A new challenge. Destroy staleness in PVE. EXTREME MODE. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

15 Jul 2008 at 14:58 - 41

Quote:

-No PvE skills
-A variant of builds being used.
-A New Challange

This is bad?

However, unless I missread:

I believe they should make numbers smaller and improve the capabilities of enemy skill use aswell. And at the same time, do the same with henchmen and AI in general.

/Signed.

PS: Please use polls!

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

15 Jul 2008 at 18:09 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Theres no real challenge in an overpowered monster.

Id much prefer a monster on even skill-sets as me.

But even then it's not even, since you're going to be up against the idiocy of the AI. When you have to go against something "overpowered", you start to learn that what you've been running this whole time is not a good build but an acceptable one. The holes within it become more clear, you see where your strengths are lacking, and ultimately see what

So yes, Hard Mode is indeed challenging. It's just that we've surpassed it.

~~~

As to the suggestion itself, it'll be pretty tricky. If not implemented properly, this could be as challenging as the Kournans in NF: balanced but boring. And again there's the issue of the AI. But ultimately, it's the "build>skill" gameplay that exists within PvE. Whether or not this could change it would be unknown, but it'd be certain that heroes would be much less desired.

To those saying "programming nightmare": It's about the concept. Just assume that ANet can do anything to their game. "How well does this idea hold together?" is what you should be answering.

englitdaudelin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

East Coast

Soldier's Union [SU]

N/Me

15 Jul 2008 at 18:53 - 43

I'm a fan of a lot of these ideas... a hard mode that's gimmick-free? Sign me up.

The problem seems to start with the idea of a static build for mobs in areas. Would it be possible, instead of counter builds, and instead of overpowered boss bonus qualities...to have a possible rotating set of skill bars available to monsters in an area?

For instance, the Mandragor necros all carry a set skill bar in EotN. What if there were 5 skill bars coded--5 different skill bars: a hex-and-degen, like they currently have, an SS-Reckless Haste-Rigor Mortis group (Curse heavy?), a blood-magic heavy, and a condition-heavy bar?

So, when a character zones in, some device assigns (at random?) one of these skill bars to every possible mandragor necro in the area.

Combine this with varied bars for each of the class groups: the mandragor dervish: 5 possible bars. The mandragor warrior: 5 possible bars.

Keep these at 8 full-skill bars, with an elite skill...Now, the team would need to be prepared for an array of possibilities.

If it's possible to consider adding "synergy" in the monster builds, maybe randomness could go out the window: there could be a rotating set of team builds, well-synergized to cause multiple problems to the human team...and upon zoning, a team build would be assigned to each group spawn?

Perhaps the other thing missing from HM...8-person, or 8-creature, teams. Isn't that a HUGE chunk of what made both normal and HM so ... stale? The knowledge that you needed a full 8-person team at only one point in a given map...and the rest of the time, you faced mobs of 5-6?
I found the thought of facing level 28 monsters less daunting, when I learned...there weren't MORE of them. Groups of 8 would preclude the kind of 2-on-1 tactics that pop up sometimes in PvE play--sending 2 people to zap a monk would suddenly leave another critter uncovered.

komma

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

None

N/

15 Jul 2008 at 19:05 - 44

Or they could just tweak monster builds and bump up thier levels again, that would prolly be x-treme enough.....the counter idea would be fail, higher level monsters that have auto adjusted skill bars to counter the party would be A.I. pwnage even if they werent "perfect" counters. I like the idea of another difficulty now since hm seems like nm, and nm a seems like a strole in nolani.

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

15 Jul 2008 at 19:17 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by englitdaudelin

I'm a fan of a lot of these ideas... a hard mode that's gimmick-free? Sign me up.

The problem seems to start with the idea of a static build for mobs in areas. Would it be possible, instead of counter builds, and instead of overpowered boss bonus qualities...to have a possible rotating set of skill bars available to monsters in an area?

For instance, the Mandragor necros all carry a set skill bar in EotN. What if there were 5 skill bars coded--5 different skill bars: a hex-and-degen, like they currently have, an SS-Reckless Haste-Rigor Mortis group (Curse heavy?), a blood-magic heavy, and a condition-heavy bar?

