How to be amazing at PvE (All the cool kids are doing it) Otherwise, a Paragon Guide

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

01 Aug 2008 at 22:31 - 1

Quick Note: This is basically to provide a more contemporary look at Paragons, as opposed to the previous guide which suggests 'fun' builds with hammers.

Sections:
1. Introduction
*1.1 Leadership
*1.2 Command
*1.3 Motivation
*1.4 Spear Mastery

2. Equipment
*2.1 Spear
*2.2 Shield
*2.3 Staff
*2.4 Bow
*2.5 Reasoning behind sets
*2.6 Armors

3. Skills
*3.1 Basics of skill selection
*3.2 Utility
*3.3 Energy Issues
*3.4 Some current builds
*3.5 Other professions

4. Hero and Henchies
*4.1 Basics
*4.2 Team build selections

Disclaimer: Some may complain about my tunnel vision regarding viability, in that it's possible to be fun and viable. This is sometimes true, but 'fun' builds are often terrible, case in point being a Hammergon with Awe. This guide is to teach you how to play a Paragon, and be good at it.

And yes, I shamelessy ripped off Divine's guide because the format was good.

1. Introduction: Many people have very odd notions about the Paragon as a profession. Many perceive it as an overly nerfed hybrid between a prot monk and a warrior that fails at either aspect and in the end has been nerfed too much to be useful. This is a terrible and seriously misinformed viewpoint and if you are guilty of believing that Paragons are bad, you sir, are bad.

Paragons have come into their own as the unrivaled master of party-wide support and damage mitigation, and can be solely responsible for simultaneously buffing damage while mitigating it. Not to mention that damage from a Paragon is nothing to scoff at.

The Paragon as it stands currently is almost a defiant monument against the holy trinity as its defensive capabilities allow a team to pretty much configure itself to the team's desire without worry. Not to mention, blow stuff up.

1.1 Leadership: You gain 2 Energy for each ally affected by one of your Shouts or Chants (maximum 1 Energy for every 2 ranks).
This is the only attribute that can close to rival Soul Reaping in terms of power. In both theory and practice, with the right setup, you can power pretty much any bar you want with this. A warrior relies on adrenaline to fuel attacks, and can't really spam energy-attacks like a Dervish or Assassin can due to their small energy pool. The Paragon, with the same 2-pip regen level, can spam energy-based skills on a whole new level.

1.2 Command: This is your magnify-party-power attribute. A lot of Shouts are in this attribute, many of them either amplifying party damage output or adding great utility either offensively or defensively.

1.3 Motivation: This line was abused heavily in the Guild versus Guild format because of the ridiculous amounts of defense it lends. While not a lot of direct heals like Restoration or Healing Prayers from other professions, coupled with spammable shouts Motivation allows a Paragon to throw a lot of party healing and general defense all over the party in various layers that are difficult to crack.

1.4 Spear Mastery: Well, you are a physical, and you should be doing damage. A lot of people believe that Paragon offense is minimal. This is crap. Paragons autoattacking do very similar damage to Sword warriors. The numbers (14-27 vs. 15-22) are fairly close to each other and the damage is quite consistent. Spear damage is good and you should use it.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

01 Aug 2008 at 22:31 - 2

2. Equipment: Well, you need a couple things, the least of which is a spear, so you can kill stuff.

2.1 Spear: As I mentioned previously, your primary weapon is a spear and it should stay your primary weapon. Some people like making sword paragons, axe paragons, hammer paragons, etc. Don't do that. A spear provides you ranged sword DPS. What more do you want? Pancakes? You have 4 weapon slots, spear sets should take up 2 of them. One set should have a specific-damage-type mitigation shield with a vampiric spear, and the other should be a blind-reduction shield with a sundering/elemental spear. I normally roll with the Sundering spear because I like bringing Orders buffs along with me and elemental screws that up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

If you're expecting blind you'll want to sit on the reduce blind shield set naturally. As the only one in the party that can really take damage I don't want to be sitting on my vampiric weapon either. In which case you'll want to either use Sundering or Furious on the spear in that slot. Normally elemental would be the better choice as you could swap to it when dealing with warriors but because this setup has Order of Pain on the hero you lose some of your damage against normal foes. I stick with Sundering since I won't be blind all the time and I don't lose all that much damage compared to Vampiric.

You should always roll around with at least 12 in spear mastery. People who enjoy killing stuff might enjoy 14 (12+1+1) a lot more.

