Well I am in and out of the hig-end selling now and then and wanted to get everyone's opinion. So here is the question
What is better to accept when selling for >100K
Ectos
Cons -
1. Recently dropped in price seemed to stabalize around 3.5K
2. Another buff or nerf could make the price unstable again
Pros -
1. post nerf may cause the price to creep up steadily therby increasing you stored wealth
2. Long time currency
Z-Keys
Cons - New and demand/price may fluctuate making pricing unstable
Pros - so far seem fairly stable and demand is steady. *edited*
So do you take a risk banking on ectos going up or stay with the fairly new but stable z-keys?
Ectos verses Z-Keys
Johny bravo
jiggles
z-keys
1234
1234
Ghostcell
i think ecto will stay around the 3.5-4k mark from now on.
they can still be farmed quite easily, but not as many people are doing it now due to the nerf.
from the trades i have seen ecto still seem to be the main thing used.
i think in time we will see more trades w/ z keys though
they can still be farmed quite easily, but not as many people are doing it now due to the nerf.
from the trades i have seen ecto still seem to be the main thing used.
i think in time we will see more trades w/ z keys though
cgruber
Zkeys and don't accept less than 5k for them.
TheRaven
I prefer Z-Keys, but it's harder to trade in Z-keys. There aren't as many z-keys available ingame as ectos so that makes it tough to establish keys as a trading stable.
Really it's up to the seller and what he prefers. As a seller, you may like lockpicks and Z-keys so you accept those in trade. Another seller may be saving for fow armor and prefer ectos. Another may want a semi-rare minipet.
Ideally, the seller should list his preferences in the auction. If he doesn't then bids will most likely be in ectos since that's the established currency.
Really it's up to the seller and what he prefers. As a seller, you may like lockpicks and Z-keys so you accept those in trade. Another seller may be saving for fow armor and prefer ectos. Another may want a semi-rare minipet.
Ideally, the seller should list his preferences in the auction. If he doesn't then bids will most likely be in ectos since that's the established currency.
godsie
not sure from your thread whether Z keys are stable or unstable as the pro's/cons seem to contradict each other
I have been using ectos still myself
I have been using ectos still myself
R.Shayne
Neither. Price is going to drop on both of these; it is just how the game is played.
Lock picks - 1250g (or 1200 if you have access to a Faction Outpost)
Pro: Easy to get, go to kamadan District 1. Someone is selling Lock picks in large quantities there all the time. (The might even cut a deal if you buy a 100k)
Pro: Price does not vary that much (might find someone selling the odd lock pick for less but not often).
Pro: Can easily be turned back into gold since a constant demand for lock picks.
Cons: ???
Even better option would be to remove the stupid trade limit.
Lock picks - 1250g (or 1200 if you have access to a Faction Outpost)
Pro: Easy to get, go to kamadan District 1. Someone is selling Lock picks in large quantities there all the time. (The might even cut a deal if you buy a 100k)
Pro: Price does not vary that much (might find someone selling the odd lock pick for less but not often).
Pro: Can easily be turned back into gold since a constant demand for lock picks.
Cons: ???
Even better option would be to remove the stupid trade limit.
TheDragonmaster
I prefer pure gold and armbraces... they are fairly stable in price at about 150k each, so they can cover all transactions above 100k...
...and, to explain for people who don't understand how to cover, for example, a 125k transaction with just gold and armbraces, the buyer (who pays) pays with an armbrace, and the seller puts the sold item along with 25k in the trade window... the only problem lies in the fact that people sometimes need to buy armbraces to fuel that economy...
...alternatively, pay with only gold for 100k+ auctions using an intermediary step. Example: The buyer is supposed to pay 500k for an item. The buyer first buys 100 Zkeys from the seller in 5 trades. The buyer then trades the newly bought Zkeys for the item. This system requires an intermediary currency unit such as the Zkey or ecto, but is fairly indepenent on the value of the currency in question...
EDIT: Oh, and as the person above me said, Lockpicks are wonderful at 1200-1250 each... only problem is that you need so many... but then again, who doesn't need hundreds and hundreds of lockpicks for all the HM and EotN treasure hunter grinding?
