Why are Swords More Prefered than Axes When not Using an Elite Weapon Attack?
Sir Tidus
It is well known that swords are often used in builds that don't use a weapon attack as the elite skill. Quoting GWW: "Swords have always been a unique weapon in Guild Wars because they can do lethal damage without an elite skill." Can anyone explain to me why this is so? Because with 11 weapon mastery or higher, axes have higher normal attack dps than swords, so it seems to me that you need to have a good attack skill in order for swords to best axes, but the popular belief says that it's the other way around. Why? Thanks in advance.
AKB48
Skill-wise sword is better since unlike axe skills which offers limited damage at high adr. cost, sword skills are cheap and can be used at different situations.
Plus sword skins usually>axe skins
Plus sword skins usually>axe skins
HawkofStorms
Because the skill [Final Thrust] a non elite skill, gives swords the killing power to work well without using sword elite, unlike axes, which really needs something like the executioners strike/eviscerate combo.
Although, I do prefer axes personally.
Also, swords are popular because http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...sAreJustBetter
Although, I do prefer axes personally.
Also, swords are popular because http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...sAreJustBetter
Tatile
I thought it may have something to do with Sowrds having a greater damage consistency? 15-22 vs 6-28?
Keekles
Primarily it's for [final thrust], since that's a non-elite with the punch of an elite. Swords do have more consistent damage, but their dw needs to be paired up. [sever artery][gash] or [crippling slash][gash]
masterjer1
It all comes down to personnal taste really. Max damage axes deal more damage with more ability to hit with aoe. Granted that max damage axes also have lower minimal damage than swords do. I for one prefer axes, and highly disagree that sword skins are better than axes. Skill wise, swords are not better. Again it comes down to personnal taste here. I'm not knocking swords. There are a few skins that I like and ALOT that I don't like.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Keekles
Primarily it's for [final thrust], since that's a non-elite with the punch of an elite. Swords do have more consistent damage, but their dw needs to be paired up. [sever artery][gash] or [crippling slash][gash]
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Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Tatile
I thought it may have something to do with Sowrds having a greater damage consistency? 15-22 vs 6-28?
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ShadowsRequiem
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
What's the point of damage consistency? Isn't average damage all that matters?
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Darcy
If you started out in Prophecies, it takes a while before you have good axe skills. So most players start out with a sword and try out the axe later when the elites become available (don't forget that elites in Prophecies are in the second half of the game). Not to mention they all want a Fiery Dragon Sword like Prince Rurik.
The axe has more multiple-hit skills available so can do more overall mob damage. [Triple Chop] with [Cyclone Axe] or [Whirlwind Attack] combined with [Splinter Weapon] puts damage numbers up very quickly.
My warrior almost exclusively uses an axe now, but she collected some nice swords along the way, that my heroes are enjoying. Come to think of it, my first green drop was the Quivering Blade. I just gave that away this week.
The axe has more multiple-hit skills available so can do more overall mob damage. [Triple Chop] with [Cyclone Axe] or [Whirlwind Attack] combined with [Splinter Weapon] puts damage numbers up very quickly.
My warrior almost exclusively uses an axe now, but she collected some nice swords along the way, that my heroes are enjoying. Come to think of it, my first green drop was the Quivering Blade. I just gave that away this week.
Savio
Average damage doesn't matter when you're comparing swords and axes because they're practically the same.
Tatile
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
What's the point of damage consistency? Isn't average damage all that matters?
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farmerfez
axes>sword because of unconditional deep wound
Massive Impulsa
Well i suppose since what for me is
Sword = Pressure / Constant Damage
Axe = Low pressure / High Damage capability
So say when i use an elite such as "Coward" its possible to use the Steelfang -> Sever Artery -> Gash , which is quite nice damage.
For axe its mostly Coward - > Dismember -> Executioner -> Dchop(optional) m which is an easy gotten DW and DMG but is more a pure dmg :/
So id say if however your running a non-axe-elite and wanna run axe u miss the point since Evis is tha bast skill evah for axe / pure hihg dmg and dw :/
Sword = Pressure / Constant Damage
Axe = Low pressure / High Damage capability
So say when i use an elite such as "Coward" its possible to use the Steelfang -> Sever Artery -> Gash , which is quite nice damage.