2.2 Shield: You have 80 armor standard, close to the Warrior's 80+20physical. With a shield that you meet the requirements for, you reach 96, which is almost an additional 66% more than casters. Unless you're a Motigon (we'll get to that) of some sort, you'll be using a Command shield. Many Paragon builds typically spec into Command for the ridiculously useful skills or if only to get the shield bonus. +16 armor is normally worth the spec. You'll want a couple different shields; I have 4. One with +10 vs. fire, +10 vs. cold, +10 vs. slashing, and 20% blind reduction. I use cold for paragoning in EotN, as there's quite a bit of AoE Water magic there. Fire and Blind are probably the best bets, however...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

As a paragon you are not targeted that often. Most of the damage you'll receive is typically AoE commonly found in the fire magic tree. That and because you'll typically find fire in a lot of the endgame areas (Fissure of Woe, Underworld, etc...).

If you're expecting blind you'll want to sit on the reduce blind shield set naturally. 2.3 Staff: Certain skills are Don't-Leave-Home-Withouts, one of them being [Aggressive Refrain]. If you're bad, and/or dying, you'll need to recast it, which your 2-pip energy regen will take eternity to let you do. A staff (I use Oola's) allows you some energy to throw up AR or some other skill, and charge right into battle to pump out shouts for more energy.

2.4 Bow: There are times you will need to pull mobs (or Shard Wolves) and you don't want to aggro the entire burning forest. Use a longbow. I use a purple Wooden Longbow of Marksmanship (+1, 16% chance) because I'm awesome.

2.5 Reasoning behind Sets: Blind set if you're expecting blind, cold set for water aoe, fire set for most stuff, and slashing for areas with lots of axe/sword enemies.

2.6 Armor: Some people like Centurion's insignia. I use survivor typically because ["Save yourselves!"] is always on my bar and thus enemies might gun for me seeing as everyone else has 160+ armor. In case I die, I'd prefer to be a bit more resilient, especially in HM where bosses spank you with 300-500 points of spike damage.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

01 Aug 2008 at 22:32 - 3

3. Skills: Your skill bar will be cramped. As a Paragon, you'll want a couple things - party support, IAS, damage skills, and possibly a res skill. Invest in the most utility you can.

3.1 Basics: Let's assume you want all 4 of the aforementioned utilities. You have 8 spots. For our purposes of trying to not be terrible at this game, let's assume 1 Res skill, 1 IAS, 2-3 damage skills, and 3-4 support/utility skills.

IAS: [Aggressive Refrain] - With shouts constantly being spammed, this is a one time cast permanent IAS. Very solid pick and should always be on a Paragon bar. If you think Cracked Armor matters you should keep it to yourself.
Res: [Resurrection Signet] or [Signet of return] - One's fast, the other's always renewable. Gauge appropriately.

Damage should have damage, but utility as well. Throwing around conditions and disruption are generally preferred. Here's a couple of good damage skills.

[spear of fury] - I put this at the beginning because everyone wrote "well, what about spear of fury? Spear of Fury is an excellent skill. I have Kurzick rank 8 and this skill deals a lot of damage and fuels adrenaline. It in my mind is tied if not a close second to [ebon battle standard of honor] for the 3rd skill in the Imbagon build. I will explain further, but - if your ebon rank is low (<6) and your Alliance rank decent (4+) take this over EBSoH.
[Wild throw] - Will end a stance, which you find a lot of in PvE.
[Blazing spear] - spammable with fire tacked on, not bad.
[vicious attack] - deep wound if you critical with added damage, pretty powerful.
[Merciless spear] - Good way to throw deep wound on a target. Adrenal and cheap, with a fairly easy to meet condition.
[spear swipe] (yes I know it's in Leadership, stop being literal) - AI use this well. Damage + daze is pretty debilitating for casters; this is normally micro'd by me on a hero bar, but quite strong.
[spear of redemption] - if you have blind on you, this is a good way to get rid of it.
[swift javelin] - quite nice as long as you're under an enchantment; running around with an orders necro ensures you can meet this condition.
[stunning strike] - a lot of damage and daze.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

[stunning strike] is my favored elite choice given the spammable nature of the skill with Dark Fury. Monks were previously an annoyance on hard mode.

It's really between this and Cruel Spear for an elite spear attack; they're both quite powerful. Gauge caster strength and make your choice.
[cruel spear] - damage and deep wound, simply a strong choice, but elite.