...and, to explain for people who don't understand how to cover, for example, a 125k transaction with just gold and armbraces, the buyer (who pays) pays with an armbrace, and the seller puts the sold item along with 25k in the trade window... the only problem lies in the fact that people sometimes need to buy armbraces to fuel that economy...
...alternatively, pay with only gold for 100k+ auctions using an intermediary step. Example: The buyer is supposed to pay 500k for an item. The buyer first buys 100 Zkeys from the seller in 5 trades. The buyer then trades the newly bought Zkeys for the item. This system requires an intermediary currency unit such as the Zkey or ecto, but is fairly indepenent on the value of the currency in question...
EDIT: Oh, and as the person above me said, Lockpicks are wonderful at 1200-1250 each... only problem is that you need so many... but then again, who doesn't need hundreds and hundreds of lockpicks for all the HM and EotN treasure hunter grinding?
fenix
If Anet are smart and fix SF properly, then ecto will rise again. Till then, I'm staying away from trading. I'll stick to my armbraces thanks.
Jetdoc
Personally, I wouldn't bank on either. If you're worried about wealth preservation, I would seriously look at lockpicks. Although their price floor doesn't provide that much comfort (i.e. being 40% or so lower than the current going rate), at least they have a floor compared to where ectos and/or zaishen keys COULD go.
So, if you're investing for the long-term, lockpicks are a better investment.
Short-term, I'd heavily consider ectos over ZKeys...ZKeys have the possibility of taking a quick nosedive, while ectos probably won't fluctuate anywhere near another 1K drop anytime soon.
So, if you're investing for the long-term, lockpicks are a better investment.
Short-term, I'd heavily consider ectos over ZKeys...ZKeys have the possibility of taking a quick nosedive, while ectos probably won't fluctuate anywhere near another 1K drop anytime soon.
Artisan Archer
when did the z-keys take a nose dive?
Xunlai Guru Agent
I personally prefer Zkeys over Ectospasms.
bobrath
Why is there potential for a Zkey nose dive? Only a massive increase in supply would do that (or an even more unlikely decrease in demand). Unless Zkeys start dropping from monsters, I don't see that supply jumping suddenly.... So what do you see that I'm missing?
imnotyourmother
My two cents,
Well I have never used either one to trade with. I do know that the ecto's price has fallen drastically. Black Dye for some reason never comes up as a means for trading and it's value has steadily increased to over 8K at the trader now.
In presearing there is not choice but to do the black dye as thee is no traders there.
I do like the idea of the lockpicks though. 1200 is a very fair price. You can farm them but not that fast that is for sure. I could get one for every 100 snow wurms that I kill in GW:EN so that is about 1 an hour.
Well I have never used either one to trade with. I do know that the ecto's price has fallen drastically. Black Dye for some reason never comes up as a means for trading and it's value has steadily increased to over 8K at the trader now.
In presearing there is not choice but to do the black dye as thee is no traders there.
I do like the idea of the lockpicks though. 1200 is a very fair price. You can farm them but not that fast that is for sure. I could get one for every 100 snow wurms that I kill in GW:EN so that is about 1 an hour.
cgruber
zkeys wont nose dive. You can't farm them unless you consider 1 a day in Zaishen elite farming. There's a lot less Pvp players than PvE, the supply is just less unless something drastically changes they are going to remain much more valuable than ectos and the only people that say otherwise are the ones sitting on stacks of ectos.
Johny bravo
I have always wondered why lockpicks haven't caught on as a trading alternative as there is little arguement over price 1200-1250. The only con is the limited of items in a trade window, still you can get 1.8M+ so should cover most trades.
Right now I am wondering if I should gamble on Ectos creeping up or not. I have a minipets I am looking to ditch that will get me a few stacks of ectos or keys. If ectos creep up to 4-4.5 it could be quite an investment.
Another thing on the z-keys is that more of them are probably consumed then ectos keeping the availability rate stable and therefore the price. As pointed out above there is no way to farm them in mass quantity like ectos aside from PvE which is a lot slower unless you can hold halls for hours. Wonder what is going to happen when they do their first double zaishen point weekend.
Right now I am wondering if I should gamble on Ectos creeping up or not. I have a minipets I am looking to ditch that will get me a few stacks of ectos or keys. If ectos creep up to 4-4.5 it could be quite an investment.
