Dervish Skill Updates

shoyon456

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

Dervish

[Onslaught] : increased Energy cost to 10. Functionality changed to: "(5..20 seconds.) You attack and move 25% faster."

Okay, so pretty much a perma ias and speed buff, but still tame compared to radical skill buffs. I would suggest simply making it 33%.



[Vow of Strength] : functionality changed to: "(20 seconds.) Adds +5..35% damage to your attacks against foes not suffering from any conditions."

Pointless in PvP (which is where I assume anet intended this update to shake things up, and still less effective in PvE than before. In fact, if you look at other skills in the Earth Prayers line, you'll realize that you can hardly use another spell, such as: [aura of thorns] without loosing the effect.

If they planned on changing this skill (which was unneccessary), I would have suggested making it similar to this [shield of force]. It would sound something like: For 1...10 seconds, your next attack (notice attack skills are still OK) does +5...41% damage. And give it something like a 5 sec recharge.



[Zealous Vow] : increased Energy gained per hit to 1..7; decreased to -3 Energy degeneration.

Fair enough, makes this skill a little more appealing, but not by much.


Really though, I feel my main got shafted during this "monster update" that was designed to make unused skills somewhat usable. I'm quite disappointed at this, and have written anet a very nice letter about their bias' and that this much anticipated update has in retrospect, been of little importance to my dervish.

I've heard from ppl that buffing skills from a "strong class" would be pointless, but this update was meant to make unused skills useful. Instead of anet buffing dervish skills like [arcane zeal] and [pious renewal] which are only useful in VERY rare occassions, they buff what doesn't need to be buffed, at even more appaulling, they only buff 3 elites. Considering dervs are on the lower list with only 15 elites, we really don't need this kind of overlooking.

cellardweller

cellardweller

Likes naked dance offs

Join Date: Aug 2005

The Older Gamers [TOG]

/pve perspective

[onslaught] - An improvement no doubt, but not awesome. More of a "I've-got-nothing-better-to-do-with-my-elite-slot" elite. I'd have added something else to it like "every second all adjacent foes are set on fire for 0..1..1 seconds).

[vow of strength] - Rest in Peace. Reducing incoming attack damage by 66%, causing attacks to miss 90% of the time, making enemy casters easily interrupted, reducing enemy healing by 20% and even causing degen are all more useful than having 1/8 of the team give up their elite slot to do +30ish % damage.

[Zealous Vow] - I've never needed more energy than a zealous scythe can provide. I guess if one could come up with a good one then this could be useful.

Axel Zinfandel

Axel Zinfandel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Northeastern Ohio

LaZy

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
[Zealous Vow] - I've never needed more energy than a zealous scythe can provide. I guess if one could come up with a good one then this could be useful. Zealous Vow is more attractive to Dervish Secondaries then dervishes themselves. Hell, it'd even by a great energy management skill for monks using spears.

obsidian ectoplasm

obsidian ectoplasm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
Zealous Vow is more attractive to Dervish Secondaries then dervishes themselves. Hell, it'd even by a great energy management skill for monks using spears. Yep i was just about to try that.


and shoyun i agree onslaught should be 33%

lejimmtohy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2008

I'm pretty disappointed that nothing exciting happened to Dervishes.

Anyone else think that Aura of the Holy Might should've been buffed at lower ranks in the +damage% part rather than the PBAoE damage?

Guess I'll stick with Wounding Strike being the only useful non-form Elite in PvP. I REALLY want to make Onslaught useful now though. It feels like it should have potential.

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
[vow of strength] - Rest in Peace. Reducing incoming attack damage by 66%, causing attacks to miss 90% of the time, making enemy casters easily interrupted, reducing enemy healing by 20% and even causing degen are all more useful than having 1/8 of the team give up their elite slot to do +30ish % damage. Not to mention that relying on your team members to not bring conditions will be near impossible.

Axel Zinfandel

Axel Zinfandel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Northeastern Ohio

LaZy

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by obsidian ectoplasm
Yep i was just about to try that.


and shoyun i agree onslaught should be 33% In fact, at a second glance, this completely overshadows Warrior's Endurance in most parts ('cept for its removable) for W/D users.

[Wind Cutter;AhOSqGtqKFuVYJUwc1cNgJD+WC]

shoyon456

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
In fact, at a second glance, this completely overshadows Warrior's Endurance in most parts ('cept for its removable) for W/D users.

[Wind Cutter;AhOSqGtqKFuVYJUwc1cNgJD+WC] Great... too bad this is the derv forum... for derv primary.

