War vs. Derv
Shiishii Momo
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkytoejams
both are good, in pvp its warrior all the way, a good conjure eviscerate or shock axe warrior can apply serious pressure, (most top 10 guilds run hammer/axe warriors on frontline, ive seen dervs and sins too but they are rare) and i think a axe warrior with IAS is still the highest sustainable dps in the game? not to mention KD, which can interupt, dissable and snare all in one, then theres adrenalin and the highest base armor...,i love my conjure wounding strike derv right now too dont get me wrong, but they are seeing nerfs now like the recent chilling victory nerf and imho they might nerf wounding strike (a deep wound with bleed cover every 3 secs, when you add free ims and long ias, is a little imba imho when you stack conjure, strength n honour, judges insight, sundering weapon, etc, on top of the deep wound, esp if you throw a crit or two in there, dmg is unreal).
for pve i would take a warrior, i actually have only 1 pve character and its a warrior, mostly bcuz i can also farm good $ on her in uw with solo smites+chaos plains or solo fow beach +cave, and it can be fun running gimmick builds in pve sometimes like iway, and they are so versatile as far as builds and soo much fun to play, and if you decide to make an armor set for pvp, you can pvp on your warrior too and its much easier to get in a grp than the derv. Win.
Please remember this is a discussion forum, thanks, FunkyToeJams for contributing, you make a lot of sense.
for pve i would take a warrior, i actually have only 1 pve character and its a warrior, mostly bcuz i can also farm good $ on her in uw with solo smites+chaos plains or solo fow beach +cave, and it can be fun running gimmick builds in pve sometimes like iway, and they are so versatile as far as builds and soo much fun to play, and if you decide to make an armor set for pvp, you can pvp on your warrior too and its much easier to get in a grp than the derv. Win.
Please remember this is a discussion forum, thanks, FunkyToeJams for contributing, you make a lot of sense.
Don Doggy
For PvE Dervish is probably more effective. I have played both in PvE and find them two of the most enjoyable professions to play but I do prefer playing warrior.
Shuuda
Four skills:
- Bull's Strike.
- Rush.
- Frenzy.
- Eviscerate.
This topic is over. We have a clear winner.
- Bull's Strike.
- Rush.
- Frenzy.
- Eviscerate.
This topic is over. We have a clear winner.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuuda
- Bull's Strike.
- Rush.
- Frenzy.
- Eviscerate.
This topic is over. We have a clear winner.
- Chilling Victory
- Signet of Mystic Speed
- Heart of Fury
- Wounding Strike
All attacks AoE.
This topic is not over. We do not have a clear winner.
MisterT69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
- Chilling Victory
- Signet of Mystic Speed
- Heart of Fury
- Wounding Strike
All attacks AoE.
This topic is not over. We do not have a clear winner. Well, let's up the ante then...[eternal aura][aura of holy might], all the avatars...[vow of strength]+[heart of holy flame]<--non undead survives that especially with holy might. So yeah...I think we now have a winner in the DPS department
Cathode_Reborn
Stupid PvE mechanics weaken dervs abit.
Higher lvl mobs decrease your chance of gettin crit hits. Not sure by how much percent, but it does. Since Dervs don't really have much armor-ignoring damage coming from attack skills, this can become a prob in areas where stuff has unusually high armor - don't be surprised when you're hitting as low as 30 against some enemies. Still though, they can often hit for 100+ with Aura of Holy Might.
As for DPS, Derv actually doesn't always win there. War/Derv damage will change alot depending on a mob's armor level. Scythe range is Adjacent, which is really small. There'll be tons of situations where you're not hitting multiple enemies. I've played both
War has 2 less energy pips, but also doesn't need energy. Unlike Sins, who also use energy alot, Derv e-mangement isn't that great. The best e-mangement actually comes from the rest of your team.....monks casting enchantments on you, or someone spamming Orders definitely helps alot.
For HM, I prefer a warrior mainly cause the "SY" spam and KD-lock from Brawling Headbutt. Both are really good though.
Higher lvl mobs decrease your chance of gettin crit hits. Not sure by how much percent, but it does. Since Dervs don't really have much armor-ignoring damage coming from attack skills, this can become a prob in areas where stuff has unusually high armor - don't be surprised when you're hitting as low as 30 against some enemies. Still though, they can often hit for 100+ with Aura of Holy Might.
As for DPS, Derv actually doesn't always win there. War/Derv damage will change alot depending on a mob's armor level. Scythe range is Adjacent, which is really small. There'll be tons of situations where you're not hitting multiple enemies. I've played both
War has 2 less energy pips, but also doesn't need energy. Unlike Sins, who also use energy alot, Derv e-mangement isn't that great. The best e-mangement actually comes from the rest of your team.....monks casting enchantments on you, or someone spamming Orders definitely helps alot.
For HM, I prefer a warrior mainly cause the "SY" spam and KD-lock from Brawling Headbutt. Both are really good though.
