Using Ursan in a tactical way? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Stuart444

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

Alexandria, Scotland

The Charter Vanguard [CV]

W/

12 Jul 2008 at 08:50 - 1

I know this might get closed but we have so many ursan threads, I wasn't sure what to post it in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Recent Dev Update

One of the goals is to balance Ursan such that players can still use it as long as they do so in a tactical way.

What do you think this means anyway? personally I hope it stops people rushing in like mad (as in rushing in = death like it would with most professions....except perhaps ele terra tanks >_> )

I am quite interested to see what they mean by using it in a tactical way at least.

Icy The Mage

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Canada

E/

12 Jul 2008 at 08:58 - 2

As in, we'll no longer have groups of 6 co-operative bears with a 2 monk healing backline;
Instead, we'll have a group of 2 bears, accompanied by 2 ravens, 2 friendly wolves, and a 2 monk healing back line.

Pumpkin man

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

New York

Blue Screen Of Death [BSoD]

N/

12 Jul 2008 at 08:59 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart444

I know this might get closed but we have so many ursan threads, I wasn't sure what to post it in.

What do you think this means anyway? personally I hope it stops people rushing in like mad (as in rushing in = death like it would with most professions....except perhaps ele terra tanks >_> )

I am quite interested to see what they mean by using it in a tactical way at least.

Time limit maybe?
Wtb Avatar of Bear

Alexandra-Sweet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2006

That one place with the trees, mountains and snow

Ember Power Mercenaries [EMP]

Me/

12 Jul 2008 at 09:05 - 4

I really hope they will buff the other blessings, BUT there will always be one stronger then the other.

Stuart444

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

Alexandria, Scotland

The Charter Vanguard [CV]

W/

12 Jul 2008 at 09:09 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet

I really hope they will buff the other blessings, BUT there will always be one stronger then the other.

if they buffed the other blessings, people might look for them more

Personally it would be nice if they 1) buffed the other blessings and 2) put a time limit on ursan because then people rushing to fight would be useless since its based on time limit, not on energy <_< and unlike the Avatar forms, there is nothing to keep it up indeffinitely

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

12 Jul 2008 at 09:12 - 6

This sounds good.

Hopefully it'll be something along the lines of: "Smart usage of this skill equals strong usage of this skill."

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

12 Jul 2008 at 09:18 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpkin man

Time limit maybe?

That's the first thing I thought of also. Something like 10ish secs only.

But the problem is that a change like that doesn't make it more tactical per se - it mostly just kills it for non-frontline characters.

Monk Gsb

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

England

Mo/Me

12 Jul 2008 at 09:24 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart444

I know this might get closed but we have so many ursan threads, I wasn't sure what to post it in.

What do you think this means anyway? personally I hope it stops people rushing in like mad (as in rushing in = death like it would with most professions....except perhaps ele terra tanks >_> )

I am quite interested to see what they mean by using it in a tactical way at least.

i dont care cause i have given up on pve, but your avatar is a living god. :P

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

12 Jul 2008 at 09:24 - 9

^
^
Agreed. I just don't understand how they're going to make it less of a "Smash-your-head-on-your-keyboard-fet" and a "Make good use of it" kind of skill.

OT: And Gsb, Ian Watkins is a living god for me, David Tenant (or whoever plays Doctor Who) is BAED!

Stuart444

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

Alexandria, Scotland

The Charter Vanguard [CV]

W/

12 Jul 2008 at 09:27 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

^
^
Agreed. I just don't understand how they're going to make it less of a "Smash-your-head-on-your-keyboard-fet" and a "Make good use of it" kind of skill.

OT: And Gsb, Ian Watkins is a living god for me, David Tenant (or whoever plays Doctor Who) is BAED!

well we can't exactly accuse them of not trying at least >_>

(David Tenant FTW >_> )

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

12 Jul 2008 at 10:25 - 11

lol this topic made me laugh, use ursan in tactical way wtf

Shikaru

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/

12 Jul 2008 at 10:26 - 12

1) Make Ursan (and maybe the others with some buffs) blessing take up 6 slots (or however many bear skills there are) instead of 1.

2) Remove armor bonus and instead set user's armor rating to a flat rate of 100(or some number) at r10.

3) Make the attack skill do slashing damage instead of armor ignoring damage.

4) Reduce or remove HP bonus.

5) Ursan Roar either causes weakness or damage bonus. Not both.

6) Ursan Roar becomes a party wide enchantment like OoP. Ursans do not receive benefits of enchantments or some penalty is incurred while enchanted (such as Ursan Strike costs 5 energy to use or something)

7) People under blessings can no longer hear shouts, chants and echoes.