3.2 utility - you want to buff your party members in all sorts of ways. Extra armor, extra damage, health regen, increased movement speed are all there to be abused. (God it's hard not to simply say "Imbagon" and be done, but alright. You people want all your options, so I'll cater to it). Here's a couple of good choices for various reasons. (I am specifically avoiding pve skills here, notably the imbagon. I will discuss it in a bit)

Command:
["stand your ground!"] - Paragons work well with other Paragons. Paragons don't need to move to attack; neither do rangers, or casters if they're not kiting. +24 armor is sexy.
["go for the eyes!"] - spammable, powerful, and energy-helpful. This is a popular skill for seriously increasing party damage with lolamounts of criticals. Using this just prior to a Vicious Attack is an almost sure-fire deepwound.
["incoming!"] - An elite version of "Fall Back". Your party moves around faster and gains health while moving. While this is indeed useful, it's better on a character that can sacrifice the elite slot because their standard skills are powerful by default. This is a good skill on characters like Rits and Necros, where their elite skills are occasionally not the best option.
[anthem of envy] - This will increase your party's damage by a lot, and is quite spammable under Dark Fury.
[anthem of weariness] - An easy way to spread weakness around enemy mobs, which will seriously reduce physical damage output against your party.
[anthem of disruption] - if you have a lot of physicals, you can pretty much wreck enemy caster mobs with this skill. Less useful than others, but a fun and quasi-viable alternative.

Motivation (disclaimer - I typically find motivation to be a waste for human paragons; it works well with heroes, however):
[aria of restoration] - Provides blanket party healing.
[aria of zeal] - Help your monks out!
[chorus of restoration] - with a lot of paragons, this instantly provides a lot of healing for a little skill slot.
[mending refrain] - with shout spam, this quickly turns itself into mending on your entire party with no upkeep. It's quite handy with a spammable shout in your party.
[song of restoration] - Blanket party heal.
[song of purification] - Very useful, this can easily clean up entire parties by itself. A pretty solid pick.

Leadership: Pretty sweet attribute, most battlelions go here first
["they're on fire!"] - couple this with a way to spread burning (anthem of flame, fire eles), and voila! Party protection!
[angelic bond] - An interesting skill to throw around party protection, but it uses up your elite. With so many other viable mitigation options, this one is rather outclassed in a PvE setting.
[anthem of flame] - Burning is a nice condition to have, plus you can spam this to keep AR up when you're not fighting. A consistent if not astounding pick.
[awe] - THIS SUCKS, DON'T USE IT.
[defensive anthem] - It's like Aegis, just unstrippable. Nice if you want the added defense.
[hexbreaker aria] - A good no-investment hex removal. Good for relieving pressure.
[focused anger] - Good for maintaining high adrenal use bars.

3.3 energy: As long as you have a quick, spammable adrenal skill, spam that under an Adrenal boost [focused anger] or [dark fury] and you should have all the energy you need.

3.4 Some current builds: Fine, I'll do it. Screw mediocrity, we're getting to the meat of this thing.

The Imbagon. 12+1+1 Spear Mastery, 11+1 Leadership, 6+1 Command.
[optional][optional][optional]["there's nothing to fear!"]["save yourselves!"][aggressive refrain][focused anger][optional]

This is the best PvE Paragon build you can find, and this is the one I will advocate. Your first two slots, which I've labeled as optional, are attack skills. I like to shamelessly bum off Racthoh and use [vicious attack] and [swift javelin]. Vicious attack is pretty nice Deep wound spam and swift javelin is solid unblockable damage when running around with an Orders Necromancer. Your third skill should be some sort of support, preferably damage. [anthem of envy], [ebon battle standard of honor], [anthem of disruption] are all good choices, preferably EBSoH. Increase your damage output with this slot. TNTF is game-breaking damage mitigation couple with some very slight power healing. There's absolutely no reason why this shouldn't be on your bar. SY! is similarly outstanding damage mitigation. Quote: Originally Posted by Guild Wars Wiki +100 armor will reduce damage taken by 82.5% Couple this with TNTF and your party is invincible. Aggressive Refrain for an IAS, and sig of return OR ["for great justice!"] (depending on how mighty you are).

[spear of fury] vs. [ebon battle standard of honor] - They're quite close and it comes down to personal preference in my opinion. I like EBSoH more because I run around with lots of physical characters. Placing this ward in the frontline allows all physicals to benefit from its effects. The party-wide damage buff seriously pulls ahead of the strong single-target damage Spear of Fury grants.