Another thing on the z-keys is that more of them are probably consumed then ectos keeping the availability rate stable and therefore the price. As pointed out above there is no way to farm them in mass quantity like ectos aside from PvE which is a lot slower unless you can hold halls for hours. Wonder what is going to happen when they do their first double zaishen point weekend.
evilseabass
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bobrath
Why is there potential for a Zkey nose dive? Only a massive increase in supply would do that (or an even more unlikely decrease in demand). Unless Zkeys start dropping from monsters, I don't see that supply jumping suddenly.... So what do you see that I'm missing?
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Its the same principle they are using here. These players want to cause 2 things to happen: They have stockpiles of Ecto saved up, and they want the value to go back up. secondly, they want the price of zkeys to go down so that they can buy more of them...
on topic, I would say of the 2 choices, ecto or zkeys, zkeys are the safer bet. Since the zaishen title came out, zkeys have been steady at around 5k, which is a fair price. In effect, this puts an actual value on faction; 1 platinum per 1k of balthazar faction. I dont see that changing anytime soon, but I'm no economics guru, so I could be wrong...
Zeff Nut
The challenge with using Z-keys as a trading medium is they are not readily available, yes, you can buy them from players, some ppl may even have a lot of them (a stack perhaps?) but there is no trader for them so a person is required to sit in a town, possibly even visit a few to find a seller, could be time consuming and many just want to be able to get whatever they need and move on without sitting around spamming WTB... When it comes to ectos and lockpicks, they are readily available at any time, always people selling large quantities of each and if you are one who doesn't want to deal with other players, a quick trip to a trader in most towns and you're set up with whatever you need. Eg: Yesterday I was buying a mini and was 8 ectos short of agreed price, well if I had of needed Z-keys, would have had to leave town, go search them out, wait for seller, trade, and hope mini was was still available. As it was, just ran 40 steps to trader, 30secs later had ectos and mini was mine, convenience is also something to take into consideration.
carnage-runner
[quote=evilseabass]They are just trying to spread fear into the market about zkeys, to keep it from becoming a currency. They are like the Oil speculators in real life, who are responsible for the sky-high prices we are paying right now. quote]
For starters you're a lunatic. Spreading fear? No one is disagreeing with Z-Keys... If you look at the statements they all state negatives and pros of each respective trade item. There are cons to everything. Lock Picks are worth too little to make them a good tool for trading.. Think Obsidian Shards. Zaishen Keys are suspect to fluxuation because of the relative instability in volume. Ecto is suspect to fluxuation because of the steady decrease in demand. Lock Picks and Ecto however are in high volume all the time. Zaishen Keys are in low volume all the time. This makes them more susceptable to volatile price shifts. It's simple economics dude, not scare tactics. Do some research.
For starters you're a lunatic. Spreading fear? No one is disagreeing with Z-Keys... If you look at the statements they all state negatives and pros of each respective trade item. There are cons to everything. Lock Picks are worth too little to make them a good tool for trading.. Think Obsidian Shards. Zaishen Keys are suspect to fluxuation because of the relative instability in volume. Ecto is suspect to fluxuation because of the steady decrease in demand. Lock Picks and Ecto however are in high volume all the time. Zaishen Keys are in low volume all the time. This makes them more susceptable to volatile price shifts. It's simple economics dude, not scare tactics. Do some research.
Ate of DK
I'm not playing this game to buy skins that cost 100K+E/zK.
I love PvP and spend all keys myself for the fun of getting something nice.
But I would never buy expensive skins/minipets or other stuff.
I couldn't care less about what would be better to trade.
I love PvP and spend all keys myself for the fun of getting something nice.
But I would never buy expensive skins/minipets or other stuff.
I couldn't care less about what would be better to trade.
lethalshot
I will risk on the ecto.
Why? I don't know.
I do trade for zkeys but my problem is, whenever I have like 10-20zkeys, I used them...
Why? I don't know.
I do trade for zkeys but my problem is, whenever I have like 10-20zkeys, I used them...
Rieden Sindefy
Black Dye:
Pro: Randon Drop, un-farmable
Pro: Still a large demand
Pro: Is worth more than lock picks
Pro: I don't see any nerf changing the pricing on these
Cons:????
