End Meta Without Nefing Meta, Including Ursan

I found this quote in a thread in riverside inn and to it I wrote the following response. My response took the thread in a complete different direction, its own direction that I felt needed its own thread here.

Actually, i think changing the design of things could go a long ways toward helping too, and I am not arguing for a nerf to Ursan because I think people should be able to use it if they want, and I know if Ursan is nerfed some other meta team like trinity will just take its place, the way it was before Ursan is they way it will be after Ursan, unless changes beyond skill nerfs are made.

I think one of the major reasons PuGs go with specific groups is not always because they are doing it spefically to just get the reward, alot of people are doing to complete the quest for the sake of playing the game and completeing the quest, but they dont want to lose out on their investment of time, and ultimately end up wasting their time in a fail group. Lets face it, many areas where Ursan is commonly used require a significant amount of time to complete.

I think if they came up with a way to allow players to do the quests separately, 1 at a time instead of having to do 11 quests in one sitting alot more people would be willing to do non ursan groups because:

1) Ursan is kind of boring and lots of people like playing the game and have more fun playing the game with a mesmer for example. Something that is not a part of Ursan or most other specific groups that people have used before Ursan and will go back to after Ursan.

2) Doing the quests one at a time would not require a huge investment of time, and most people, if doing with the intent of say clearing fow, would be willing to take a chance with one quest because it wouldnt be such a waste of time if they failed. Failing 1 quest with wouldnt be that big of a deal if you could just pick up where you left off. It wouldnt be like going into FoW, completing 5 quests and failing on the 6th and having to start completely over, that is a huge waste of time. Also, no quest/dungeon should take more than and hour to complete in one sitting. Makes you wonder why Anet has that warning sign, you have been playing for an hour please take a break when so much stuff in the game is impossible to finish in an hour, and ther is no way to take a break and just pick up where you left off.

Of course, you will still have the farmers that want to do the same thing over and over again in the fastest way possible just to get the rewards and nothing will change them because they are playing the game for the rewards. But just as the majority of GW players are not hardcore, i dont think the majority of players are boring gold and rewards grinding farmers. Most of them play because they like to play, its just the huge time investment and risk involved to wasting your time if you fail. Thats one of the big reasons alot of people do Ursan and the meta trinity groups in the first place imo.

Well, where to start! You have made a few interesting points there.
The GW community is always going on about nerfing a skill, if Ursan was nurfed then another skill/build would takes its place, its the way of GW. The whole Ursan debate has been going on for sometime now and this is not the thread for that.
When it comes to forming PUG for certain missions or areas like UW/FOW, people are always looking for certain builds or skills. As an ele at one time if you didnt have echo and meteor shower then you found it harder to find such groups, the same goes for today.

But i agree with you, Ursan is boring but i do use it because it works. Often when im going to do certain areas that take a while, i dont want to get half way though and fail, so i use Ursan, but this doesn't mean its the only "build" that i use.
There has been many a time that ive gone into Fow or UW with a non Ursan PUG group just to get around an hour into it to find someone say " oh ive got to go now" or "its my dinner time", so once 1 person leave, near enough everyone else does, and the last hour been a waste of my time.

So to sum up all of my above into your point D E C E P T I V E..

I see to sides to your idea. Yes for many it would be a better way to be able to clear the likes or FOW or UW, they often do take a long time to complete, and its made worse with having "leavers" in your group. Also having the ability to enter FOW/UW to do 1 or 2 quests - leave and come back another to and start where you left off would make you less reliant on Ursan teams as you wouldn't have to do a full clear to do these places. It opens up these places to more non ursan teams or the non hardcore player.

But on the flip side, areas such as FOW/UW are elite high end places, and as such they are meant to be hard places to be, and maybe having the ability to clear fow/uw in parts could remove what makes these places elite.

Its a good idea, although many people on here might not agree with you

So what are you suggesting? The ability to do some FoW quests, leave and then continue on a next instance?

I would love that. One person who has already completed 10 quests out of the 11 in FoW, loads in 7 other people and enters FoW. As soon as the party enters 10/11 quests would be completed, so those 7 other people only have to complete the 11th to get to the chest.

What's more, that first person could just become a doorman for 7 party-teams wanting to farm FoW/UW, by providing them 10/11 cleared quests.

