Petition to make Shiro as badass as he was meant to be - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 16:57 - 41

Also see the reason this skill wouldn't suck is because he uses it on you, then he warps you the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO away (Echoing Banishment) so you can't attack him so you get WTFPWNED, you see. That's the combo. Tho obviously you'd need to do something about the solo builds. Possibly let him Echo Banish you if you're by yourself, for the lols.

Also, Shiro is piss easy. Assassin solo or not. That isn't being elitist. I'm not saying you suck if you can't beat him. I'm just saying if you're having any difficulty at all you seriously need to reconsider your team's build.

Quote:

On the rest: Holy shit that all looks awesome. Sign me up for Nightmare mode, please sir.

I like my idea better. Just add it to Hard Mode, so it'll actually be represenative of its name.

EDIT:
Bet anyone 50$ at least 50% of the nos said no because it would make something harder, not because its a bad idea.

JupiterStarWarrior

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2008

Oklahoma City

Noble Order Of Valiant Angels

Me/

04 Aug 2008 at 17:17 - 42

Yeah, well, it works. Besides, you only know two skills on that Skill Bar; you don't know them all. I mean, do I have Critical Defenses? Do I Shadow Step? What about getting into the chain? How do I have that?

AT ANY RATE, BACK ON TOPIC...

My vote's been cast. If you have further issues with my build, why you know how to contact me.

Tender Wolf

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona

The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN]

R/

04 Aug 2008 at 17:33 - 43

No thanks, the difficulty for Shiro and all end-game bosses is fine as it is.

If they are going to change any of the end-game missions, they should change Hell's Precipice and make it like the others, so that the final boss is right there and it doesn't take you an hour just to get to the Lich and then die after all that.

FlamingMetroid

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

standing on your last control point, while the rest of your team is to busy killing mine

The Luminaries [Lumi]

A/

04 Aug 2008 at 17:37 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

No thanks, the difficulty for Shiro and all end-game bosses is fine as it is.

If they are going to change any of the end-game missions, they should change Hell's Precipice and make it like the others, so that the final boss is right there and it doesn't take you an hour just to get to the Lich and then die after all that.

Tenderwolf thinks that Shiro is fine, and Hell's is to hard
I think we have a /thread here

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 17:37 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

No thanks, the difficulty for Shiro and all end-game bosses is fine as it is.

If they are going to change any of the end-game missions, they should change Hell's Precipice and make it like the others, so that the final boss is right there and it doesn't take you an hour just to get to the Lich and then die after all that.

I think the reason they did that is because it's completely impossible for the Lich to kill you.

Seriously.

Unless if all your monks get stoned, you all walk into the lava and run around in circles in it until you die while singing Freebird on vent, it is impossible to lose to him. He has like, no way to kill you. At all. Hell, sometimes he even teleports himself into lava. He's that dumb.

Quote:

Yeah, well, it works. Besides, you only know two skills on that Skill Bar; you don't know them all. I mean, do I have Critical Defenses? Do I Shadow Step? What about getting into the chain? How do I have that?

I think you misread. I said Shiro is easy, Assassin solo build or not. As in, he's easy whether you use that or not. It's nothing special. He's piss easy to defeat because he's just one guy. Just build against him and you win.

Earth

Always Outnumbered

Join Date: Jul 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 17:42 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Also see the reason this skill wouldn't suck is because he uses it on you, then he warps you the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO away (Echoing Banishment) so you can't attack him so you get WTFPWNED, you see. That's the combo. Tho obviously you'd need to do something about the solo builds. Possibly let him Echo Banish you if you're by yourself, for the lols.

I really doubt Shiro would cast Echoing banishment right after Suicidal Impulse tbh. Unless they change his AI. Anyway, I really wouldn't mind if they added this, he'll still be easy, unless they change his AI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

No thanks, the difficulty for Shiro and all end-game bosses is fine as it is.

If they are going to change any of the end-game missions, they should change Hell's Precipice and make it like the others, so that the final boss is right there and it doesn't take you an hour just to get to the Lich and then die after all that.

Yeah but, you know...

Tender Wolf

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona

The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN]

R/

04 Aug 2008 at 17:43 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid

Tenderwolf thinks that Shiro is fine, and Hell's is to hard
I think we have a /thread here

I don't think Lich is hard, just annoying that you have to go through all those dumb titans and Rurik to get to him.

But yes I do think Shiro is fine, same with Abaddon. Great Destroyer, meh I got ran through that so I don't know. lol

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

04 Aug 2008 at 17:47 - 48

I'm always for making end-game bosses harder. It saddens me that I went through hours of content to fight someone who was said to be omgsuperstrong throughout the storyline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

No thanks, the difficulty for Shiro and all end-game bosses is fine as it is.