So, when a character zones in, some device assigns (at random?) one of these skill bars to every possible mandragor necro in the area.

Combine this with varied bars for each of the class groups: the mandragor dervish: 5 possible bars. The mandragor warrior: 5 possible bars.

Keep these at 8 full-skill bars, with an elite skill...Now, the team would need to be prepared for an array of possibilities.

If it's possible to consider adding "synergy" in the monster builds, maybe randomness could go out the window: there could be a rotating set of team builds, well-synergized to cause multiple problems to the human team...and upon zoning, a team build would be assigned to each group spawn?

Perhaps the other thing missing from HM...8-person, or 8-creature, teams. Isn't that a HUGE chunk of what made both normal and HM so ... stale? The knowledge that you needed a full 8-person team at only one point in a given map...and the rest of the time, you faced mobs of 5-6?
I found the thought of facing level 28 monsters less daunting, when I learned...there weren't MORE of them. Groups of 8 would preclude the kind of 2-on-1 tactics that pop up sometimes in PvE play--sending 2 people to zap a monk would suddenly leave another critter uncovered.

One of my older ideas was exactly like that actually.

This is a more complicated version essentially.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

15 Jul 2008 at 19:21 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by komma

bump up thier levels again

No. Higher numbers =/= higher difficulty.

Alex the Great

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

America.....got a problem with that?

[Lite]

W/

15 Jul 2008 at 19:35 - 47

just keep the monsters on the same level as in Hard mode, and give them skill bars with synergy. Bars that you would see in a GvG or HA match.

kind of like the Charr Rspike, but better (seriously they use the wrong elite and prep)

the skills of the monsters dont need to change to counter you, just make them pvp quallity bars

komma

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

None

N/

15 Jul 2008 at 19:46 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

No. Higher numbers =/= higher difficulty.

D'uh thats what this thread is about, Extreme Mode, not slightly better builds on the monsters.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

15 Jul 2008 at 19:56 - 49

Read the part I quoted. You suggested bumping their levels up.

Don Doggy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

W/

15 Jul 2008 at 19:58 - 50

Good idea but I highly doubt it will happen.

rick1027

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/R

15 Jul 2008 at 20:07 - 51

only problem is people are gonna complain the new extreme mode is too hard they cant do it. and anet wants all areas to be at least doable for all

komma

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

None

N/

15 Jul 2008 at 20:16 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Read the part I quoted. You suggested bumping their levels up.

yea exactly...only by a few since skill effects get stronger exponentially at that level.

Solas

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ireland

Currently LF Active HA Guild, Glad 2, Comm.3, R2

E/

15 Jul 2008 at 20:34 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

This is bad?

...Did I say it was bad?
No i said it sounded like PvP

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

15 Jul 2008 at 21:53 - 54

You want enemies to all have good balanced skill bars and to use them intelligently? We have that mode already, its called PvP.

Actually, nvm, PvP has none of that anymore.

It's an ok idea, but I think it would be too hard to implement, too exploitable (think of the doppleganger), and too much of a pve style meta game. Either the builds are going to be nigh perfect counters to your build (think the worst kind of PvP metagaming builds + double damage/recharge/casting) or we would end up with every enemy in the game using almost exactly the same build.

I think any development time that just happens to be lying around would be put to better use just making enemies smarter then dogshit. Not to mention even if the enemies were perfect counter builds, I bet I (or at least someone else) could come up with a tank'n'spank build that relies on things that are completely uncounterable by pve enemies until we get an AI update that allows them to chose targets intelligently instead of going for either the nearest or training the monk. Shouts, weapon spells, and buffs without types could easily be an uncounterable wall, even without pve skills.