For axe its mostly Coward - > Dismember -> Executioner -> Dchop(optional) m which is an easy gotten DW and DMG but is more a pure dmg :/
So id say if however your running a non-axe-elite and wanna run axe u miss the point since Evis is tha bast skill evah for axe / pure hihg dmg and dw :/
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
Its the same thing as the arguement with vamp vs sundering. It deals with having a more consistant dmg which leads to more pressure for the other monks to heal.
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Dante the Warlord
Swords are picked because
1. More effort is put into sword skins
-All the New weapon skin contests have at least a few AWESOME looking sword skins
-Generic "knightly" or "paladin" weapon
-ANET plain loves swords as do almost every single MMORPG
2. Back when Prophecies started, the war skills were all sword skills
-you may not agree with me, but this is why is started playing with a sword, since i was lazy to buy new skills and learn new tactics
3.Consistant and Predictable Damage
-15-22 is much better then 8-28 in terms of consistancy, but axes are better for spiking
-Great for PvP where you can afford to do a single digit damage to powerful enemies
4. Good adrenaline skills
-Dragon Slash
-Quivering Blade
-Final Blow
-etc.
1. More effort is put into sword skins
-All the New weapon skin contests have at least a few AWESOME looking sword skins
-Generic "knightly" or "paladin" weapon
-ANET plain loves swords as do almost every single MMORPG
2. Back when Prophecies started, the war skills were all sword skills
-you may not agree with me, but this is why is started playing with a sword, since i was lazy to buy new skills and learn new tactics
3.Consistant and Predictable Damage
-15-22 is much better then 8-28 in terms of consistancy, but axes are better for spiking
-Great for PvP where you can afford to do a single digit damage to powerful enemies
4. Good adrenaline skills
-Dragon Slash
-Quivering Blade
-Final Blow
-etc.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord
Swords are picked because
1. More effort is put into sword skins -All the New weapon skin contests have at least a few AWESOME looking sword skins -Generic "knightly" or "paladin" weapon -ANET plain loves swords as do almost every single MMORPG |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord
3.Consistant and Predictable Damage -15-22 is much better then 8-28 in terms of consistancy, but axes are better for spiking -Great for PvP where you can afford to do a single digit damage to powerful enemies |
zling
it started back in the days of Prophecies when swords didnt have any good elites. the only elite available was and still is [hundred blades] and we all know how useful that skill is... :\
so Sword Warriors used all sorts of elites, [bull's charge] was very common, other used elites were [battle rage] [charge] and sometimes [victory is mine!] mainly in gimmicks though
when factions came out Sword Warriors finally had a good elite in the Sword line: the almighty [dragon slash]
when nightfall came out Sword Warriors had a good alternative as well, the almighty [crippling slash]
so now Sword Warriors have become like other Warriors who use an elite of their weapon line.
however those other elites, and a few additions arent completely gonne so they're still being used mainly by Sword Warriors.
so Sword Warriors used all sorts of elites, [bull's charge] was very common, other used elites were [battle rage] [charge] and sometimes [victory is mine!] mainly in gimmicks though
when factions came out Sword Warriors finally had a good elite in the Sword line: the almighty [dragon slash]
when nightfall came out Sword Warriors had a good alternative as well, the almighty [crippling slash]
so now Sword Warriors have become like other Warriors who use an elite of their weapon line.
however those other elites, and a few additions arent completely gonne so they're still being used mainly by Sword Warriors.
Dante the Warlord
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
I feel the same way lol.
Again, with all due respect, how does consistency help? |
Bobby2
Axe. [Dismember].
Bowstring Badass
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Originally Posted by Tatile
I thought it may have something to do with Sowrds having a greater damage consistency? 15-22 vs 6-28?
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I want to see [charging strike] get buffed. That skill would be nasty with a sword.
afmart
some skills warrior skills unlinked to swordsmanship also require you to have a sword like [Riposte] and [deadly riposte]
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Again, with all due respect, how does consistency help? |
Say you are PvPing and are attacking an enemy monk. Say you get that monk down to 10 health left, and are about to swing you axe... and ahh "rolled" a 6. The monk lives. WoH has been cast.
Swords on one hand, will always get that kill. Axes on the other hand, due to luck on wheter or not you get a critical hit, may or may not.
Mr Pink57
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Here is how consistancy of damage helps. (note, math is simplified a LOT, usually the monk has like 30 health, and its with a +damage skill).