Innocent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elder III
Warrior is simpler to play (in most cases) and hard to totally fail at - just keep mending off your bar, ok? 
If you don't mind stopping before battles to cast a few enchants than Dervish is sweet too. :d
Imo they both lots of fun and in PVE there equally valid. And dervish is hard to fail at how? [Wounding Strike] there's your bar. You don't really need anything else. Maybe [Chilling Victory]. 1-2 1-2 until things die. You don't really need to pick targets, you hit 3 of them at once. tab-space crit damage is off the wall. Dervish is frontline for dummies.
[edit]
GWBB code [[skill ] tags don't work.
If you don't mind stopping before battles to cast a few enchants than Dervish is sweet too. :d
Imo they both lots of fun and in PVE there equally valid. And dervish is hard to fail at how? [Wounding Strike] there's your bar. You don't really need anything else. Maybe [Chilling Victory]. 1-2 1-2 until things die. You don't really need to pick targets, you hit 3 of them at once. tab-space crit damage is off the wall. Dervish is frontline for dummies.
[edit]
GWBB code [[skill ] tags don't work.
FlamingMetroid
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterT69
Well, let's up the ante then...[eternal aura][aura of holy might], all the avatars...[vow of strength]+[heart of holy flame]<--non undead survives that especially with holy might. So yeah...I think we now have a winner in the DPS department
[moebius strike][death blossom][critical agility]ups
never stop believing
never stop believing
Snow Bunny
I suppose that it matters what the OP wants in his main character.
War:
More survivable, greater weapon selection, more utility.
The warrior can go AoE with triple chop, Dslash spam with SY!, or annihilate shit with Earthshaker. The warrior is also a slightly more pug-friendly choice.
Derv:
Very high damage, aoe damage (albeit small aoe), more party roles.
The dervish will be able to suit up for a variety of changing conditions. Hexes? Go Avatar of Dwayna. Condition Stacks? Avatar of Melandru. Want Deep Wound on command? Wounding Strike. Dervishes are frequently (at least in my guild) required for our FoW runs - finding them can be hard if the right people aren't on, so those players always get in group, etc.
And finally, as petty as this sounds, you must consider aesthetic choice for armor.
It's all about playstyle.
War:
More survivable, greater weapon selection, more utility.
The warrior can go AoE with triple chop, Dslash spam with SY!, or annihilate shit with Earthshaker. The warrior is also a slightly more pug-friendly choice.
Derv:
Very high damage, aoe damage (albeit small aoe), more party roles.
The dervish will be able to suit up for a variety of changing conditions. Hexes? Go Avatar of Dwayna. Condition Stacks? Avatar of Melandru. Want Deep Wound on command? Wounding Strike. Dervishes are frequently (at least in my guild) required for our FoW runs - finding them can be hard if the right people aren't on, so those players always get in group, etc.
And finally, as petty as this sounds, you must consider aesthetic choice for armor.
It's all about playstyle.
Shuuda
Quote:
- Chilling Victory
- Signet of Mystic Speed
- Heart of Fury
- Wounding Strike
All attacks AoE. Perhaps, but Warriors are more versatile. What do Dervs have beyond a few Avatars (most of which are crap), and a spike build (which is long overdue for a nerf). The answer, nothing (well, nothing worth using.)
Warriors have:
- Three weapons, all of which have atleast one good bar or more in both PvE and PvP.
- SY + Dragonslash in PvE.
- Eviscerate and Magehunter in PvP.
- Lots of options for utility skills (Shock, rend touch, Power Spike etc)
- More natural defence.
- No reliance of enchantments that need to be put up every 30 seconds.
- Better options of IAS and top notch running stances.
- Bull Strike.
And for armour, warriors are better in my opinion:
- Man in suit of armour > Man in a dress.
- Though females dervs do look nice, female warriors have more options.
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuuda
Four skills:
- Bull's Strike.
- Rush.
- Frenzy.
- Eviscerate.
This topic is over. We have a clear winner. OP is talking about PvE. In PvE, 3/4 of those skills aren't that great. I'll let you figure out which ones they are.
This topic isn't over, as you really aren't proving anything for PvE.
- Bull's Strike.
- Rush.
- Frenzy.
- Eviscerate.
This topic is over. We have a clear winner. OP is talking about PvE. In PvE, 3/4 of those skills aren't that great. I'll let you figure out which ones they are.
This topic isn't over, as you really aren't proving anything for PvE.
MisterT69
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid
[moebius strike][death blossom][critical agility]ups
never stop believing Thought this was war vs. derv...not da ub3r pwnz0r sin :P
never stop believing Thought this was war vs. derv...not da ub3r pwnz0r sin :P
Magikarp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
- Chilling Victory
- Signet of Mystic Speed
- Heart of Fury
- Wounding Strike
All attacks AoE.
This topic is not over. We do not have a clear winner.