If they are going to change any of the end-game missions, they should change Hell's Precipice and make it like the others, so that the final boss is right there and it doesn't take you an hour just to get to the Lich and then die after all that.

Pretty sure end game bosses are supposed to be challenging. All you have to do is use pain inverter and watch your h/h destroy the boss. Far from being remotely challenging.

And no, hell's shouldn't be changed. In fact, all the other end-game missions should. Having a mission and the end-game boss fight is a perfect idea. Also, an hour? Seriously? That's....sad.

Quote:

He's not that hard if you are a group of people who know what you are doing man.

I love how heroes and henchies are better than most PvE players playing Guild Wars.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 17:48 - 49

Quote:

I really doubt Shiro would cast Echoing banishment right after Suicidal Impulse tbh. Unless they change his AI. Anyway, I really wouldn't mind if they added this, he'll still be easy, unless they change his AI.

AFAIK that was how it originally worked. GW uses a pretty unsophisticated AI system, so I don't see this being much of a problem to change at all.

Quote:

I love how heroes and henchies are better than most PvE players playing Guild Wars.

lol.

At least Norgu knows he's good.

And hey, they don't use Ursan either!

Elder III

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2007

Ohio

I Will Never Join Your Guild (NTY)

R/

04 Aug 2008 at 17:57 - 50

go fight undead shiro in NF if you want badazz and leave factions shiro alone imo if you want a challenger take him on with different skills instead of the same old same old, be creative, it's not that hard.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 18:07 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elder III

go fight undead shiro in NF if you want badazz and leave factions shiro alone imo if you want a challenger take him on with different skills instead of the same old same old, be creative, it's not that hard.

oh lawdy another person who thinks I should neuter myself and no game company should ever have an actual challenge in their game.

Yeah buddy, they could remove all the ghosts from Pac-Man except 1 and if I wanted a challenge I could whip out my private parts to control Pac-Man, but that's not good game design. Sorry. It's up the game company to provide the challenge, not the players. You aren't supposed to let them be lazy. Also Undead Shiro is even easier than Factions Shiro, ok. Don't see your point there at all.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

04 Aug 2008 at 18:35 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elder III

go fight undead shiro in NF if you want badazz and leave factions shiro alone imo if you want a challenger take him on with different skills instead of the same old same old, be creative, it's not that hard.

The Shiro in gates of madness is easier than the shiro in imperial sanctum.

Also, there's a difference between gimping yourself to create a challenge and a challenge. The former is bad, the latter isn't.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 19:02 - 53

Honestly, if you want to make Shiro challenging, give him this skill, make him use it as a combo, and throw in a few more (level 20) enemies that uses hexes and stuff in HM. Not only with this stop solo play (which is good.) and AT LEAST require H/H, but it will also make it a funner challenge. You'd need the enemies to have hexes because otherwise a fast monk could just dehex Suicidal Impulse off the banished person, so make it harder to do so if the Monks aren't keeping up.

Could probably give them some dehexes...imo, mesmer foes with Expel Hexes and a couple of hex skills.

Sounds good to me...

.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

04 Aug 2008 at 19:06 - 54

Does sound good, bust sadly won't happen because of all the whining that would go around. ANet can't afford losing even more GW2 customers as they already have.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 19:09 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Does sound good, bust sadly won't happen because of all the whining that would go around. ANet can't afford losing even more GW2 customers as they already have.

QQ

I remember this company that was trying to do this really awesome idea, and when they got started everyone laughed at them. The other companies said "lol, an orpg...for free? you're kidding me." and "lol. you're new and doing an ORPG." and "LOL NO GRIND" and "you're going to make a completely instanced ORPG, for free, with challenging gameplay...lol?". This company set out to be unique, and do what no other company had done before.

I'd tell you it was ArenaNet, but I couldn't safely say they are that company anymore.

:/

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

04 Aug 2008 at 19:55 - 56

Well, at least an Ursan only team can't beat him since thye can't remove stances, XD.

Don Doggy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

W/

04 Aug 2008 at 20:00 - 57

/signed
Shiro is easy enough give him something else to make him harder.

JupiterStarWarrior

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2008

Oklahoma City

Noble Order Of Valiant Angels

Me/

04 Aug 2008 at 20:24 - 58

No. I didn't misread; I read between the lines: YOU think Shiro is easy (Factions or Nightfall version); I do not. Besides, I've still yet to try to fight him in Hard Mode. That could be a lot of fun.

AT ANY RATE, I'm wondering if you thought he was "super-OH, MY GOD, HE'S A N00B" easy the first time you fought him, eh? o_O;

(((NOTE: It's obvious that our opinions are not going to change, so let's stop the arguing, yes?)))

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

04 Aug 2008 at 20:47 - 59

Well, shiro is actually cheap if you know what to do.

