This may be in the wrong forum, but it needs to be noted.
There is a gimmick being "exploited" with [Glyph of immolation] and [Steam]
Read the description and you can obviously see the problem when someone casts glyph then casts steam on someone to cause blindness.
There are 2 problems here. The way Steam reads, blindness is "caused" by casting on a target foe that is "on" fire. The problem is in the fact that Immolation says is "spells" cause burning.
The webster's dictionary states:
Cause: something that brings about an effect or a result
Which would mean that immolation is setting someone on fire before the cause should take place at the end of the spell.
This is a gimmick build that needs to be fixed or reworded so it is apparent to all that this is attainable.
In my eyes the skills are acting backwards from one another and it is a cheaper way of getting blind condition than [Signet of Midnight]
Request for a skill fix!!!
Puddin Cheeks
Brimstonez
Agreed.
I'm seeing more people exploiting this everyday...
I'm seeing more people exploiting this everyday...
Murmel
The blinding occurs because the burning of [glyph of immolation]
happens before [steam]
Think, I read it on wiki... Not sure but think it's there.
Edit: Yep HERE it is.
happens before [steam]
Think, I read it on wiki... Not sure but think it's there.
Edit: Yep HERE it is.
Snow Bunny
The way game mechanics work, the Burning is applied first because of glyph of immolation. The actual spell's going-through causes burning; so as soon as the spell gets put "on the stack" (mtg terminology) the burning is triggered.
The blinding condition gets met as well as it's a secondary effect.
It's not an exploit.
The blinding condition gets met as well as it's a secondary effect.
It's not an exploit.
MisterT69
Yeah...and it's totally not counterable, omg what to do... [reversal of fortune][mending touch] crap... /exploit fail
Jetdoc
Definitely a neat combo, and probably not what's intended by the Devs.
Looks like Water Elementalists now have a leg up on Air Elementalists in the blinding category...
Looks like Water Elementalists now have a leg up on Air Elementalists in the blinding category...
Sarevok Thordin
These guys are as bad as SoM messers now.
Except these guys have RANGE.
Except these guys have RANGE.
aapo
Well Earthen Shackles is even more broken. 17 seconds of 90% slowdown, which can be kept up indefinitely.
ajc2123
Not an exploit, the glyph causes burning which causes the blind afterwards anyways so by the description, yes, the target is burning by the time the blind effect has time to activate. 2 skill combos can be counters by dis easily too so just leave it as is.
Most likely if you see this glyph just spam an interrupt almost right after its cast, then the steam is totally countered. Unless you are facing an experienced opponent, in which they are allowed to use combos such as these.
Nothing wrong with it. Lets not have people have to use mark of rodgort to use steam now >_>
Also earthen shackles is a hex,, therefore can be removed, and requires burning, which needs some attention which can also be removed, not to mention the 2 second cast and 10 energy is slightly large for a slowing hex which requires a condition to even be in any affect whatsoever. Water line still pwns with slowing hexes pretty much. Its effect is pretty balanced, or even too needy for the effect so its not broken.
Lets fix assassins so they are not limited to 3 builds which will probably also get nerfed, and ritualists whose primary attribute is the worst in game. THEN work on the fleshy eles.
Most likely if you see this glyph just spam an interrupt almost right after its cast, then the steam is totally countered. Unless you are facing an experienced opponent, in which they are allowed to use combos such as these.
Nothing wrong with it. Lets not have people have to use mark of rodgort to use steam now >_>
Also earthen shackles is a hex,, therefore can be removed, and requires burning, which needs some attention which can also be removed, not to mention the 2 second cast and 10 energy is slightly large for a slowing hex which requires a condition to even be in any affect whatsoever. Water line still pwns with slowing hexes pretty much. Its effect is pretty balanced, or even too needy for the effect so its not broken.
Lets fix assassins so they are not limited to 3 builds which will probably also get nerfed, and ritualists whose primary attribute is the worst in game. THEN work on the fleshy eles.
Mourne
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
These guys are as bad as SoM messers now.
Except these guys have RANGE. |
[Glyph of Immolation] + [Steam] doesn't keep 2 people permablind now does it?
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ajc
Lets fix assassins so they are not limited to 3 builds which will probably also get nerfed, and ritualists whose primary attribute is the worst in game. THEN work on the fleshy eles.
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SurareVaera
I've been using this since GW:EN came out and it is certainly not an exploit. Necro's use Glyph of Immolation with Virulence or Discord and Mesmers can take advantage of the glyph with Fragility. Assassin teleport gankers were so abusive before the recent aftercast change. I got immense satisfaction hitting them with steam at the edge of teleport range. While the stupid assassins would blindly spam 1,2,3,4,5 after a teleport, you could just snare them and finish them with Shatterstone.