A combination of a few nerfs on this list should do it. The reason ursan is so powerful is because its very hard to shut down, can deal a lot of damage and can also survive under ridiculous amounts of damage. Picking a few (but not all since that would make Ursan pretty useless) of these depending on which aspect you wanted to nerf would balance things out.

Either cut its survival power or cut the damage potential.

Also another way to increase its tactical use would be to give every mob in the game a monk with spirit bond. That would definitely separate out the newb Ursans from the ones that know how to watch for protted targets and switch. <_<

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

12 Jul 2008 at 10:52 - 13

Hm...

For example, one knocks down, and the other deals damage to the knocked down people.

And there are also many other options, like require it to be used along with with the other two blessings.
Ursan knocks down, and add weakness, Raven blinds the weakened, Wolven cripples the knocked down, Ursan deals damage to the blinded, Raven deals damage to the crippled, Wolven deals damage to the weakened, and so on.

kostolomac

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

Serbia

Me/

12 Jul 2008 at 10:54 - 14

There is no way to make ursan tactical , nearly every build for farming elite areas is simply button mash . I'm interested to see how they hope to make a tactical team farming build.

Shanaeri Rynale

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

DVDF(Forums)

Me/N

12 Jul 2008 at 10:59 - 15

Limit the number of blessings etc than can be in a team, say limit it to two per team. UB with then be another tanking skill(although I use the term loosely).

RiKio

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

Plato's Cave

W/E

12 Jul 2008 at 12:49 - 16

Ursan in a tactical way......

Joe: Ok, Ursan Strike on Margonite Aunr Kai in 3..2...1.. great, done, now time to spike the monk.

Mac: Damm, they are en-denialing me.
Joe: K, Bob, go and pressure the enemy Margonite Mesmer
Bob: Right.

I know it is a dream...

okashii

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

E/

12 Jul 2008 at 13:05 - 17

I used ursan in a tactical way at least twice :

1. I used it on my E/Rt build to farm myself a Rajazan's Fervor

2. I used Ursan when I was doing Kathandrax dungeon over and over to get the emerald blade [I used it to run to the dungeon from Doomlore skipping the whole buring forest and half of lvl2 of the dungeon]

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

12 Jul 2008 at 13:07 - 18

Ursan how it should be:
You take on the aspect of the bear. Your Energy returns to maximum and you have -2 Energy degeneration. You have +10...20 armor and +100...200 maximum Health. All enchantments upon you are removed.While under the effects of Ursan Blessing you deal +10...100% more damage. You gain Energy every time you take or deal damage. This skill ends when your Energy drops to 0.

How it will become:
Ursan Strike: You deal 20...35 damage to target touched foe twice. Deals double damage if you hit a foe and not a building.

Ursan Rage: You deal 30...65 physical damage to all adjacent enemies. Struck foes are also knocked down for 2 seconds if you hit a foe with this skill.

Ursan Roar: For 2...5 seconds, all enemies within earshot are Weakened and all allies deal +5..15 damage per attack if you weakened a foe.

Ursan Force: For 8..14 seconds, you move 20..33% faster and can break through wooden & steel barricades if you use it when you don't already have an IMS.

Totem of Man: You lose all Energy. Your aspect and skills return to normal. You gain all your energy if you use this outside of battle.

pro...vry tacticile....

romeus petrus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Urgoz Warren

Legion of Doom [LOD] Home of PWNZILLA http://PWNZILLA.guildlaunch.com

12 Jul 2008 at 13:09 - 19

My guess is that they will adjust it in such a way that makes most teams require more than just UBs and monks. Prolly something like reduced armor bonus for example. Mind you, that would make it much harder for UBs from low AL professions to get into groups, which kinda beats the purpose of UB that Anet have frequently stated in the past.

chfanfiction

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2008

Gnawing at your soul

Passionate Kiss of Elysium

R/Rt

12 Jul 2008 at 13:15 - 20

What if they made Ursan have a set armor level for all classes? Would that add some form oof tactics?

romeus petrus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Urgoz Warren

Legion of Doom [LOD] Home of PWNZILLA http://PWNZILLA.guildlaunch.com

12 Jul 2008 at 13:25 - 21

The thing is UB is a PvE only Elite skill, not a whole lot of those in the game. So you kinda expect it to be overpowered. I think some kinda buff for the other belssings to make them more popular in certain situations might put an end to "GLF 5 Ursans and 2 monks".

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

12 Jul 2008 at 13:31 - 22

There is already a good example of the tactical use of Ursan Blessing, namely Blood Washes Blood.

They can run with it, add some other explosive effects to Ursan Force (eg. knock down barriers, breakable pillars and adjacent targets while moving), reduce its duration so it can't be kept up permanently, remove knockdown from Ursan Rage, and presto -- tactical Ursan.

R.Shayne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

12 Jul 2008 at 13:43 - 23

If the nerf is as affective as some other nerfs have been in the pass those that do not like Ursan Blessing may have an even bigger problem.

