OK, so I can understand a system where non-max weapons have requirements ranging from 0-9, so that they can improve as the player levels. But, why do max weapons have to come req. 9-13?
It would make sense if the higher req. weapons were in some way better, so that only req. 13 weapons were "max", but as it stands, it seems like a pointless stat.
Why do weapons have requirements?
Parson Brown
Ultima pyromancer
a perfect example would be shiros sword, Req 15 i believe... And thats no better than any other req 9 green
pumpkin pie
so people can wts xx swords for 500k+500ectos?
gremlin
I guess its just the way magic works.
So the general easy to obtain max damage weapons have the drawback that you need to put 13 points into the skill to get all the effects to work.
Someone at great expense crafted weapons that work as well with less points so you can place them elsewhere in your build.
These are more expensive and also Rare
So the general easy to obtain max damage weapons have the drawback that you need to put 13 points into the skill to get all the effects to work.
Someone at great expense crafted weapons that work as well with less points so you can place them elsewhere in your build.
These are more expensive and also Rare
Pleikki
Why do weapons have requirements? Ofc because they want to.
Sniper22
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Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer
a perfect example would be shiros sword, Req 15 i believe... And thats no better than any other req 9 green
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Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by gremlin
I guess its just the way magic works.
So the general easy to obtain max damage weapons have the drawback that you need to put 13 points into the skill to get all the effects to work. Someone at great expense crafted weapons that work as well with less points so you can place them elsewhere in your build. These are more expensive and also Rare |
If you're only putting 9 points in your weapon just to meet the req, you're only doing 77% of the listed damage, your 15-22 damage sword is dealing 11.5-17. You should always be placing the maximum number of points in your weapon.
On the OP, requirements make sense for foci and shields, since they're otherwise independent of their attribute, monks shouldn't be able to pick up a shield and use it at full strength for no cost. However, since weapons are dependent on their attribute, req only serves to confuse people like gremlin.
It was most likely added to have consistency between all item types, it would perhaps be even more confusing to not list a requirement for weapons at all.
From wiki if it helps.
Effect of Attributes on Weapon Damage Attribute Level
Percent dmg relative to 0 rank Percent dmg relative to 12 rank
0 100% 35.6%
1 109% 38.6%
2 119% 42.0%
3 130% 45.9%
4 141% 50.0%
5 154% 54.5%
6 168% 59.5%
7 183% 64.8%
8 200% 70.7%
9 218% 77.1%
10 238% 84.1%
11 259% 91.7%
12 283% 100%
13 293% 104%
14 303% 107%
15 314% 111%
16 325% 115%
AidinSwiftarrow
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Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer
a perfect example would be shiros sword, Req 15 i believe... And thats no better than any other req 9 green
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imnotyourmother
Great expense? I craft weapons all the time for myself in GW:EN. My fav is the charr slaying sword and shield. I use them at fort ranik for the special weekends. I kill charr and get carvings and drops and woot get stinking rich so that I can buy Necrid Horsemen and then put them in the garbage so that there are less of them so that the price goes up. I had destroyed 14 of them so far. WOOT.
I digress yes the req ?? It makes sense that the lower ones cost more gold because you only have 200 max attribute points that you can spend.
So if you are a ele and have a req 9 Wand and focus like the Dragon's Breath Wand and a fire focus you have a mitt full of attribute points to put in your SECONDARY PROFESSION. This is what makes you super strong.
But Wait. there are RUNES of Sup Fire that you can get. This will reduce the req attribut points to a puny 21 attribute points to get MAX Damage from your Fire wand Hrt 20% Hct 20% and Focus of Hct 20% and HCT 20% giving you a 40/40 kick but weapon/focus set and leave another 179 attribute points to spend on your secondary profession.
I digress yes the req ?? It makes sense that the lower ones cost more gold because you only have 200 max attribute points that you can spend.
So if you are a ele and have a req 9 Wand and focus like the Dragon's Breath Wand and a fire focus you have a mitt full of attribute points to put in your SECONDARY PROFESSION. This is what makes you super strong.
But Wait. there are RUNES of Sup Fire that you can get. This will reduce the req attribut points to a puny 21 attribute points to get MAX Damage from your Fire wand Hrt 20% Hct 20% and Focus of Hct 20% and HCT 20% giving you a 40/40 kick but weapon/focus set and leave another 179 attribute points to spend on your secondary profession.