I think the Shatterstone Ele with Freezing Gust or Shard Storm + Glyph of Immo and Steam is one of the more versatile PvP templates for elementalists, a profession that doesn't see much play in TA or GvG now due to cast times. Abusive templates like the Me/N Sig of Midnight + Plague Sending Mesmer, R/P Enraged Lunge Beastmaster, Escape Scythe Ranger, Wounding Strike Dervish, Rampage As One Axe Ranger or Thumper require far less skillful play than an Ele that can split or thwart spikes. Finally, the Steam Ele can't keep two people permablind like a SoM Mesmer.
As a ranger playing these fast cast water Me/E's you can treat them like signet of illusion mesmers. Just count to 3 spells and d-shot glyph (50/50 with blurred) - it's not nearly as bad as Signet of Midnight Mesmers that can dance around their touch targets. Glyph of Immolation is just a giant bull's eye. If you're complaining as a melee character, they just buffed antidote signet (burning is applied first, antidote will remove blind). Bring that or mending touch and stop the QQ. With monks and necro's packing draw and foul feast, one steam ele can't possibly pose a huge problem.
You have 2 chances to interrupt the combo, once with steam and once if you get glyph (which can't be fast casted with a mesmer or a 40/40 set).
The cast time for steam is 1 sec vs. 3/4 for b-surge.
The recharge for steam is 8 seconds, double that of b-surge.
Many of the skills in this thread are far more broken.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10307960
I think the Shatterstone Ele with Freezing Gust or Shard Storm + Glyph of Immo and Steam is one of the more versatile PvP templates for elementalists, a profession that doesn't see much play in TA or GvG now due to cast times. Abusive templates like the Me/N Sig of Midnight + Plague Sending Mesmer, R/P Enraged Lunge Beastmaster, Escape Scythe Ranger, Wounding Strike Dervish, Rampage As One Axe Ranger or Thumper require far less skillful play than an Ele that can split or thwart spikes. Finally, the Steam Ele can't keep two people permablind like a SoM Mesmer.
As a ranger playing these fast cast water Me/E's you can treat them like signet of illusion mesmers. Just count to 3 spells and d-shot glyph (50/50 with blurred) - it's not nearly as bad as Signet of Midnight Mesmers that can dance around their touch targets. Glyph of Immolation is just a giant bull's eye. If you're complaining as a melee character, they just buffed antidote signet (burning is applied first, antidote will remove blind). Bring that or mending touch and stop the QQ. With monks and necro's packing draw and foul feast, one steam ele can't possibly pose a huge problem.
You have 2 chances to interrupt the combo, once with steam and once if you get glyph (which can't be fast casted with a mesmer or a 40/40 set).
The cast time for steam is 1 sec vs. 3/4 for b-surge.
The recharge for steam is 8 seconds, double that of b-surge.
Many of the skills in this thread are far more broken.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10307960
TwinRaven
It works as intended: REQUEST DENIED
..glyph first, Steam second (meeting conditional "spell"). There is no way that Steam can fire off after the glyph calculates effect or ignore the glyph for three seconds to no effect. Think of it as a math problem with an order of operations...if steam is a spell that causes burning and burning causes blindness, then the spell must cause blindness.
..glyph first, Steam second (meeting conditional "spell"). There is no way that Steam can fire off after the glyph calculates effect or ignore the glyph for three seconds to no effect. Think of it as a math problem with an order of operations...if steam is a spell that causes burning and burning causes blindness, then the spell must cause blindness.
ajc2123
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Can't we just kill them, Paragons and Dervs? 'Sins don't need a fix, they need a proper berial.
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The first mistake was making a class that could kill in seconds even though they never wanted such a thing >_>
aapo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ajc2123
Also earthen shackles is a hex,, therefore can be removed, and requires burning, which needs some attention which can also be removed, not to mention the 2 second cast and 10 energy is slightly large for a slowing hex which requires a condition to even be in any affect whatsoever. Water line still pwns with slowing hexes pretty much. Its effect is pretty balanced, or even too needy for the effect so its not broken.
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rayd
It's called game mechanics, not exploits.
SurareVaera
The burning from glyph only lasts for 3 seconds. Unless you are continually casting on one target, you won't get 90% movement reduction for the full duration of Earthen Shackles. Earthen Shackles will never see competitive play with a 2 second cast time (4 seconds under veil). The skill is too conditional and only works in RA or AB where you may not encounter hex removal, condition removal or interrupts, any of which would make Earthen Shackles fail epic hard. Besides the only good skill in the Earth Magic line is Grasping Earth, which is a hell of a lot better at snaring than Earthen Shackles will ever be for a cheaper cost, quicker cast time, and better recharge with an AoE effect.
