PvE skills are tied to grind , which makes them very different than the anti grind concept of GW.
My proposal is that the power of the skill in question is tied to the story rather than a title.
For example the power of the norn , asura , ebon and dwarven skills will be scaled to to advancement of the story. After completing the main quests (and side quests maybe) in NM you would have the skills at r6 or r8 of their power. By doing all the primary quests in HM the power of the skills would be equivalent to r10.
The SS and LB skills would be tied to mission completition , and kurzick/luzon skills to number of missions and quests completed.
Those who want the titles can still grind them , but it won't make them more powerful just by grinding.
Your thoughts on this idea?
Suggestion regarding PvE skills and titles
kostolomac
Mortal Amongst Mere Gods
This would be a good idea, but I think it's too easy that way. People would have Ursan, Pain Inverter, Brawling Headbutt, etc., up to effective r10 way too easily. It's still a good idea, though. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate being saved the grind.
/undecided
/undecided
Tyla
I'd rather have it based on attribution, but this sounds quite nice too.
/Signed because removing beneficial grind as far as possible is always good.
/Signed because removing beneficial grind as far as possible is always good.
Zeerok
/signed
I especially like the idea for Kurzick/Luxon titles, because not many people have the time to get r12 Kurzick/Luxon.
I especially like the idea for Kurzick/Luxon titles, because not many people have the time to get r12 Kurzick/Luxon.
Karate Jesus
Idk, I think this would piss a lot of people off who had to grind forever to get these titles maxed.
I agree that the skills and titles go against the "anti-grind" mentality of the game, but this sounds too easy. Honestly, I would be R10 everything now on like 4 characters. And I'm only R10 Norn and Asuran on one char.
And I'm only R5 kurz, and that took forever. I'd love to be R12 kurz, but I think this would be an insult to the people who had to struggle to earn it.
I agree that the skills and titles go against the "anti-grind" mentality of the game, but this sounds too easy. Honestly, I would be R10 everything now on like 4 characters. And I'm only R10 Norn and Asuran on one char.
And I'm only R5 kurz, and that took forever. I'd love to be R12 kurz, but I think this would be an insult to the people who had to struggle to earn it.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mortal Amongst Mere Gods
People would have Ursan, Pain Inverter, Brawling Headbutt, etc., up to effective r10 way too easily.
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/signed
And make the campaign harder.
Pyra Fade
/signed
grind is ftl
although i agree with what Karate Jesus is sayin about ppl bein pissed that actually grinded those titles. but i think what the OP is talkin about is having the skills not tied to titles. meaning getting the titles themselves to display would still require grind, but having greater functionality out of the skills would be based on missions/quests
i like it, because ppl that want to show off huge titles, can grind for it. ppl that want to play, can get to playin imo
grind is ftl
although i agree with what Karate Jesus is sayin about ppl bein pissed that actually grinded those titles. but i think what the OP is talkin about is having the skills not tied to titles. meaning getting the titles themselves to display would still require grind, but having greater functionality out of the skills would be based on missions/quests
i like it, because ppl that want to show off huge titles, can grind for it. ppl that want to play, can get to playin imo
Zahr Dalsk
Trouble is most people with the skills at max title hate the idea that others can attain it too. They still get theirs - but they don't want others to get it.
Same with the event hats. People with the hats hate the idea that newer players be given a chance to have the hats too, even though it's not like the newer players are going to take their hats >.>
Same with the event hats. People with the hats hate the idea that newer players be given a chance to have the hats too, even though it's not like the newer players are going to take their hats >.>
Luminarus
Maybe if they included dungeons for the eotn title track, luxon/kurzick quests and ss/lb quests, otherwise too easy for everyone. Also, getting like r5 is pis easy, and the bonus from the skills are usually irrelevant of rank, EG PI Still kills an ele regardless of r1, or r10. Finish Him, same thing, Yes they are better higher ranks, but not to such the extent that you must have r10 to use em effectively.
Except Ursan, where its just so that u get the most damage, and even then its only because Ursan is retarded, and hopefully gone.
Except Ursan, where its just so that u get the most damage, and even then its only because Ursan is retarded, and hopefully gone.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
Idk, I think this would piss a lot of people off who had to grind forever to get these titles maxed.