Pro: Randon Drop, un-farmable
Pro: Still a large demand
Pro: Is worth more than lock picks
Pro: I don't see any nerf changing the pricing on these
Cons:????
Quaker
My 2 cents:
I don't see that it really matters what you use to trade with. You can always convert what you trade to gold and then buy whatever it is you use for "long term" storage. (Personally, I don't see the point in keeping large amounts of gold, unless there is some particular high-end item you want to buy. GW gold is like real gold - you really can't take it with you - not even to GW2.)
For example, if someone wanted to buy something from me using Z-keys, I would accept them and sell them as quickly as possible and then buy ectos (to store until I get enough to buy yet another set of FoW armor.) or lockpicks, or shards, or whatever stacks nicely. I the long run, it is only play money - it doesn't really matter if it fluctuates, in the greater scheme of the universe, and as I said, I see no point in hording it.
Btw, I think Z-keys would be a very bad long term investment. Unlike ectos or any other item available at traders, they have no reference value. Their value is basically based upon the possible value of what you might get out of a Z-chest. What you can get out of a Z-chest (or any other chest), and what people would want, can change without notice. Perma-tonics are one of the items-du-jour that people will pay big bucks for, but it could just as easily be something new tomorrow.
I don't see that it really matters what you use to trade with. You can always convert what you trade to gold and then buy whatever it is you use for "long term" storage. (Personally, I don't see the point in keeping large amounts of gold, unless there is some particular high-end item you want to buy. GW gold is like real gold - you really can't take it with you - not even to GW2.)
For example, if someone wanted to buy something from me using Z-keys, I would accept them and sell them as quickly as possible and then buy ectos (to store until I get enough to buy yet another set of FoW armor.) or lockpicks, or shards, or whatever stacks nicely. I the long run, it is only play money - it doesn't really matter if it fluctuates, in the greater scheme of the universe, and as I said, I see no point in hording it.
Btw, I think Z-keys would be a very bad long term investment. Unlike ectos or any other item available at traders, they have no reference value. Their value is basically based upon the possible value of what you might get out of a Z-chest. What you can get out of a Z-chest (or any other chest), and what people would want, can change without notice. Perma-tonics are one of the items-du-jour that people will pay big bucks for, but it could just as easily be something new tomorrow.
R.Shayne
Quote:
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Originally Posted by evilseabass
on topic, I would say of the 2 choices, ecto or zkeys, zkeys are the safer bet. Since the zaishen title came out, zkeys have been steady at around 5k, which is a fair price. In effect, this puts an actual value on faction; 1 platinum per 1k of balthazar faction. I dont see that changing anytime soon, but I'm no economics guru, so I could be wrong...
|
In this game the new wears off of everything and the price comes down. I have seen Black Dye going at 15k, ecto for 20k, and Superior Vigor 100k. Supply and demand, it really is that simple.
Right now Z-keys are going good (4.5k to 5k) because there is a demand. Now eventually someone will max the title and they will stop buying them and may start selling them, then another player will max the title and the will stop buying them, and so on. Eventually the demand related to the title will be gone and the only people buying z-keys will those that like to gamble on the z-chest. Hopefully price will never drop that low since some people will still be working on the title. When will this happen, no telling, my guess would be we will see a steady decline in 4 - 6 months. I don’t foresee an actually price noise dive until GW2 comes out and we have a mass existed of GW1. At that time I am predicting demand for everything from Ecto to Z-keys will not exist. The actually reward for the HoM may affect this too but judging by pass stuff like Pre-order or bonus packs I don’t see ANET giving out anything breath taking as a reward for completing these titles.
Simple answer; Short term Z-Keys (do not horde them), Long Term = Lock Picks, and forget about Ecto the demand will never be there again (I just find it so funny on July 2nd how many people rushed to buy ecto speculating the price would rise).
Snow Bunny
I'd say Zkeys if everyone wasn't terrified of using them in trade. Personally, I currently use them in trade sort of as 5k dollar bills.
Not to mention, that even if Ecto stabilised at 3.5, the math for 5 is simply easier than 3.5
But that's me.
Not to mention, that even if Ecto stabilised at 3.5, the math for 5 is simply easier than 3.5
But that's me.
imnotyourmother
Um black dye? is this still an option and if so do people still trade in them? I know that they are a rare drop and I have only had about 5 of them drop for me since I started a long time ago.