I think a more limited approach would be better, lets say all high end mobs get 1-3 wildcard skills on their bar that can be randomized between a number of different possibilites, but the 'core' 4-5 skills all remain the same. Gives every different mob a bit of originality, helps force people to be more reactionary instead of cookie cutter, and avoids some of the nasty possibilities that I outlined above. But above all else, we need better AI first. This is for all modes, not just this new uber mode, normal and hard mode desperately need these changes to make battles more unique. They also need the no pve skills/consumables changes, but lets not drag that discussion into this thread

.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

15 Jul 2008 at 22:01 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

...Did I say it was bad?
No i said it sounded like PvP

Then why state that? Isn't it obvious that it would be like that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by komma

yea exactly...only by a few since skill effects get stronger exponentially at that level.

That's still higher numbers. Making enemies smarter instead of stronger is the way to go. Maybe except for those few places in hard mode *cough* Old Ascalon *cough* which could have buffed enemies to a certain extent.

pamelf

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Australia

Lost Templars [LoTe]

Me/Mo

15 Jul 2008 at 23:34 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

You need to stop thinking inside the box.

The monster counters are intended to be "impossible" but beatable. You just have to know your own weaknesses and be prepared for it. Obviously tweaking and balancing would be needed but it will still lean towards HARD.

The monster builds should be, imo, based on balanced builds, and skills will change slightly to counter teams which are heavier on certain types of skills.

As for coding wise...The game already knows which skills are enchantments, and which skills work vs enchantments and which wont. It already knows which classes have the lowest armor, and which classes have slow casting skills. How much of a stretch is it to say:

if team A has ___ enchantment, monster team B has ____ anti-enchantment.
if team A has 7 warriors, monster team B has Dervish with Ebon Dust AUra, Ele with Blinding surge, ranger with Dust Trap and Necro with spiteful spirit.

But by your logic the monster reads the skill bar and will be able to counter the counter...If you know your own weakness in this instance so does the monster AI, and thus they would always win...

/notsigned.

This idea is way too complicated, and I'd go so far as to say damn near IMPOSSIBLE to implement. I even think that it removes skill from the game. Having randomized skill sets means that you can never plan. Most of the skill in this game is being able to see what an enemy's strengths are and counter those. I agree that I'd like more of a challenge. Hard Mode is ok, but it's still just beefed up sameness, as the OP stated earlier. I don't think random skills is the answer though, because then you're running blind into every fight, and you'll just see a whole lot of cookie cutter, overpowered builds with the HOPE that an enemy doesn't have this, or that skill. I like creating my own builds to counter enemy skill bars specifically, and your idea would sort of negate that.

An earlier poster stated that effects of buffs would be the way to go and I'm inclined to agree.

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

15 Jul 2008 at 23:50 - 57

Fail. The whole idea is like saying Sableye and Spiritomb from pokemon should have Wonder Guard.
If you did not understand the analogy, "Wonder Guard" in pokemon is an ability in which makes your pokemon only get hurt by attacks the type of its weakness. Sableye and Spiritomb have no weakness. Therefor creating an impossible-to-counter situation.

Unless you're too stupid to use common sense, RPG's is all about countering your enemy's strategy. Like a game of chess.
In this case, PvE is about countering the setup for all the enemies formations and obstacles.
If you were to take that away the countering for enemy mobs, it'd be like forcing you to play a flare elementalist up against a full team of mesmer and necromancer. Besides. Anet would not want to spend the money or time on this when they could be working on GW2!

/NotSigned&Failure

Good job.

Stockholm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Censored

R/

16 Jul 2008 at 00:01 - 58

Random composition of the groups that spawn, that should not be to hard to implement and would give you enough of a challange.

Duncan Idaho

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

N/

16 Jul 2008 at 00:13 - 59

More Ursans ...

/notsigned unless Ursan is nerfed

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

16 Jul 2008 at 00:37 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

An earlier poster stated that effects of buffs would be the way to go and I'm inclined to agree.

