Rubberbanding and GW2...
NoXiFy
Do you think that this issue will finally be fixed in GW2? I'm worried because theirs only gonna be WASD walking, so clicking to avoid this wont work!
Inde
Hmm, probably not. Why? Because every MMOG I've ever played had rubberbanding at some point. I think it just comes with the territory.
Bryant Again
If anything it's going to be the same, but persistant.
the bourne hells
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Originally Posted by NoXiFy
Do you think that this issue will finally be fixed in GW2? I'm worried because theirs only gonna be WASD walking, so clicking to avoid this wont work!
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Stuart444
there is also arrow walking if you don't like WASD >_>
Aera
They'll have a proper Z-Axis so it should be easier to prevent with the new engine. They said somewhere before they wanted to fix it in GW1 but it wasn't possible because they couldn't just edit the entire engine, that's why the /stuck command came in place.
sibelang
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Originally Posted by NoXiFy
I'm worried because theirs only gonna be WASD walking, so clicking to avoid this wont work!
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DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by NoXiFy
Do you think that this issue will finally be fixed in GW2? I'm worried because theirs only gonna be WASD walking, so clicking to avoid this wont work!
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b) yes, it will be fixed over rubberbanding will still occur from massive lag. But the reasons why it happens now will be fixed (reasons outside of lag) sure.
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Originally Posted by Inde
Hmm, probably not. Why? Because every MMOG I've ever played had rubberbanding at some point. I think it just comes with the territory.
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GW2 is using a new home made engine, so these will be fixed I'm sure. I'm sure people will still rubberband at 6,000ms pings tho.
toastgodsupreme
I can't believe this thread exists.
Do you honestly believe that they wouldn't rewrite the network code for GW2?
They're going to overhaul the entire game EXCEPT the network code. Yeah, that sounds right. (sarcasm)
Do you honestly believe that they wouldn't rewrite the network code for GW2?
They're going to overhaul the entire game EXCEPT the network code. Yeah, that sounds right. (sarcasm)
izzywish
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
a) click to move will still work. WoW has it, AoC has it, and well...any 3D MMO has it.
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"Controls
The control system is going to be significantly changed (in particular mouse movement in the form "click to move" will be removed from the game), however target locking will still function. Guild Wars 2 will introduce a Z-axis to the game which will allow characters to jump over obstacles. Actions which have characters interacting with the environment, such as sliding and swimming will also be introduced."
They may change their mind, or perhaps it is a misquote, however I have read several sources that point to the same idea. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that the Official Wiki thinks you are.
Kusandaa
Hopefully it'll get fixed. Hopefully. I'm tired of rubberbanding as well, and I don't think they're gonna fix it.
The last source of rubberbanding (and IMO the most plausible one) was that it was created by the client not reading he position well - it thinks you can move while on the server itself, you can't. And I think recoding that part would be pretty rough.
There's a price to pay for not being able to hack/edit anything else than skin. I think rubberbanding is, and it's a small price to pay IMO. If you're careful on aggro you can easily avoid rubberbanding by offsetting your course a bit, backing off as a mob comes forward if you're in a narrow space...
The last source of rubberbanding (and IMO the most plausible one) was that it was created by the client not reading he position well - it thinks you can move while on the server itself, you can't. And I think recoding that part would be pretty rough.
There's a price to pay for not being able to hack/edit anything else than skin. I think rubberbanding is, and it's a small price to pay IMO. If you're careful on aggro you can easily avoid rubberbanding by offsetting your course a bit, backing off as a mob comes forward if you're in a narrow space...
Sir Seifus Halbred
I think I am the only person who calls "rubberband lag" "boomerang lag"
Anyhow I highly doubt this issue will go away in GW 2 unfortunately....
Anyhow I highly doubt this issue will go away in GW 2 unfortunately....
Nida
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
If anything it's going to be the same, but persistant.
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12 characters
Inde
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Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme
I can't believe this thread exists.
Do you honestly believe that they wouldn't rewrite the network code for GW2? They're going to overhaul the entire game EXCEPT the network code. Yeah, that sounds right. (sarcasm) |
Gaming companies have been known to sell their gaming engines, use it on more then 1 game, etc. They can upgrade it right from where it's at even and it will still keep some inherent flaws. There's really no way to know if they are doing an entire rewrite of the network code at all. Might want to keep the sarcasm in check.