I'd say /notsigned to prevent this kind of abuse.

Besides, remember these areas are Elite areas for a reason. You need to invest some time to complete them. Still, with 2 players and 6 heroes you should be able to clear FoW or UW in about 3 hours.

No, allowing places like FoW and UW to be done one quest at a time would cause more problems than it solved. You would be in pugs with people that didn't need the exact same quests as you (they would stay only until what THEY needed was finished), and the amount of leavers would make you pull your hair out. And no, you won't be able to avoid this by clarifying before you begin. Because the same self-centered person that would bail on you is the same person that wants the free-ride or shared-cost ride into FoW.

Regarding the cost... are you ok with spending 1k or a scroll every time you go to UW or FoW for the completion of a single quest or two? Because that's all you will complete with a pug if they allowed us to do this piecemeal.

Furthermore, finding the right group for certain quests would be a huge headache, similar to the one you get trying to find the right group for slavers exile individual parts.

Lastly, Arduinna makes a great point (see above).

I could see it now. "WTS UW RUN 10/11 QUESTS 50k." We don't want another gold sink in the economy right now. We need a nerf to ursan yes. But something that will make it still playable. /unsigned. Pugs will always go with whats the fastest safest and easiest to play. Ursan is that right now.

With a decent set up of skills me and my friend did NM FoW 2huamn 6hero in 2 hours and 15 mins.

http://s270.photobucket.com/albums/j...nt=gw060-1.jpg

And think about it. It would function just like Slavers Exile everyone 4/5 or no go. now they part where this could become a problem is like the Slavers thing as well most groups do the first 4 in NM for speed and simplicity, and move onto Duncan in HM. So if they where separate instances people could do 10/11 in NM and finish 11 in HM and get the chests double drops.

So it would be like with DoA, or better - if you go with a 10/11 team and you have only 2/11 quests, you are not getting the reward. Of course, you will have 3/11 if you didn't finish the quest your team did.

Some ideas are good, but flawed. Bad people crap about those ideas. Smart people find HOW TO SOLVE THOSE FLAWS so that the idea is better on the paper. And later in the game.

Wooow can I touch you? It's really hard to finish FoW NM with ONLY 2 humans, Racway and Sabway. [/sarcasm]

I finished it with 1 player, sabway and my own modified 3 heroes. And didn't have to offtopic in other thread.

Well if something like this were going to be implemented of course they would have to implement it in way that it couldnt be abused.

They could make it so you would have to get the quests in a specific order, have the quest, and complete the quest to get the reward, and the next quest, etc, etc. Kind of like they do with the missions In NF.

You cant enter the mission until you have met requirements, you wouldnt be able to take the quest unless you have met the requirements, ie completed earlier quest.

Never thought anyone would assume you could just keep it the way it is now, lol that would be ridiculous and thats why I said you would need to change it.

/notsigned

I think taking away the requirement of completing all quests in one sitting would make it easier, definitely. However, FoW/UW and the other elite areas are just that: elite. Not everyone is suppose to be able to just go in and do the quests. Not only does it take some amount of skill to be able to complete the quests, but it would make finding a group even more difficult than it already is. Spamming lfg UW or lfg FoW is much easier to get a response to than lfg UW quests 1, 4, 6 and 11 (or something of the sort). And then, once you complete it, what happens? Those areas are not currently a quest like the dungeons, so how would it be redoable?

So. It will be easier to do or harder to get into? Oo

Quests inside of UW/FoW are repeatable. And you can repeat all of them. No reason not to make them as a dungeon, especially since they ARE almost dungeons - hard monsters? Check. End chest? Check. The only thing different is that you must be ascended and pay 1k/use a scroll.

And this CAN be made unabusable. Look at Slaver's Exile or DoA - people with 3/4 bosses/quests can't go to main boss.

And how is that different from now? Ursanscrubs just go in and finish quests. yay.

I think that it would be harder to find a group with exactly the same quests need while still having a group that would be able to complete.

I think I misunderstood the first time on the repeatable quests. If the quests had a money reward along with XP I think it would be a bigger issue.



I pretty much hate the Ursanscrubs. If it were up to me, they wouldn't be able to use Ursan, but that's going off topic and its not up to me.

Elite Areas


/notsigned