I agree that the skills and titles go against the "anti-grind" mentality of the game, but this sounds too easy. Honestly, I would be R10 everything now on like 4 characters. And I'm only R10 Norn and Asuran on one char. And I'm only R5 kurz, and that took forever. I'd love to be R12 kurz, but I think this would be an insult to the people who had to struggle to earn it. |
Karate Jesus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Trouble is most people with the skills at max title hate the idea that others can attain it too. They still get theirs - but they don't want others to get it.
Same with the event hats. People with the hats hate the idea that newer players be given a chance to have the hats too, even though it's not like the newer players are going to take their hats >.> |
I think it's hard for players, who have devoted a lot of time and energy into earning something, see another player who only had to do 1/2 the work or less.
And in response to the event masks thing. I think it's ok that you have to be there to get the hat. It kind of commemorates the event for that person. I ended up paying tons of money to get the Victory Tokens for a Grasping Mask at the last second (I was gone during the event). I would be pretty upset if someone was able to walk up to the festival hat maker and just buy the same thing for 10g later.
In the end, it's kind of just unfair.
Gun Pierson
/signed
As it would achieve one of my three wishes regarding titles and skills:
1) remove skills linked to title grind, but by completing quests like in prophecies
2) remove titles and emotes from the game
3) remove HoM from the game
On a side note, I have a full hall, I'm at 25 titles and well capable of getting 30. But I refuse to go on with this nonsense and willing to give it all back to Anet.
As it would achieve one of my three wishes regarding titles and skills:
1) remove skills linked to title grind, but by completing quests like in prophecies
2) remove titles and emotes from the game
3) remove HoM from the game
On a side note, I have a full hall, I'm at 25 titles and well capable of getting 30. But I refuse to go on with this nonsense and willing to give it all back to Anet.
Kanyatta
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mortal Amongst Mere Gods
This would be a good idea, but I think it's too easy that way. People would have Ursan, Pain Inverter, Brawling Headbutt, etc., up to effective r10 way too easily. It's still a good idea, though. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate being saved the grind.
/undecided |
Marverick
How about making another attribute line specifically for PvE skills? More points in that attribute increases the power of PvE skills.
Dark Paladin X
/notsigned for a variety of reasons:
1) Doing the missions and quests in Hard Mode would be a total hell (particularly if you are facing destroyers and the charr in EotN, sheezz).
2) The purpose of the PvE skills using the rep system is meant to train your reputation via farming and killing monsters to get to the rank you want. In other words, the more you kill, the stronger your skill gets.
3) Getting to the rank you desire is easily done via books, although like I said, doing missions in HM would be total hell.
Like what Karate Jesus said, it would be unfair for those who put lots of effort to gain the title (like me putting a hell lot of effort in farming the UW with perma-Shadow and later nerfing the spell, which they plan to nerf it even further by making it unmaintainable). As for sunspear/lightbringer titles, just use junjuru FTW.
1) Doing the missions and quests in Hard Mode would be a total hell (particularly if you are facing destroyers and the charr in EotN, sheezz).
2) The purpose of the PvE skills using the rep system is meant to train your reputation via farming and killing monsters to get to the rank you want. In other words, the more you kill, the stronger your skill gets.
3) Getting to the rank you desire is easily done via books, although like I said, doing missions in HM would be total hell.
Like what Karate Jesus said, it would be unfair for those who put lots of effort to gain the title (like me putting a hell lot of effort in farming the UW with perma-Shadow and later nerfing the spell, which they plan to nerf it even further by making it unmaintainable). As for sunspear/lightbringer titles, just use junjuru FTW.
Gill Halendt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kostolomac
PvE skills are tied to grind
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The best effectiveness of a PvE skill is a bonus rewarded for the extra work implied by improving/maxing the title. Even if it's just "grind", is something you have to work for to get the best out of it. Don't mind maxing the title? PvE skills still work fine, even at lower ranks in their respective title tracks.
Standard skills usually work better at higher levels of their attributes. Yet, you don't ever have to use superior runes to use them preperly.
draxynnic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
I don't think it's quite like that.
