A Real PvP Title

Face it, all of the PvP Titles in Guild Wars are a joke.

Hero - a massive grind. Most of the rank 12 players are hardly even close to being the "top players" in Guild Wars.
Champion - another massive grind. With the introduction of buying/selling guilds, terrible players are able to achieve rank 2 or even rank 3 of Champion with relative ease. These points are easily bought.
Kurzick/Luxon - this isn't a PvP title. Alliance Battles can't be considered PvP.
Gladiator - another massive grind; it just depends on how long you are willing to stay in Team Arenas before you pass out.
Commander - I can't believe this is a title.

So, how do we remedy this problem? How do we get a PvP title that measures something that sort of matters?
Well, let's take a look at the PvP left in Guild Wars that truly means anything at all.
Random Arenas/Team Arenas - the title cannot involve any of these. Simple: too farmable, and too large of a player base to consider for a real title.
Hero's Ascent - already a title here.
GvG - while there's a large player base, restricting the title to the "top 10" guilds would be too exclusive, and it would be a massive grind for players to hit the top 10 - that's over 500 rating that needs to be gained, which is ridiculous. Champion points already exist, and that's already a problem since they are easily bought/sold.
Automated Tournaments - now we're getting closer to measuring true skill. The most problem here, though, is that most automated GvG tournaments are filled with AFK Guilds, so it's irrational to give a title based on how many wins/reward points/qualifier points you have earned in an Automated Tournament. However, a clever idea is proposed below.
Monthly Automated Tournaments - see below.

So now we've narrowed it down to ATs and mATs. The biggest problem of an AT is that there are too many AFK guilds, so I'd suggest a title based on ranking. Here's how it would go:

Conquerer: For every GvG automated tournament with at least 16 participating guilds, you gain one point whenever you place 1st and you participate in every round of the tournament.

Rank 1: 3 points
Rank 2: 7 points
Rank 3: 13 points
Rank 4: 18 points
Rank 5: 24 points
...

or,

Subjugator: For every Monthly Automated GvG Tournament Single Elimination round you win, you gain one point. (you lose 1 point if you have more than 3 monks on your team during a match; you gain 30 points if you win the tournament using Glyph of Sacrifice + Meteor Shower)

Rank 1: 1 point
Rank 2: 4 points
Rank 3: 8 points
Rank 4: 12 points
Rank 5: 16 points
Rank 6: 20 points
Rank 7: 24 points
Rank 8: 28 points
Rank 9: 32 points
...

no more titles

just take em all away problem solved

I'll mostly agree with you on the title issue, and your suggestion isn't bad at all, having a PvP title that can't be farmed/grinded or easily exploited. It'd be a step in the right direction toward meaning or "skill>time" aspect behind titles, at least for GW2. It's tough when you start to think of solutions or similar examples of what you posted for other forms of PvP, now that i think about it actually...

But personally i consider myself to be a decent PvP'er, but find GvG excruciatingly boring. Your suggestion of Conqueror would clearly be one of the more "elite" titles to have, definitely a prestigious thing to show off, but being a casual player i'm more concerned about what should be done about the more low-end PvP titles, ya know? That is just me though.

But Conqueror just sounds like a badass title all in itself, none the less :P

I agree there should be a low-end GvG title; however, in doing so it'd be ridiculous. It'd be something like, the number of GvG matches in the top 1,000 you have won. To make it even worthwhile the number of matches required would be in the thousands for rank 5 or rank 6 - it'd just be a grindfest. In fact, it'd turn GvG into somewhat like HB, where people would just roll for the title to make things faster, which is stupid.

Possible problem, I filled in on the opening match for qE at the invitation of Divine Ambassador, though I have previously owned a top 100 gvg guild, that was over 2 years ago. Since tourney rewards are based on the opening round rosters, wouldn't this give me a point? Even though I only played in one match? Take this a step farther, top guild notices they have a first round match against afk guild, suddenly they can "sell" 4 points as they can put 4 non guildies on their opening team and still win the first match. Assuming they then go on to win all remaining matches with their real players, the four people just got a point without any effort.

I think you are blind. I already foresaw this problem. I already remedied it.

/notsigned to your titles

The AB comment... I'll ignore to avoid me flaming you.

The only title that should be added for PvP, would either be a title for balthazar faction (preferred not) or a PvP version of KoaBD, but not for Maxing, but for ranks, so in order to max that, or even have a "good rank" you need to have to do all "PvP" titles (Commander, Gladiator, Champion, Hero) *I don't count Kurzick/Luxon titles because they can be gained through PvE as well, and NOT because "AB is not PvP" (which is it PvP)*

I don't agree with your title suggestions only because it favors to those with a good guild, still. It doesn't seem much different from Champion other then point system and the conditions.