Say you are PvPing and are attacking an enemy monk. Say you get that monk down to 10 health left, and are about to swing you axe... and ahh "rolled" a 6. The monk lives. WoH has been cast. Swords on one hand, will always get that kill. Axes on the other hand, due to luck on wheter or not you get a critical hit, may or may not. |
pink
snaek
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Originally Posted by Mr Pink57
And this is the reason why axe mastery is run so high. High chance of crits to get into that 28 range.
pink |
(sword, axe, hammer, daggers, scythe)
Sir Tom Hunter
I agree with how Dante the Warlord put it. People choose swords because they like the look, and swords have always been associated with warriors, u think warrior u think sword. I personally like the Paladin look. I also like consistency when fighting, I hate to rely on luck because the only luck I have is the bad kind! Lastly the reason why so many people use swords is because in proph u start with sword skills, so thats what people use, they don't really start changing weapon styles until much later in the game, and then ull notice theres a pretty good amount of Axe wielders out there.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Here is how consistancy of damage helps. (note, math is simplified a LOT, usually the monk has like 30 health, and its with a +damage skill).
Say you are PvPing and are attacking an enemy monk. Say you get that monk down to 10 health left, and are about to swing you axe... and ahh "rolled" a 6. The monk lives. WoH has been cast. Swords on one hand, will always get that kill. Axes on the other hand, due to luck on wheter or not you get a critical hit, may or may not. |
Avarre
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Here is how consistancy of damage helps. (note, math is simplified a LOT, usually the monk has like 30 health, and its with a +damage skill).
Say you are PvPing and are attacking an enemy monk. Say you get that monk down to 10 health left, and are about to swing you axe... and ahh "rolled" a 6. The monk lives. WoH has been cast. Swords on one hand, will always get that kill. Axes on the other hand, due to luck on wheter or not you get a critical hit, may or may not. |
Sword elites used to suck, but more importantly, spike/pressure skills are all available as non-elites. Similarly as how Dom mesmers can run different elites easily, sword warriors don't rely on their elite in the way Axe (evisc) or Hammer (lead KD attack) usually do.
_Nihilist_
Simple Math to answer Sword/Axe average DPS comparison:
Range you want to Average, add the different values, divide by the number of values, you get the mean (average) of the group
Sword: 15-22 dmg : 8 values in spread : 148 total, divided by 8 = 18.5 dmg/hit
Sword @ Master of Damage : 3,619 damage over 179 seconds = 20 DPS
Axe: 6-28 dmg : 23 values in spread : 391 total, divided by 23 = 17 dmg/hit
Axe @ Master of Damage : 3,844 damage over 180 seconds= 21 DPS
The Sword and Axe used to test on the Master of Damage were identical as far as weapon mods and bonus damage. No attack skills or ias buffs were used during testing, only normal attacks at the normal attack speed. At the time of testing, the appropriate attribute Weapon Mastery was set to 14 with a constant Strength of 13.
@ AKB48:
Forgot to finish out my post, was doing some things in game at the same time!
Point is, average damage for a Sword and Axe are almost identical. Only when you add the skills in do the damage spreads start to change. Still, with such a spread, Axes do have more of a chance to roll in their low range, which sucks.
While I was performing the above tests, my Axe hit for 6 damage a few times... But when crits landed dealing 51 damage, it was nice, especially since the Sword crits hit for 40...
Axe vs. Sword is a matter of taste. I use both, depending on where I'm going. Here lately it's been DSlash+SY, but when I get bored, I swap over to a Cleave/Evis or an Eshaker build...
Range you want to Average, add the different values, divide by the number of values, you get the mean (average) of the group
Sword: 15-22 dmg : 8 values in spread : 148 total, divided by 8 = 18.5 dmg/hit
Sword @ Master of Damage : 3,619 damage over 179 seconds = 20 DPS
Axe: 6-28 dmg : 23 values in spread : 391 total, divided by 23 = 17 dmg/hit
Axe @ Master of Damage : 3,844 damage over 180 seconds= 21 DPS
The Sword and Axe used to test on the Master of Damage were identical as far as weapon mods and bonus damage. No attack skills or ias buffs were used during testing, only normal attacks at the normal attack speed. At the time of testing, the appropriate attribute Weapon Mastery was set to 14 with a constant Strength of 13.
