Gaming Ethics & Etiquette

Guru has seen a few threads on problems like scamming, duping, etc., so I'd like to try and bring those problems all under one umbrella: the issue of ethics and etiquette in gaming.

I know you have all seen a massive range of playstyles and how players treat each other. I personally feel like there is usually a correlation between RL personality (even on the subconscious level) and in-game personality. I think that people who act like 12 year old twats in game probably are griefers in RL, too. I also think people who take their time to selflessly help others are the type of people that would do that for someone in RL.

As for ethics and etiquette - I have a few questions/scenarios to give you a visual of what I'm getting at. You don't need to fit it out - it isn't a questionnaire... just examples of things to consider.

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
- Do some players "just have it coming?"
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?

I know these are a lot of questions - but these are just topics of discussion that fall under the ethics/etiquette umbrella. The reason I made this thread is because I sometimes feel like people are just unbelievable. I'd have to say that a LOT of the lack of maturity and moral standing comes from the younger players, though (sorry for the stereotype, but it is kinda true...). There are also a large number of people who are old enough that should know better, but are just as undesirable, too. It just baffles me how selfish, arrogant, rude, malicious or snake-like some people are.

So what do we "owe" to the other people in this game? What immature or asshole-ish things grind your nerves that other people do?

Do you feel responsible to others to uphold ethics and etiquette in game?

^^ does the above means you want to make other players be ethical?

Okay, thanks Illfated Fat, just need to make it clear before I can actually click the poll.
Yes, I've always been ethical in the game (hopefully). Don't see any need to be otherwise.

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
Never

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Never - both are taking advantage of

- Do some players "just have it coming?"
No- not even when they are being a (insert insult here) becasue then you become them.

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
Owe No, but to yourself, do you want to be label as someone whose rude?

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
unacceptable and immature

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
Definitely NOT acceptable and UNFAIR

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
never, in fact, I seldom use the chat function. I usually have local, and trade chat off and are most certainly offline forever.

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?

I usually take run that has a set price, less confusing, in the sense that I don't have lots of gold to tip, and I also do not want to under tip or over tip anyone.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
Never

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
Never

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
Yes, i think, but the occassion to say please and thank you is so rare. I say GG when its really a GG, not just GG after all game. (for instant, when its obvious all the inexperience Luxon/kurziks are out fighting and your side is like the wild fire burning, that is not a GG game, just getting lucky, and if you fight to the death, in a fun civil manner. then definitely

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
No, never done it either. But I do on rare occasions will shout of some fun encouraging war cry in AB :P~

I think the problem is that because it's not face-to-face, people feel free to be as rude as they want; saying things and acting like thay wouldn't even think about doing in RL.

Anyway, I try to be nice in general, though if someone really pisses me off then I won't hesitate to fire away. Of course, that doesn't happen often. I'll bite back a bit in places full of idiots (RA), but normally I'll just ignore it. I find that smartass answers will sometimes make idiots shut up, sometimes it doesn't. Meh.

No, it means this:

Do you feel like you should act in a "good" way to other people. Is it your duty as an "ethical" human being to do so? Hope that clears it up.

Yeah, people say alot more if they know they are never gonna see that person.
You notice that immediately in for example a guild with people who know eachother in real life aswell.

Also, I do try to nice, and I think most people do, it's just that in gaming/chatting things can easily be blown out of proportion. You say something like "..." and people will feel attacked and retaliate, like Marty said: I" try to be nice but if someone pisses me off I won't hesitate to fire away". I think that that, combined with being anonymous and the fact that you are easily misunderstood over chatchannels (people tend to think the worst), makes the internet/online games such a 'happy' place.

(No offense Marty, it was just an example)

Seriously, the ignorance of people in-game and even on this forum is annoying. People who think they know everything or stand by what they say. When they correct someone, they shove an insult in there to make their ego enlarge. People hate GWG because of the fact that most of you people are assholes to others asking simple questions or suggestions. It's ridiculous. Even I have caught myself doing so.


Here are my honest answers to your questions. Flame me if you want people, it seems to be in your blood.

I know I'm just one player, but I get wrapped up in things as well. Generally, I defend others who are being made fun of, rather than being the one going "Pwned, noob." on the playing field. It's a game, not a way of life. Others view it too seriously (HA players) and makes the game less fun. I haven't even ranked my Hero past rank 2 because the players I have to deal with are like a pack of children. If you screw up once, you amount to the pile of dog crap they've stepped in, and now they're desperately trying to wipe and wash you off with a water hose and the grass of someone else's lawn.