Sick combo though, now that I think about that w/ Chilling Vic (since its in wind for pvp now)

But I have actually sent that email, Im sure it will mean nothing, but I'm pretty peeved at the lack of dervish skill changes.

Darkside

Darkside

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Chantry of Secrets

[Angl]

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
Not to mention that relying on your team members to not bring conditions will be near impossible. I agree...finding a team that dishes out zero conditions would be near impossible...and on that note why would you want to be in a team with people that dish out zero conditions? This skill is garbage now as far as I can tell.

Onslaught...meh...I think I liked it better before.

Zealous Vow...still nothing special there either.

Overall the update was good but Dervish's don't really have anything to be excited about.

Amnel Ithtirsol

Amnel Ithtirsol

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

AU

League Of The Fallen

Mo/

ANet. Please give Dervs something to smile about as well.
Thanks.

-Lotus-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

First: dervishes did not need a buff at all. we have always been one of the most overpowered classes in the game. No one else auto-attacks for 100+ damage. stop complaining, other classes did need buffs.

[Onslaught] - WOO WOO! this owns face for AB, i suspect it will see its way into some GvG play as well. Just need a good way to inflict deep wound...

[Vow Of Strength] - totally useless. make it unconditional, and reduce the damage bonus if need be, but the current form kills team play.

[Zealous Vow] - this would be nice if we had expensive, low-recharge attack skills to power out... but we dont.


As far as PvE goes, im sticking with Lyssa and Wounding.

MisterT69

MisterT69

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Scions of Carver [SCAR]

E/

Zealous Vow is a pretty good skill on a 130 derv bar imo. Definitely beats out essence and balthazar's spirit considering u hit 3 foes=18-21dmg considering how high wind prayers is. Great for a farming build, not much better anywhere else.

SpiritThief

SpiritThief

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

R/Me

[Vow of Strength] might as well read, "Changes to [Wounding Strike]"

Hell if anything VoS is only good for sins now, to boost their spikes since it affects attack skills.

They need to change it back or at least make it so its conditions on "yourself". It was a perfectly fine elite, now made useless. We already lack elites as it is.

This kind of update, really makes it easy to call them complete morons. Conditions are like what 70-80% of the game.

I swear all they want us to use to WS.

I like [Onsaught] now tho. Have a reason to invest in wind prayers.

personally I hope they change VoS back, there was no reason to change it in the place. Now its pure crap in both pvp/pve. So everyone QQ VoS!!

Burst Cancel

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

Let's not kid ourselves: frontline dervs aren't going to take any of this shit over Wounding Strike, period.

Zealous is good for scythe warriors, that's about it. The other two skills are complete garbage. Onslaught at 33% might see play. VoS would have to be +200% damage or more @10 Earth to make up for losing Deep Wound.

Abedeus

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

You do realise VoS no longer disables attack skills? So it can be used with Chilling, Mystic/Eremite's and other. Unfortunately, VoS should have unconditional +%dmg to make it worth using, as WS is still the most overpowered Dervish skill.

Burst Cancel

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abedeus
You do realise VoS no longer disables attack skills? So it can be used with Chilling, Mystic/Eremite's and other. Oh, I'm aware of that - I just think it's irrelevant. You're never going to get the damage bonus to trigger unless you can keep conditions off the target - which is idiotic when you're giving up DW, blind, cripple, etc. +40% damage isn't even worth giving up DW for, nevermind anything else.

shoyon456

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
Oh, I'm aware of that - I just think it's irrelevant. You're never going to get the damage bonus to trigger unless you can keep conditions off the target - which is idiotic when you're giving up DW, blind, cripple, etc. +40% damage isn't even worth giving up DW for, nevermind anything else.

In fact today I tried dearly to make Vow of Strength work in AB. The fact is, the target either ran away (no cripple) or was crippled by someone else (or some other condition). It's true, the sacrifice of deep wound and having no way other than crystal wave/teinai's crystals of making sure a target does not have conditions makes this skill dead. And btw, those 2 skills don't even have a place in a dervish build, and very ineffective to be used to CURE an ememies' conditions.

Hopefully anet will fix it with next months build... wow a whole month of it being useless. And just to top it off w/ a quote from the dev comments on how they thought the change would be "good": Vow of Strength now allows powerful attacks as long as conditions are not present, making it interesting to build around.