Quote:
his post was edited, so when i quoted him, it took it away. long story short, he was quoting me, calling me a failure because i said he was incorrect about how versatile a warrior is. had nothing to do with you, so i apologize.|
Originally Posted by Shiishii Momo
Win.
Please remember this is a discussion forum, thanks, FunkyToeJams for contributing, you make a lot of sense. you posted nothing but inccorect rambles for your cons on warriors, such as "energy management" and "lack of diversity", while one, warriors barely need ANY energy (what game do you play???), and two, warriors, next to necros and rangers, are the most diverse class in the ENTIRE GAME. dervs are a one trick pony minus orders and a few sub-par farming builds. they stand still, cast only for themselves, offer little to no utility (minus orders), and dish out dps (the only thing they do well.. and warriors still do it better because they offer 80%+ damage reduction). this argument is retarded. the op clearly likes dervs more, so why not just play them? no one really cares what YOU do, and tbh, this is a flame bait-ridden thread to begin with.
sindex
I still feel that all the original five core classes (minus the mesmer) shown in prophecies are a cliché to a point where I play them less then any other profession. Unfortunately, the Warrior is right up there for being remarkably dull and boring at the same time. How many times have people played this class in other RPG’s and not felt the repetitive “hack and slash,” gameplay (without a good combat system) that goes along with it?
Yes, there is some problem with the new professions that probably will be rounded out when GW 2 comes rolling around. However, I do not want to be dealing with “village idiot,” common design fantasy RPG knowledge philosophy, to being about what should be the mainstay classes in GW 2 for long. I like something unique and fresh instead of the same and conventional. Nevertheless, that’s my opinion on the subject matter, but I know a good amount of conservative RPG players would beg to differ. It’s a matter of taste. Damian979
It's all in preference and play style, a derv is going to do more damage but is also going to die quicker if you aren't careful. A warrior is going to do less damage per strike but will have more consistent damage at a faster attack rate and be able to take a whole lot more punishment.
I have played both classes extensively and still have to prefer the assassin for melee as they put out insane damage, insanly fast, and taking damage is practically a mute point because you won't hardly be getting hit if you play one right 
shoyon456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magikarp
you posted nothing but inccorect rambles for your cons on warriors, such as "energy management" and "lack of diversity", while one, warriors barely need ANY energy (what game do you play???), and two, warriors, next to necros and rangers, are the most diverse class in the ENTIRE GAME. dervs are a one trick pony minus orders and a few sub-par farming builds. they stand still, cast only for themselves, offer little to no utility (minus orders), and dish out dps (the only thing they do well.. and warriors still do it better because they offer 80%+ damage reduction). this is a flame bait-ridden thread to begin with. And ironically you are a big contribution to that flaming. Warriors do have more diversity, but if a class doesn't have more diversity when having THREE weps tied to it doesnt scream diversity, i dont know what does. Derv's sacrifice some of this diversity because as stated, they are not a core class and anet has not cared to elaborate on the newer classes as much as i would like. However, they in turn receive the highest max dmg weapon in game, have a primary that provides excellent energy. And have built in buffs for many specific counters. funkytoejams
you cant really compare the dps of warriors and ders by using ATTACK SKILLS, it rly wouldnt be fair to dervs, a warrior can SUSTAIN his attacks (adrenalin) AND ias (FLAIL+rush for break stance, i use frenzy but you get the point), and a warrior gets extra dmg on attacks bcuz of the extra armor penetration from strength, but a dervs dmg will drop by a huge amount once they are out of energy or if enchants are stripped, and lets not forget the attack speed/rate on an axe is much faster than on a scythe, the math has been done many times on this and axe warrior has the highest sustainable dps in the game. if i take a derv and a axe warrior and wail away on master of dmg, the longer we keep at it the bigger the gap between warrior and derv will be because you can not keep up that lvl of dps, what happens in a fight when your target soaks up all ur big dmg with big prots from monk and then ur out of energy? wont happen on my warrior, ill put sustained pressure on my target and when prots are done i can spike with the adrenalin i have built up.
funkytoejams
magikarp when you say ramblings, are you talking about me? the quote makes it hard to tell who its dirrected at, he said thanks for your contribution and then you start flaming, if your talking about me... ur reading the wrong post... never said any of that...
lyra_song
D/W .-. mix and match?
Magikarp
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkytoejams
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by shoyon456
And ironically you are a big contribution to that flaming.
Warriors do have more diversity, but if a class doesn't have more diversity when having THREE weps tied to it doesnt scream diversity, i dont know what does. Derv's sacrifice some of this diversity because as stated, they are not a core class and anet has not cared to elaborate on the newer classes as much as i would like. However, they in turn receive the highest max dmg weapon in game, have a primary that provides excellent energy. And have built in buffs for many specific counters. i said it was flame-bait, not that i wasn't contributing by posting lol. as for the remainder of your post: you just answered that question lol. you say "oh, well of course warriors are more diverse, they have three weapons", along with some of the other post saying "warriors get 4 campaigns of attacks" etc.. well.. thats still showing that warriors>dervs in the skillpool and general diversity. throw in the fact that we farm better, offer infinite team-based utility, and on top of it all, dish out the most damage in pvp (and a lot of the time pve, not excluding AoE), and you have the exact reason why warrior is still one of the most important classes in the game next to monk.