Just my thoughts.

I start out nice, but have little patients. Although i rarely badmouth, i just try to make the other ragequit

All depends on the other person, mutual respect ect.

mzzls

I value a lot of those things very highly. I'll always try to be kind and helpfull to people, altho I don't always succeed in this.(bad days happen to everyone I guess)

The problem with anything to do with ethics and etiquette in an online environment is the GIFT. (Greater Internet F-wad Theory).

Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total F-Wad

My answers are as follows:

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?

Never. My moral compass simply wont allow me to do so.

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).

Scamming would require a scam. Buying something that is being offered cheap is not a scam. It's frugal.

Some people (myself) would rather sell something quickly and get on with playing the game instead of sitting on their ass in a town spamming a for sale message trying to squeeze every last drop of gold they can get. The buyer gets a good deal and can make a profit and I made my money and go on with other things.

- Do some players "just have it coming?"

That's like asking if a rape victim "had it coming". Ridiculous.

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?

Respect is earned. Courtesy is a whole other matter. Common decency should be the norm but the GIFT screws that up all the time.

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?

Depends on context. If some random person does the smacktalking you will take it in a whole different perspective than if it was a friend or a guildmate who said the same thing.

Text does not carry inflection. This can cause more miscommunication because "You got owned!" typed by a friend carries a much nicer message than "lol u got pwned!" sent by some random stranger.

I would err on the side of civility. Good game.

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)

Of course not. They are direct violations of the EULA. The "Rules" of the game. It isn't acceptable to hide an ace up your sleeve when playing poker either...

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)

No. Trade goes in trade chat. That's what it is for. Once every few minutes is enough. I frequently simply use party search and the single chat message that is sent from there.

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?

Tipping is a loaded question. I will simply say that since I am in a profession that lives on the tips they receive, I tip well.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?

Due to the GIFT I tend to avoid this situation all-together. The only people I play the game with are friends or NPC's. I communicate with my friends and Alesia doesn't care either way.

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?

Again avoided simply by playing the game and doing so with friends/NPC's.

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?

Redundant question. Courtesy should be the norm.

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?

Another redundant question.

Do I feel responsible to others to uphold ethics and etiquette in game? Absolutely not.

Ethics:

- No.

- Yes, there is, imo. Scamming is offering something for someone, and giving them cheaper. If I go to buy something for 100k + 10 ecto and I give him 100g + 10 ecto, it's scamming. If someone is selling something worth 100k + 10 ecto for 50k, it's taking advantage of ignorance.

- Yes. Players who drop an item in an instance because some random person came up to them and said they wanted to "try something", they had it coming. Rule #1 of the internet: Don't trust anyone.

- Respect is earned, etc etc.

- Meh, it's the internet. If people want to randomly be a douche, I could care less.

- Buying gold isn't getting ahead of people in Guild Wars, because gear means nothing. If gear did matter, like in WoW, I would say it's not fair. I personally don't see the problem with afk-macroing drunkard. Who in their right mind want to spend a total of almost a week to get a meaningless title?

Etiquette:

- If I have to compete with others, yes. If no one is talking, no.

- I'll always say thanks, and I'll give a tip (that is, if I did do those kind of runs).

- If the group is terribad beyond belief, yes. If they're just bad, I'll say they're bad and I'll leave. I play Guild Wars for fun, and playing with bad people isn't fun.

- No.

- Yes.

- Depends. If I'm ABing and winning, I'm going to be a complete ass and indirectly insult Luxons. If I'm RAing and someone starts trash talking me, I'll trash talk back. If a team plays a good match and are respectful, I'll leave it at gg.

This is an opinion of someone who doesn't like stupid/ignorant people, and has no feelings on the internet.

Honestly, nothing. It's the internet. I could get angry with immature assholes, but what's the point when the internet is full of them?

HA is fun and competitive sometimes, but if you cant take constructive criticism or harsh insults then its not the place for you


Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?

yep...