Remove stances and deal a lot of low damage hits, and he's done.

Do not remove his stances and deal him high damage hits and you are done.

That's mostly all about it. You can make it easer with conditions, damage reversals and such, but the main point are those two.

VinnyRidira

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2007

Ridirian Guides

W/Me

04 Aug 2008 at 21:00 - 60

If you want him to be harder go in with a party of 8 with 5 skills or a party of 5 with 8 skills.

/notsigned

FlamingMetroid

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

standing on your last control point, while the rest of your team is to busy killing mine

The Luminaries [Lumi]

A/

04 Aug 2008 at 21:13 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by JupiterStarWarrior

AT ANY RATE, I'm wondering if you thought he was "super-OH, MY GOD, HE'S A N00B" easy the first time you fought him, eh? o_O;

I was so baed I was using fire magic on my assassin back then and I still thought he was a pushover :|

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 21:36 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyRidira

If you want him to be harder go in with a party of 8 with 5 skills or a party of 5 with 8 skills.

/notsigned

Way to read the topic.

Quote:

Yeah buddy, they could remove all the ghosts from Pac-Man except 1 and if I wanted a challenge I could whip out my private parts to control Pac-Man, but that's not good game design. Sorry. It's up the game company to provide the challenge, not the players. You aren't supposed to let them be lazy.

dragonx1013

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2008

Elite Syndocate of the Phoenix

D/

04 Aug 2008 at 21:55 - 63

Signed on one condition. DON'T add this skill when you (SPOILER Don't read on if you don't want to spoil the game) have to fight Shiro in Nightfall. Without the celestial skill I found him very difficult and had to get a full correlating team of humans (for some people who like to go on with the henchmen, its difficult. I know there are strategies, but if you have to use a certain strategy to win, then its not fun). Add it in Hard Mode, and its all good with me.

Kanyatta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Guildless, pm me

R/Mo

04 Aug 2008 at 22:31 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Here's reasons you should add it:
-The icon looks badass.
-The icon looks cool (very important)

I stopped reading here. You lost all credibility as soon as you used "badass" as a reason... twice... three times if you count the thread name. Unless you're 11 years old, then I might let it slide.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

05 Aug 2008 at 05:35 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

I stopped reading here. You lost all credibility as soon as you used "badass" as a reason... twice... three times if you count the thread name. Unless you're 11 years old, then I might let it slide.

Kanyatta, it's badass dude.

I mean come on, it's like emo Shiro except he kills your party when he slices himself, clearly this should be done okay. Don't get caught up on the word choice, get caught up in what this means for Shiro...he's been crying for buffs for weeks...

mastermaxx1

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

05 Aug 2008 at 06:37 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

(fun fact: you use all your skills from rings, lol. Hence the name Signets.).

If this is true then the number of skills you can have in your skill bar is limited to the number of fingers you have. Most humans have a total of 10 fingers, but there are 8 skill slots currently available on the skill bar (unless you don't count thumbs). Does this mean that if your char was born with an extra finger he could use an extra skill, or could you put the rings on your toes and double your number of available skills?

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

05 Aug 2008 at 06:44 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by mastermaxx1

If this is true then the number of skills you can have in your skill bar is limited to the number of fingers you have. Most humans have a total of 10 fingers, but there are 8 skill slots currently available on the skill bar (unless you don't count thumbs). Does this mean that if your char was born with an extra finger he could use an extra skill, or could you put the rings on your toes and double your number of available skills?

I think the original lore reason was that any number of rings beyond 8 was dangerous because their combined power & energies would basically destroy any human or whatever.

It is true though.

Signets are rings that are built to not cost energy (energy of your character to unleash the power inside the ring). There's nothing in-game that shows this anymore tho :/. But originally you got skills through skill rings, had skill keychains, skill gems (to put in a ring), etc.

Dark Paladin X

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

A/

05 Aug 2008 at 11:41 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

He's not that hard if you are a group of people who know what you are doing man.

If you are doing this with heroes and henchies, you are in a world of hurt, they really don't know how to kite well.

Faer

La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

Join Date: Feb 2006

05 Aug 2008 at 11:45 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

uh:
Impossible Odds+ Battle Scars. Shiro is already hard as it is. And don't forget Meditation of the Reaper.

Anything that can be beaten with 8 Warriors swinging axes around and using crummy Healing Prayers spells is not "hard". Not in my books, anyway.

Accursed

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

05 Aug 2008 at 11:54 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

uh:
Impossible Odds+ Battle Scars. Shiro is already hard as it is. And don't forget Meditation of the Reaper.

Shiro is the easiest out of the 4 end game bosses.