I do not nor have I ever had even one ecto but I have had keys, Lots of them. In LA to get a stack of keys is really easy. There are several people even doing it at the 1200 rate. I got banned once for thanking him on this site as a matter of a fact. He does the service for free.
At the Current exchange rate for Black dye at the trader 8k or something like that you could trade 12 Mil gold in one fell swoop. That is twice as much as as ectos
I do not nor have I ever had even one ecto but I have had keys, Lots of them. In LA to get a stack of keys is really easy. There are several people even doing it at the 1200 rate. I got banned once for thanking him on this site as a matter of a fact. He does the service for free.
At the Current exchange rate for Black dye at the trader 8k or something like that you could trade 12 Mil gold in one fell swoop. That is twice as much as as ectos
Jetdoc
Regarding the "nose dive" comments, I don't think anyone would argue that ZKeys are probably not worth their price at the moment when you look at the drops you get (e.g. take a look at the Post Your Zaishen Drops here thread). Their price continues to be high primarily due to (1) "lottery" players; (2) title seekers and (3) their relative "newness" to the game. Eventually, the mathematics related to the chest (along with the continued devaluation of everything save a few isolated items) will catch up to the price, and the price will fall.
We really haven't seen that yet as the ZChest is still relatively new to the game. I've been eerily on target related to previous market fluctuations (especially related to ectos over the past two years), so I think I have a little cause to be wary of ZKeys at the moment.
And no, I don't have any ectos or lockpicks in storage, so I'm not trying to "game" the ZKey market at all (I actually spent all my wealth on Creme Brulees this past festival - hahahaha).
We really haven't seen that yet as the ZChest is still relatively new to the game. I've been eerily on target related to previous market fluctuations (especially related to ectos over the past two years), so I think I have a little cause to be wary of ZKeys at the moment.
And no, I don't have any ectos or lockpicks in storage, so I'm not trying to "game" the ZKey market at all (I actually spent all my wealth on Creme Brulees this past festival - hahahaha).
Johny bravo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ate of DK
I'm not playing this game to buy skins that cost 100K+E/zK.
I love PvP and spend all keys myself for the fun of getting something nice. But I would never buy expensive skins/minipets or other stuff. I couldn't care less about what would be better to trade. |
"+1 12 chars1234"
of course inadvertantly you did make a point. Because people use them for titles and hopes to get items it should keep their volume failrly low compared to ectos which are not as widely used (choas gloves and FoW) even them you are only talking not even a stack.
Low volume does lead to volatility. Also some good points on availability, it is definately easier to pick up a 20 ectos or lockpicks VS 20 Z-keys
By the way is that now the most expensive title in the game?
100,000p thats insane that like
80,000 lockpicks or
28,572 ecto or
666 armbraces @150K ea thats just plain evil
-rightuos-
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rieden Sindefy
Black Dye:
Pro: Randon Drop, un-farmable Pro: Still a large demand Pro: Is worth more than lock picks Pro: I don't see any nerf changing the pricing on these Cons:???? |
Rieden Sindefy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by -rightuos-
they also hold up value during double dye drop rate weekends
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--------->more demand
I'm going to start trading things for cash + x black dyes and see what people say.
Kanyatta
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bobrath
Why is there potential for a Zkey nose dive? Only a massive increase in supply would do that (or an even more unlikely decrease in demand). Unless Zkeys start dropping from monsters, I don't see that supply jumping suddenly.... So what do you see that I'm missing?
|
I must say, I kind of agree with them, I mean, if there are noobs who will sell for 4.5k, why not try to buy from them.
To me, ZKeys are worth 5k apiece, if not, more. I don't sell for less than that. I usually get all my keys sold within 10 minutes anyway.
ReZDoGG
Ecto's are still easier to farm than Zkeys, so Ecto's can bring in better money for people that play PvE.