Spazzer
[Glyph of Immolation] [Virulence]
omfg it's like free -a million degen
Glyph of Immolation is fun, but really there's not so much you can use with it outside of that one 90% snare (guy above me covers it) and steam.
[edit] also, [Glyph of Immolation] [Epidemic] works but i can't think why it would see use
omfg it's like free -a million degen
Glyph of Immolation is fun, but really there's not so much you can use with it outside of that one 90% snare (guy above me covers it) and steam.
[edit] also, [Glyph of Immolation] [Epidemic] works but i can't think why it would see use
bhavv
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aapo
- Don't you get it? Burning comes from Glyph of Immolation (which you can use at 0 Fire Magic) so that you only need to cast it before Earthen Shackles. Earthen Shackles lasts twice as long as the elite hex Icy Shackles. With snares covered, Earth Magic is much better line to invest in for team games. Are you now saying it's completely fine for every Warrior, Mesmer, Ranger to take both condition and hex removal for themselves in Random Arenas to avoid obvious death?
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And Immo and Steam is completely fine as it is. It takes 10 seconds in between each blind if you count 8s recharge on steam plus 1s cast of both immo and Steam. You use mending touch, and you have 9 seconds left to attack the elly. Interupts also work well against them, even dazed.
Blindness is no where near as overpowered as dazed is, if you cant deal with it, then learn how to instead of asking for fixes.
uzumaki
this combo pisses me off ~ on a ele its fine and easily interruptable but on a mesmer with 14 fc ... /sigh
i think the blind duration is imba should be reduced to 6 like b flash with 14 in spec
i think the blind duration is imba should be reduced to 6 like b flash with 14 in spec
Spazzer
I think the mesmer has better options to blind people than using this combination with 14 fc tbh.
However, people were talking about Glyph at 0 fire. I think it's optimal at 8 fire whenever possible, as this is the minimum to get the 3 casts, 3 seconds ability.
However, people were talking about Glyph at 0 fire. I think it's optimal at 8 fire whenever possible, as this is the minimum to get the 3 casts, 3 seconds ability.
Dr Strangelove
I really don't see the problem. It effectively has a 2s cast time and an 8s recharge. It's significantly harder to catch spikes with it, can only keep one person permablind, requires two skill slots and two attribute lines. It's a solid combo, but nowhere near overpowered.
I suppose you could run it on a mesmer, but the steep att. requirement means you sacrifice a lot of utility. I don't know if it's possible to squeeze dom stuff on that bar, which would make it similar to the old bsurge mesmers. I have no clue why you'd want to run a 14fc 12 water mesmer, especially when signet of midnight exists.
I suppose you could run it on a mesmer, but the steep att. requirement means you sacrifice a lot of utility. I don't know if it's possible to squeeze dom stuff on that bar, which would make it similar to the old bsurge mesmers. I have no clue why you'd want to run a 14fc 12 water mesmer, especially when signet of midnight exists.
Kanyatta
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Earthen Shackles doesnt last as long as you think. With 0 fire magic and immo glyph, you will be snared for 1 second per spell.
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On topic: Yeah, it's a bit OP, but it's got nothing on SoM, as others have mentioned. The only advantage this has is it's ranged. Also, Ebon Dust Aura is way more powerful than this combo. It's nothing to get your knickers in a bunch about.
ajc2123
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Earthen Shackles doesnt last as long as you think. With 0 fire magic and immo glyph, you will be snared for 1 second per spell. Even at higher ranks, burning only lasts for a few seconds, and all you need to counter a hex which relies on burning is a monk. If you do RA, it is far better for you to take a self heal and condition remover like mending touch for yourself to deal with condition pressure.
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Siirius Black
Lol. The glip is working the way is supposed to work. I dont see a problem here.
Puddin Cheeks
I see it this way, blind to melee = daze to casters.
Blind is much more easily doable than daze, end of story.
The whole point of it being a gimmick, which it is makes it all the more frustrating.
Give us a gimmick to keep daze up indefinitely and then we'll see the QQ change hands.
Thx, for all for all of the feedback.
Blind is much more easily doable than daze, end of story.
The whole point of it being a gimmick, which it is makes it all the more frustrating.
Give us a gimmick to keep daze up indefinitely and then we'll see the QQ change hands.
Thx, for all for all of the feedback.
around
Daze is significantly harder to remove than blind.