Bryant Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
D/W .-. mix and match?
WD/DW, imho.
FoxBat
[skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]eremite's attack[/skill][skill]Heart of Fury[/skill][skill]Eternal Aura[/skill][skill]save yourselves[/skill] + Avatar of Choice + Whatever
Works fairly well when hitting clumped enemies, if you have an orders spamming [skill]Dark Fury[/skill] Sadly [skill]Aura of Holy Might[/skill] converts to holy, negating [skill]Order of Pain[/skill]... debatable which one nets you more damage depending on enemy armor. Kanyatta
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Leeroy
Warriors have skills from all chapters. nuff said.
Dervishes have Wounding Strike. Especially with a smite mez, and unconditional AoE damage, that's a much bigger nuff said.
Sirius-NZ
DSlash is nice, but even a DSlash warrior can't outdo a Lyssa AoHM dervish for sheer damage. Pretty much nothing bar an assassin can.
Brian the Gladiator
This is the truth about Warriors and Dervishes. Feel free to forget everything you have read in this thread up until this point because what I am about to say is the only thing that matters.
_______________________________________________ What is elitism??? I don't get it. _______________________________________________ Dervishes have better overall DPS than a warrior when given the right build. They have the ability to spam deep wound on their enemies which is one of the best things that you can do in this game. The four pips of regen allow for more attack skill spamming as well as enchantment buffing. (I wouldn't leave home without conjure on my derve most of the time... the skill simply fits with the class.) The main flaw in the dervish class is low versatility. This is what the OP said was wrong with the warrior and I disagree 100% with that, but I will discuss the warrior later. The reason why I say dervishes have low versatility is because in order to obtain versatility on a dervish, you must sacrifice its damage capabilities, unlike a warrior which can carry 2 knock downs (or 1 KD and a self heal), an IAS, and a speed buff all at the same time without sacrificing much of it's damage capabilities. A dervish has relatively zero KD capabilities (which is HUGE). The way I look at dervishes is this: Dervishes are a like a tow sided coin. You are either a massive damage dealer and you rely on others to keep you alive, remove unwanted hexes and conditions, or keep you from being shut down in other ways, or you can be a tank dervish with minimal damage capabilities and you can sit there all day absorbing damage like a sponge, requiring no outside healing at all but you are relatively useless. I understand ^^ this segment ^^ can be a bit hard to grasp seeing as it isn't very organized so i will try to give a bit of a recap... Dervish Pros: High damage, AoE capabilities, *Deep Wound Spread* Cons: Very low versatility (forces you to choose one style of play or the other to be effective), no KD, a limited enchantment based IAS.(good because of it's long duration -- bad because it can be removed and interrupted/takes time to cast). Low Armor (base 70) *I put a star next to "deep wound spread" because it is really what makes the class so great. Warrior Pros: High damage as well (lower than the dervish), easy use IAS skills with a variety of options, *Very versatile*, high armor so no defensive skills are necessary (base 80+20 vs physical + shield). *I put a star next to "Very Versatile" because it is really what makes the class so great. I personally prefer Dervishes over Warriors in PvE simply because of the damage, the AoE, and especially the ability to apply a covered deep wound to as many foes as possible. The versatility that comes with the Warrior profession isn't as necessary in PvE as it is in PvP because, for the most part, you will be with an 8 man group and never have to rely on yourself to maintain health, remove unwanted conditions/hexes, and all the other stuff involved with being a versatile player. The only thing you need to worry about is pumping out BIG DAMAGE. [wounding strike][chilling victory][mystic sweep]["I am unstoppable!"][heart of fury][conjure frost][faithful intervention][sunspear rebirth signet] ~Brian
shoyon456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magikarp
|
Quote:
throw in the fact that we farm better, offer infinite team-based utility, and on top of it all, dish out the most damage in pvp (and a lot of the time pve, not excluding AoE), and you have the exact reason why warrior is still one of the most important classes in the game next to monk. 1. Farming? Honestly if you want to farm don't pick up either, the perma sin is still #1. Farming is a very moot point irrelevant to the OP from what I understand.
2. Team utility is linked to wars, no argument their, although "infinite" isn't the right word, as paras were made for infinite team based utility.
3. Derv's generally out dps a warrior in PvP. PvE, as mentioned, has monsters of very high levels, which makes dps on a scythe hard to come by without using Avatar of Lyssa. In PvP what makes a warrior potent is the use of a well-timed knockdown, which is what the derv makes up for by spammable high dps attacks and constant Deep Wound.
4. Warriors are not neccessary tbh. Death to the Holy Trinity.
cellardweller
I'm pretty sure I'm dumber for having read this thread.