I too am going to have to be more in agreement with Mithran's ideas. As "lame" as it may sound, providing more roadblocks does encourage you to think of more in-depth and broader builds. Simple, but challenging.

pamelf

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Australia

Lost Templars [LoTe]

Me/Mo

16 Jul 2008 at 00:37 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncan Idaho

More Ursans ...

/notsigned unless Ursan is nerfed

Actually that is a very good point. If this were implemented no one would use an intelligent skill bar any more...you'd just have absolutely EVERYONE playing with PvE skills since monsters can't use them....

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

16 Jul 2008 at 00:40 - 62

And that's why PvE skills, among many other things, need a nerf bat to the nether regions.

...unless one of Mithran's "buffs" included not being able to be knocked-down? How nasty would that be??

Lady Raenef

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

Oregon, USA.

Zero Mercy [zm]

W/

16 Jul 2008 at 03:44 - 63

To be honest, I'd rather have a mode called 'Anet's game of U PHAIL,' where I'm not even kidding, they have Monster skills that literally own you. So impossibly hard, that everytime you kill a monster, you get 1,337 experience. That's if you kill a monster.

Each monster has a skill like the Base Defenders for AB.

Yeah, it's called U PHAIL for a reason. I'm not being sarcastic. I wouldn't mind being owned completely like this. More QQ threads to make it possible.

Edit PvE skills to be PvN skills. "Player versus Nothing."

They just look pretty. You can stare at the possibilities of what you could have used. Revert Ursan Blessing to it's original form and let the whining threads begin.

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

16 Jul 2008 at 04:10 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

To be honest, I'd rather have a mode called 'Anet's game of U PHAIL,' where I'm not even kidding, they have Monster skills that literally own you. So impossibly hard, that everytime you kill a monster, you get 1,337 experience. That's if you kill a monster.

Each monster has a skill like the Base Defenders for AB.

Yeah, it's called U PHAIL for a reason. I'm not being sarcastic. I wouldn't mind being owned completely like this. More QQ threads to make it possible.

Edit PvE skills to be PvN skills. "Player versus Nothing."

They just look pretty. You can stare at the possibilities of what you could have used. Revert Ursan Blessing to it's original form and let the whining threads begin.

Ursans could probably even kill base defenders. They can get 1k+ health and kd-lock the enemies so their skills are unusable. Untargeted aoe's ftw. GG.

Solas

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ireland

Currently LF Active HA Guild, Glad 2, Comm.3, R2

E/

16 Jul 2008 at 12:04 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Then why state that? Isn't it obvious that it would be like that?

...wait...So you want the developers to create a mode that emulates PvP (Why not just PvP?) using AI and that always counters your skillbar.....

/not-signed

and as others have stated it would be hard to implement and doubtfully ever used.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

16 Jul 2008 at 13:01 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach

...wait...So you want the developers to create a mode that emulates PvP (Why not just PvP?) using AI and that always counters your skillbar.....

Because in PvP, you need to have a full group of dedicated players who will listen. Because in PvP, it's not balanced anymore. Although fun, it isn't balanced, and for proof look at the builds you see. Enemies having counters to most of your things will force you to have a diverse and flexible team build, while keeping it in the essence of balance.

Quote:

and as others have stated it would be hard to implement and doubtfully ever used.

I thought posts like this were against the rules? It's a concept, and quite a good one at that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant

...unless one of Mithran's "buffs" included not being able to be knocked-down? How nasty would that be??

If that is so, goodbye to one of the best shutdown methods in the game. I wish they removed non-KD'able from certain monsters in the game, but making all of them non-KD'able is beyond retarded.

Solas

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ireland

Currently LF Active HA Guild, Glad 2, Comm.3, R2

E/

16 Jul 2008 at 13:34 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Because in PvP, you need to have a full group of dedicated players who will listen.

Ra and AB?
Need that too for elite areas.

Quote:

Because in PvP, it's not balanced anymore. Although fun, it isn't balanced, and for proof look at the builds you see

and PvE is?

Quote:

Enemies having counters to most of your things will force you to have a diverse and flexible team build, while keeping it in the essence of balance.