The point of these titles is to avoid grind. Skill>time: the whole point of Guild Wars. In all honesty, these titles don't require that much time to acquire; you just have to be good enough to win 1st place in ATs and make it into the single elimination rounds.

Balthazar Faction and all the other PvP titles are grind (to a lesser extent, Champion over the double champion weekends). Champion can be bought and sold. These titles: I hardly doubt you'd be able to buy/sell these titles.

Alliance battles is as much PvP as clicking 12345 on your skill bar.

I'll humor you, why are Alliance Battles not PvP?

/not signed. Those title suggestions don't eliminate grind. They just introduce a new kind of grind.

Because you spend more time killing NPCs than actual players, and you are paired randomly with players you cannot cooperate with; but this is all besides the point.

Regardless, there are zero PvP titles that reward true skill. There should be a fix for that.

What grind? Practicing for monthly automated tournaments to improve your skill level? That's not called grind. Grind is mindless work that could possibly be done by anybody. The mAT is not mindless work that could be done by anybody. In fact, I doubt that acquiring the Qualifier Points to even qualify is "mindless work".

All you need to do is win once.

So I guess GvG isn't real PvP then because it involves spending time killing NPCs (depending on your spot if you're splitting you'll be dealing with them way more than players too.).

Hmmm

PvP is Player versus Player. If its a player pitted against another player in a competitive versus "to the death" environment it is PvP. More over, they are all PvP outposts, force you to use PvP skills, and are defined PvP by the game. You are wrong.

kthnxbai

The key element here, is that cooperation is possible amongst all players in GvG. If cooperation amongst all 12 players in Alliance Battles was possible (as in, you could choose your team of 12), then Alliance Battles would no doubt be an excellent format to play in. Without a doubt, it would require much more skill and cooperation than GvG, as it is a dedicated split format with more players.

ArenaNet isn't the smartest of groups, and having them define what is "PvP" isn't necessarily wise. Even though you are playing in a "PvP" format, you are pitted against terrible players who don't know simple splitting strategies/common sense. You aren't allowed to collaborate between your ENTIRE team, nor are you allowed to control most situations. It becomes, at the end, nothing more than a bad version of Random Arenas.

Competitive Player versus Player involves much more than button mashing and screaming at three other people. Competitive Player versus Player involves skill, tactics, common sense and above all, a deeper sense for the game. Alliance Battles involves none of that, and even if it does, a very minute level. Again, this discussion is on an actual PvP title, not about a bad PvE format.

In GW, the general rule is:

Play alot > Play skillfull...

The fact that U can't loose Champ or Hero Points defeats the purpose of calling them PvP-"skill" titles...

If you can only GAIN a title, the worst player will eventually get Rank XX in track xx...

If you want to avoid grind, avoid PvP, because it is all the same thing, killing people over, and over, and over, and over... and.... over...

But in honesty here, any title basically means grind, except for a very few (Protector, Cartographer, Guardian, Vanquisher(arguable), Skill Hunter, Master of the North).

You kill NPCs in RA, TA, HA, GvG, HB, Ziashen Challenge/Elite, yet those are considered PvP. You are pared randomly with players you cannot cooperate with in RA, yet that is still PvP. AB is PvP, just a different format then the other PvP forms. You can kill players in AB, therefore it is PvP, that is how I see it at least, and apparently how the game sees it, also FA and JQ are PvP. Easiest way to figure out if something is PvP or not, is to look for a little icon in the top left corner (by default) that looks like this.

What does PvP stand for again? Oh yeah, PLAYER vs. PLAYER. Stop with your terrible argument, "QQ AB isn't PvP!!!"

Gratz! you just called some of the most respected titles in the game "mindless work," and insulted some of the best players in the game.

/notsigned

titles like champion are exclusives for some players so, if someone have that, ppl can say that him is a good player on gvg

a little thing.....why ab isn't a pvp? (pvp= Player vs Player)

ps: sorry for my bad english

And yet I highly doubt you're even close to maxing any of them, GvG already has a title for it, no point in 2 more.

Everything is grind if you want it to be, ever heard of having fun?

/notsigned

/notsigned

You can find grind in everything if you want. In GW time spent in PvP -> your PvP Rang, so it show other ppl that you HAS experience in PvP.
PvP rang that is show true skill rate must be as ladder, so it can be lost if someone has better skill.