Maria The Princess
dervish ftw!
much more versatility then a warrior, and with enouth mysticism you should have energy problems with a prot monkin the group, which every group shoudl have anyways.
much more versatility then a warrior, and with enouth mysticism you should have energy problems with a prot monkin the group, which every group shoudl have anyways.
Magikarp
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoyon456
And i was not disputing that. The 2 campaigns that dervs do not have skills for and the 3 weapon types linked to wars make them more versatile. However, in the limited dervish skill pool, the skills are more potent.
1. Farming? Honestly if you want to farm don't pick up either, the perma sin is still #1. Farming is a very moot point irrelevant to the OP from what I understand.
2. Team utility is linked to wars, no argument their, although "infinite" isn't the right word, as paras were made for infinite team based utility.
3. Derv's generally out dps a warrior in PvP. PvE, as mentioned, has monsters of very high levels, which makes dps on a scythe hard to come by without using Avatar of Lyssa. In PvP what makes a warrior potent is the use of a well-timed knockdown, which is what the derv makes up for by spammable high dps attacks and constant Deep Wound.
4. Warriors are not neccessary tbh. Death to the Holy Trinity. skills more potent?? are you serious? dervs have about 15 good moves, and about 10 more ok ones, as opposed to the 60-70 good warrior skills, and 2 of those being the top best skills in the game (bulls and frenzy).
as for your post..
1: fair enough, but even while i have a warrior, sin, and derv, i still only farmed on my warrior back in the day, because i dont farm anymore, so you're correct here.
2: if we're talking wars and dervs, leave paras out, because we all know what they're for. my statement pinpointed the fact that warriors were more team friendly.
3: you're basically saying that the entire point to dervs is the DW spread, but thats with WS, so you cant have both Lyssa and WS, so pick one, leaving your DPS about that of a hammer warrior with conjure.. not that big of a deal seeing as KD>all utility in the entire game.
4: Holy shmoly, i play warriors because i love their simplistic, yet effective play-style. they're my relax button.
1. Farming? Honestly if you want to farm don't pick up either, the perma sin is still #1. Farming is a very moot point irrelevant to the OP from what I understand.
2. Team utility is linked to wars, no argument their, although "infinite" isn't the right word, as paras were made for infinite team based utility.
3. Derv's generally out dps a warrior in PvP. PvE, as mentioned, has monsters of very high levels, which makes dps on a scythe hard to come by without using Avatar of Lyssa. In PvP what makes a warrior potent is the use of a well-timed knockdown, which is what the derv makes up for by spammable high dps attacks and constant Deep Wound.
4. Warriors are not neccessary tbh. Death to the Holy Trinity. skills more potent?? are you serious? dervs have about 15 good moves, and about 10 more ok ones, as opposed to the 60-70 good warrior skills, and 2 of those being the top best skills in the game (bulls and frenzy).
as for your post..
1: fair enough, but even while i have a warrior, sin, and derv, i still only farmed on my warrior back in the day, because i dont farm anymore, so you're correct here.
2: if we're talking wars and dervs, leave paras out, because we all know what they're for. my statement pinpointed the fact that warriors were more team friendly.
3: you're basically saying that the entire point to dervs is the DW spread, but thats with WS, so you cant have both Lyssa and WS, so pick one, leaving your DPS about that of a hammer warrior with conjure.. not that big of a deal seeing as KD>all utility in the entire game.
4: Holy shmoly, i play warriors because i love their simplistic, yet effective play-style. they're my relax button.
Lady Raenef
I love how people argue that warrior sare simple minded to play. While anyone can run in and die, it's a much more broad scale to know when to apply effects, switch targets, and survive. Groups always have healers, personally a self-healing isn't the best idea on a warrior.
Dervishes mainly consisted of this: avatar, mystic regeneration, vital boon.
For PvE, I'd say probably Dervish over warrior, just because it's easier. Not many things remove enchantments. For PvP, warriors are definitely accepted far beyond a dervish. Not to mention, I deleted my dervish because it bored me to death. Even bought the damn thing primeval. I love melee classes, but dervish just blows. All my opinions of course. =]
As for the argument of warriors lacking good skills, you have no idea what you're talking about.
If you really want to use a scythe, go R/D. Those pack damage to me, for some reason or another. I fear them more than an actual dervish.
Dervishes mainly consisted of this: avatar, mystic regeneration, vital boon.
For PvE, I'd say probably Dervish over warrior, just because it's easier. Not many things remove enchantments. For PvP, warriors are definitely accepted far beyond a dervish. Not to mention, I deleted my dervish because it bored me to death. Even bought the damn thing primeval. I love melee classes, but dervish just blows. All my opinions of course. =]
As for the argument of warriors lacking good skills, you have no idea what you're talking about.
If you really want to use a scythe, go R/D. Those pack damage to me, for some reason or another. I fear them more than an actual dervish.