DarkNecrid
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| They may change their mind, or perhaps it is a misquote, however I have read several sources that point to the same idea. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that the Official Wiki thinks you are. |
I'll keep my hopes up that Anet isn't that bad.
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| Gaming companies have actually been known to sell their gaming engines. Might want to keep the sarcasm in check. |
Inde
I know DarkNecrid, but it doesn't mean they are doing an entire rewrite of the code of their existing engine at all. In fact, I'm not sure why anyone would assume that.
DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by Inde
I know DarkNecrid, but it doesn't mean they are doing an entire rewrite of the code of their existing engine at all. In fact, I'm not sure why anyone would assume that.
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Inde
I hadn't seen that information. Link?
Edit: Got it, nevermind.
Edit: Got it, nevermind.
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| ...a big part of the engine will be rewritten from the ground up, adding new features such as lighting effects, a higher polygon count, and highly improved textures. |
DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by Inde
I hadn't seen that information. Link?
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| Guild Wars 2 is the sequel to the Guild Wars series, and is currently in development by ArenaNet. The game will feature a new game engine, |
Darksun
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Originally Posted by NoXiFy
Do you think that this issue will finally be fixed in GW2? I'm worried because theirs only gonna be WASD walking, so clicking to avoid this wont work!
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Rubberbanding is result of an issue that the internet will always have. Anet can't stop it any more than the weatherman can change the weather.
Inde
Hmm, interesting. Just found this interview with Jeff Strain where they say:
So it's not a completely new engine. A major rewrite yes. Wiki article is a tiny bit misleading.
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Graphics - We will use the Guild Wars engine as a foundation for the Guild Wars 2 engine, but we will be rewriting and upgrading substantial portions of the code to provide a visual experience that players will expect in a sequel to Guild Wars. http://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/games/...t/view/789/54/ |
DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by Inde
Hmm, interesting. Just found this interview with Jeff Strain where they say:
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Originally Posted by Darksun
GW runs excellently & code is less of an issue than the thousands of relays, hubs & networks that the signal most travel through.
Rubberbanding is result of an issue that the internet will always have. Anet can't stop it any more than the weatherman can change the weather. |
Again, examples:
-Use Signet of Mystic Speed while moving.
-run into 1-2 enemies, and stuff. Just move, and have them move. You'll rubberband an assload due to how the engine handles this.
The first example happens because for some stupid reason the aftercast (which forces you to pause) only happens on the client side, so according to the server you are moving, but on your screen you aren't. This is what causes rubberbanding. This happens on quite a few other skills too, actually.
The second example happens because sometimes the engine will (on server side) "see" you as moving, but on your side you aren't because you're running into a guy. If you do this into a bunch of guys you can psuedo-teleport if you don't wind up dying because the server thinks it is correct, even though technically you shouldn't be able to move.
Darksun
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Again, examples:
-Use Signet of Mystic Speed while moving. -run into 1-2 enemies, and stuff. Just move, and have them move. You'll rubberband an assload due to how the engine handles this. |
DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by Darksun
I don't have these issues. It's not the engine, my connection is probably just better.
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Especially the first one.
It is impossible to not have the first one happen...because it isn't a network issue. The server has code saying SoMS doesn't have an aftercast, the client says it does. They conflict. The only way around this is to do a quick strafe just before activation, but if you walk straight, use SoMS, and keep holding forward, you will rubberband.
You can't really argue any of this because it is proven from the client/server infrastructure itself man. Ever since people figured all that stuff out, they figured out how rubberbanding and all that occurs. Bodyblocking or being even slightly bodyblocked is the biggest contributor to rubberbanding, but there are skill issues as well. Your internet connection means nothing here. You could be sitting right in the data center on fiber wire and still have these issues.
EDIT:
The SoMS thing is even confirmed on official wiki if you don't believe me.
aaje vhanli
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Originally Posted by the bourne hells
Where does it stated that GW2 is only WASD walking?
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| The control system is going to be significantly changed (in particular mouse movement in the form "click to move" will be removed from the game), however target locking will still function. Guild Wars 2 will introduce a Z-axis to the game which will allow characters to jump over obstacles. Actions which have characters interacting with the environment, such as sliding and swimming will also be introduced. |
Darksun
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Then you either a) did them wrong or b) are lying.