Though these can be good ideas, all I have to say is too little too late.

If you really want to avoid title grind, then this title can only be for monthlies. Because let's face it, if the dAT title has been around since the start of ATs, RIP would be rank 10 and dR would only be like rank 3 (well, I'd probably be rank 12 since I played for RIP too ~.~) Why? Because RIP's won at least 5 ATs a week when they played (and participated in 10 a week), and dR barely does 3 ATs a week.

Then again, there's no reason to add another title for mATs, since if you want to get into a good guild, they'd be looking at your guild histories, and not a silly title. The only thing it'd do is boost my epeen and give me more reason to make fun of lemming.

I'd be all for AB titles if it wasn't such an unorganized scrubfest that shares a title with botters.

I had a chuckle. Do I get bonus points if we run 3 split eles?

stupid idea, we don't realy need even more useless titles.

Newsflash : no title will ever "matter" or "be real". Get over it.

/NOTSIGNED


i dont do pvp that much but still im r3 glad. when i started RA/TA i was a complete noob
i know ive grinded a lot but ive gain experience. its not fair to say that ppl like me dont deserve credit! we started as noobs but walked our way trough. doesnt matter what you say!!! someone who has a pvp rank is experienced




this tread should be close.....

^
I've seen tons of people with many different PvP titles. They were bad at the game still. Titles mean shit.

No title can equate to people viewing your playstyle for themselves and knowing you're decent.

Kurzick/Luxon - this isn't a PvP title. Alliance Battles can't be considered PvP.

PvP = Player Versus Player.

When you do Alliance Battles,you're a player,right? And what you kill? Mursaat? Raptors? Smites? Eh...no,I think not. You kill other players...that's why it's called 'Player Versus Player'.

Don't understand why you don't considerate that PvP...

If you go to Random Arenas and you don't fight...you're not doing PvP,so? Becouse you don't 'versus' no one? rofl...

IGN:Baku The Killer.

Don´t add more titles. If you introduce more titles to the game, there will be more Rank Discrimination, completely shattering your idea of a fair PvP.







Querido Baku, creo que el OP no considera 12 como PvP debido a la falta de comunicación entre los miembros del equipo y entre que muchos PvEros participan en el con builds PvEras. Yo hasta he llegado a ver Ursans en mi equipo.

Además, hay que tener en cuenta el título de 12 puede obtenerse haciendo HFFF, destruyendo todo significado PvPero.

Exacto. No haces PvP, simplemente haces el Leecher, ganándote un report.

Pequeña nota: No se dice ``You kill to other players´´, se dice ``You kill other players.

Side note: Zomgtastic, I didn´t expect to write in Spanish on an Inter Forum.

The only PvP title that matters is your fun meter, if you're grinding out shit not having fun for a title u fail anyway. You could probably formulate a better system for quantifying skill into a title but it would only be a matter of time before that title also had ill effects on the game. I know that the glad title has turned TA into the same jokefest HA is, do you really want to ruin more stuff with a lousy title?

Oh... interesting... a 'give me a title for what I like to do' title... hm...

No.

What he said. Of course, there could be a hidden message, because I understood only 90% of that... But it's not that hard.

In general - 12 players with pve builds vs 12 players with vs builds = 12 vs 12 pve vs pve.

All title require time to gather yes. Don't like it don't farm it. Whatever what, you cannot say that for the time your did farm them that you didn't improve at all, therefor they still have their meaning.

AB is PvP.

This one was the worst part of the idea. A part of Guild Wars is to make builds. If something require balance, that's another story.

I feel that rather than adding titles, ArenaNet should be removing titles. They're a grind-linked feature in a game that was supposed to do away with grind.

Takes a second or two to kill NPCs. Takes notably longer on humans. Definitely more player combat than NPC.

So is RA, but that's considered PvP. And in AB you can also join up with guild members for a degree of control.

just what we needed
even more rank discrimination
that's really gonna boost pvp
/notsigned

Unfortunately, the main problem I see with Guild Wars Guru, now, is that whenever any post related to PvP is made, everyone without experience in the field decides to post their uninformed and incorrect opinion. Yes, your opinions are all incorrect because really, you are all slightly retarded for basically saying the same thing over and over again: "I don't like X title because it doesn't benefit me, and I don't have a chance at getting it. Therefore, I should be wholeheartedly against the idea even though I have no idea what I'm talking about." I don't comment often about PvE ideas because I don't play PvE much (except to get my GWAMM) and I don't know much about PvE. Unfortunately, not knowing much about the subject is not stopping many of you from commenting. Divine is probably the only person who said anything worthwhile.