@ AKB48:
Forgot to finish out my post, was doing some things in game at the same time!
Point is, average damage for a Sword and Axe are almost identical. Only when you add the skills in do the damage spreads start to change. Still, with such a spread, Axes do have more of a chance to roll in their low range, which sucks.
While I was performing the above tests, my Axe hit for 6 damage a few times... But when crits landed dealing 51 damage, it was nice, especially since the Sword crits hit for 40...
Axe vs. Sword is a matter of taste. I use both, depending on where I'm going. Here lately it's been DSlash+SY, but when I get bored, I swap over to a Cleave/Evis or an Eshaker build...
AKB48
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Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong
Simple Math to answer Sword/Axe average DPS comparison:
Range you want to Average, add the different values, divide by the number of values, you get the mean (average) of the group Sword: 15-22 dmg : 8 values in spread : 148 total, divided by 8 = 18.5 dmg/hit Sword @ Master of Damage : 3,619 damage over 179 seconds = 20 DPS Axe: 6-28 dmg : 23 values in spread : 391 total, divided by 23 = 17 dmg/hit Axe @ Master of Damage : 3,844 damage over 180 seconds= 21 DPS The Sword and Axe used to test on the Master of Damage were identical as far as weapon mods and bonus damage. No attack skills or ias buffs were used during testing, only normal attacks at the normal attack speed. At the time of testing, the appropriate attribute Weapon Mastery was set to 14 with a constant Strength of 13. |
moriz
sword does not have a powerful all-purpose elite like axe does (eviscerate), plus they have good none-elite damage attacks (final thrust, sun&moon slash). this allow them to run these non-attack elites without hurting their damage output.
prince percilitor
[Eviscerate][Executioner's Strike] = 300ish damage with dw= spike
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Avarre
On the other hand, the axe might have rolled higher numbers earlier and killed the monk outright. Especially because axes have better spike skills.
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Striken7
Using an Axe without an Axe Mastery elite will hurt your DPS, because Axe Mastery elites (especially Eviscerate) are meant to deal a lot of damage.
Using a Sword without a Sword Mastery elite won't really effect your DPS (except for D-Slash, which can actually pump out damage) because Sword elites, in general, suck for damage.
Therefore, the simple conclusion is that if you want to run a build without a weapon mastery elite, you will use a Sword.
Using a Sword without a Sword Mastery elite won't really effect your DPS (except for D-Slash, which can actually pump out damage) because Sword elites, in general, suck for damage.
Therefore, the simple conclusion is that if you want to run a build without a weapon mastery elite, you will use a Sword.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Striken7
Using an Axe without an Axe Mastery elite will hurt your DPS, because Axe Mastery elites (especially Eviscerate) are meant to deal a lot of damage.
Using a Sword without a Sword Mastery elite won't really effect your DPS (except for D-Slash, which can actually pump out damage) because Sword elites, in general, suck for damage. Therefore, the simple conclusion is that if you want to run a build without a weapon mastery elite, you will use a Sword. |
Rhamia Darigaz
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Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong
Sword: 15-22 dmg : 8 values in spread : 148 total, divided by 8 = 18.5 dmg/hit
Sword @ Master of Damage : 3,619 damage over 179 seconds = 20 DPS Axe: 6-28 dmg : 23 values in spread : 391 total, divided by 23 = 17 dmg/hit Axe @ Master of Damage : 3,844 damage over 180 seconds= 21 DPS |
protip: critical hits
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz
didn't it seem strange to you that your sword had more dmg per hit but less dps? maybe you calculated one of them incorrectly
protip: critical hits |
Nainoa
I use swords in PvE HM because your crit chance against those level 28 mobs and level 30 bosses is much less compared to hitting a level 20. With the reduced crit chance of axes the sword does more DPS especially with a Dragon Slash build. For PvP, I think it's best to stick with hammer/axe.
Joe Fierce
pve = axe, why? not everything bleeds, unconditional deep wound
pvp= depends really on what build you and your team are running, and what type of stuff you'd like to throw out there, that's all it really comes down to.
pvp= depends really on what build you and your team are running, and what type of stuff you'd like to throw out there, that's all it really comes down to.
AnbuAdam
Its basically personal preference, but since the nerf on FGJ in PvP, Swords are in PvE, Axes in PvP. Although Axes and hammers are still good in PvE, just much more common in PvP