Especially the first one. It is impossible to not have the first one happen...because it isn't a network issue. The server has code saying SoMS doesn't have an aftercast, the client says it does. They conflict. The only way around this is to do a quick strafe just before activation, but if you walk straight, use SoMS, and keep holding forward, you will rubberband. You can't really argue any of this because it is proven from the client/server infrastructure itself man. Ever since people figured all that stuff out, they figured out how rubberbanding and all that occurs. Bodyblocking or being even slightly bodyblocked is the biggest contributor to rubberbanding, but there are skill issues as well. Your internet connection means nothing here. You could be sitting right in the data center on fiber wire and still have these issues. EDIT: The SoMS thing is even confirmed on official wiki if you don't believe me. |
DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by Darksun
I have not had significant rubberbanding from body blocking, or SoMS. You must have a different definition of rubberbanding. I am talking about moving, attacking, casting then snapping back something like 100 (in game) yards and not having those event even happen, or repeatedly getting snapped back to a location regardless of the action. Not snapping back 5 ft because of 1 skill in a specific situation. If that the big issue that ANET must attend to, then by all means fix it.
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They can't really fix it. They can fix SoMS obviously that's just an error on the client side of things (imo. It's a signet, sooo), but bodyblocking and such are so hard grained into the engine code that they would have to completely rewrite it to remove rubberbanding from it and that just isn't going to happen.
Darksun
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Rubberbanding in general is the snapping back. It doesn't matter how far it is, it is by definition the server and client being out of synch and the server updating your client to where it thinks you are.
They can't really fix it. They can fix SoMS obviously that's just an error on the client side of things (imo. It's a signet, sooo), but bodyblocking and such are so hard grained into the engine code that they would have to completely rewrite it to remove rubberbanding from it and that just isn't going to happen. |
DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by Darksun
As long as the information needs to get from 1 place to another (especially over distance), you cannot have perfect control over rubberbanding. Like I said, there is more contributing to rubberbanding in the trip over than the code. Rewriting the code is no guarantee it can be fixed, or even open the possibility that is can be fixed. Until we create subspace channels there has to be a point at which users of the software accept this or they will forever had unrealistic expectations. Even telephones & multi-million dollar media broadcasts have lag over distance, there is only so much code will make up for that. The "look, body blocking in an MMO isn't perfect, when are they gonna rewrite the game?!" mentality is a blueprint for perpetual disappointment.
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It isn't the information transfer rate either. The server does repeated checks with the client to make sure they are in synch, and it has to go through a series of checks to make sure that they are out of synch, which is possibly right (though it seems server takes precedence obviously), etc. This is minor stuff that isn't taxing at all on network connections and in these few cases you'd be put in synch roughly the same time as everyone else even if everyone else was lagging a bit more than you, on 56k, etc. The engine itself handles these few situations poorly, and is poorly written.
Darksun
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
It isn't network code >.<
It isn't the information either. The server does repeated checks with the client to make sure they are in synch, and it has to go through a series of checks to make sure that they are out of synch, which is possibly right (though it seems server takes precedence obviously), etc. This is minor stuff that isn't taxing at all on network connections and in these few cases you'd be put in synch roughly the same time as everyone else even if everyone else was lagging a bit more than you, on 56k, etc. The engine itself handles these few situations poorly, and is poorly written. |
DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by Darksun
When did I say it was network code? Your only looking at "these few situations" & I'm looking at rubberbanding as a whole (which is what people have to deal with & what they experience) If they perfectly fixed what you call poorly written client code, people would hardly notice because the majority of the rubberbanding that people have to deal with isn't the client stuff. Then we'd be back in this forum with someone asking ANET to fix the rubberbanding.
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imnotyourmother
so does this mean that I should be getting myself one of those fancy pants controllers for my computer. I really like clicking like mad and having the warnign pop up on my screen about clicking like mad when my toon just stands there and does not move.
Geeesh. I am not kidding either. There are lots of times that I click on a baddie to attack it and I just stand there getting the crud beat out of me..
Geeesh. I am not kidding either. There are lots of times that I click on a baddie to attack it and I just stand there getting the crud beat out of me..
DarkNecrid
Controllers have rubber banding too.
Moving towards monsters that are blocking you sux.
i hope they fix all these holes in gw2 (and they will d^^)
Moving towards monsters that are blocking you sux.
i hope they fix all these holes in gw2 (and they will d^^)