So, first of all, I'd like to point out some things in this post that made me chuckle.

The italicized text was meant to be a joke, something you clearly didn't understand. Don't comment on things you clearly have no experience in.

What?

The best/most respected players in the game know that the titles mean absolutely nothing and are, indeed, mindless work. Rank 12 in HA, regardless of how good you are, takes forever. Champion takes forever; it already takes forever to get a match during American times; getting a champion-point range match takes even longer.

In a perfect world, having a high (or rather even rank 1) champion would mean you're a good GvG player. Unfortunately, I've already addressed this case; there are many horrible GvG players that have this Champion rank which has caused its meaning to degenerate to nothing.

The thing I see, first of all, in Alliance Battles, is that the NPCs come back. Once you kill them, they're not "gone forever", like they are in GvG. Instead, you can wipe a shrine, and have the other team cap over it, and make more NPCs appear. In addition, shrine capping gives NPCs almost the same value as players: with each NPC you keep alive, you get +1 to your shrine capturing ability. Lastly, there are many NPCs, sadly, that have better bars and are more efficient than actual players. As a sidenote, RA isn't really considered PvP. I was referring more to TA.

In GvG, however, I do understand that there are more NPCs than there are players; however, at VoD, the players are extremely important. If an entire team is wiped at 20:01, the NPCs really don't matter since you can easily just pull and farm the NPCs in two minutes (or actually just kill the lord, but that's besides the point). You actually need people to back up your NPCs. In Alliance Battles, it's more just running around and killing NPCs, and engaging other players whenever you feel like you can win.

For the translation:

Dear Baku, I think the OP doesn't consider 12v12 because of the lack of communication between the team members and that there are many PvErs that participate in AB with PvE builds. I've even had Ursans on my team. There's also a possibility to obtain the title with HFFF, which essentially destroys any PvP significance.

I lol'd hard. The only people who criticize this are whoru's with no experience and who really don't understand this.

Anyway, I like option #2 better than option #1, as Single Elimination wins cannot be bought/sold, but AT wins aren't that difficult if you know when to play.

For the countless people who are all "QQ AB is PvP bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww". Honestly, yes it is Players playing against other Players, but in all honesty, if I can go in with a Mo/Rt with 8 rezzes on my bar and still win, it probably doesn't take any skill to play (yes, I did actually do that and won).

You posted on a public forum in a general suggestions section expecting responses purely from veterans?

lol

Get over it or go join an experienced PvP guild, jump on their forum and post the idea like any moderately serious PvPer would.

If you honestly didn't want such responses you either wouldn't post here, most experienced PvPers I know don't or certainly don't anymore, or your expectations were ridiculously high.

Your also stating everyone who has replied is inexperienced merely because they disagree with you.

Elite mentality much?

/not signed, my reasons have already been covered.

Oh and for the record AB is PvP, it's just predominately easy-access low-end PvP like RA hence why so many PvPers with "leet" mentalities incessantly flame it.

/end argument.
I could take nothing but [frenzy] into a GvG and still win.All your saying is you were up against scrubs.

/notsigned

Way to poop on tonnes of peoples concerted effort to gain titles. Saying that each of those titles don't matter is just elitist, I think thats actually quite offensive.

Everyone who's in a pve guild trying to whoru Protoss should at least stop to take a look at his guild's latter performance before posting.

/notsigned

Last thing we need is more titles.

So.. You want a title for the thing you do, and calls what you dont do mindless grind and unimportant. Interesting.
/signetforthat

First of all, I like your ideas lutz.
Second, @ Divine - you're right about the dAT title thing, but he's not suggesting to revert the time and then implement the title (correct me if I'm wrong but I think he hoped to get more people in dATs this way , especially because american playtimes are dead :/ )
@ all the people who scream at other people who say AB is not PvP - I'm pretty sure the people #2 are just making sarcastic jokes . In a basic definition it IS PvP, in everything else, it's not.
- Did you read the description of Sardelac Sanitarium section? I doubt posting new ideas in some PvP guild's forum would make some difference.

I also agree with lutz's ''Don't post if you don't have expirience about it''. Doing that you're most likely to get the thread closed and it's all lost :/ . If some PvPer posts stuff like that in PvE section you call him a troll etc. Calling lutz an elitist for saying that is pretty sad >_>