Should i equip my heros with superior attrib runes to give them 15 in their respective field???? keeping in mind they all have superior vigor runes (+50 health) already so itll be -25 and not 75. the heros im refering too are as follows;
necro minion bomber
Woh monk
fire nuker ele
So you think i should go with the extra +3 points? or its not worth the -25 health?
Superior attrib runes?
Gutz
Snow Bunny
Let your heroes get Shockwaved by Seacrash in HM then tell me if the +3 was worth it
In otherwords, no, it's not.
The only time I have one is on my minion bomber, and I as the monk keep him tightly monitored.
I would just roll around with +1 minor runes. As you get into HM you will discover how necessary 550+ HP becomes vs. AoE.
In otherwords, no, it's not.
The only time I have one is on my minion bomber, and I as the monk keep him tightly monitored.
I would just roll around with +1 minor runes. As you get into HM you will discover how necessary 550+ HP becomes vs. AoE.
Gutz
hmm so just the minion bomber should be given the rune? makes sense considering the minions themselves would be stronger.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutz
hmm so just the minion bomber should be given the rune? makes sense considering the minions themselves would be stronger.
Even then it's questionable.
Bottom line - +1s
Bottom line - +1s
RotteN
the point of minion bombing is to make them die, 14 death magic is more than enough for that.
Superior runes are N E V E R worth it.
Superior runes are N E V E R worth it.
Marverick
In NM +3 is fine considering level 18 fiends rip through everything. But ditch it when you get to HM.
As for everything else... no... the only other thing you might want a superior rune for is a Ritual Lord. Usually you can get away running dual superiors on them since they never need to be in the aggro circle.
But monks, eles... -75 health isn't worth +5-10 damage.
As for everything else... no... the only other thing you might want a superior rune for is a Ritual Lord. Usually you can get away running dual superiors on them since they never need to be in the aggro circle.
But monks, eles... -75 health isn't worth +5-10 damage.
zelgadissan
I personally give my MM a +3 in Death not actually for the actual bump in skill power, but so he can get 10 minions instead of 9. Necessary? Not in the least.
If I felt like going back and buying a minor rune instead I probably would replace it, but meh. That involves 10 seconds of work.
If I felt like going back and buying a minor rune instead I probably would replace it, but meh. That involves 10 seconds of work.
DarkSpirit
Same here, I gave my MM a +3 for 10 minions and higher level of minions. Even if you are minion bombing or Discord, it also translates to higher damage. It all boils down to personal preference especially for the MM.
HM monsters typically hit so hard (i.e. 100+ damage) on a squishy that the extra +75hp is going to buy you less than 1 hit and having more minions is a defense benefit to the entire party.
Typically, I would go with only minor skill runes unless maybe if I am going with a predominantly sac build. In that case, more hp means higher sacrifice, so the hp benefit of using only minor skill runes is smaller.
HM monsters typically hit so hard (i.e. 100+ damage) on a squishy that the extra +75hp is going to buy you less than 1 hit and having more minions is a defense benefit to the entire party.
Typically, I would go with only minor skill runes unless maybe if I am going with a predominantly sac build. In that case, more hp means higher sacrifice, so the hp benefit of using only minor skill runes is smaller.
Gutz
Ok guys thanks for the feedback the general consensus seems that it is infact impractial in HM which btw is all i do since ive finished everything in NM.
Ill take this on board mods can close this thread thanks.
Ill take this on board mods can close this thread thanks.
BFG
I would also discourage the use of Superior runes on heroes, as the extra health will make a load of difference in Hard Mode and the attribute gain isn't worth it, especially against bosses. Hard Mode bosses in Factions and Nightfall can be extremely nasty since they have half skill activation time and do double damage.
The hero armor headpiece has an inherent +1 to the attribute of the rune that you place. For example, placing a Rune of Minor Death Magic on your hero's headpiece will yield 14 [12+1(inherent)+1(rune)] instead of 13 (12+1) if you were to place that same rune on another armor piece. Just throwing that in there for you, Gutz, as I saw 15 max instead of 16, so wasn't sure of how you were placing the rune.
The hero armor headpiece has an inherent +1 to the attribute of the rune that you place. For example, placing a Rune of Minor Death Magic on your hero's headpiece will yield 14 [12+1(inherent)+1(rune)] instead of 13 (12+1) if you were to place that same rune on another armor piece. Just throwing that in there for you, Gutz, as I saw 15 max instead of 16, so wasn't sure of how you were placing the rune.
Gutz
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFG
I would also discourage the use of Superior runes on heroes, as the extra health will make a load of difference in Hard Mode and the attribute gain isn't worth it, especially against bosses. Hard Mode bosses in Factions and Nightfall can be extremely nasty since they have half skill activation time and do double damage.