I think it's hard for players, who have devoted a lot of time and energy into earning something, see another player who only had to do 1/2 the work or less. And in response to the event masks thing. I think it's ok that you have to be there to get the hat. It kind of commemorates the event for that person. I ended up paying tons of money to get the Victory Tokens for a Grasping Mask at the last second (I was gone during the event). I would be pretty upset if someone was able to walk up to the festival hat maker and just buy the same thing for 10g later. In the end, it's kind of just unfair. |
Perhaps a compromise could be to provide some sort of vanity item - maybe a special form of the title - to people who already have the title at max at the time of the update. Announce this far enough in advance so that people who are almost there know to hurry it up and get there beforehand - possibly combined with a few double-points weekends to facilitate this.
upier
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marverick
How about making another attribute line specifically for PvE skills? More points in that attribute increases the power of PvE skills.
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Although I wouldn't add ONE line - I'd add a line for EACH title.
/signed for a change
/not signed for the one desired by the OP
Thizzle
Before we all say "It would be too easy", let's take a moment to think about that. Is completing the Eye of The North storyline and primary quests within it hard? No. Is running around outside Olafstead racking up a couple thousand points every time hard? No, but is it time consuming and pointless? Yes. The thing is the reputation titles were never skill > time, but the exact opposite. It's the same with every other reputation title. It's all time > skill. If you can take the time to run the exact same path, area, and kill the all the enemies in the exact order or close every time then what is the point?
This is how I feel. Make the reputation titles either account wide or simply make them more powerful as you progress through the storyline. I don't know about Kurzick and Luxon faction because Alliance Battles are tied into that, but the other 6 can easily be done this way. By making the skills more powerful as you progress this would make me want to actually finish the campaign even though I already have. I'm saying if I play another character because let's face it I'm sick of taking a new guy and go farm norn points in Olafstead because going through the campaign again just to complete a book is too boring.
It's supposed to be about fun not spending hours grinding to get the max rank. Many people do this because it's tied back to the fact that they can't get into groups for elite areas because nobody wants anything, but r8-10 ursan.
Let's get to the point.
/signed.
This is how I feel. Make the reputation titles either account wide or simply make them more powerful as you progress through the storyline. I don't know about Kurzick and Luxon faction because Alliance Battles are tied into that, but the other 6 can easily be done this way. By making the skills more powerful as you progress this would make me want to actually finish the campaign even though I already have. I'm saying if I play another character because let's face it I'm sick of taking a new guy and go farm norn points in Olafstead because going through the campaign again just to complete a book is too boring.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
PvE skills are actually tied to titles. You don't have to grind any of the titles to play the game, nor it's mandatory to use any of the PvE skills to do it.
The best effectiveness of a PvE skill is a bonus rewarded for the extra work implied by improving/maxing the title. Even if it's just "grind", is something you have to work for to get the best out of it. Don't mind maxing the title? PvE skills still work fine, even at lower ranks in their respective title tracks. Standard skills usually work better at higher levels of their attributes. Yet, you don't ever have to use superior runes to use them preperly. |
Let's get to the point.
/signed.
Axel Zinfandel
/signed
Mine as well kill two birds with one stone. I WANT to have more of a reason to play the actual game, but have no reason to due to extreme lack of reward in doing so. I like the gameplay now, but I like the days of Proph. campaign, where once you -hit- level 20, you were almost finished. Nowadays it's like winning the lottery. Once you win (hit level 20, by comparison), why work?
Mine as well kill two birds with one stone. I WANT to have more of a reason to play the actual game, but have no reason to due to extreme lack of reward in doing so. I like the gameplay now, but I like the days of Proph. campaign, where once you -hit- level 20, you were almost finished. Nowadays it's like winning the lottery. Once you win (hit level 20, by comparison), why work?
X Joey X
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I don't think it's quite like that. I think it's hard for players, who have devoted a lot of time and energy into earning something, see another player who only had to do 1/2 the work or less. |
Gill Halendt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thizzle
It's supposed to be about fun not spending hours grinding to get the max rank.
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I have lots of fun with all of my 11 characters and only my main has maxed all the rep titles in the game and my favourite secondary just got LB/SS. My mesmer runs Cry of Pain sometimes, and he's just Sunspear Castellan. Sure, he could deal more damage with it with higher ranks in the Sunspear title track, but he's no less fun to play.