Magikarp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
I love how people argue that warrior sare simple minded to play. While anyone can run in and die, it's a much more broad scale to know when to apply effects, switch targets, and survive. Groups always have healers, personally a self-healing isn't the best idea on a warrior.
Dervishes mainly consisted of this: avatar, mystic regeneration, vital boon.
For PvE, I'd say probably Dervish over warrior, just because it's easier. Not many things remove enchantments. For PvP, warriors are definitely accepted far beyond a dervish. Not to mention, I deleted my dervish because it bored me to death. Even bought the damn thing primeval. I love melee classes, but dervish just blows. All my opinions of course. =]
As for the argument of warriors lacking good skills, you have no idea what you're talking about.
If you really want to use a scythe, go R/D. Those pack damage to me, for some reason or another. I fear them more than an actual dervish. you officially win the thread, and my heart.
Dervishes mainly consisted of this: avatar, mystic regeneration, vital boon.
For PvE, I'd say probably Dervish over warrior, just because it's easier. Not many things remove enchantments. For PvP, warriors are definitely accepted far beyond a dervish. Not to mention, I deleted my dervish because it bored me to death. Even bought the damn thing primeval. I love melee classes, but dervish just blows. All my opinions of course. =]
As for the argument of warriors lacking good skills, you have no idea what you're talking about.
If you really want to use a scythe, go R/D. Those pack damage to me, for some reason or another. I fear them more than an actual dervish. you officially win the thread, and my heart.
Cherng Butter
[skill]Warrior's Endurance[/skill][skill]Eremite's Attack[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Protector's Strike[/skill]
Have fun.
I feel like the high armor and utility of the warrior is unsurpassed (+100 armor and Dragon Slash spamming? Earthshaker?), but I suppose Dervishes are better for damage tools in PvE...honestly I just realized that I've only ever grouped with a Dervish once in my guild wars career in PvE...
Have fun.
I feel like the high armor and utility of the warrior is unsurpassed (+100 armor and Dragon Slash spamming? Earthshaker?), but I suppose Dervishes are better for damage tools in PvE...honestly I just realized that I've only ever grouped with a Dervish once in my guild wars career in PvE...
Cherng Butter
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoyon456
My opinion:
Warriors are very boring to play, with simple hack and slash mechanics in PvE that make the game get boring quite easily. True, they do have 10 more AL, and an innate +20 AL to all physical damage, but the difference between a warrior's base 80 AL and a derv's base 70 is a 0.134 damage multiplier according to wiki. I won't compare the warrior's innate +20 to physical, because a derv has that extra +25 health. Forgot about the shield? 96 AL vs. 70 is significant.
Warriors are very boring to play, with simple hack and slash mechanics in PvE that make the game get boring quite easily. True, they do have 10 more AL, and an innate +20 AL to all physical damage, but the difference between a warrior's base 80 AL and a derv's base 70 is a 0.134 damage multiplier according to wiki. I won't compare the warrior's innate +20 to physical, because a derv has that extra +25 health. Forgot about the shield? 96 AL vs. 70 is significant.
Lady Raenef
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoyon456
My opinion:
Warriors are very boring to play, with simple hack and slash mechanics in PvE that make the game get boring quite easily. True, they do have 10 more AL, and an innate +20 AL to all physical damage, but the difference between a warrior's base 80 AL and a derv's base 70 is a 0.134 damage multiplier according to wiki. I won't compare the warrior's innate +20 to physical, because a derv has that extra +25 health. Over the course of how fast a warrior loses 25 hp over a dervish without a helping enchantment, there's no competition. Warrior can take more.
As for warriors being boring? Excuse me, I believe that's all in the opinion of the player. As I've stated before, this is one of the, if not, THEE most boring class in the game. I never particularly cared for caster (except monk) and have made a warrior, assassin, and dervish. The power of the warrior overall tops the other two melee classes. With the sheer output of faster damage, and more IAS abilities in-hand, this makes for a truly balanced. I ended up deleting my dervish, not for extra character slots either. I currently have 3/9 filled. Monk, warrior, assassin. =]
Somehow, a guy in a dress doesn't suit me as a melee character. Nor do I like being the only melee class being really affected by Backfire. So, when you buy any game, what do you get? Warriors. They're core. Original six core classes, ftw.
Warriors are very boring to play, with simple hack and slash mechanics in PvE that make the game get boring quite easily. True, they do have 10 more AL, and an innate +20 AL to all physical damage, but the difference between a warrior's base 80 AL and a derv's base 70 is a 0.134 damage multiplier according to wiki. I won't compare the warrior's innate +20 to physical, because a derv has that extra +25 health. Over the course of how fast a warrior loses 25 hp over a dervish without a helping enchantment, there's no competition. Warrior can take more.