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).

yes

- Do some players "just have it coming?"

definitely especially the ones who give there acc info

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?

well it happens in all games cant say, sometimes its immature and unacceptable

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)

maybe do it once to grab attention so, no


- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?

maybe, depends if the run was fast

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?

usually "gtg" *crosses out* , i said something so yes

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?

never leeched b4

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?

sometimes

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?

its neccessary to some people or for the fun of it sometimes...it only gets imature when they bag your mums

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?

No. I never felt it worth it, either, though power traders appear to do it often. Which is fine by me.

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).

See above.

- Do some players "just have it coming?"

Not sure what you mean.

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?

Respect should be earned, not given.

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?

Belittling others is not the spirit of Guild Wars; however it seems to get done anyways.

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)

Buying gold is bad; macros for drinking, well, since the titles are here, might as well, eh?

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)

No. In Kamadan D1 the text wall would pass it over anyways. I put my message in party search and wait for takers.

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?

Tips means no actual obligation to pay, so no, I wouldn't, if they were collecting tips after the run. Exception for friends running; I'll pay them the amount of a regular run.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?

Sure I do. Got this thing called real life, and got an even more important thing called The Internet. Those are more important than Guild Wars PUGs.

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?

Leeching in PvP is pointless since it leads to loss anyways, leeching in PvE is pointless since it wouldn't really gain anything (when someone leaches in my group, I lol at them and leave).

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?

Sometimes I use GG as an insult once I've completely destroyed someone's argument. For example, someone says "7 heroes would be overpowered" (even though it hasn't even been seen ingame). I reply with, "Ursan Blessing, GG."

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?

Trash talking is unnecessary, immature, and constantly used by PUGs, which is why I play H/H and want the hero cap removed.

Yes.I usually behave the same way I would in public and I never do any cursing in game like some others do.I would say that other should show respect to others as online gameing is sort of being out in public.

This goes pretty deep into ethics and morale but I'd tend to say that words like 'should' and 'duty' are potentially misguided in this context. A good deed may always have the same outward appearance but there is a huge difference between various motives that triggered it, from a psychopath manipulating his victims, to somebody doing it out of a sense of duty, to somebody for whom it is the only conceivable course of action and the happiness derived from the action its greatest reward.

A person who in real life is 'nice' out of duty towards other people is less likely to feel that duty in an anonymous context, leading to this well known theory.

A person who is genuinely nice will be just as nice in a game because that is her/his natural state of being.

there ya go, all filled in

I am a normal person, nobody knows me ingame so there is anonymity and audience is there too in the european districts, and I am still normal.

I think it should be:

F-Wad + Anonymity + Audience = Extreme F-Wad

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
IMO no.

-Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Hmm... I'll admit I'd be tempted to buy the item for cheap, but usually my good side comes over and tells the guy the real price. Esle I'd feel like a scammer and I hate scammers. >_>

- Do some players "just have it coming?"
Depends for what... whoever's acting like an ass WILL have people acting like an ass towards them. Then they complain.

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
Kind of, it works both ways. Respect others and they'll respect you. If you don't respect anyone, then complain people aren't respecting you, you have a problem.

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
Immature.

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
I'm not for these methods, really. However, they get me good laughs, especially the gold buying, because if they brag on how good they are at the game, then you team up with them and they suck... you have any other option to laugh? Ok maybe another guy does, but I just laugh.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
Spammers annoy me, why in hell am I going to spam? I send my trade messages usually as they aren't visible on my chat screen anymore, or more crowded areas like Kamadan, every 30 seconds or so. IMO it's decent for all the trade chat going on.

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
If someone runs for tips, in general I'll give the full price.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
Never.

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
I didn't learn this game by leeching, so no. I hate leechers. (The only times I leech are when friends ask me to leech off them, and it happens!)

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
I'll be honest and say I don't use "please" a lot, although it depends of the circumstances. I always thank others though.

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
Immature. However, I'll admit that feeding trolls is my guilty pleasure. Someone will come and insult me, I'll egg him on or show that I don't care too much; usually fires up the other guy who keeps on going and going. They're fun to mess with, I'll be honest... but I turn them to my advantage. It's really entertaining to me.

It's only a game. And immature behaviour is part of all games. That is inevitable. Even professional soccer players roll screaming over the ground when they are slightly touched by an opponent, hoping the referee will give the opponent a yellow or even a red card. Don't expect people to behave well when you are playing a game. Or take the consequence and play only in a protected environment, with friends.