You could take 8 elementalists and destroy him with their celestial skills.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

05 Aug 2008 at 18:03 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

If you are doing this with heroes and henchies, you are in a world of hurt, they really don't know how to kite well.

Nope.

I didn't even need any anti-melee hexes. (Gwen just had Echo. No joke.)

Pretty sure he's piss easy. If you have problems with heroes kiting, l2flag them.

I even used a pretty low setup for that mission just to prove my point, you'll notice I have 370 HP instead of 500+, only have 1 (very bad) bonus weapon, and had Conjure Lightning on bar just for Ether Renewal.

My heroes are using pretty subpar equipment as well, with no runes in their armor because I am cheap and haven't gotten around to spending my other 100k yet.

I beat him in like 45 seconds, by the way.

EDIT:
^No, the Lich is. The Lich couldn't kill you if he wanted to. Shiro can.

mastermaxx1

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

05 Aug 2008 at 23:24 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

I think the original lore reason was that any number of rings beyond 8 was dangerous because their combined power & energies would basically destroy any human or whatever.

It is true though.

Signets are rings that are built to not cost energy (energy of your character to unleash the power inside the ring). There's nothing in-game that shows this anymore tho :/. But originally you got skills through skill rings, had skill keychains, skill gems (to put in a ring), etc.

I thought that was pretty interesting, nice fact

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

05 Aug 2008 at 23:32 - 73

Quote:

AT ANY RATE, I'm wondering if you thought he was "super-OH, MY GOD, HE'S A N00B" easy the first time you fought him, eh? o_O;

As a matter of fact, I did. Same with the other 3 end-game bosses.

Quote:

(((NOTE: It's obvious that our opinions are not going to change, so let's stop the arguing, yes?)))

Welcome to discussion forums.

Quote:

If you want him to be harder go in with a party of 8 with 5 skills or a party of 5 with 8 skills.

Why? Gimping yourself to create a challenge is very different from playing your best with a challenge.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

06 Aug 2008 at 11:41 - 74

Quote:

Why? Gimping yourself to create a challenge is very different from playing your best with a challenge.

The truth. I even gimped myself pretty hard but not directly on purpose. Part of it was me being lazy, another part was because I screwed up, and the rest was for the lolz. My monk had 5 skills, Gwen had 1, Jora had 4 (I accidentally had the other 4 disabled from a previous mission), I had subpar Health, I had terrible weapons, my heroes had absolutely no runes and stock weapons except for Jora. I had no rezzes either! (Cept for the henchies)

It was still ez so. :|

The only end boss which gave me difficulty was Abaddon at first, but only because I was literally trying to attack him cause I was tired as shit. <.<

45 people obviously suck because they don't understand what badassery obviously means. Badass OWNS.

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

06 Aug 2008 at 14:42 - 75

I think Construct Possession is used by the ghostly, untargettable Shiro in Sunjiang District.

Regarding killing Shiro without a stance-breaker: My Warrior did so for sport. Before Nightfall. With a build that started off using Quivering Blade and a bunch of other high-damage adrenal attacks. (I upgraded to Dragon Slash since.)

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

06 Aug 2008 at 15:09 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

I think Construct Possession is used by the ghostly, untargettable Shiro in Sunjiang District.

Regarding killing Shiro without a stance-breaker: My Warrior did so for sport. Before Nightfall. With a build that started off using Quivering Blade and a bunch of other high-damage adrenal attacks. (I upgraded to Dragon Slash since.)

Nein, Construct Possession isn't used on him. You can see what skills monsters use in the .dat.

EternalTempest

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

United States

Dark Side Ofthe Moon [DSM]

E/

06 Aug 2008 at 15:42 - 77

/not signed

Shirow is a *single* lvl 20 badass
Your group is 8 lvl 20 hero's of legend aided by a powerful dragon...

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

06 Aug 2008 at 16:06 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

/not signed

Shirow is a *single* lvl 20 badass
Your group is 8 lvl 20 hero's of legend aided by a powerful dragon...

A: Shiro is level 30, 32 in Hard Mode.

B: If it's unfair odds as you stated, wouldn't it be best to make him harder?

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

06 Aug 2008 at 16:26 - 79

Come on guys, BADASS. BADASS. BADASS. BADASS.

Sign that stuff.

Also yes it is 8v1, so he should be challenging to accomodate those odds...

Kanyatta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Guildless, pm me

R/Mo

06 Aug 2008 at 16:33 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Kanyatta, it's badass dude.

I mean come on, it's like emo Shiro except he kills your party when he slices himself, clearly this should be done okay. Don't get caught up on the word choice, get caught up in what this means for Shiro...he's been crying for buffs for weeks...

OK, I would /sign something to make Shiro more difficult; but if the reasoning behind which skills to be implemented is how "badass" or "cool" it is, I just can't get on board.