As for warriors being boring? Excuse me, I believe that's all in the opinion of the player. As I've stated before, this is one of the, if not, THEE most boring class in the game. I never particularly cared for caster (except monk) and have made a warrior, assassin, and dervish. The power of the warrior overall tops the other two melee classes. With the sheer output of faster damage, and more IAS abilities in-hand, this makes for a truly balanced. I ended up deleting my dervish, not for extra character slots either. I currently have 3/9 filled. Monk, warrior, assassin. =]
Somehow, a guy in a dress doesn't suit me as a melee character. Nor do I like being the only melee class being really affected by Backfire. So, when you buy any game, what do you get? Warriors. They're core. Original six core classes, ftw.
shoyon456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
As for warriors being boring? Excuse me, I believe that's all in the opinion of the player.
Quote:
Somehow, a guy in a dress doesn't suit me as a melee character. Nor do I like being the only melee class being really affected by Backfire. So, when you buy any game, what do you get? Warriors. They're core. Original six core classes, ftw.
Typical and ignorant. The "zomg its a man in a dress" argument isn't an argument, its an excuse for not being comfortable with your sexual preference imo. In addition, your narrow-mindedness is appauling. If anet hadn't introduced new classes, much fewer people would be playing today, and we'd have even less diversity than there is now (and anet would be worse off).
Derv's own in the general dps department, whereas warriors can place a KD in a critical position or offer an adren spike.
Derv's own in the general dps department, whereas warriors can place a KD in a critical position or offer an adren spike.
birdfoot
@ OP:
Through Strength attribute, warriors gain sole access to a number of skills that increases health/armor and are unstrippable (e.g. Signet of Stamina, Endure/Defy Pain, Dolyak Signet); on top of having naturally high armor. Dervishes, on the other hand, depend too heavily on enchantments; if there are no enchantment strippers, a dervish can probably hold out better than a warrior. I think in PvE, a Warrior has better overall survivability than a Dervish but this will depend on how heavy enchantment stripping is in a given area and how a battle takes place to begin with (since almost nobody bothers to aggro mobs and tank nowadays).
Note: damage vs survivability is not taken into consideration here.
For damage consideration, I think they are generally about the same except for certain scenarios. Dervishes have natural effectiveness vs undead monsters through Mysticism which only they have proficiency in. Avatar of Lyssa, in addition, improves the damage-dealing ability of Dervishes. More importantly, Dervishes will have better options to deal AoE compared to Warriors when holding aggro.
Note: damage vs survivability is not taken into consideration here.
Playstyle-wise, while it might look like the main difference boiling down to playing a fully melee toon or a 'paladin-like' one which can cast spells and melee both effectively; it's alittle hard to comment since it's too different for all professions. I'll just bring up a few things that I can think of at the moment.
Looking at just the primary profession skills alone, warriors will be able to get slightly better proficiency in a wider array of weapon choices compared to dervishes since the latter only have Scythe Mastery. For warriors, they also have a couple of skills related to knockdown in Strength which are pretty good for chasing down kiting targets in HM PvE.
Both primary professions are quite proficient at applying conditions and are almost just as incompetent at condition removal (except that Dervishes have Avatar of Melandru to brag about).
Dervishes have better self-sustainability compared to warriors imo, due to better energy regeneration/management and healing options.
Lastly, just wanted to say that I'm comparing the primary professions alone as I find it way too complicated to factor in secondary profession options. I play mostly as a warrior as most of the titles are already on that toon.
Through Strength attribute, warriors gain sole access to a number of skills that increases health/armor and are unstrippable (e.g. Signet of Stamina, Endure/Defy Pain, Dolyak Signet); on top of having naturally high armor. Dervishes, on the other hand, depend too heavily on enchantments; if there are no enchantment strippers, a dervish can probably hold out better than a warrior. I think in PvE, a Warrior has better overall survivability than a Dervish but this will depend on how heavy enchantment stripping is in a given area and how a battle takes place to begin with (since almost nobody bothers to aggro mobs and tank nowadays).
Note: damage vs survivability is not taken into consideration here.
For damage consideration, I think they are generally about the same except for certain scenarios. Dervishes have natural effectiveness vs undead monsters through Mysticism which only they have proficiency in. Avatar of Lyssa, in addition, improves the damage-dealing ability of Dervishes. More importantly, Dervishes will have better options to deal AoE compared to Warriors when holding aggro.
Note: damage vs survivability is not taken into consideration here.
Playstyle-wise, while it might look like the main difference boiling down to playing a fully melee toon or a 'paladin-like' one which can cast spells and melee both effectively; it's alittle hard to comment since it's too different for all professions. I'll just bring up a few things that I can think of at the moment.
Looking at just the primary profession skills alone, warriors will be able to get slightly better proficiency in a wider array of weapon choices compared to dervishes since the latter only have Scythe Mastery. For warriors, they also have a couple of skills related to knockdown in Strength which are pretty good for chasing down kiting targets in HM PvE.
Both primary professions are quite proficient at applying conditions and are almost just as incompetent at condition removal (except that Dervishes have Avatar of Melandru to brag about
).Dervishes have better self-sustainability compared to warriors imo, due to better energy regeneration/management and healing options.