Quote:

Another goal is to alter the grind currently associated with many PvE-only skills.

Sounds like the number of R10 Ursan in elite areas is about to go up to me.

romeus petrus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Urgoz Warren

Legion of Doom [LOD] Home of PWNZILLA http://PWNZILLA.guildlaunch.com

12 Jul 2008 at 13:47 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

Sounds like the number of R10 Ursan in elite areas is about to go up to me.

I am guessing they will make the effectiveness of PvE skills in general not as dependant on grinding. [ursan blessing] and [save yourselves] maybe the obvious examples. This way you wouldnt really care what rank norn or kurzik your ursan or imbagon is.

englitdaudelin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

East Coast

Soldier's Union [SU]

N/Me

12 Jul 2008 at 13:50 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

My guess is that they will adjust it in such a way that makes most teams require more than just UBs and monks. Prolly something like reduced armor bonus for example. Mind you, that would make it much harder for UBs from low AL professions to get into groups, which kinda beats the purpose of UB that Anet have frequently stated in the past.

I feel like this gets at the problem ANet might have in hitting Ursan hard with the nerf bat. There used to be all kinds of sadness about classes being excluded from higher-end areas, as they couldn't fit a certain role. Well, ANet responded to that whining: you play a mesmer? Can't get into DoA groups? Become a bear, then, and you too can experience the monochromatic landscape of DoA! .

So, in a way, some population of GW kinda asked for Ursan. And if the above scenario is the case, then ANet's heart was kind of in the right place--the mind, the execution, however.....

I have no idea what "tactical" usage might be. I was intrigued when I read those updates, and just as puzzled as the OP. My best guess...Skills may become "conditional," instead of straight-up mashing... By that, I mean, they'll need to be used in a certain order, or in conjunction with the other blessings somehow, to achieve the greatest effect. Mithran's suggestion--needing to combine the conditions that all the blessings bring--might work in an interesting way.

Maybe skills would be disabled if no healer was within earshot? (At least no Ursan Leeroys, then!!!).

Unfortunately, I have no idea. The likely nerf will be increasing recharge time of skills or disabling them for a few extra seconds....then, the phrase "tactical use" will mean "coordinating your party so that skills are used in an order, instead of all at once." It would be fabulous if THIS was tied to number of Ursans in party--i.e. have one Ursan? No disabled time. 6 ursans? 20-second disable.

Any way, I'm curious, and a little excited. Might get some peeps back to experimenting with builds.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jul 2008 at 13:54 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

Limit the number of blessings etc than can be in a team, say limit it to two per team. UB with then be another tanking skill(although I use the term loosely).

"I wanna be an Ursan!"
"Nuh-uh, I was here first!"

kostolomac

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

Serbia

Me/

12 Jul 2008 at 14:39 - 27

Giving a 1-2 sec longer recharge to all damage skills , more conditional damage to the skills , enabling e-degeneration beyond -2 while disabling anything more than -2 degen and give a chance to the mobs to drain them of energy. Limit the energy gained from taking damage will make ursan harder to maintain too. Removing all effects (positive and negative) and giving equal health and armor to all classes (650hp and 90armor for example) will put all professions on equal grounds.
I don't really care about ursan anymore , but I'm interested what will A.net do about it.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jul 2008 at 14:44 - 28

Unless you nerf [skill]Signet of stamina[/skill], the professions will never be on "equal ground".

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

12 Jul 2008 at 15:08 - 29

Hrrmn...

Well, the first thing I'd do is, since they make your own skillbar redundant, is make it so that everyone really is equal under Ursan. Everyone has the same armour, health, and Energy under Ursan, has a common basic attack, and all attributes are reduced to 0.

Second, to promote more tactical use: Make it so that it's harder to keep up permanently or near-permanently. The one for Blood Washes Blood should be left unchanged (might be frustrating for solo players otherwise) but for the actual skill, I'd probably consider the following changes:

1) If you ever haven't inflicted or received damage for enough time to lose adrenaline, you drop out of bear form regardless of remaining energy.

2) On returning to human form, Ursan Blessing is disabled for a not inconsiderable length of time - say, 3 minutes.

The idea is to make it something you save for emergencies or particularly tough battles, not something you use all the time. 'Course, people might still just wait out the time, but that should have a similar effect to the SF nerf - slows them down and makes the run less efficient in general.

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

12 Jul 2008 at 16:00 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Unless you nerf [skill]Signet of stamina[/skill], the professions will never be on "equal ground".

That is such a stupid thing to use. You basically take away all your auto attack damage and energy, which is a decent amount under Ursan Roar. And why do you need all that health? You should already have around 850 health from Ursan Blessing. 950 with a Grail of Might. Do you really need 1150 health???