Puddin Cheeks
Quote:
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Originally Posted by around
Daze is significantly harder to remove than blind.
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Or i just say crap like, OMG, bring [antidote signet], because everyone wants to be leet and be Ranger secondary.
Spazzer
Quote:
| Profession: A/ |
Suck it up. assassins only have to worry about miss and block. real melee has even more counters, such as weakness and armor buffs.
Ate of DK
I see nothing wrong with this combo. Yep, it can be annoying if you have bad monks or bad mesmers/rangers. I can find tons of other stuff that annoys me as well but that doesn't mean it's an exploit...
HawkofStorms
While it does work as intended, this combo does make air ele's increasly unnecessary in PvP, as water eles now have snares and blindness (for less energy then blinding flash, at the cost of longer set up/cast time).
Edit: Daze is harder to remove since it is the monks who are dazed (and thus their spells cast to remove daze get interupted because of daze, or it gets covered).
Edit: Daze is harder to remove since it is the monks who are dazed (and thus their spells cast to remove daze get interupted because of daze, or it gets covered).
Tearz1993
[glyph of immolation] is a 1 second cast. it's pretty easy to interrupt, and definitely not an exploitable combo since it works the same way other glyphs work. Something that really needs to be nerfed is...
[signet of humility] + [mantra of inscriptions]
Oh and blind doesn't cause deaths.
[signet of humility] + [mantra of inscriptions]
Oh and blind doesn't cause deaths.
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Puddin Cheeks
it is a condition as well, albeit, your monk is the one who is suppose to help with that. That is how us melee peeps have to do it. When melee players carry condition removal they just hurt there team, but if said team has no monk, meh.
Or i just say crap like, OMG, bring [antidote signet], because everyone wants to be leet and be Ranger secondary. |
FoxBat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
I suppose you could run it on a mesmer
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Anet hates fastcasters (they don't even use mez skills), there will be some nerf to the bar somewhere. Glowing ice is my guess though, to make estorage more relevant.
Bsurge was hit too hard, everyone knows this... but steam isn't the strongest part of the bar anyway.
Lishy
STEAM NEEDS NO NERF!!!
LET WATER MAGIC HAVE *SOME* KIND OF USE IN THE GAME D:
Seriously, you're giving ANET ideas
LET WATER MAGIC HAVE *SOME* KIND OF USE IN THE GAME D:
Seriously, you're giving ANET ideas
Dobermann
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aapo
Well Earthen Shackles is even more broken. 17 seconds of 90% slowdown, which can be kept up indefinitely.
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at thread:
get a good PD mesmer and sit him on it if u hate it that much
if its the me/e version spam diversion
problem solved
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
GvG much lately?
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. I've seen the FC steam mesmers in RA, but dismissed them as less useful than the normal eles. I haven't seen them at all in TA, mind posting the bar?
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
I haven't actually, my alliance has fallen apart as far as PvP goes
. I've seen the FC steam mesmers in RA, but dismissed them as less useful than the normal eles. I haven't seen them at all in TA, mind posting the bar? |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kain
STEAM NEEDS NO NERF!!!
LET WATER MAGIC HAVE *SOME* KIND OF USE IN THE GAME D: Seriously, you're giving ANET ideas |
As far as FC Snares go, the problem lies in the snaring and anti-melee being extremely fast casting, and only divertable / PB on Water Attunement / lucky prediction interrupt. Well, outside of casting Glyph of Immolation that is, that one's an easy interrupt.
fowlero
This is the way it's always been in regards to the game mechanic.
Just look at [anthem of flame] + [stunning strike].
If you wanna kill something kill [symbolic celerity] + [signet of humility] + [mantra of inscriptions].
It's alright when its an easy dshot but when their getting it down to near 3/4 cast it's just stupid. It only opens up stupid builds for 8v8 and is broken in 4v4.
Just look at [anthem of flame] + [stunning strike].
If you wanna kill something kill [symbolic celerity] + [signet of humility] + [mantra of inscriptions].
It's alright when its an easy dshot but when their getting it down to near 3/4 cast it's just stupid. It only opens up stupid builds for 8v8 and is broken in 4v4.
Tearz1993
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tyla
You do understand water snares, along with Blurred Vision were already used before alot and without Steam / Immo, right? Oh, and some things are broken and practically unbalancable so they have to be killed. Not pointing at this build, as I do think there is a fix, but some things were bad choices on the Devs' part.
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Quote:
| As far as FC Snares go, the problem lies in the snaring and anti-melee being extremely fast casting, and only divertable / PB on Water Attunement / lucky prediction interrupt. Well, outside of casting Glyph of Immolation that is, that one's an easy interrupt. |