Isn't that What PvP is about, adapting and countering.

2 questions
1) Do you really think that the AI can be a challange without it just being insanly overpowered, With the current System i don't see how it can be done.
WoW's 5 man instnaces are pretty good, mobs of around 3-5 can take a min or 2, they are alot stronger and its mainly a tank and spank but it works nicly.

2) Do you think that there could be a bit of a loophool in which the party of 8 pick 8 skills all having the same skillbar and since there skill bar is countered that they would use skills that would actually have a negative impact on themselves?

Maybe the skill in the enemy skillbar is shadow form, 1 person goes in agros gets the to trigger Shadow Form, the lone person tries to break agro or dies, party waits for shadow form to end and runs in to kill them slowly depending the the 8 skills that were origionally chosen.

Quote:

I thought posts like this were against the rules? It's a concept, and quite a good one at that.

Can you quote the part that says that please?
And the conditions?

was reinforcing that given the choice of a PvP-like Pve Experiance Or a PvP Experiance the most would proberly pick PvP

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

16 Jul 2008 at 14:14 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach

Ra and AB?
Need that too for elite areas.

You do?

Last time I recall I could PuG it in HM with a Barrage PuG. The only communication you need are basic tactics such as pulling.

Quote:

and PvE is?

THIS PvE is. This mode should be to sort it out.

You don't get overbuffed mobs, but smart mobs.

Power doesn't compensate stupidity.

Quote:

Isn't that What PvP is about, adapting and countering.

No it isn't. /Sarcasm.

Are you suggesting that it's a bad concept to have to adapt and counter in PvE? Not to mention you already can counter in PvE because of pre-determined enemies.

Quote:

2 questions
1) Do you really think that the AI can be a challange without it just being insanly overpowered, With the current System i don't see how it can be done.
WoW's 5 man instnaces are pretty good, mobs of around 3-5 can take a min or 2, they are alot stronger and its mainly a tank and spank but it works nicly.

Making the AI use skills in the correct order for the certain build is a good start without overbuffing these skills. Oh, and again; power doesn't compensate stupidity.

Quote:

2) Do you think that there could be a bit of a loophool in which the party of 8 pick 8 skills all having the same skillbar and since there skill bar is countered that they would use skills that would actually have a negative impact on themselves?

If the AI knows how to use skills correctly, this can be avoided.

Quote:

Maybe the skill in the enemy skillbar is shadow form, 1 person goes in agros gets the to trigger Shadow Form, the lone person tries to break agro or dies, party waits for shadow form to end and runs in to kill them slowly depending the the 8 skills that were origionally chosen.

[signet of disenchantment]

Oh, and that would mostly be 'Sin mobs. Giving everything Shadow Form would be retarded. It counters nearly everything, but nearly everything.

Quote:

was reinforcing that given the choice of a PvP-like Pve Experiance Or a PvP Experiance the most would proberly pick PvP

/Deletes Guild Wars Prophecies.

Now you have a point.

Quote:

Can you quote the part that says that please?
And the conditions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stickied & Locked guidelines thread

10. "It'll Never Happen!"

Due to the current situation in Guild Wars itself, several people have been seen posting replies to threads stating that users might as well not make suggestions for Guild Wars: 1 because ArenaNet will likely not take any notice, or implement anything else. Sardelac Moderators would like to remind you that this is a place for discussion, and to share ideas, regardless of how likely they are to be implemented in GW:1.

Quote:

and as others have stated it would be hard to implement and doubtfully ever used.

Bolded the main parts.

Mr Joshua Strange

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2008

By Virtue of Power

D/R

16 Jul 2008 at 14:31 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathwearer

Sugesting something to hard to do is like sugesting nothing.

Imagine if the world worked like that. "We can't do it! It's too hard!"

I like the concept. /signed.

PvE I can take for about half an hour on a given character at the moment.

And, FYI, OP specifically said no PvE skills, so Ursans = NOT THAR!

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

16 Jul 2008 at 14:43 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If that is so, goodbye to one of the best shutdown methods in the game.

Precisely the reason.

Solas