Anyway,
Ursan Blessing
Put Ursan Strike at a 20s recharge.
Add an effect: If target struck foe dies within 2 seconds, all of your skills instantly recharge.

Put Ursan Rage at 30s recharge and make it:
All foes in the area are struck for 10...100 damage and knocked down for 4 seconds.

Make Ursan Roar: for 5...10 seconds, you deal 33% more damage with attacks. Foes struck by your attacks are weakened for 5 seconds.

Raven Blessing
Raven Swoop: put it at 20s recharge
If this skill hits a knocked down foe, all foes in the area take 10...100 damage and are dazed and, this skill and recharges 75% faster.

Raven Talons: make it ranged
If target foe is suffering from 4 or more conditions, that foe takes 10...100 damage and is knocked down. Otherwise, that foe suffers from bleeding and crippled for 10 seconds.

Volfen Blessing
Volfen Claw: 20s recharge
Add effect:
Add an effect: If target struck foe dies within 2 seconds, all of your skills instantly recharge.

Volfen Pounce: make it knockdown, up recharge to 20.

This should hopefully encourage people to actually coordinate instead of button mashing. Of course the numbers probably aren't perfect.

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

12 Jul 2008 at 16:00 - 31

Maybe limit the number of people who can use the blessing at one time in a party. Say instead of using ursan in groups of 6 to simply decimate mobs you would have 1-2 ursans who's job is to kd foes, deal high ammounts of damage to high armor foes, spread weakness while buffing the party's physical damage.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

12 Jul 2008 at 16:04 - 32

One or another way, result should be hilarious.

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

12 Jul 2008 at 16:07 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molock

Maybe limit the number of people who can use the blessing at one time in a party. Say instead of using ursan in groups of 6 to simply decimate mobs you would have 1-2 ursans who's job is to kd foes, deal high ammounts of damage to high armor foes, spread weakness while buffing the party's physical damage.

That wouldn't work because a lot of people would want to be the Ursan.

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

12 Jul 2008 at 16:11 - 34

Yup.

It would also limit the skill to tanks.

Still pretty "insta-win" if they know anything about holding aggro.

Ursan and tactical in the same sentence made me giggle.

bigtime102

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

12 Jul 2008 at 16:16 - 35

A better way would be to make the whole game soloable then no one will be discriminated against and cheat codes wont be needed to overcome discrimination. A way to do that is get rid of ursan and bring in 7 heroes. But as long as you have teams youll always have discrimination no matter what you do, only way to fix that is get rid of teams or allow for teams that dont discriminate - HEROS.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jul 2008 at 16:17 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

That is such a stupid thing to use. You basically take away all your auto attack damage and energy, which is a decent amount under Ursan Roar. And why do you need all that health? You should already have around 850 health from Ursan Blessing. 950 with a Grail of Might. Do you really need 1150 health???

Without auto-attacking, Ursan is still maintainable thanks to the skills. If it starts to look iffy, as in you're about to lose the blessing. just auto-attack. Your build and effectiveness isn't compromised.

In regards to "do you really need 1150 health": As much as you "need" to be R10 Norn. So yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtime102

A better way would be to make the whole game soloable then no one will be discriminated against and cheat codes wont be needed to overcome discrimination. A way to do that is get rid of ursan and bring in 7 heroes. But as long as you have teams youll have discrimination no matter what you do, only way to fix that is get rid of teams or get teams that dont discriminate - HEROS.

You need to be a good player in order to make the best use out of heroes.

But that aside, this is pretty much why GW2 will be soloable.

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

12 Jul 2008 at 16:21 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

That wouldn't work because a lot of people would want to be the Ursan.

So? You decide one the person/people who will be the ursans and the others have their own builds. Using Ursan is not more fun to use than any other build, in fact I find it quite boring (I only used it during the norn farm though).

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jul 2008 at 16:25 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molock

So? You decide one the person/people who will be the ursans and the others have their own builds. Using Ursan is not more fun to use than any other build, in fact I find it quite boring (I only used it during the norn farm though).

How it's determined would have to be one a first-come-first-serve basis. In which case people would have more of a reason to favor warriors for being the Bears.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

12 Jul 2008 at 16:43 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

How it's determined would have to be one a first-come-first-serve basis. In which case people would have more of a reason to favor warriors for being the Bears.

Or it wont have to be determined at all.

If you limit ursan, it is safe to expect people to fallback to tank-n-spank as they would be unable to continue in fast'n'furious gameplay without actuall skill and knowledge. (And if that have that skill and knowledge ... well, ursan can't be buffed to heavens like physicals...)

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

12 Jul 2008 at 16:47 - 40

Agreed.

I can't see that scenario changing anything but the addition of a monk or two and possibly better awareness of tank/aggro priority.

Best way to handle it is still a nerf to the actual skill imo.