Since I recognize and accept this part of online gaming, I avoid situations where others may be brought into temptation to abuse the situation. Mostly. That is why I always try to encourage devs to make it so that players can complete the game individually. Joining a (pug)party is a potential risk: players may leave prematurely, begin to yell when it takes too long, take a differend road to do a sitequest for themselves... Whatever. And of course I don't play PvP...

This is not a problem. Just go your own way. And take it as a guy when someone tries to scam you in a trade or whatever.

As for the poll: no opinion given. I don't care very much.

name and shame i say if sites like guru and wiki posted the names of these scammers it would help
after all any comunity is ment to look after its weakest members

While I would love to say I always stick to the high road and have been a perfect model of ethical purity its simply not the case.

While I have never actively gone out of my way to scam anyone I have on ocasion taken advantage of poorly informed players when it comes to selling/buying item in game.

I am not talking about selling a crafting item for the cost of an abrace, but I have made some deals that were very good to me, and to be fair probably a few that were very good to the other person.

I once saw a person selling a Max Crystaline Purple R12 in ascalon, he wanted 5K for it, so I bought it at that price even though I knew at that time it was worth 50-75K (I later sold it for 70K)

When GWEN came out(the preview) I sold a max Highlander Blade Gold R13 for close to 30K to a player that was dazled by the gold/max/skin and didnt notice the requirment till after the sale was complete.(I had mentioned the r13 in my WTS post but he must not have read it)

Anyone that claims to have perfect ethics/etiquette is most likely either lying or spends 90% of the time playing with H/H.

Can anyone really claim to have never posted a WTS with no fixed price waiting for someone to make a offer that was a little to high? Or pmed an offer that was a little to low for an item they were after?

I think ass-kissing, or a deep, profound admiration should be earned, but respect? I try to show respect to people unless they prove they don't deserve it, at which point I wouldn't say I disrespect them either (unless they've really earned it). I'm not talking about putting people on a pedestal in your mind when you meet them. I'm referring specifically to how you behave with people.

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?

Scam? No.
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Yes and no. If a commodity is on the market for a low price, I'll buy it. I'll assume that someone is trying to move it quickly or doesn't really care for the commodity and would rather be rid of it than wait for a high buyer. I also won't misrepresent anything to an unknowing player. Moreover, if they really cared to maximize value, they would research it. If I'm asked what I think the price should be, I'll tell them and explain why. A scam in my opinion involves someone arguing that an item is worth more or less than someone lists while knowing that the justification is false. In short: I'll buy the cheap minipet off the newbie, but I won't lie about what it's worth or anything like that. On the other hand, if the player is clearly immature and very concerned but unsure of the proper price for the commodity, I won't just buy it off them at a bargain.
- Do some players "just have it coming?"
No.
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
Yes.
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
Comical. I like to laugh at people like that.
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
I have nothing against them myself except where they interfere with the game environment. I don't use any such programs myself.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat?
Not unless everyone else is. See the current Z key mess at the Temple.
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
I don't take runs. Defeats the point.
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
Not unless they're being rude or insulting. Sometimes not even then. And i would certainly say something.
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
No.
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
Yes, all of the above.
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
See: comical.

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
No, I've hated it when its happened to me and I try to only do to others as I would want to have done to myself. Not always possible mind you
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Yes, a big one.
- Do some players "just have it coming?"
If you step on enough tails then you will get bitten. So yes
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
Yup, we share a communal space in the game.
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
Acceptable? Depends on context. To people I know yes because they will know that it is a joke. To randoms, never. Immature? Very
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
No.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
No.
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
Haven't been in this situation for over a year (I tend to take the "if others can do it so can I" stance), but last time I did I paid full price. When I've run others "for tips", I've had stuff ranging from nothing to a shard for Ascalon -> Yaks when they were about 4k each.
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
I don't leave until I have to, and never without saying anything.
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
Not if I can help it, sometimes rl happens
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
Almost all the time.
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
Its immature but fun to an extent, and a byproduct of a competative game.

So what do we "owe" to the other people in this game? What immature or asshole-ish things grind your nerves that other people do?
Respect that there are other real people in the game who don't always see things the same way you do. As for the annoying stuff, I'd say people who have already decided that since I'm a long time player, I have everything in the game and that I should give it all to them because they're new/I owe them in some way. Also leavers, leechers and flamers in RA. Not everyone is good at everything.