You know... I'd really love to get a 60" plasma TV set. Shame I have a family and my monthly wage has more urgent destinations than this. Sure, I can afford it if I save a little here and there, do a little sacrifice... And maybe some tedious overtime @ work. I want it, I work for it. Otherwise the standard CRT 32" TV I own is more than enough for watching DVDs.
There's a difference between necessity and wish. GW is not about grinding, people made it so by giving more relevance to titles than fun. As fas as I know, GW can be played wonderfully even without any single maxed title. PuGs don't accept players with non-max Norn title? Fine with me, that's not a group I'd like to play with anyway. You don't really believe they're going to have fun, do you? They're just hoarding virtual money clearing elite areas with mindless skills. Find groups of people who actually play for fun, if there is any left. Then your skillbar and your titles won't matter that much anymore.
The fact you can grind your titles, farm insane amounts of money and get cool looking stuff for your characters doesn't mean you must do it.
Hyper.nl
/notsigned
Because it is too easy / lazy. You are supposed to do SOMETHING for those skills to be efficient, not just playing through the storyline in NM.
Because it is too easy / lazy. You are supposed to do SOMETHING for those skills to be efficient, not just playing through the storyline in NM.
Accursed
/signed - It would make the titles alot easier to obtain.
kostolomac
It seems people misunderstood me.
I never said that the title will progress with the storyline , you can still grind them titles all you want. The skills in question wouldn't be tied to the title , but to the progress with that faction.
Also , a special attribute for pve skills is a nice idea also.
I never said that the title will progress with the storyline , you can still grind them titles all you want. The skills in question wouldn't be tied to the title , but to the progress with that faction.
Also , a special attribute for pve skills is a nice idea also.
Gill Halendt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kostolomac
I never said that the title will progress with the storyline , you can still grind them titles all you want. The skills in question wouldn't be tied to the title , but to the progress with that faction.
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Then came those sometimes ridicolously overpowered skills. Sunspear, Norn, Asura, Vanguard, Deldrimor and the likes. Basically, you're suggesting max skills after just completing the whole storyline. So, I should have max skills with most of my characters, since almost all of them have gone through Nightfall and Eye Of The North. Max Ursan without even that little effort is needed now...
No, thanks, that's plain ridicolous, unless PvE only skill are toned down considerably, or allowed only in their respective areas.
romeus petrus
Im all for anything that would remove the rewards for grinding. Linking massively overpowered skills to title grinding never made sense to me. If you like to grind for some lame line under your name, feel free to grind till you drop. Just dont let it affect gameplay.
/signed
/signed
Thizzle
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hyper.nl
/notsigned
Because it is too easy / lazy. You are supposed to do SOMETHING for those skills to be efficient, not just playing through the storyline in NM. |
MithranArkanere
Finish the campaign and you automatically get the max Normal rank. Finish the Campaign in hard mode and you get the max HM rank.
That way people would be able to:
- Grind to get the title: Your reward is having an advantage that makes playing easier.
- Play without the advantage: Your reward is getting the title.
Makes perfect sense to me.
That way people would be able to:
- Grind to get the title: Your reward is having an advantage that makes playing easier.
- Play without the advantage: Your reward is getting the title.
Makes perfect sense to me.
Kattar
Wow...I really like this. Like...I don't even know what to say.
I don't necessarily care about making the titles easier to obtain - you should have to grind those if you want. But as far as power increases within the titles go, this is a completely valid idea.
/signed x1000
I don't necessarily care about making the titles easier to obtain - you should have to grind those if you want. But as far as power increases within the titles go, this is a completely valid idea.
/signed x1000
kazi_saki
/signed. It makes sense anyways. It's not about the hardness or whatever since its just there for fun 
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
PvE skills are actually tied to titles.
|
Quote:
| You don't have to grind any of the titles to play the game, nor it's mandatory to use any of the PvE skills to do it. |
Quote:
| The best effectiveness of a PvE skill is a bonus rewarded for the extra work implied by improving/maxing the title. Even if it's just "grind", is something you have to work for to get the best out of it. Don't mind maxing the title? PvE skills still work fine, even at lower ranks in their respective title tracks. |
Quote:
| Standard skills usually work better at higher levels of their attributes. Yet, you don't ever have to use superior runes to use them preperly. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hyper.nl
/notsigned
Because it is too easy / lazy. You are supposed to do SOMETHING for those skills to be efficient, not just playing through the storyline in NM. |
Abedeus
Less grind more pew pew
/signed
/signed
glacialphoenix
Less grind please.