The hero armor headpiece has an inherent +1 to the attribute of the rune that you place. For example, placing a Rune of Minor Death Magic on your hero's headpiece will yield 14 [12+1(inherent)+1(rune)] instead of 13 (12+1) if you were to place that same rune on another armor piece. Just throwing that in there for you, Gutz, as I saw 15 max instead of 16, so wasn't sure of how you were placing the rune.
Sorry i meant to put 16 in the OP it was a mistake ^^.
The hero armor headpiece has an inherent +1 to the attribute of the rune that you place. For example, placing a Rune of Minor Death Magic on your hero's headpiece will yield 14 [12+1(inherent)+1(rune)] instead of 13 (12+1) if you were to place that same rune on another armor piece. Just throwing that in there for you, Gutz, as I saw 15 max instead of 16, so wasn't sure of how you were placing the rune.
Sorry i meant to put 16 in the OP it was a mistake ^^.
Moloch Vein
Bah.
Do you want to know the real answer? IT ALL DEPENDS!!!
As long as you have not outfitted all your heroes with full Survivor plus full Vitae and Superior Vigor... if you have only one attunement rune, radiant, whatever... it's a question of Attribute level vs. MANY things. Attribute level vs Energy, Armor, Health, Enchantment upgrade, etc.
I run a superior rune on one of my heroes, and that's Olias. I've NEVER had a problem with having him on a superior rune. I also often run Majors on my heroes for different reasons. One of the most important reasons is that you get more attribute points to dual and spec higher into a third attribute, mostly off-profession.
This absolutist crap about "omg u use supz u fail" needs to stop, seriously. 75hp more or less ain't that bloody huge.
Do you want to know the real answer? IT ALL DEPENDS!!!
As long as you have not outfitted all your heroes with full Survivor plus full Vitae and Superior Vigor... if you have only one attunement rune, radiant, whatever... it's a question of Attribute level vs. MANY things. Attribute level vs Energy, Armor, Health, Enchantment upgrade, etc.
I run a superior rune on one of my heroes, and that's Olias. I've NEVER had a problem with having him on a superior rune. I also often run Majors on my heroes for different reasons. One of the most important reasons is that you get more attribute points to dual and spec higher into a third attribute, mostly off-profession.
This absolutist crap about "omg u use supz u fail" needs to stop, seriously. 75hp more or less ain't that bloody huge.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
This absolutist crap about "omg u use supz u fail" needs to stop, seriously. 75hp more or less ain't that bloody huge.
I think many of these came from PvP. Many things work in PvE but not in PvP and vice versa. I dont know why some people cant tell the difference between the two.
Arkantos
Quote:
Personally, the only time I run anything higher than a minor is when I absolutely need to meet a 15 break point. I have a superior rune on my MM hero, but I micro protective spirit on him the second he starts getting attacked.
Moloch Vein
Well, as for responding to the question above regarding his heroes though...
Use minors on WoH monk.
Use superior death + minor soul reaping on minion bomber. Dual into protection prayers, and consider going with a 11-10-10 spread.
Use minors on the fire ele. Actually, don't use a fire ele. They suck.
Use minors on WoH monk.
Use superior death + minor soul reaping on minion bomber. Dual into protection prayers, and consider going with a 11-10-10 spread.
Use minors on the fire ele. Actually, don't use a fire ele. They suck.
Gutz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Use minors on the fire ele. Actually, don't use a fire ele. They suck. My fire ele doesnt suck, mods are free to close the thread im going with the majority opinion here it makes more sense.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutz
My fire ele doesnt suck.
That's because you're playing too easy content.
Gutz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
That's because you're playing too easy content.
Stop being a NOOB and assuming you know things about how and what i play, if you read my previous comment i clearly stated i do everything in HM hardly 'easy content'.
Stop being a NOOB and assuming you know things about how and what i play, if you read my previous comment i clearly stated i do everything in HM hardly 'easy content'.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutz
Stop being a NOOB and assuming you know things about how and what i play, if you read my previous comments i clearly stated i do everything in HM hardly 'easy content'.
You obviously haven't gotten to the areas where you realize how much they suck, that's all...
Gutz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
You obviously haven't gotten to the areas where you realize how much they suck, that's all...
Just because you suck with them...doesnt mean others do now stop trolling my thread.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutz
Just because you suck with them...doesnt mean others do now stop trolling my thread.
Actually... I'm not "trolling your thread", I'm trying to tell you something. The point is that normally and generally speaking, your typical fire elementalist hero becomes woefully impotent in harder areas, where instead armor-ignoring damage hexes and mass shutdown becomes more effective.
Obviously there are ways to make an ele hero bar that doesn't suck way as much in HM, but it would hardly be what I'd call a "fire ele"...
Obviously there are ways to make an ele hero bar that doesn't suck way as much in HM, but it would hardly be what I'd call a "fire ele"...