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?

No.

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Yes, there is.

- Do some players "just have it coming?"
I don't think you can "just have it coming" when it comes to things like trading. In game and in missions, yes - if you keep leeroying and trash-talking when playing, you can bet nobody's going to like that - and if they leave, you had it coming.

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
Basic respect, yes.

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
Only if they're my friends and know I'm joking. Random players are so potentially volatile, so I never try that with them.

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
No.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
No, no, and no. :P

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?

I seldom get run, so I haven't been in that situation for quite a while (I paid full price for my CoF run though.)

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?

I leave only when I get thoroughly annoyed, and that's usually not without warning, because it tends to come alongside me getting snippy and shouting things like 'can't you guys PULL with a LONGBOW ffs?!'

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
Nope.

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
Thank you yes, gg only when it really is gg.

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
Immature and unbelievably so last time. Not necessary, but unfortunately unavoidable, because it's the 'net and there's always going to be the crowd that thinks trash talking is a fantastic way of showing off how leet they are.

So what do we "owe" to the other people in this game? What immature or asshole-ish things grind your nerves that other people do?
Basic respect. If you don't like something that someone says at first, tell them nicely, not flare up in local chat. And the one thing that really gets on my nerves is begging. It'd probably take you less time to go GET that 100g yourself than to sit in Ascalon/Kaineng waiting for some (increasingly less) kind soul to give it to you.

That's the exact type of arrogance that turns me away from that sort of thing. HA is for the stout and the stern. In reality, HA is for asses who take losing almost like a gun shot to the chest.

I also love how Zahr's post has a lot of links to his newly defended thread.

- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
No.

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Yes.

- Do some players "just have it coming?"
Yes.

- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
Everyone, always. The amount of respect can vary on how much respect they actually earn.

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
For no reason, no. If you can tell that someone is lacking in something, there should be nothing wrong with pointing it out.

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
No. Exploiting game mechanics is fine, but there's a fine line between "exploitation" and "hacking".

- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
No.

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
I tip what I feel is comfortable, which is how I expect people asking for tips to take it. If they wanted people to pay so much, they'd ask for a fee like most other people. If I don't feel like tipping, I probably won't take the run.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
I've usually voiced my opinions on why I'd leave, or it would be blatantly obvious first (I.e. runner leaves in middle of a run).

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
I go AFK for a little while in each if I need to, but I let my team know when I leave and when I get back, and I push myself to get back as fast as I can.

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
Can't remember the last time I've said "please". I give thanks after transactions, runs, etc. Most times I've said "GG" or the like is in a trash-talking sense, because I already feel like "GG" is an insult rather than good sportsmanship.

- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
Necessary, no. Immature, possibly. There are finer details as to when and where you should trash-talk.

I've generally gotten more comments about having rude behavior rather than pleasing. I follow my own sense of what's right in the game, but that doesn't necessarily line up with many other people's ideas of how we should all treat each other.

I think its a shame we even have to talk about this. Most people on the game are decent people, trying to have fun and relax. Then you throw some 12 year old on a sugar high and power trip into the mix and the whole game, chat and all goes into the trash because they want to flame or spam or just be a general a$$hole. Even though we are "anonymous" and "virtual" we should still treat others with respect...as we expect to be treated. As for the scamming, trash talking, begging and the cheating, I think that should go without saying that both of these actions are NEVER ok or acceptable. Do we "owe" anyone in the game anything? No, but let's remember were all humans, we all have manners and brains, lets use them.

- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
No.
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Yes.
- Do some players "just have it coming?"
Yes, to a point. Ganking a lame/irritating player out of Halls repeatedly is one thing, hacking their account is another.
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
No. Want respect, earn it.
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
Acceptable to a point. It depends on how you know that person and the setting. GvG taunting, for example.
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
None of these things actually have an effect on gameplay, so I couldn't care less whether your storage shows a bigger number or you have a better title. I'd applaud someone who wasn't dumb enough to stand around clicking a stack of alcohol manually. 3rd party methods that do affect gameplay are an entirely different matter. My answer would be different, for example, if gold gave you an advantage.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
No.
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
No.
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
No.
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
No.
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
Depends on who the match was against, and whether or not it was a good game.
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
Not necessary, but not inherently immature and a bad thing. It's part of most competitive atmospheres.