Jenn
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Originally Posted by AidinSwiftarrow
No...req. 13...
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Flightmare
It seems like the game treats higher req weapons as higher end weapons becouse they often sell for more. So maybe only the game is thinking 'more is better'.
The Bard
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Originally Posted by Flightmare
It seems like the game treats higher req weapons as higher end weapons becouse they often sell for more. So maybe only the game is thinking 'more is better'.
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Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by The Bard
wut? weapons with higher req sell for more? wrong game i'm afraid
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imnotyourmother
Now that is interesting. I never thought about that. I have 3 Plat Blades all with different req's. I will get on tonight to see if the req ^ = more gold.
Kusandaa
Let's see something.
My warrior runs at 15 sword mastery. For 1 point, the drawback from the sup sword mastery rune isn't worth it IMO. I'd rather run with 15 instead of 16, but that's me.
However, AFAIK, at 16 sword mastery, with a req13 weapon, you'll do the same damage than with a req9 weapon.
Thus to me, req isn't worth too much. Since I run with at least 14 or 15 in sword mastery, why would I bother buying a req9 gold sword for 100k when I can have a purple req13 for 5k? In the end it does the same damage, thus the same job... (unless I'm willing to pay for a skin, but I'm talking damage here.)
But I take advantage of the system. I have a crystalline sword req13 (no, I don't, this is an example) and I find a req9. Which one do you think I'll sell?
My warrior runs at 15 sword mastery. For 1 point, the drawback from the sup sword mastery rune isn't worth it IMO. I'd rather run with 15 instead of 16, but that's me.
However, AFAIK, at 16 sword mastery, with a req13 weapon, you'll do the same damage than with a req9 weapon.
Thus to me, req isn't worth too much. Since I run with at least 14 or 15 in sword mastery, why would I bother buying a req9 gold sword for 100k when I can have a purple req13 for 5k? In the end it does the same damage, thus the same job... (unless I'm willing to pay for a skin, but I'm talking damage here.)
But I take advantage of the system. I have a crystalline sword req13 (no, I don't, this is an example) and I find a req9. Which one do you think I'll sell?
Dev121
To the OP's question:
Because they do.
This was something that could have been debated in the first year of the game on how it should be, now its just the norm. Some choose to pay more for lower req's others dont, it works well as a system.
Because they do.
This was something that could have been debated in the first year of the game on how it should be, now its just the norm. Some choose to pay more for lower req's others dont, it works well as a system.
sixofone
From the wiki:
"Linked attribute
Generally, every character can equip any weapon. However, most weapons have an attribute requirement for their damage. If the character's rank in the required attribute does not meet the requirement, the equipment will function in one of two ways:
Collector, crafter, quest reward, or unique weapons, will deal damage equal to an equivalent starter weapon (i.e. attempting to wield a Droknar's Sword at 8 Swordsmanship will result in it dealing 2-3 damage like a Starter Sword).
If the weapon is a dropped item, it will deal half damage. For example, a max 6-28 axe will have a base damage range of 3-14 when you do not meet the requirement.
Note that any mods on the weapon will still have their stated effect. Using a sword with a max fortitude mod will not give you any less health if the sword's requirement is not met.
Certain attributes (such as Hammer Mastery) increase the damage dealt using the appropriate weapon type as an inherent effect."
So, the req makes a difference, not just the attribute. If I read this correctly, Shiro's sword (req13) would only do the damage of a starter sword unless I meet the req.
"Linked attribute
Generally, every character can equip any weapon. However, most weapons have an attribute requirement for their damage. If the character's rank in the required attribute does not meet the requirement, the equipment will function in one of two ways:
Collector, crafter, quest reward, or unique weapons, will deal damage equal to an equivalent starter weapon (i.e. attempting to wield a Droknar's Sword at 8 Swordsmanship will result in it dealing 2-3 damage like a Starter Sword).
If the weapon is a dropped item, it will deal half damage. For example, a max 6-28 axe will have a base damage range of 3-14 when you do not meet the requirement.
Note that any mods on the weapon will still have their stated effect. Using a sword with a max fortitude mod will not give you any less health if the sword's requirement is not met.
Certain attributes (such as Hammer Mastery) increase the damage dealt using the appropriate weapon type as an inherent effect."
So, the req makes a difference, not just the attribute. If I read this correctly, Shiro's sword (req13) would only do the damage of a starter sword unless I meet the req.
Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by sixofone
So, the req makes a difference, not just the attribute. If I read this correctly, Shiro's sword (req13) would only do the damage of a starter sword unless I meet the req.
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sixofone
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Correct, but considering you'd have to be an idiot to not max out your weapon attribute, it doesn't matter much in the end.
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Selket
and you'd be using a sword for damage on something other than a warrior because..?
Hammer, yes. Axe, sometimes. Scythe, sure. Sword? Uh....
Hammer, yes. Axe, sometimes. Scythe, sure. Sword? Uh....
Flightmare
And ironically you will get only 25% of the +energy on focii if you don't reach the requirement, but shields will give you 50% of the armor rate if you don't reach the requirement.
Bryant Again
Hard to tell. I *would* say that the weapons have requirements so you can't use one at the get-go, but if that were true then they would've done the same for armors.
IlikeGW
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Originally Posted by Parson Brown
But, why do max weapons have to come req. 9-13?
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sixofone
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Originally Posted by IlikeGW
To add more farming to the game.
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But, since experience doesn't mean anything, you have to have something to achieve/acquire!
Enar.
if there would be no requirements then you would see a lot Monk warriors with max damage weapons and with healing attributes. Damage + healing ??? profit.
Bryant Again
Damage lies less in the actual output of the weapon and more in the skills.
Rhamia Darigaz
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Originally Posted by Enar.
if there would be no requirements then you would see a lot Monk warriors with max damage weapons and with healing attributes. Damage + healing ??? profit.
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MithranArkanere
For the same reason PvE characters start at level 1.
Sigma Onkoron
Another gold sink. It helps the economy alot. When new weapons come out. There is a huge gold sink. Along with players paying +500e for something you can get the r13 for half the price at the same skin. Its so players can get the "cool things" but not pay as much.
Savio
Gold sinks remove gold from the economy. Players giving other players gold is not a gold sink.
TheodenKing
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Originally Posted by Kusandaa
However, AFAIK, at 16 sword mastery, with a req13 weapon, you'll do the same damage than with a req9 weapon. Thus to me, req isn't worth too much.
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
...once you meet that requirement, a second damage calculation is done. The higher your attribute, the more damage you'll do. You need 12 points in your weapon's attribute to do the listed damage. Further points above 12 still increase your damage, though less drastically. At 16 weapon mastery, you'll deal 115% of the listed damage.
If you're only putting 9 points in your weapon just to meet the req, you're only doing 77% of the listed damage, your 15-22 damage sword is dealing 11.5-17. You should always be placing the maximum number of points in your weapon. |
tyrant rex
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Originally Posted by TheodenKing
That is incorrect. The higher above the req of the weapon you are, the higher the % of damage you will do. Lower req is better. Read the following again:
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Yawgmoth
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Originally Posted by OP
But, why do max weapons have to come req. 9-13?
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Less stupid theories = more boring game, right?
BlueNovember
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Originally Posted by TheodenKing
That is incorrect. The higher above the req of the weapon you are, the higher the % of damage you will do. Lower req is better. Read the following again:
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There should be a login-screen announcement to dispel this myth.
There's no difference between an r9 and an r13 weapon once you're at 13 or above mastery, which you pretty much always should be!
Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by TheodenKing
That is incorrect. The higher above the req of the weapon you are, the higher the % of damage you will do. Lower req is better. Read the following again:
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That's not what I said at all.
Here's a neat flowchart.
1) Does character meet weapon requirement? If yes, weapon damage = listed damage, if no, weapon damage = minimum.
2) What is character's damage modifier from their attribute? Use this chart:
Effect of Attributes on Weapon Damage Attribute Level
Percent dmg relative to 0 rank Percent dmg relative to 12 rank
0 100% 35.6%
1 109% 38.6%
2 119% 42.0%
3 130% 45.9%
4 141% 50.0%
5 154% 54.5%
6 168% 59.5%
7 183% 64.8%
8 200% 70.7%
9 218% 77.1%
10 238% 84.1%
11 259% 91.7%
12 283% 100%
13 293% 104%
14 303% 107%
15 314% 111%
16 325% 115%
3) Final damage = Weapon damage from 1 * multiplier from 2.
This doesn't account for crits, customization, weapon damage mods, or skill use because I don't feel like typing.
Crom The Pale
The requirements are meant to be another means of limiting builds.
The major flaw with that is the weakness of skills that warriors can use that are not tied to thier weapons.
