you can't complete.

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malician
.. right. I'm using an air ele with Sabway and Herta, Mhenlo/Lina and.. tried several henches for the 8th spot. They're perfect outfitted (inc. sup vigor) with all the right runes and insignias.

I've seen it said very often that PVE is incredibly easy, there's nothing hard in PVE. I see people with healing breeze builds somehow survive. That begs the question: why am I dying?

It's all fairly easy until I run into a group of about.. 6-8 Jotun. You attack one, the rest all come; there's no way to pull just one. Pretty soon, someone just DIES INSTANTLY. Nothing seems to help. Later on, there's a gigantic gang of innumerable Vaettirs. Same thing - can't pull anything, instant death to a party member and it just gets worse from there. I've tried spreading blind and weakness on different enemies, I've tried doing nothing but spiking one - nothing really seems to matter. Tips? Is there something really, really obvious I'm missing from my play? Jotun are harsh in Hard Mode. I try to bring the following skills to help counter them:

[Ward of Stability] - I stick this on an Earth Ele hero, usually, and wards get cast early on in a battle by heroes.
[Blinding Flash][Epidemic] - I also play Ele in most of Hard Mode, I use this to keep as many Melee Jotun blind as possible.
[Enfeebling Blood] - as previously stated, always good to help reduce damage.

I tend to spike off the Mindbreakers first. They can severely disrupt casters with interrupts, hex-interrupts and Backfire. The last thing I need is me taking 140+HP damage from Backfire when casting Blinding Flash, or Dunkoro taking 140+HP damage when spamming Word of Healing.

I then try to get rid of any Bladeturners since they have the ability to remove hexes and bug Casters through Arcane Conundrum.

I then go at the Bloodcurdlers. I find the two types of Mesmer don't take long to get rid of, and the Bloodcurdlers are really irritating foes. They have a very nasty habit of surviving thanks to the lifesteal abilities.

I deal with the Skullsmashers last, because they're generally harmless when blinded.

As far as killing them goes, armor ignoring damage seems far better against them than anything else. Mesmers and Necromancers do work well, but also remember Health Degeneration is armor ignoring so try spreading Bleeding, Poison, Disease and/or Burning around to give them 10 health degeneration. I particularly love Disease as it's the condition that just keeps on giving. Degen conditions are far more useful than degen hexes (such as [[Conjure Nightmare] and [[Conjure Phantasm]) since they're often much easier to apply, and cheaper to apply, and also are able to be spread.

Rothan Celt

Rothan Celt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2008

Aura

Mo/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Widowmaker
A [ebon dust aura] + [volley] ranger makes HM physical damage dealers a lot easier to cope with. What i used + Technological. Techno and those 2 skills generaly own this dungeon