In terms of adrenaline gain, with an Orders/Focused Anger combo, your adrenaline should be fine to keep ["save yourselves!"] up constantly.

If you're 4-man vanquishing, take Spear of Fury. 8 man groups, however, I suggest taking EBSoH

You can attempt other builds with varying degrees of utility, but SY! and TNTF should be on your bar simply because they can be.

To construct another build, here's a conceptual non-Imbagon build (Why you'd run non-imbagon, I don't know. Being unique=/=useful)

[Blazing spear][merciless spear][stunning strike][anthem of envy][anthem of flame]["they're on fire!"][aggressive refrain][optional]

Sure, while this build will work just great, it's definitively weaker.

As I stated above, Paragon skills generally have excellent synergy with each other; a spammable shout combined with party buffs and damage attacks will be immensely useful on any team.

Of course, I must go with the Imbagon build. I'm here to recommend you the best options, to give you a good idea of what's the most viable.

3.5 Other professions: For secondaries, you have an interesting set of options. Warrior gives you ["shields up!"] and ["save yourselves!]. Mesmer gives you interrupts like [power return],[cry of frustration],[power spike], and [expel hexes]. This however should probably be reserved for the PvP format of Guild Wars. Ranger, Elementalist, Monk, Dervish, Assassin afford you little in the mode of options. Ritualist gives you [Death pact signet] and little else. I like necromancer occasionally for [enfeebling blood] but that's pretty much it and can be accomplished by [anthem of weariness].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

The bottom line is that the classes with innate energy management built in work together almost flawlessly.

Warriors (adrenaline is basically an energy management mechanic arguably), Necromancers, Dervishes, Assassins, and Paragons work together quite fluidly, as the infinite energy each class can obtain can fuel very powerful bars in a party. Pretty much making one of those and throwing it in a well-organized group with the others will win PvE.

A combination of all of them makes for incredibly strong groups.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

01 Aug 2008 at 22:33 - 4

4. Heroes and Henchies: Synergy is key.

You will traditionally want other paragons with you to maintain a web of defensive and offensive buffs through shouts and chants. Other physicals will benefit greatly from the offensive buffs you can spew forth.

Elementalists and mesmers...eh...not so much.

I will direct you to Racthoh's thread for a more in depth look at Paragon hero setups in Racthoh's thread, but here I can say that physicals with damage buffs through [splinter weapon] [order of pain] [dark fury] and the like will win PvE.

Racthoh's thread on being awesome:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10254869

Many have cited Racthoh's orders Dervish as clumsy.

To an extent, I agree. While the heals are nice, they can be slow and the Orders can be done more efficiently (in my not-so-humble opinion) by a Necromancer.

Before I get to that, some have brought up the point of trying a [ether renewal] powered Orders. Sure, you'll have infinite energy to power whatever you want. Bear in mind however that the hero will take burdensome amounts of micro-management. I have tried it myself and it's quite clumsy; the only reason you'd do it is if you don't mind the micro-management and you really seriously desire slotting in elementalist utility skills like [blinding flash], [ward against melee], etc. Also, with an ele Orders, bear in mind - your elite spot is taken; this is another problem I have with the D/N Orders.

Instead....

Let's look at a Necromancer for Orders. A human is optimal for this, if only for [great dwarf weapon], but we're assuming it's a hero, so that's out.

The Necromancer can manage its energy perfectly. Soul Reaping is already powerful enough, but other boosts to that include [masochism] and [signet of lost souls]. I've personally found the two preferred secondaries to be monk and ritualist.

With the necromancer, your elite is open. This allows for the necromancer to go [order of pain][dark fury][blood renewal][optional][optional][optional][optional][optional][optional]

Couple of nice options -
[Icy veins] - Nice AoE, but it'll get really pummeled in Hard Mode.
[Well of Power] - Simple overall party support, not to mention corpse control
[Life transfer] - Newly buffed, it's not terrible anymore, and the life regeneration is nice for an Orders character.

With monk -
[Signet of removal] - I really like this elite, mainly for its utility, especially in hex-heavy areas. Couple this with [smite hex] and/or [smite condition] and your orders is seriously relieving pressure off monks.
[Aegis] - In PvE, this can mitigate lots of damage, and with the attribute spread it's easily manageable.