Lastly, just wanted to say that I'm comparing the primary professions alone as I find it way too complicated to factor in secondary profession options. I play mostly as a warrior as most of the titles are already on that toon.
Sirius-NZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
Dervishes mainly consisted of this: avatar, mystic regeneration, vital boon.
No good build uses mystic regen or vital boon. It's no wonder you didn't see them put out much DPS; they were the "omg these enchants let me ubertank" players.
It is much easier to make a crap Dervish than a crap Warrior though. (The W/Mo guys have special talent.)
It is much easier to make a crap Dervish than a crap Warrior though. (The W/Mo guys have special talent.)
ryanryanryan0310
Warrior........cause it's just fun.
Amnel Ithtirsol
Another Dervish vote here:
Pros:
You inflict huge amounts of damage while tanking ahead of your chosen H/H group. This is especially easy with the use of AoL and AoD, depending on the area. D/Mo with AoL, prot Spirit and Mystic Regen (8 in Earth) is basically the core of what you'll need to vanquish most areas. (Bring Splinter Weapon on one of your heroes, 14+ in Scythe mastery, spam your cheap scythe attacks and see the mobs fall...) With Mystic Regen used correctly, your self healing is sufficient in such a way that it removes some of the pressure off your monks - so they can focus heal other party members. You have to play smart though, plan your attacks and manage your energy. Enchantment removal can be a problem but with the +2 energy regen and high Mysticism you should be able to re-apply quickly.
D/any is also a good option for hardcore tanking, again with the additional armor of AoB, Mystic Regen + any appropriate skills form your chosen secondary, depending on the situation/area. As tank you are still not on the level of a warrior, but close enough to be effective in most situations.
Dervishes are more challenging to play correctly but it can also be more rewarding experience.
Cons:
Getting into PuGs. Your W primary will rarely find it difficult to get into groups for elite areas. Especially when also running Ursan Blessing. D primary might stand around a little longer before being invited...
(its getting better though. People may be starting to realise that the huge AoE damage dealing capabilities, self heal and better energy management of Dervishes negates the 10 (+ 20)Al armor deficit the class has compared to W. )
Energy management could be problematic for players new to the game.
W have more places to farm, if that's your thing. (If it is though you'll probably already have a monk...)
All classes have their strong and weak points. It's difficult to compare classes directly as a lot has to do with your play style.
For me, for PvE - Dervish FTW
Pros:
You inflict huge amounts of damage while tanking ahead of your chosen H/H group. This is especially easy with the use of AoL and AoD, depending on the area. D/Mo with AoL, prot Spirit and Mystic Regen (8 in Earth) is basically the core of what you'll need to vanquish most areas. (Bring Splinter Weapon on one of your heroes, 14+ in Scythe mastery, spam your cheap scythe attacks and see the mobs fall...) With Mystic Regen used correctly, your self healing is sufficient in such a way that it removes some of the pressure off your monks - so they can focus heal other party members. You have to play smart though, plan your attacks and manage your energy. Enchantment removal can be a problem but with the +2 energy regen and high Mysticism you should be able to re-apply quickly.
D/any is also a good option for hardcore tanking, again with the additional armor of AoB, Mystic Regen + any appropriate skills form your chosen secondary, depending on the situation/area. As tank you are still not on the level of a warrior, but close enough to be effective in most situations.
Dervishes are more challenging to play correctly but it can also be more rewarding experience.
Cons:
Getting into PuGs. Your W primary will rarely find it difficult to get into groups for elite areas. Especially when also running Ursan Blessing. D primary might stand around a little longer before being invited...
(its getting better though. People may be starting to realise that the huge AoE damage dealing capabilities, self heal and better energy management of Dervishes negates the 10 (+ 20)Al armor deficit the class has compared to W. )
Energy management could be problematic for players new to the game.
W have more places to farm, if that's your thing. (If it is though you'll probably already have a monk...)
All classes have their strong and weak points. It's difficult to compare classes directly as a lot has to do with your play style.
For me, for PvE - Dervish FTW
RotteN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiishii Momo
Warrior
Con's: Low versatility/adaptability, build diversity wait, WHAT ?
So you're realy claiming a class with 3 possible weapons, 140 skills of which 36 elite skills is less versatile and has less build diversity than a class with "only" 1 weapon and "only" 85 skills ( "only" 15 elites).
Seriously, what have you been smoking ?
Just because everyone and their mother on these forums worships the so called "godmode" build doesn't mean it's the only decent warrior build.
I'll pick playing warrior over dervish any day.
Con's: Low versatility/adaptability, build diversity wait, WHAT ?
So you're realy claiming a class with 3 possible weapons, 140 skills of which 36 elite skills is less versatile and has less build diversity than a class with "only" 1 weapon and "only" 85 skills ( "only" 15 elites).
Seriously, what have you been smoking ?
Just because everyone and their mother on these forums worships the so called "godmode" build doesn't mean it's the only decent warrior build.
I'll pick playing warrior over dervish any day.