/signed.
/signed.
MisterB
I'd like to see attribute points added for the title tracks, with increased levels in the title having a rune-like effect. The ranges for the PvE skills would probably need an adjustment. As an example of what I mean, you could spend attribute points for your Norn title up to 12 like your regular attributes, and rank 10 would grant +3 like a superior rune.
I like the OP's idea as well; I'll support any method to divorce the PvE skills from grinding titles.
I like the OP's idea as well; I'll support any method to divorce the PvE skills from grinding titles.
VinnyRidira
/signed
Grinding to get better skills is like levelling up past 20.
Grinding to get better skills is like levelling up past 20.
dragonx1013
Either way, people who want to max out the titles will do so. I personally do not because as I have stated in other posts, I do not like to repeat the same actions over, and over, and over again (also known as farming). I have done so many UB runs, it makes my eyes bleed to see olafstead.
With that said, I think it is a good idea to tie the skills to completion of the campaign. I would leave it to ANet to decide at what level does it become powerful, I would say each mission gives you +1 level, then each mission in hard mode gives you +1 level. The missing levels could be given when you complete all the side quests.
Consider though what could the bounties offer? They would be removed from the game and that is a drastic change to the game system. People like the idea of bounties, and if you remember, you can always grab them when you go out questing. You also get a generous rep boost for trading in hero's handbooks, and that's kina like a mutated version of what we are talking about. (finish the game and get points. And after a certain amount of points you can do it in hardmode). Whichever path the player chooses is their own, if a player wants to grind then let them. I prefer the story way, to me, much less boring.
Because of the boost from handbook's, and the removal of bounties (and editing of some quests too) seeing as how they would be useless...
/Unsigned
With that said, I think it is a good idea to tie the skills to completion of the campaign. I would leave it to ANet to decide at what level does it become powerful, I would say each mission gives you +1 level, then each mission in hard mode gives you +1 level. The missing levels could be given when you complete all the side quests.
Consider though what could the bounties offer? They would be removed from the game and that is a drastic change to the game system. People like the idea of bounties, and if you remember, you can always grab them when you go out questing. You also get a generous rep boost for trading in hero's handbooks, and that's kina like a mutated version of what we are talking about. (finish the game and get points. And after a certain amount of points you can do it in hardmode). Whichever path the player chooses is their own, if a player wants to grind then let them. I prefer the story way, to me, much less boring.
Because of the boost from handbook's, and the removal of bounties (and editing of some quests too) seeing as how they would be useless...
/Unsigned
Cathode_Reborn
Less grind and more play? In GW? This is madness!
/signed
/signed
Gill Halendt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tyla
The point is they still give benefits. If it was cosmetic I wouldn't be as spiteful to this sort of thing.
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I mean, don't get me wrong, I like the idea of removing the link between titles and PvE-only skills. As said, grinding is against the game concept and is way too boring.
But then, PvE-only skill must be toned down accordingly, max skills should not be that powerful. Getting better skills while progressing in the storyline is fine and makes perfect sense for me too, I just don't see any single reason why imba skills should come for free for just beating the game in a few hours.
Please, don't be hypocrite. People have been bashing PvE-skills and UB everyday. This idea cheapens those skills even more, you're basically asking to have the equivalent of a max Pain Inverter or Ursan Blessing without doing even the simplest task you've been asked up to now, even if boring.
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
An OPTIONAL benefit, in exchange of the time spent grinding the title.
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Quote:
| Please, don't be hypocrite. People have been bashing PvE-skills and UB everyday. This idea cheapens those skills even more, you're basically asking to have the equivalent of a max Pain Inverter or Ursan Blessing without doing even the simplest task you've been asked up to now, even if boring. |
How does this "cheapen" those skills when you can simple do the same thing over and over with ease? Grind has never been hard, and just because it reduces the amount of grind needed to join PuGs or gain additional benefits powered on grind wouldn't make these skills "cheap", they would just be easier to gain a max advantage of.