Never.

I assume they want to sell it quickly, I for one under price things quite often as I don't want to spend an hour or two sitting in Kamadan D1 trying to squeeze out every last drop of gold out of that worthless Colossal Scimitar.

I show everyone respect until they've proven they don't deserve it.

Belittling others outside of certain circles of friends is generally not okay. However with groups of close friends, it's just good fun.

Once every couple of minutes does the job just fine, although in trade chat, not in local.

I always tip the the regular price, sometimes more, although I haven't gotten a CoF run in a long while, I've been running it for tips on my mesmer and the amount of people that don't even say thanks is quite appalling.

If I know I may be leaving during an activity, I will notify the group, if I have to leave during an outing suddenly, I will notify them, apologize, then leave.

Unless you define leeching as being called away for something more important (real life) and not being able to get back right away, then yes. If not, no. Face it, real life is more important than a stupid game.
This is the only real thing that bugs me in Guild Wars, the amount of people that get so worked up about things popping up unexpectedly in real life and disrupting five minutes of their game time. Sorry, but the cats that may or may not be killing each other on my front porch are more important than finishing the CoF run, that you're not even going to pay for, quickly. *sorry about the little rant, was running for tips and some moron went off on me when I had to go break up a literal cat fight and make sure everyone was safe that took a whopping two minutes*

Always.

Immature, never necessary.

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
No
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Yes
- Do some players "just have it coming?"
Yes
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
No
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
ur bad jenn
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
Kittens.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
No
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
I don't tip, its a cheap shot at getting more money without raising the price of the run, its stupid and pathetic.
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
Yes, my henchmen PM me and go Y UR LEAVE
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
Not really
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
Depends.
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
Trash talking is necessary, and the highest form of maturity.

Although I don't personally believe in th ename them, blame them, and shame them policy; I strongly believe in ethics in the game and would firmly discipline anyone in my guild who falls below common ethical standards or takes part in any scams.

Having said that I know for a fact that what is ethical for some may not be for others under false pretenses like "this is just a game".

yes-very rarely
yes
yes
yes
yes
no
no
I did before when i was a noob
no
no
yes
Never start it, and be smart about it.

QFT.

I was in AB once when one of my teammates had to rush off to pacify her baby, who was crying, and said so in teamchat. One of the guys in the other teams actually said WTFH and wanted to report her for leeching, and was immediately told to shut up by seven fairly pissed off people.

Seriously, people who scam in GW scam in RL? Thats a lie right there since most people scam here because its a GAME. Its like scamming in monopoly, it has no meaning or correlation in RL since you don't face any consequences, people scam. And some people in the game who scam in real life don't scam in GW, there is never a correlation.

Now as for helping in real life, thats probably true since nice people are nice people, there is no changing that.

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?

No.

- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).

As far as I'm concerned, no, there is no difference, unless I'm not quite understanding the question. Taking advantage of someones ignorance to profit yourself financially, or otherwise, is still a scam.


- Do some players "just have it coming?"

Only in the most severe cases. Those who "hack", steal, and exploit have it coming. Those who use hate speech and abusive hate speech have it coming.


- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?

Yes. While the common answer is "Respect is earned", which is true, sometimes, given the situation, it's proper for you to show the repsect first in order to earn it in return.


- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?

Immature. Instead of belittling them, try working with them.


- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)

If you can't do it yourself, you're playing the wrong game.





Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)

No. I don't spam messages in any chat. Once is enough.


- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?

I don't get runs for CoF, or any other, so I can't answer this on experience.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?

No. Through good, or bad, I stick with people to the bitter end. The only time I've ever left without saying a word has been due to having my wireless drop my connection. That's the part of technology I can't control and I do feel awful when it happens.


- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?

I don't leech. I've always been an advocate of getting my hands dirty and doing the work myself (and it should be noted, the term "work" is used loosely here as it is a game.)


- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?

Yes, I do.


- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?

95% of it is not very creative and been around since 1997. It's generally immature. Trash talking in good jest is fine though. Meaning those who do it with a bit of a smile, let you know they're only kidding, aren't abusive about it and at the end will say to you, "Good game" and strike up a convo with you later on.

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
Guess pre seering would be a the best place for it, did it once or twice during my newb days have never done it since, help them now be more aware of prices.