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ireland

Currently LF Active HA Guild, Glad 2, Comm.3, R2

E/

16 Jul 2008 at 20:52 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You do?

Last time I recall I could PuG it in HM with a Barrage PuG. The only communication you need are basic tactics such as pulling.

Low amounts of dedication and listening are still required, why alot of pugs fail.

Quote:

THIS PvE is. This mode should be to sort it out.

You don't get overbuffed mobs, but smart mobs.

Power doesn't compensate stupidity.

Automatically Countered build's does's compensate stupidity either.

Quote:

No it isn't. /Sarcasm.

Are you suggesting that it's a bad concept to have to adapt and counter in PvE?
Not at all, but i believe fully countering the build is not the way to go either.

Quote:

Making the AI use skills in the correct order for the certain build is a good start without overbuffing these skills. Oh, and again; power doesn't compensate stupidity.

But if the countering targets each skill then the enemy build may be a mix of differant professions and if it limited the enemies to 2 professions then problems may arise.

Quote:

If the AI knows how to use skills correctly, this can be avoided.

Quote:

Oh, and that would mostly be 'Sin mobs. Giving everything Shadow Form would be retarded. It counters nearly everything, but nearly everything.

When you say sin mobs I assume that the 2 prof system will still be in place for the mobs, In the OP the example of 8 enchants could be countered by 8 enchantment removals skills meaning the build would be effective if the enemy used enchants, and I don't think all mobs in the game have 8 enchant removals at the disposal with 2 prof limit.

I understant that was an example but it may lead to problems.

Quote:

/Deletes Guild Wars Prophecies.

Now you have a point.

So Proph Pve and the Extreme mode your looking for are the same?
/rolls eyes

Your trying to get a mobs skill bar to update every time a group enter that instance,Increased AI and make them more like fighting a PvP opponant

Quote:

Bolded the main parts.

Aye, I'd read that more like if a post made that its only comment, where as i included that as a little detail. If i was in the wrong my bad.

/request poll please
I would like to know where a fair amount of people stand on the subject.
As if the majority of people are alreay on one side of the arguement it seems pointless for me to continue

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

16 Jul 2008 at 21:01 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach

Low amounts of dedication and listening are still required, why alot of pugs fail.

Yet I could have just mindlessly rolled my head on the keyboard still. Sure, I had to pay more attention than I would usually as there is still some margin of failure without consumables and the like, but it really doesn't take it at all.

Quote:

Automatically Countered build's does's compensate stupidity either.

Automatically countered builds forces the player to bring a balanced build. One that has counters to everything that shows up, complete with interrupts and the like. Aswell as making the AI of the enemy so they understand how to use these builds.

Quote:

But if the countering targets each skill then the enemy build may be a mix of differant professions and if it limited the enemies to 2 professions then problems may arise.

A diverse build would force the enemies into a diverse build too. If you run a gimmick, it will be countered by the enemies.

Quote:

When you say sin mobs I assume that the 2 prof system will still be in place for the mobs, In the OP the example of 8 enchants could be countered by 8 enchantment removals skills meaning the build would be effective if the enemy used enchants, and I don't think all mobs in the game have 8 enchant removals at the disposal with 2 prof limit.

I understant that was an example but it may lead to problems.

Interrupts and mass enchant removals such as Mirror of Disenchantment and Chillblains.

Quote:

So Proph Pve and the Extreme mode your looking for are the same?
/rolls eyes

Your trying to get a mobs skill bar to update every time a group enter that instance,Increased AI and make them more like fighting a PvP opponant

And look at the desert. It gives a little bit of the PvP experience by using similar, if not exactly the same objectives as the Hall of Heroes games.

Arlan

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

FaT

Mo/

16 Jul 2008 at 22:08 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

I'm not really thinking inside the box. But your wording is saying that even bringing counters for the counters of your builds will be countered. I am saying, for making coding easier, to give most monsters a counter to most gimmick builds. This would need counters to the enemies' builds but your counters won't be countered, which is what your suggesting.