The last Nerf for Shadow Form didn't do sh*t to ecto farmers, and prices never went up like people wanted when they cried about nerfing Shadow Form. I am personally pissed off at the Shadow Form nerf, it killed all farming for Sins outside UW. It pretty much forces people into UW to farm ectos because that would be the only way to make money with Assassin's. To me that is a pretty big failure on nerfin the game to try to bring ecto prices back up. If they would have left Shadow Form alone, and only changed Chaos Fields, maybe then people would farm other places than just UW all the time. I was farming alot outside of UW before that nerf using A/E Sliver, and was quite fun to farm areas most other builds can't and get the job done fairly quick. But now... I don't farm at all with Sin's unless I want to farm Ectos, does that make sense? I mean farming outside UW was hard enough to make money and profit from, but now that they killed that, it is going to force Assassin farmers into UW. /fail. I don't think there was any reason at all to nerf Shadow Form, it would have made no difference on ECto prices, unless it actually made people farm other places, then it would of helped ecto prices by not nerfing Shadow Form.
I'd say, TAKE OFF THE 50% DMG REDUCTION FROM SHADOWFORM! AND GIVE US BACK SOME OTHER WAYS TO MAKE MONEY INSTEAD OF ONLY FARMING UW!! I have actually been waitin for them to change it back, but seems they won't be. I have a huge guide on farming with A/E sliver, and now it is pretty much useless cause all the farms for sliver are pretty much nerfed if you use Shadow Form. Sh*tty F*cking deal.
The last Nerf for Shadow Form didn't do sh*t to ecto farmers, and prices never went up like people wanted when they cried about nerfing Shadow Form. I am personally pissed off at the Shadow Form nerf, it killed all farming for Sins outside UW. It pretty much forces people into UW to farm ectos because that would be the only way to make money with Assassin's. To me that is a pretty big failure on nerfin the game to try to bring ecto prices back up. If they would have left Shadow Form alone, and only changed Chaos Fields, maybe then people would farm other places than just UW all the time. I was farming alot outside of UW before that nerf using A/E Sliver, and was quite fun to farm areas most other builds can't and get the job done fairly quick. But now... I don't farm at all with Sin's unless I want to farm Ectos, does that make sense? I mean farming outside UW was hard enough to make money and profit from, but now that they killed that, it is going to force Assassin farmers into UW. /fail. I don't think there was any reason at all to nerf Shadow Form, it would have made no difference on ECto prices, unless it actually made people farm other places, then it would of helped ecto prices by not nerfing Shadow Form.
I'd say, TAKE OFF THE 50% DMG REDUCTION FROM SHADOWFORM! AND GIVE US BACK SOME OTHER WAYS TO MAKE MONEY INSTEAD OF ONLY FARMING UW!! I have actually been waitin for them to change it back, but seems they won't be. I have a huge guide on farming with A/E sliver, and now it is pretty much useless cause all the farms for sliver are pretty much nerfed if you use Shadow Form. Sh*tty F*cking deal.
DokkyDok
Quote:
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Originally Posted by R.Shayne
Neither. Price is going to drop on both of these; it is just how the game is played.
Lock picks - 1250g (or 1200 if you have access to a Faction Outpost) Pro: Easy to get, go to kamadan District 1. Someone is selling Lock picks in large quantities there all the time. (The might even cut a deal if you buy a 100k) Pro: Price does not vary that much (might find someone selling the odd lock pick for less but not often). Pro: Can easily be turned back into gold since a constant demand for lock picks. Cons: ??? Even better option would be to remove the stupid trade limit. |
Calista Blackblood
z keys >ecto
almost constant 4.5-5k
dont require farming if you get them the smart way
lag isnt an issue
ectos
you lag, you die
spend hours farming for 100s then prices plummet to 3.1k
almost constant 4.5-5k
dont require farming if you get them the smart way
lag isnt an issue
ectos
you lag, you die
spend hours farming for 100s then prices plummet to 3.1k
romeus petrus
Clearly ectos. Other than the fact they are long time currency, the only way the price can go from where they are now is up. Anet would be insane to buff [Shadow Form], and a nerf is not that unlikely, ie no more downward trend for the ecto prices.
newbie_of_doom
I think ectos will increase in price slowly to like 4.5, so zkeys will stil be teh win win win win!
Nobody accepts them tho, while they're so much easier to sell than ectos, to people that is.
Maybe we need a zkey trader!!!!
Nobody accepts them tho, while they're so much easier to sell than ectos, to people that is.
Maybe we need a zkey trader!!!!