- [I]Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).[/I]Depends where they are in the game really,

- Do some players "just have it coming?"
Yup,some people are just idiots
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?i think so yeah. i try to anyway.

- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
Smack talk is pretty effective tactic but if you need to use it i'd rethink how well a player you are.
As for people that diminish other peoples achievments (i.e. palyer one "Guys i just beat this mission/ Aquired this title!" player 2 " lol thats easy to get/do"
seems kind of mean to take it away from them, but proberly don't intend on doing that.

- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)See it as a bit scummy for buying gold etc. really dont agree with bot macro-ing but anet made a huge mistake by making it minites drank

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)Nope, just sned it about once every min or 2 and leave it in search while i go on the interwebz.

- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?I always try to be polite ingame , i;d try to tip a fair amount for the run.

- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything? I Don't really pug and in rare cases that i do i always make sure i have time to finish it

- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
MAybe a handful of cases i did the odd semi afk thing, where i always did a nice share of capping but went afk for a min at most but nothing along the lines of full afk, never.

- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?Always say paease and thanks, if irealy think the game was good i'd say GG but normally i dont in Ra and HB


- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?Not necessary, Mind games are required for some people to win in the hope the opponant will slip up.
and Silly "noob toucher" commants are just ignored by me, seem immune to such silly comments though they rarly come my way.

"Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?"

I think you owe strangers a certain level of respect. You can't approach people like they have to prove something to you in order for you to be cool with them. I guess this is a bit about mnemonics. To me basic respect is just being polite and decent. You have to do that to everyone. Unless you know they don't even deserve that. I have a problem with the whole you have to earn my respect thing. Who the F are you?

"Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
Everyone, always. The amount of respect can vary on how much respect they actually earn."
Exactly.

Also, trash talk can be fun and in good humour. You just have to know how to do it and not be an ass.

In general I make an effort to be friendly and helpful. I don't scam, but I've been scammed - when it happens to you it does spoil the game a bit for you in real life. Friendly and helpful people have made this game more enjoyable for me. I often answer the noob questions in towns and outposts because friendly people helped me when I first started and so I am passing it along.

I think of my 9 year old nephew who plays this game. You wouldn't have believed his build when I had him ping it to me. So people who laugh at the bad builds of others are probably just laughing at a child. When you scam someone you very likely scammed a child who could have used the in game money. I once had someone run my new character somewhere. The other person with us walked off without paying him - in talking to him I discovered he was very young and he had learned he could make some cash doing this. Though it's not a big deal I still felt bad someone scammed him.

This poll and those questions comes down to one thing. Some people think of the other person on the other end of the computer, and treat them the way they would like to be treated. It doesn't matter that they will never know one another. Others I hope, are not as callous to others in real life as they are to the anonymous players who play this game.

Ethics:
- Is there a time and place to knowingly scam the unknowing or unprepared?
No, never.
- Is there a difference between taking advantage of someone's ignorance and scamming? (I.e. someone selling an item for significantly less than it's worth).
Yes. I won't lie if they ask me what the appropriate price is, but I'll take a good deal if I see one.
- Do some players "just have it coming?"
Depends on what you mean. Hacking or scamming are no-no's, but I suppose killing a griefer repeatedly can be fun
- Do you think people owe it to most other people to show them respect?
It's good to be nice.
- Is belittling others in the "spirit of the game" acceptable or immature?
Belittling, no, helping them get better, yes.
- Are third-party methods of getting ahead acceptable or fair? (I.e. buying gold, afk-macroing drinking)
I really could care less if you want to spend real money for ingame money.

Etiquette:
- Do you needlessly and repeatedly spam messages in local chat? (wtb cloth x10 in 3 seconds)
I don't use local chat for trade.
- If someone is doing a CoF (or other) run for tips, are you the type of person to not even say thanks, not tip, and just get your reward? Or sometimes worse, do you add insult to the injury and only tip a meagre 100 gold?
I always say thanks and tip.
- With little regard for the other people in a party, do you leave missions/quests/etc.? Without saying anything?
I usually do missions with my Alliance anyway, so no.
- Do you leech in PvP or PvE and just not give a damn?
I might have to leave halfway through an Alliance Battle and neglect to log off...
- Do you say please and thank you? Or GG?
Yes.
- Is trash talking necessary? Is it generally immature?
No. Yes.