Also, your need to think logically. If you bring a build that has counters, but you also have a few skills that counters the counters to your build, those first counters (the ones that the enemy has) are no longer true counters, and by what your wanting, the monsters will just bring a counter to the counters that you brought, which will mean that you will need a counter to the counters of your counter, which ends up making an ENDLESS CYCLE OF COUNTERS THAT WON'T WORK!

Quite possibly one of the funniest things I've read on GWG. Well done - and it makes sense as well.
Counting the 'counter*'s we have 18 in two sentences. Amazing.

OT - I agree that a harder hard mode would be good - not sure i would like all the monsters to skill up depending on what skills i was carrying - sounds a bit like a cheat to me. Countering (dont get me started) my build before i start is'nt a level playing field.
I would'nt mind going against groups that had alternating skill bars (not so hard to work out or create I think) - so this would, in effect get rid of gimmick or cookie builds.
If you had a well skilled group they should be able to handle most of what they come up against - the 'lesser' skilled - or perhaps more inexperienced groups might do well, or may get smashed up (hopefully even highly skilled groups would get a spanking sometimes) - depending on the skills of the monster groups and the players involved.
Either way - this gives a player skill v's monster skill playing field.

Mind you - hard mode is now normal mode - normal mode is now easy mode. Would'nt take long for the nerfs to kick in (have you seen the whining this year?) so the extreme mode would eventually be dumbed down.
Even the highend hard mode areas are easily do-able now due to bears (don't even go there) running round all over the place!!!

Great idea - and maybe last year even might have had a chance if people shouted loud enough.

I MP I

Hustler

Join Date: Nov 2006

in between GW2 servers

Mo/

16 Jul 2008 at 22:14 - 74

/not signed

I don't see the point in making an extreme mode. Same enemies with different skills, same crappy item drops, some sort of title/emote doesn't seem all that appealing imo.

Tender Wolf

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona

The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN]

R/

17 Jul 2008 at 01:03 - 75

/not signed

Hard mode is annoying enough we don't need to make the game any harder. I'd much rather see them focusing on Guild Wars 2 than making the game harder than it already is in hard mode.

Deleet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Denmark

Rule Thirty Four [prOn]

Mo/

17 Jul 2008 at 04:35 - 76

The problem is that there is already a game mode that features this: PvP.

Deleet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Denmark

Rule Thirty Four [prOn]

Mo/

17 Jul 2008 at 04:36 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

/not signed

Hard mode is annoying enough we don't need to make the game any harder. I'd much rather see them focusing on Guild Wars 2 than making the game harder than it already is in hard mode.

Do you really mean this? I find it hard to believe that you can believe this.

glacialphoenix

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

Singapore

Royal Order of Flying Lemmings [ROFL]

Mo/

17 Jul 2008 at 05:58 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

Hard mode is annoying enough we don't need to make the game any harder. I'd much rather see them focusing on Guild Wars 2 than making the game harder than it already is in hard mode.

I cannot believe you actually said that.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

17 Jul 2008 at 08:28 - 79

i like this idea, and would like to contribute something

usually you go out with a set of skill right, well, thats right :P and to make it challenging like you would want it to, and seeing that we have so many skills in GW and only, say roughly 10% of it is being use, the rest are just there, no one ever attempt to try to use them, even if you do, people are gonna laugh at you, hell, players even laugh at you for using stone daggers, which in my opinion is actually very good :P~

so. long story short.

when you zone, game will give your character and heros a pre-made skill bar, one that is store in ArenaNet system, and each time you zone, the skill bar will change for your character and heros.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

17 Jul 2008 at 14:19 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

/not signed

Hard mode is annoying enough we don't need to make the game any harder. I'd much rather see them focusing on Guild Wars 2 than making the game harder than it already is in hard mode.

You know, you don't have to play this mode. It's for people who want more of a challenge in terms of PvE. Oh, and if it's annoying why are you doing it?