Picture a war running 7 swords so he can dump points into fire magic, the result is a war that does very weak damage with sword and very weak damage with fire magic....
If you delt maximum damge simply by meeting the requirement of the weapon then you could create some insane builds with low require max weapons.
Since damage is tied to Attribute then the weapon requirements really do make no sense what so ever.
NOTE*
I think a better way to explain weapon requirements and damage is this.
Requirements effect the weapon only.
Attribute effect the damage only.
example. Sword with Req 9 max damage 15-22. If you do not meet that requirement the sword stats drop to 6-11. Now your attribute will determine what damage you can deal with this weapon so at 8 swordsmanship your dealing with a 6-11 weapon multiplied by 0.71 (attribute damage percentage for 8 mastery)
The major flaw with that is the weakness of skills that warriors can use that are not tied to thier weapons.
Picture a war running 7 swords so he can dump points into fire magic, the result is a war that does very weak damage with sword and very weak damage with fire magic....
If you delt maximum damge simply by meeting the requirement of the weapon then you could create some insane builds with low require max weapons.
Since damage is tied to Attribute then the weapon requirements really do make no sense what so ever.
NOTE*
I think a better way to explain weapon requirements and damage is this.
Requirements effect the weapon only.
Attribute effect the damage only.
example. Sword with Req 9 max damage 15-22. If you do not meet that requirement the sword stats drop to 6-11. Now your attribute will determine what damage you can deal with this weapon so at 8 swordsmanship your dealing with a 6-11 weapon multiplied by 0.71 (attribute damage percentage for 8 mastery)
Martin Alvito
This one's pretty simple:
Minimum attribute requirements exist to prevent characters from gaining the full benefit from items not linked to their profession. Monks that don't have a decent Swordsmanship skill shouldn't be able to deal damage to players or endgame monsters with swords. Nor should they be able to derive the full benefit from shields without investment in Tactics or a Paragon line.
Varying attribute requirements exist as a means of creating scarcity (and thus value) whike limiting the number of items in existence whose functionality duplicates or exceeds that of PvP character content. If every weapon dropped req 9, they would have little value. Without scarcity, there is little reason to continue to play PvE after finishing a campaign, as you would acquire everything you want or need swiftly. That would be a problem for ANet from a customer retention standpoint.
At the same time, ANet has always wanted PvP characters to not be disadvantaged relative to PvE characters. At times they have failed at this (hat swap, HoD sword/helm, unconditional damage mods), but generally PvP characters stand at little to no inherent disadvantage.
Upshot: cool stuff is hard to get but confers little inherent advantage - exactly what ANet wants.
Minimum attribute requirements exist to prevent characters from gaining the full benefit from items not linked to their profession. Monks that don't have a decent Swordsmanship skill shouldn't be able to deal damage to players or endgame monsters with swords. Nor should they be able to derive the full benefit from shields without investment in Tactics or a Paragon line.
Varying attribute requirements exist as a means of creating scarcity (and thus value) whike limiting the number of items in existence whose functionality duplicates or exceeds that of PvP character content. If every weapon dropped req 9, they would have little value. Without scarcity, there is little reason to continue to play PvE after finishing a campaign, as you would acquire everything you want or need swiftly. That would be a problem for ANet from a customer retention standpoint.
At the same time, ANet has always wanted PvP characters to not be disadvantaged relative to PvE characters. At times they have failed at this (hat swap, HoD sword/helm, unconditional damage mods), but generally PvP characters stand at little to no inherent disadvantage.
Upshot: cool stuff is hard to get but confers little inherent advantage - exactly what ANet wants.
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by TheodenKing
That is incorrect. The higher above the req of the weapon you are, the higher the % of damage you will do. Lower req is better.
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If you don't believe us, go grab two max swords with identical stats and different reqs (white modless merc fodder will work) and go to the Isle of the Nameless. Put your swordsmanship at 16 (or any other att that meets the req for both weapons) and use wild blow on a dummy. The damage will be exactly the same for both weps.
IllusiveMind
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
You fail reading comprehension.
If you don't believe us, go grab two max swords with identical stats and different reqs (white modless merc fodder will work) and go to the Isle of the Nameless. Put your swordsmanship at 16 (or any other att that meets the req for both weapons) and use wild blow on a dummy. The damage will be exactly the same for both weps. |
BenjZee
i always thought people preffered a req9 than req13 so they don't have to use extra runes or attribute points. therefore they can put the attributes into other things.