Just Another Grind Game ?

I got chaos gloves by doing predictions
is that grind?

Whats the point of getting all this cool stuff it doesnt advance my character. Is there a fashion show going on?

o lawd o lawd if my asura title isn't maxed i jus' don't know what I be doin' with myself...

GW2 is looking more and more like a 2010 release....they had to keep PvE players interested in GW somehow.

Short answer...yes.

I am a grind-complainer, and it's not because of shiny items. I have 6 PvE characters, and 2 PvP slots. I am mainly a PvPer, but whenever I'm on GW and not PvPing, I do PvE. I play PvE alot, I would say. I have beaten every campaign on at least 2 of my characters, and I'm just like "What is there left for me to do here.. really?" All that's really left is getting KoaBD, which I am currently working on on my Ranger (I got 3 max titles in about 2 hours... was kind of weird).

The only content I have left to explore really, is vanquishing every area, doing every mission NM and HM masters, and do cartographer. Basically, I've exhausted PvE except for grinding. I suppose I could go and beat all 4 campaigns on each of my 6 characters, but... that would be a grind.

Edit: Also, when starting Nightfall chars, there's a few primary quests that are "Grind to Sunspear rank 5." Those should be done away with imo.

While I do agree somewhat that it is unfortunate that you have to get to rank 5 sunspear to advance the story, it takes no time at all. An hour or two and you've got it. That's the only mandatory grind in the game that I know of. And you don't even need to grind that. Do quests, making sure to pick up the bounties whenever you go into an explorable area, and you've got the title without the grind.

I will never understand why so many people think that all the grind in the game is something they've got to do, as if they'll catch a horrible, wilting disease if they don't. As many others have said, you can complete the game without any grind at all (except the aforementioned sunspear title, which is only a grind if you make it that way). You don't need prestige items. You don't need PvE skills (which are still quite powerful at lower ranks, so I really don't see the problem there).

Sure, there is some title discrimination, but honestly, before that there was profession discrimination, and I'd much rather it the way it is now. It's much easier to grind a title than it is to change my primary profession. You also have another choice. Don't join those groups. Find a guild who also doesn't like titles and PvE skills.

Why does the existence of the HoM affect anything? You do realise that all you will get for your HoM achievements in GW2 will probably just be some titles that show that you did it in GW1. It's already been stated that nothing you do for the HoM will give you any advantage over any other player. It is also in no way required, so your argument is irrelevant.

As far as I'm concerned, it's still a requirement for completion.

Don't forget the 10k faction thing too...

I think that's because your confusing the fact most players that object to grind agree with you.

You don't need any of that stuff to finish the game but it makes it a heck load more fun and tbh what exactly is there to do after finishing the game.....exactly.

My objection has always been that every player at lvl 20 was on a level playing field which was easily attained, that was GW, until they invented PvE only skills who's potency is linked to grind, which turned it into Grindwars imo.

Considering the PvE skills are OP'd or pretty game altering it's like making players with those titles maxed who use the skills lvl 21-22 and then saying to the community "But you don't HAVE to be lvl 22....it's only an option".

I don't have a problem with grinds in RPG type games. That's just a necessary part of this type of game. However, in my past experiences with games like WoW, Warcraft, and Elder Scrolls whenever you finally get to the end of the grind you feel like it was worth it the majority of the time.

I am not an experienced GW player, but from what I have experienced myself and from the knowledge I gained through wikis and forums there isn't much to be satisfied with at the end of the grind. The things you grind for in this game such as titles or loads of money for a rare skinned item don't actually improve your gameplay or characters as they do in other RPGs.

In the endgame of GW the rewards for grinding are just for show. Maybe that's appealing to kids who crave attention. It may even be satisfying for some of the lesser grinds initially, but it's the same thing with every endgame grind. It really doesn't improve gameplay experience whatsoever unless you need to feed your elitist attitude.