With ritualist -
[splinter weapon] - You knew it was coming.
[ancestor's rage] - Cheap and spammable.

I also like Warriors in my party. Having an Orders in the party + warriors means that they can spam their attacks easily and their DPS simply owns face. Truth be told, I like to run around with an [earth shaker] warrior in my party when dual-human vanquishing; it makes mobs explode quite fast.

Anyway, peace out.

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

02 Aug 2008 at 00:06 - 5

In the interest of giving more builds to the paragon in PvE, here's a couple I've ran or my heroes have ran. Most of these are from my Guild's all Para setup. Some can be adapted for PvP, but since I'm a total noob at PvP (outside of the occasional AB), I'll leave that to the more experienced

There's alot of customizability in these builds, so don't be afraid to experiment.

Incoming Para:
[build=OQCjUumI6SKYhiEZ8YVYWYubybA]
[[disrupting throw] can be swapped for [[spear swipe]-but I found my heroes to be dumber than a brick when using Swipe. Sometimes they'll use it for causing Daze, other times they'll use for damage. End result-you're about as likely to get it used on a warrior than a monk. Here, you'll want a minor command on a command head set as that's the break point for the next level of [[incoming]. I personnally like [[holy spear], but others find it quesitonable. [[spear of redemption] is a nice way to keep blind and other nasty things off.

Song of Restoration
[build=OQCjUmnMaS+iFZxYdYcYrbubybA]

Song of Purification
[build=OQCjUmnMaS+iBZxYdYcYiYubybA]
So I was lazy and pretty much just copied the SoR build. Sue me

For both of these, if you're in a party with casters, work in [[aria of zeal] to give them a hand. Also, while I personnally like [[signet of synergy],[[mending refrain] is probably a more appropiate choice.

Cruel Spear
[build prof=p spear=11+1+1 leadership=11+1 command=8+1][cruel spear][optional][optional][optional][anthem of weariness][go for the eyes][aggressive refrain][optional][/build]
Here, you'll want to add in two more spear attacks. [spear of redemption],[vicious attack],[spear of lightning], [spear of fury], [swift javelin] are nice choices. [[there's nothing to fear] is a nice choice for PvE. For AB, [[holy spear] is pretty choice against MM's.

A second shout is also highly recommended. [[anthem of envy] is a nice choice to bring down a foes health. For the last spot, a rez is a good choice. For an AB situation, [[fall back] is a nice way to get your allies from point A to point B.

Tyla also has a nice [[defensive anthem] build involving [[enfeebling blood], but I can't find it at the moment. Can someone post this?

For heroes, there's several things you can consider. The "typical" setup is Racway-two paras and an orders Derv. However, I found this to be clunky to work with (and so have others).

You should almost always have a paragon hero with you. Ranged physical+great synergy with your shouts.

I kind of agree/disagree with Snow Bunny's comment about eles. Physcially, they have no synergy with your Paragon. However, they can support with things like KD ([[unsteady ground], [[earthquake]), AoE blindness ([[eruption], [[blinding flash]) and can bring party support skills such as [[splinter weapon], [[enfeebling blood], [[ward against melee] etc.

My current H/H setup for HM is:

[build=OQCjUumI6SKYhiEZ8YVYWYubybA]
[build=OgRDcausO7wTxqwO0nRGpCYB]
[build=OwYT04XCTaTTgYlwBcjoBUjAZAA]

Sometimes I'll drop the ele for a [[discord] spammer, or [[icy veins]. With the player running Imbagon, pretty much the only way you'd take damage is via AoE. And you can just move out of the way for that.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

02 Aug 2008 at 00:15 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

Tyla also has a nice [[defensive anthem] build involving [[enfeebling blood], but I can't find it at the moment. Can someone post this? Off the top of my head, it was something like this:

[defensive anthem][enfeebling blood][vicious attack]["go for the eyes!"][aggressive refrain][anthem of flame][rip enchantment][no skill]

Last skill some support or whatever. Bladeturn Refrain for defense in "slashy" areas, Anthem of Envy for more damage etc...

Maybe swap something for Spear Swipe so you have a source of anti-caster and anti-melee.

I'll go searching around for it, but I can't remember the exact thread.

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

02 Aug 2008 at 00:23 - 7

That looks pretty close to the one I was thinking of.