"Interesting" eh? I wonder who, if anyone, actually looked at the game and tested this skill even the slightest bit before making the change. It's not about building yourself around "no conditions", its that you're stupid if you think other ppl won't be applying them. Sad part is, even if they do change it again, I will no longer be happy with the old version.


EDIT: To Abedeus: Try speccing in scythe mastery for the attks, earth prayers for VoS, and Wind for Chilling. And then there's some mysticism to consider... 4 att spread= fail...

And if you mean PvE... well we all know anything works in PvE.

Bowstring Badass

Bowstring Badass

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Character selection screen figuring what I want to play...

Purple Lingerie - :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnel Ithtirsol
ANet. Please give Dervs something to smile about as well.
Thanks. They didn't touch [wounding strike].

Sirius-NZ

Sirius-NZ

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bellevue, WA (I know ... but I moved out of NZ)

Xen of Onslaught

D/

You know, I think I'd rather take Whirling Charge than Onslaught. It's got downsides, but they're relatively minor, and you get to keep your elite slot for something actually important.

shoyon456

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass
They didn't touch [wounding strike]. Whoopdeedoo, one skill! Only reason anet should nerf this is from abuse by rangers, but thats another issue...

The fact is, everytime dervish skills form a niche, ppl QQ and have the skill nerfed. Yes, there were ones that were overpowered (original AoM) but then Izzy goes too far and nerfs the skill into obscurity (Avatar of Grenth).

With the least amount of elites to choose from w/ paras, alot more dervish skills should have niches and a use.

-Lotus-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoyon456
Whoopdeedoo, one skill! Only reason anet should nerf this is from abuse by rangers, but thats another issue...

The fact is, everytime dervish skills form a niche, ppl QQ and have the skill nerfed. Yes, there were ones that were overpowered (original AoM) but then Izzy goes too far and nerfs the skill into obscurity (Avatar of Grenth). hahahaha... please think before you post sometime...

The Thrasher

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2008

The only so called "buffed" elite I've actually used is Zealous Vow.

Sometimes you get bored using the dervs limited number of skills so you have to be creative. I guess you could put 12 points into wind prayers along with the corresponding hood and rune, then use energy-expensive skills like Grenth's Aura along with Poius Assault. Just fill your bar up with these type of skills to take full benefit of ZV.

It may not be great, but I have more fun using builds i made and work fine for me.

-Lotus-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Thrasher
The only so called "buffed" elite I've actually used is Zealous Vow. [Wounding Strike]???

123456789

Amnel Ithtirsol

Amnel Ithtirsol

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

AU

League Of The Fallen

Mo/

I see a lot more any/D out there than D/any.
Other classes seems to make better dervs than dervs, lol.

And, yes, [Wounding Strike] is nice. Really nice. That and [Avatar of Lyssa] is probably the only viable elites available currently.
Sadness...

daze

daze

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2008

In my own mind

The Dragon Exchange

E/

[onslaught]
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...17 seconds, you attack and move 25% faster.

[whirling charge]
Stance. For 3...13 seconds, you move and attack 25% faster than normal. This stance ends if you are not under the effects of any enchantments.

hmm well they are almost identical. They should stack right? since one is a stance and one is an enchant?

move and attack 50% faster?

-Lotus-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by daze
move and attack 50% faster? movement and attack speed only stack up to 33%. not worth it

Darkside

Darkside

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Chantry of Secrets

[Angl]

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnel Ithtirsol
I see a lot more any/D out there than D/any.
Other classes seems to make better dervs than dervs, lol.

And, yes, [Wounding Strike] is nice. Really nice. That and [Avatar of Lyssa] is probably the only viable elites available currently.
Sadness... [Wounding Strike], [Avatar of Lyssa], and [Avatar of Melandru] are probably the only Elites that touch my bar regularly. [Avatar of Dwayna] every once in a while for hex heavy areas.

Burst Cancel

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Lotus-
movement and attack speed only stack up to 33%. not worth it Not to mention that combo costs you 20e, neither skill lasts its recharge, and you have to stop every 20s to cast it.

Onslaught is a worthless elite. If it were 33% and a stance, or 33% with 20s duration @10, maybe it would see play.

-Lotus-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
Not to mention that combo costs you 20e, neither skill lasts its recharge, and you have to stop every 20s to cast it.

Onslaught is a worthless elite. If it were 33% and a stance, or 33% with 20s duration @10, maybe it would see play. It would be alright with a decent way to deal deep wound with a scythe, but currently the only viable options are wounding, wearying and maybe reaper's