This problem is magnified somewhat due to the speed at which a player can reach the level cap and the speed at which you can finish the storyline. I've already bought all of the chapters so I'm going to stick with GW until I play through the storylines and quests, but you can forget about the long grinds. Once I'm done with that though there really isn't anything appealing about GW's endgame that makes me want to keep playing. I am disappointed about this, but I guess you can't expect too much since there's no subscription fee (aka incentive for developers to produce fun, creative endgame content).

If titles make the game more fun, then none of these threads would ever be created. Don't get me wrong. I actually enjoy having a goal that I want to get to. I enjoy working on those titles. But obviously, some people don't. And unforunately, most of those people have the mindset of "If it's there, I must have it. If I don't want it, it shouldn't be there."

There'll always be things that I won't be able to get in the game, because I don't enjoy what I would have to do to get them. For instance, I don't like PvP as far as I know, but I wouldn't mind getting the required rank in those titles to put them in my HoM (I'm a bit of a perfectionist, but luckily not so much that I will go out of my way to do something I don't enjoy to obtain something). I wouldn't mind playing PvP some more and see if I can enjoy it. Unfortunately, the attitude of a lot of PvP players, and overly competitive sorts in general, just puts me off. So getting into PvP would be some sort of grind for me, and therefore I won't subject myself to it (well, I am determined to at least give it more of a chance than I have in the past, but I'm not going to persevere if I'm hating it).

What is there to do after finishing the game? Well, you could always leave? Why do so many people think that playing this game is some sort of necessity? You can see it in those threads where people request ideas to revitalise the game in their eyes. If you're bored, or you have finished all that you want to do, then just leave. (Well, I do have some idea as to why so many people try to hold on. They remember what it used to be like. But there's no point holding on to something that is definitely never coming back, and that's what many people need to realise. It's like holding on to a loveless, dead marriage. It's sad to let it go, but it is healthy in the long run.)

Here is the problem. You don't get a "good start" by having these titles complete. You don't get better armor/weapons than everyone else. You don't start at a higher level. And you don't get the best skills at the start of the game.

What you get from these titles in the HoM are just vanity items that don't make you any better than anyone else when you start. We will probably get a title or a mini pet of some sort. Here is a wild one, maybe we will be able to make the color of our armor red when we first make our characters while everyone else can only choose from green/blue/brown armor.

So like others have said, you don't need to grind in GW.

Nope, you heard wrong.

Just about all of the top, elite PVE guilds run Ursan. I have been in a few.

If you manage to find a guild that doesnt run ursan, it wont have daily fow runs due to a serious shortage of people.

Making SS/LB and the Gwen titles abount based would help a great deal for reducing grind on multiple characters. Just like the cantha titles are.

There is this great thing called the search function. It is your friend...

Guild Wars has grind, yes. Does it have a ton of grind in comparison to other games? No, not since they fixed a few things (like making book turn in very lucrative)

Does the grind appeal to a lot of the PvEers? Yes.

End.

Who cares. It's a well priced game.

I've put $200 into Guild Wars, I'd like to think after moving on from it that I got my $200 worth.

There are three types of grind in Guild Wars: Grind for vanity, grind for story progression, and grind for mechanical benefit.

Grind for vanity has always been there, and few if anyone ever complains about them. If someone wants to put in the grind for obsidian armour with chaos gloves and GWAMM, more power to them, as long as it's still a level playing field.

The grind for story progression - specifically, the Kurz/Lux faction and Sunspear rank - which I actually kinda liked in principle, although the implementation left a little to be desired. With the exception of the Luxons (which really should have had more quests in the pre-Gyala areas) there were enough quests available to achieve the progression requirement that you could achieve the requirement by questing rather than grinding. Essentially, they acted like a quest branch, but instead of just one or two choices, you had a whole range of choices. Maybe the SS one would have worked better if there actually weren't bounties at all and quests gave considerably more points each to highlight the connection and make it so that grinding just wasn't an option, but the general idea wasn't too bad.