Rico the Spirited

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2008

Social Welfare Agency (Special Ops)

02 Aug 2008 at 01:45 - 8

/bow

Wow, Snow Bunny. I can actually say I understand Paragons now. This is so full of awesome it made my mind kersplode. I vote sticky!

Freke

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

N/A

02 Aug 2008 at 01:56 - 9

It's good but you don't show much ... diversity. I want to see somebody make an uberpwning paragon build that doesn't involve SY! or TNTF! (underdog is here)

But yes, good guide, with it I think I might try RA with a paragon (owned the first time I tried) or maybe make some leet hero build that involves a paragon thats better than sabs and racts, maybe.

Fishmonger

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

P/W

02 Aug 2008 at 08:26 - 10

[SKILL]Plague Sending[/SKILL] + [SKILL]Aggressive Refrain[/SKILL] + [SKILL]Chest Thumper[/SKILL].

Put that cracked armor to use.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

02 Aug 2008 at 08:31 - 11

^
Vicious Attack + GftE is much, much better.

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

02 Aug 2008 at 11:47 - 12

Yeah, my monk guide was supposed to have a lot of the details about skills that yours had, but I eventually stopped caring

Great title though.

Stickied!

Btw, the bow should always have a cool skin! Pull with style.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

02 Aug 2008 at 12:11 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freke

Paragons kinda suck in RA and this isn't a guide for being creative, it's for being good.

Quote:

Btw, the bow should always have a cool skin! Pull with style. It's a well known fact that the cooler your bow, the better your pulls will be. x]

Magikarp

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2007

[HAWK]

02 Aug 2008 at 20:20 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

It's a well known fact that the cooler your bow, the better your pulls will be. x] All I know is that one time I pulled once with a starter longbow and the game crashed.

Fantastic guide Snow

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

02 Aug 2008 at 20:40 - 15

[Empathic Removal] is also option on para heroes.

Ben-A-BoO

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Europe

03 Aug 2008 at 06:33 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

All I know is that one time I pulled once with a starter longbow and the game crashed. If I were the game I would do the same (Yes babe, that's a rhyme).

Love the guide, even though there is nothing new under the sun for me old fart, it's an enjoyable read ... good stuff ...

Mesmer in Need

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

[ToA]

03 Aug 2008 at 06:57 - 17

Nice guide, but what about spear of fury? It's a nice attack for a SY bar, with a quick activation time as well as easy adren.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

03 Aug 2008 at 07:34 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

1.4 Spear Mastery: Well, you are a physical, and you should be doing damage. A lot of people believe that Paragon defense is minimal. Should this be offense?

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

03 Aug 2008 at 15:00 - 19

Yes Avarre, you are right.

I am on vacation, however, but I will change it when I get back.
I'll put some more info in, but for about 1.5 hours at the office, that was pretty much all I could do

Smexy Dexy

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2007

Souls of lost heroes

Rt/

03 Aug 2008 at 15:54 - 20

I have a little problem with my imbagon build. I can't stand not looking nice, and I can't either stand having a shield with non-perfect mods. And a combination of this is that a good-looking perfect shield with req 7 in Command/Motivation would cost... a lot more than I can stand paying for.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

03 Aug 2008 at 15:57 - 21

Do it if you must, the damage is still quite large considering you're ranged.

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

03 Aug 2008 at 22:36 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smexy Dexy

The solution of this is to put down Spear Mastery to 13 and go for 8+1 in Command/Motivation. Is this minus in damage really noticable? It does -1 in the spear attacks I have, but otherwise, how much less damage is it really? And is there any trouble not having points in Command in Motivation and put up 8 in Tactics instead? The shield I want doesn't have any Paragon attributes. I had the same issue. What I did was put 11 into spear, and used a major rune. As a midliner, you can get away with one major. However, you can use a minor and not have any issues.

The optimal Imbagon build doesn't have any skills from command/motivation/etc. From that perspective, I don't see any reason why you couldn't use a tatics shield.

BUT you'll need to have it set at 9 unless your shield is a req8. Which means you'll be gimping your spear even more. So I wouldn't recommend it, but you can do it if you really wanted to.

Dairith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2008

Our Titles are [SiCK]

04 Aug 2008 at 01:19 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smexy Dexy

, but that 1 attribute contributes to you crit % as well as dmg, and the only time your shield is out is in an explorable area, and if your team mates are standing around looking at your shield you have bigger problems; to that end, I use all endgame greens (with the exception of my shield which is a gold, given to me by a guildie). I've spent a grand total of 0g on weps for my para

.