Gutz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Actually... I'm not "trolling your thread", I'm trying to tell you something. The point is that normally and generally speaking, your typical fire elementalist hero becomes woefully impotent in harder areas, where instead armor-ignoring damage hexes and mass shutdown becomes more effective.
Obviously there are ways to make an ele hero bar that doesn't suck way as much in HM, but it would hardly be what I'd call a "fire ele"...
Can you read the thread title????? Am i asking for opinions on fire eles?? Thought not.
Obviously there are ways to make an ele hero bar that doesn't suck way as much in HM, but it would hardly be what I'd call a "fire ele"...
Can you read the thread title????? Am i asking for opinions on fire eles?? Thought not.
Winterclaw
I think awhile ago Ensign stated that superiors are okay if you are just piddling around but if you want to be serious that you need to keep to minor runes. Save for farming builds, you need the HP more than you need the extra attribute points.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...61&postcount=6
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ensign
Just take a look at your character and see how much of a benefit you are getting from the additional attribute ranks. If you're just getting a couple of points of damage out of your spells, you're likely better off sticking with minor runes and getting as much health as you can. But if you're getting significant bonuses to energy gained, such as with Mind Blast, Glowing Gaze, and Glowstone, or some critical extra seconds on enchantments, such as Obsidian Flesh or Stoneflesh Aura, then definitely consider taking either a major or a superior.
Honestly, if your squishy is dying too easily in HM, I would look closer into your strategy than that 75hp between your superior and minor rune.
Moloch Vein
To be honest I'm getting really tired of "this dude said" and "that dude said" responses. How about trying to use your own brains?
Originally Posted by Gutz
As a side note... what do you need on this forum to be considered a "serious PvE player"? Gold cape trim? Oh, and... Quote: Can you read the thread title????? Am i asking for opinions on fire eles?? Thought not.
Nope, you didn't, but that's not how this forum works. It works like this. You start a thread asking for an opinion on the skill Wastrel's Worry, and you get replies from people talking about cats and female warrior chest armor
Rhamia Darigaz
this one time, i rolled a female warrior, and just as i was making her chest armor, my cat jumped onto my keyboard! it was only moments later that i realized: I DONT HAVE A CAT!!1!!11one
but if i dont have a cat.... who was phone? edit: fire eles are indeed bad.
cellardweller
When running a melee character, I find the best setup is to have having multiple 600+hp heroes and 1 450-500 hp hero. The AI can tell when one party member has lower hp and always targets them, which can be used effectively shepherd the monsters and ensure that the whole enemy group is held in adjacent AoE's. Once you get the hang of it you'll find your kill speed doubles.
Tyla
Breakpoints: Yes. In other scenarios it isn't beneficial to have a little damage over a big loss of survivability.
No breakpoint to hit: No. Cyb3r
i agree with tyla only reason to ever go for a sup rune is for break points like mindblast or some others no reason to ever go for it
Chthon
1. It's a trade off. 75 max vs the benefit of 2 extra attribute points. Sometimes attribute points get you past important breakpoints to make it worth it, and sometimes they don't.
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
2. Quote: |
Quote:
Let your heroes get Shockwaved by Seacrash in HM then tell me if the +3 was worth it
I'm pretty sure an unproted HM seacrash shockwave is going to kill you no matter how much max hp you've got. And a proted one isn't going to kill you no matter matter how little max hp you've got. In which case you'd probably be better off with the attribute points so that you could have more impact before you died.
3. Moloch is mostly right about fire eles. They aren't bad, but they are definitely second-tier. As monster levels go up, so does monster armor, and all that armor-sensitive fire damage your ele throws out turns to poo. Against harder monsters a curse necro or AP-AE-MoP memser will seriously outperform any ele.
On a more general note, you should make a habit of listening to Moloch; he's usually right.
I'm pretty sure an unproted HM seacrash shockwave is going to kill you no matter how much max hp you've got. And a proted one isn't going to kill you no matter matter how little max hp you've got. In which case you'd probably be better off with the attribute points so that you could have more impact before you died.3. Moloch is mostly right about fire eles. They aren't bad, but they are definitely second-tier. As monster levels go up, so does monster armor, and all that armor-sensitive fire damage your ele throws out turns to poo. Against harder monsters a curse necro or AP-AE-MoP memser will seriously outperform any ele.
On a more general note, you should make a habit of listening to Moloch; he's usually right.
Shaz
Here is a good post on superior rune
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=83
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=83
Cebe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Let your heroes get Shockwaved by Seacrash in HM then tell me if the +3 was worth it
I would take that wager, sir, seeing as how Seacrash has Unsteady Ground.
Closed by OP's Request.
/Locked.
Closed by OP's Request.
/Locked.