Grind for mechanical benefit started sneaking in before Nightfall and got steadily worse from there. This is the one people have problems with, as they mean the playing field simply isn't level any more - especially considering that most of the truly broken builds out there rely on at least one or two PvE skill, to be competitive with someone who's done the grind you have to do it yourself. This is highlighted by the fact that, unlike the story progression grinds, there simply aren't the quests to max your title - you're forced to engage in some kind of repetitive activity to get there, whether it's filling books over and over again or zone clearing expeditions.

This is why I've said in the past that I'd rather have general XP grind than title grind - then people could advance their character in whatever means they choose instead of being restricted to a handful of specific activities that increase a title.

Regarding GW2 and the HoM: Everything the company has said so far is that the contents of the HoM will provide no mechanical benefit over people who don't have it. Of course, they say the same thing about preorder items... which, while no better than can be acquired during play, are nonetheless much more convenient to acquire. Still, the indication seems to be a strong one that not filling the HoM will not be putting you at a disadvantage for the sequel.

For sure and I play GW a lot less now I've finished it.

The thing is customers will be customers.Some will leave, some will stay.Many will argue that Anet has replaced content with grind.

At the end of the day it's all opinion and I think every one who payed cash for the game has that right.

Again my only issue is changing the max cap tier through grind based OP'd PvE skills.Other than that I have no issue with grind as it doesn't effect my game, as it shouldn't.

QFT and I like your comment on XP grind.

QFT

Surely, the greatest rewards don't show when you press H (Hero) key, but rather G (Guild) key and N (F-list) key. Without those I wouldn't be playing anymore. (I rarely do these days though, but that's another story)

for everyone who says getting the require material to get something in the game is grinding, why don't you suggest a better way to get chaos glove or any armor.

one day while holding hands with Koss, walking along the lonely path of jahai bluff, I suddenly push Koss away with brute force because far ahead I see a chaos glove dropping from the sky. and i wanted chaos glove for some time now, so I had to push him away fairly quickly, only to realise that I've push him towards the glove even closer. at lass, i did not get the glove , but was very happy to find out that is only a left side.

If you took more than 2 seconds to think and share your thoughts with the community you'd realize that Guild Wars or any game has absolutely no meaning and achieving anything in game doesn't count for nothing outside of it and that they're purely a means of ENTERTAINMENT like watching tv and getting wasted, you're doing it for fun not titles or chaos gloves.

I see this in every other thread. Have I missed something, because I have never seen an interview/article that claims that HoM and titles would give some concrete benefit in GW2 like gold, better weapons, armor, etc.? I've only read about cosmetic rewards which don't give a GW1 player any real advantage over new GW2 players. This would make sense, and personally I doubt they will offer anything more; if anyone expects to get the GW2 equivalent of black lotus, stone of jordan or the holy grail because of accomplishments in GW1, he/she will probably be sorely disappointed.

Nice and clear post there. It's true, nobody was complaining about the costs of FoW armor when Ecto still were 15k each. If you wanted that ridiculously expensive armor, you'd better start farming for it.

However, as soon as the benefits of that farming/grinding starts giving actual benefits instead of just another skin, people will start complaining about that very grinding.

Still, some people don't care about having to grind. Some even like it. If they can improve their character by completing simple tasks over and over, they'll happily do so. That's their way of playing the game.

Other people detest this way. Those are the skill>time people, something GW was advertising with from the start. They choose not to grind, but find out after completing the campaigns there's not much left for them to do, without having to resort to grinding. For those people, GW has changed for the worse, I'll admit that much.

Playing from the launch of GW, I've been having fun finishing all campaigns, farming a bit, chatting with some friends now and then. Now, I'm at the point of having completed all PvE content at least once. I'm not interested in PvP, or grinding obsessively. I do enjoy some grinding, like completing Dungeon Books for a title, just because one of my goals is to acquire GWAMM on my main character. Yet, I severely cut down on my playing time for GW. Instead of 2-3 hours a day, it went to 2-3 hours a week. It will take me some time maxing those last titles, but I'll make sure I'm still enjoying it.

So maybe that's a suggestion for all those people burn-out on GW. Go play some different game, or something different entirely. GW will still be there when you log in one month later. You can't force yourself to like this game. If you stop liking it, stop playing it.