Edit: Nice guide, nothing that earthshaking or new, but me <3 guides. I must say though that Spear of Fury is worth it. I can fully charge SY! a majority of the time using Spear of Fury.
I run this myself (this is also posted in my para team thread; shameless plug

).
[build=SY! Player;OQGjUumI6SleWYieAh9YpbubybA]

Smexy Dexy

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2007

Souls of lost heroes

Rt/

04 Aug 2008 at 13:41 - 24

Are criticals really worth that much in HM for one attribute point?

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

04 Aug 2008 at 14:35 - 25

vacation posting >.>

On an SY! build, you only want one adrenal skill. I'll put that in the guide. Try doing SY! with gfte! on the bar as well. The SY! downtime is quite noticeable.

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

04 Aug 2008 at 15:53 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smexy Dexy

Are criticals really worth that much in HM for one attribute point? Honestly? No. Hell, I don't even notice when I do get a critical.

Like I said, you can get away just fine with 13 spear for Imbagon. Someone did the math (or Master of Damage

) and said the difference is about 4 DPS.

And Snow is right-for Imbagon you'll want only 1 adrenaline skill (i.e SY!). However, if your Kurz/Lux title is high enough, you can get away with one more, provided it's somewhere around 2-4 adrenaline (i.e [[barbed spear],[[go for the eyes],[[spear of redemption] etc.).

[[Spear of fury] is a pretty beastly skill and can help get your adrenaline up quickly. However, in an Imbagon build it's overshadowed by things like EBSoH and some of the Norn shouts (I personnally love [[you move like a dwarf]-damage, KD, and a cover condtion-nice way of shutting down a monk).

I'd keep [[spear of fury] for [[cruel spear] or [[stunning strike] builds.

Jagnot

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

Big Red Ones

P/Mo

05 Aug 2008 at 03:39 - 27

Thanks a ton for posting this guide! I was sorta losing hope in my Paragon but you made me look at him in a different light!

For some reason I previously though Aggressive Refrain sucked..

Dairith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2008

Our Titles are [SiCK]

05 Aug 2008 at 13:15 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

vacation posting >.>

On an SY! build, you only want one adrenal skill. I'll put that in the guide. Try doing SY! with gfte! on the bar as well. The SY! downtime is quite noticeable.

Using a second adrenaline skill on my bar I hardly notice a downtime in SY!; a second adrenaline skill costs me 1 strike of adrenaline on SY! effectively making it a 9 Adrenaline skill. Producing adrenaline as fast as we do, that 1 strike isn't missed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

[[Spear of Fury (Kurzick)] is a pretty beastly skill and can help get your adrenaline up quickly. However, in an Imbagon build it's overshadowed by things like EBSoH and some of the Norn shouts (I personnally love [["You Move Like a Dwarf!"]-damage, KD, and a cover condtion-nice way of shutting down a monk). I do agree, slotting [[Spear of Fury] on my bar was hard, but I found that its worth it. Filling half (if not all; Furious mod ftw

) of SY!'s adrenaline requirement in one hit is seksy. I guess it depends more on your Lux/Kurz rank. I would say that the lower your Lux/Kurz rank the more you should have [[Spear of Fury] in you bar simply because it super charges adrenaline (at r1 Lux/Kurz you get 4 adrenaline; at r12 it gives you 8 adrenaline, making it a one-hit SY! button, however at r12 you shouldn't need that).

Silversword22

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

Brotherhood of Feklaar

P/W

03 Sep 2008 at 19:55 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Racthoh's thread on being awesome:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10254869

Many have cited Racthoh's orders Dervish as clumsy.

To an extent, I agree. While the heals are nice, they can be slow and the Orders can be done more efficiently (in my not-so-humble opinion) by a Necromancer.

First of all, lemme just say that I LOVE the paragon team that Racthoh submitted. Second of all, this is a great guide. The information is nice and to the point

. Thirdly, I've been trying to find an Orders necro build to work in place of the Orders derv. Mind you, the dervish does a nice job of slapping on Dark Fury and Orders, but just to mix things up a little I like to use a Necro. The main problem I have is choosing the elite. As was stated in the guide, energy is hardly an issue with Necros, so it frees up the slot. I know there are probably tons of orders necro builds out there, but I'm just curious to see what you guys use in your paraway teams.
- - Thanks!