A scavenger hunt/long quest?

Too bad when two of them mix with each other.

You're correct. HoM will not give a headstart or any kind of advantage. Those that incorrectly read the information and spread this false information are going to be beyond disappointment when GW2 comes out ...

It's not my job to design the game, I'm the consumer. As the consumer, I'm under no obligation to accept flawed design mechanics just because making it an actual game was "too hard". As a consumer who doesn't accept those flawed mechanics, I'll gripe all I want about grind. Also, since I'm not an imbecile, I won't keep playing a game that's not fun just to get a stupid looking glove. Personally, I don't think repeating the same couple of areas over and over again by brainlessly hitting the 1-8 keys on my keyboard to get a stack of little icons is fun.

But, since you asked, it's pretty easy. It's been done in, what, a thousand other non-MMO games before?

You make them rewards for completing difficult tasks. None of this WoW-influenced crap where you have a 2% drop rate on a piece of armor you HAVE TO have to get through the next dungeon to repeat the entire process on a new piece of armor with a 2% drop rate.

None of this crap where you have to grind through the same couple of UW and FoW quests and monsters just to get enough materials to produce one stupid armor set that has no actual bearing on the game beyond what you see on screen.

You design a game that's enjoyable to play, and you offer increasingly difficult challenges, and you reward people for doing them. If it's just a fun game, people won't mind doing the increasingly difficult things. Reference: Tetris.

Unfortunately, MMO manufacturers apparently never played any fun games, so what you get is a bunch of half-arsed garbage where you click on an enemy, wail away for a few minutes, and get some useless junk so you can repeat it all over again for hundreds of hours of your life.

Guild Wars came close by creating a fun game, but they forgot to provide any rewards for doing more difficult content. If somebody could combine the tactical aspects of Guild Wars and the reward-based gameplay of WoW, they'd have a great game. Too bad nobody's doing that.

Guild wars has a good story line.

I think I'm having Arby's for lunch

They should make a title about people bitching.

2% drop rate doing difficult task? Is that not like going to FoW to farm for ectos?

actually i also have an idea, weather it can be done is not for me to decide, but i think I can, just means more works on Anet's part.

Make the necessary materials drop in different places :P~ Instead of always doing the same run over and over and over you move the materials all over the place. And you change the monsters's skill and ability every where, say every month or better still unannounced, so if you want to farm for something you have to really look for it, you can't just go to FoW for ecto or where ever for arm braces, and to know where it drops, friends and alliance comes in handy, or you better know your game! cos , monsters should not be that stupid, and should not be stationary and only appear in one place, for instant, how stupid are the destroyers that everyday players kill them ans still they are there waiting to be kill, and how effective can destroyers be if they are always at one single place.

*bows*

What lead me to that realisation was a merger of two others:

First, the difference between having a title level that requires lots of grind and one that doesn't generally isn't all that big. It's probably about a couple of level's worth.

Second, it's not really the idea of working for those extra one or two levels that bothers me. It's that the only way to get them is to engage in repetitive behaviour - grind, in other words. There are still plenty of quests in Kaineng and Nightfall I haven't even done once - it might actually be something I'd appreciate it if they gave more than a haldful of gold, 1/5 of a superior salvage kit, and a few more points to a meaningless number (which XP really is after the first few hundred thousand. I have more skill points than I could ever spend even on my least-used character...)

Levelling via XP can be grind-free, as long as there's enough non-grinding content to gain that experience without grinding - which Guild Wars has, and which is why story progression grind doesn't bother me (because it can be collected easily enough while doing quests, I don't consider it grind at all). The problem is that the way that the GW is currently set up, maxing titles requires far more points than questing can give - ergo, grind.

Which is pretty much what I've been doing. Nowadays, I tend to log in on weekends (when there's a chance guildies are on) and maybe I'll do a little on a weekday. Myself, I'm looking at finishing the campaigns with all professions rather than chasing a title.

Maybe that's what GW2 is aiming for?

Not if it only drops from the boss at the end of the dungeon, and there are other people in your party who might want it as well.

(Besides, to nitpick, it's the UW you go to for ectos. )

Ah but I can have all of the nice things without grind. I can have great storylines, awesome graphics, wonderful gameplay, and a fun guild/alliance full of nice people. none of those required grind.....

As regards to the benefits for GW2 of a full HoM in GW1...I personally dont think that they will be all that important. I hope that such benefits are cosmetic at best because I want to see alot of new players for GW2 and I do believe that people will be put off they know that you had to play GW1 extensively in order to be on a par with players in the new stand-alone game of GW2.

If you want to go into an elite area, there is no option about it. You MUST grind lightbringer and you MUST grind norn. In order to have a full HoM, you MUST grind other titles too unless you can afford the "buyable" titles to fill it, in which case you MUST grind for the cash to afford it.

This is all stupidly easy to do, and stupid being the operative word because I can feel it killing brains cells whenever I MUST grind something just to take part in something in this game.

I have beaten all the campaigns with all my char's and I don't feel like spending another 10$ just for another slot so I can do it again.

Jealousy? No, I have most the items and all the "leet" armor sets I like. I don't care about being number 5,000,001 to own a pair of chaos gloves or a tormented weapon/amethyst aegis combo or an inventory clogged with 15k armor to "feel special".

I just want to be able to go to DoA or UW or FoW with ANY char I feel like playing that day without having to do 20 hrs of mind-numbing crap first.

Current titles don't give much advantage in game but people like to wear them and people still want to show their Koabd track in GW2 so if the reward is vanity people are shooting for it for that reason not to get an advantage but to have status. There is an undercurrent of some people who don't want to see anybody get anything other than a booby prize but we already covered what they are all about.

Yea, which is why I could also never stomach playing World of Warcraft for more than a month or two at time.

Sooo... instead of just grinding through the same MOBs over and over.... I'd have to chase them around the map to grind through them over and over?

That would make me stabby.

Actually, if MMO makers would focus on making a FUN game instead of focusing on keeping nerds with 8 hours a day of free time happy, MMOs might actually be worth playing. Tell the little nutjobs that spend 3000 hours every year on the game to go pound sand when they whine that they blew through all the content and there's nothing left to do. Rather than focusing on trying to keep them on their little mouse wheel month after month, I wish someone would focus on just making a fun game and not worrying about it when 1% of the playerbase blows through it in 3 weeks.

The other 99% of us who have jobs and sex will keep playing if it's fun, don't worry about the nerd-raging basement dwellers, kthxbai.

How about you name an MMO with less grind, then we'll talk about how to fix GW.

You just won this thread..

All that proves is that the whole MMO genre sucks. Being the least sucky of a sucky thing isn't something to be proud of.

ah! damn it, the secret is out! I don't farm or grind! that's why i still enjoy the game lololol

Ctb: I was thinking, and reading the QQ regarding grind post, players were not happy they have to do the same thing over and over again, that's why i tought of moving the materials around. this way the "grind" changes everytime, hence not a grind becasue they are different everytime, players also can't go straight to an outpost with Ursan anymore, you have to know where they drop, and what mob are there waiting.

Beside i was thinking of myself, the way I play, I probably get more ectos then anyone else, cos i play different maps everyday with different profession character, with different build, killing all enemies on the map. lololol :P~

Where has it been said that anything in the Hall will give you any benefit at the start of GW2? First of all that would be totally unfair to anyone who buys GW2 without ever having played GW1. The most you will gain is something that shows you played GW1, but will give you no advantage over first time players. That being said, the grind is not necessary unless you want some type of honorary acknowledge of what you accomplished in GW1.

That's like my saying that Puzzle games are boring therefore the Puzzle Game genre sucks. Wonderful logic, especially when there are only 2 required grinds in the whole of 4 games. You might need to look into ADD treatment.

wait, why do you need lightbringer & Norn for elite areas? UW,FoW,SF,ToPK,SE,Urgoz,Deep,DoA,.... which one requires a LB or Norn title?

If you really believe that why do you play an MMO?