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

03 Sep 2008 at 20:58 - 30

Hehe... Orders didn't quite work out for me, so beside my 2 Para Heroes I tend to run a N/Rt Jagged Bomber with [Splinter [email protected]] slotted in.
Morgahn's Elite swapped to [[Anthem of Fury] to compensate.

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

04 Sep 2008 at 00:35 - 31

Other elite choices for the Orders necro:

[Vampiric Spirit] which I feel to be superior to Life Transfer due to the recent buff and shorter recharge. It has more protection but less damage than LT. With VS, you dont even need Blood Renewal.

[Aura of the Lich] reduces life sac which the dual orders necro would be doing alot every 5s. But you need to put some points into death.

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

04 Sep 2008 at 04:19 - 32

I used this N/Rt orders for about half my vanqs in Tyria:

[build prof=n/rt box name="Restoring Orders" blood=9+1+2 soulreaping=9+1 restoration=12][preservation][ghostmirror light][spirit light][mend body and soul][soothing memories][signet of lost souls][dark fury][order of pain][/build]

It worked pretty good, but I got tired of Livia saccing herself while under heavy fire. So now I use the setup I posted earlier.

For other N/Rts-in that para thread starting at page 15 or so, there is a good discussion on various ideas you can use.

Washi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

04 Sep 2008 at 08:03 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silversword22

I've been trying to find an Orders necro build to work in place of the Orders derv. Mind you, the dervish does a nice job of slapping on Dark Fury and Orders, but just to mix things up a little I like to use a Necro. The main problem I have is choosing the elite. That's what I use for racs
[build prof=N/Mo name="Orders Necro" box heal=12 blood=9+1 soul=9+1+1][Word of Healing][order of pain][dark fury][masochism][Signet of Lost Souls][dwayna's kiss][cure hex][Signet of Rejuvenation][/build]

Introverted Dimensions

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

13 Sep 2008 at 14:31 - 34

This guide is simply amazing. I think I'm going to make a para right now.

legacyofkain85

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Lady Ainowa

13 Sep 2008 at 14:32 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

preservation fails badly imo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

^
Vicious Attack + GftE is much, much better. problem is vicious +gfte in not to be trusted for applying dw imo,i prefer a skill that adds dw when i wanted

Unreal Havoc

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2007

31 Dec 2008 at 23:22 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dairith

I run this myself (this is also posted in my para team thread; shameless plug

).
[build=SY! Player;OQGjUumI6SleWYieAh9YpbubybA] Drop [Go For The Eyes] for [Anthem of Flame]

Elendhor

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

near Hamburg, Germany

Irresistible Decay [sigh]

14 Jan 2009 at 15:33 - 37

Hey guys, I really enjoyed reading this thread, because it did such a huge impact on me that I deleted my Sin today and started a Paragon

But I got a question:

Which Sunspear-Rank should I have to use TNtF effectively and have no probs maintaining it? Kurzick Title (got r10) is no big deal for SY, but I'm really sick of grinding again(although this event should speed this up).
Would r7 be enough?

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

14 Jan 2009 at 18:01 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc View Post

Drop [Go For The Eyes] for [Anthem of Flame] [Anthem of Flame] < [Anthem of weariness] It also helps proc Spear of Fury a bit easier than using it with AoF.

Also switch out "ToF!" for "FGJ!" unless you're rolling with a buncha [Searing Flames] eles or something.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

14 Jan 2009 at 18:39 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elendhor View Post

Hey guys, I really enjoyed reading this thread, because it did such a huge impact on me that I deleted my Sin today and started a Paragon

My Lipgloss is Cool

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

My Computer

Band Of The H A W K

P/Mo

15 Jan 2009 at 02:44 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elendhor View Post

Which Sunspear-Rank should I have to use TNtF effectively and have no probs maintaining it?
...
Would r7 be enough? Sunspear Rank has no effect on the duration of TNtF, only it's damage reduction and end healing. It's duration is dependent on your leadership.

And as far as grinding, there's a really fast Sunspear run just north of Gate of Desolation (Or you could always do the classic SS/LB run out of Remains of Sahlahja), and with this weekend being double SS/LB points, you should have no problem getting it to 9 really easily, and then you can even grind to 10 if you're feeling adventurous.

See two runs here: http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Suns...lfurous_Wastes (The "From Gate of Desolation" run will give you more SS points. "From Remains of Sahlahja" will give you less SS points, but will give you lots of LB points. It's the fastest LB farm, iirc))