( GW2 ) Revised Rank system for HA

Note that the elitists will flame the hell out of me for this. I don't mind.

The current rank system in Guild Wars is somewhat flawed in that it encourages people to discriminate against ranks a bit too much then they should be...which has led to the failure that HA is now. For people like me who have a rank , its not TOO bad, but I have so many friends that are r0 and simply cannot get a group or even get into a guild that does HA because of it. HA is dead to pickup groups and will eventually die because of it. Sure its possible for them to gain rank 3 and at least be pickup able if they really try as there are ways, but it would be dishonest to not admit that it detours more people then it should.

To be honest the rank discrimination wasn't that bad before long. I had quit HA a while due to IRL shit but came back 5 days ago just to have some lulz...so there I was sitting in a r6+ team and a friend of mine wanted to play. She is r5... maybe 10 points away from 6, and the majority of the people in my party started to flame me for even suggesting we let in an r5 ? WTF ? 10 months ago something as little as that would have been no problem.
Its sad to see how the playerbase of HA has degenerated into such a 4chan level of quality.


So the idea is for GW2 is this: ( GW1 is far too gone off the deep end to save it imo. Plus this system likely would not work as well for GW1's system ):

Split hero into 2 titles:

-The first title would be current rank. It would work somewhat like this:


Loses 0 fame for each loss
rank 1 - 10 fame
rank 2 - 20
Loses 1 fame for each loss
rank 3 - 50
rank 4 - 70
Loses 2 fame for each loss
rank 5 - 120
rank 6 - 160
Loses 3 fame for each loss
rank 7 - 200
rank 8 - 280
Loses 4 fame for each loss
rank 9 - 380
rank 10 - 480
Loses 5 fame for each loss
rank 11 - 600
rank 12 - 720
Loses 6 fame for each loss
rank 13 - 850
rank 14 - 950
Loses 10 fame for each loss
rank 15 - 1200

( numbers would likely have to be extensively tested and tweaked. I am by no means suggesting they be exactly this, just something similar. )

Fame gaining: system for gaining fame would remain as is with one large difference, in that both teams overall combined rank would be calculated as a percentage and players with lower rank would gain/lose rank based on that percentage. This means a team that stacks themselves with nothing but r10's that loses to a group of r5's would actually lose more like 6 fame each, and the r5's would gain 50% more. This would encourage groups to allow a lower ranked player in to offset their rank penalty.

The idea is to encourage the vets into letting new people at the very least play the friggin game.

The second title I am not sure of as its possible players that hate that system would just discriminate on this one:

Basically the second title is just a "Highest rank achieved" title. You gain a level in it every time you obtain a rank you have never been at before. Obviously, the max is 15. This title would be abolished if it got out of hand.


Flame on.

Bad Idea!!!!!!!!

Wait a minute, are you saying we'll have HA in GW2?

I like the system because it's interesting and a higher rank will show less of a status of time and more of skill, much like a K: D ratio.

But I'm not in favor of it to help "descrimination", since that can't ever really be helped.

Or at the very least something like it. The core of the suggestion really comes down to being more of a ratio, and including a system that encourages people to be more friendly to those just starting out.

Heck, I just tried pretending to be a rank zero on a different character with a pve title on...and despite the fact that I acted extremely polite and claimed to be a player who was just trying to learn pretty much everyone told me to GTFO and die. Anyone who doesn't believe me is free to turn their title off and have a go at it yourself...


Although you are right Bryant, discrimination will always happen regardless of how the ranks are set up. The idea is to make it quicker and easier to break into PVP -

In the current system, if you want to get into doing HA you need to find a guild that will first accept you into it that has good players that are willing to let a lower ranked player join....then do hall runs using either FOTM's or a balnced guild-specific build in which you will likely be given an easy role to start out. This is a lot of grind and takes some time, and finding a guild willing to take you in is more often then not very low ranked themselves and results in many just turning back to GvG or pve or whatever.

In this one there is actually a fame bonus incentive to encourage the vets into letting someone lower ranked then them in their group as it will lower the fame they lose and increase the fame they gain. This kind of system exists in other games and has worked to at least lessen discrimination to some level were newbies don't get totally left out just for being what they are.

You have no idea if there will be a HA or even rank in GW2, this thread is pointless. And the idea is also bad.
Hi you know this is the internet right?

Ha has been dead for a long time.... for you to just realize this is sad.

So... a good guild has a 40 consecutive win streak..everyones r15. and thats it. no higher. they maxed

Good idea, 95% of the people want a r6 or higher.
They tell us to GTFO and die, and come back when we are r6 or even higher, How can a r1 possibly get higher if none wants them?

For a r1 it takes about 2 hours (if it isn't even more) to find a decent party hopefully without ragequitters.

For a r6, It would be done in 10-20 minutes to set up a complete party.

My opinion: If you want to play in a decent party, and you are newly to GW, or just have low fame because you didn't pvp much, than gl with finding a party, you just got fked.
Wich means when Guild Wars came out, you should have going to HA because there wasn't a rank discrimination during that time.

There is still one option left: Fame farm service.
Though due to fame farm services, some people only want R9's

I do havea personal grudge against the rank wars in this game but, I can also understand why people would want to get an 'experienced' group in a time consuming pvp. It's something I wish is easier to get into for newbies (New to HA not new to PvP in general) but I don't think that can be accomplished.


How about a rank (That doesn't count for a title per say, but IS a symbol of knowledge) that is given from playing a HA clone with NPCS so you are used to the gameplay that is different from AB, RA, Gvg, and TA. Also you would get Minimal faction and it would have a daily cap and no other rewards. Then once you get a certain rank in that (whatever players deem worthy) then It would be easier to get into HA.

sigh...

12 characters.

I'm am some one that has tried countless times to break into HA (and PvP for that matter) and have failed. I think I've been in HA 3 times and my group (a PUG) died in the UW. I would love a new system that would make it easier to get into HA.

Since I'm not too experienced at HA I don't know too much about it but here's what I suggest:

Why not make the title undisplayalble. This way people can still get their max title but no one knows how high a rank you really are. Like you said, you pretended to be r0 and got flamed. With this method people can say whatever rank they want to say but it's not gonna matter since no one will know for sure.

An example of this working:

I get in HA, kick ass, some one adds me to their friends list in case they want to group with a skilled player, and they never no that I don't have a rank.

Please find flaws and rework my ideas

HA has been long dead, from the moment someone became higher than r0(the base) the discrimination has happened. It is rather sad this happens but thats how it is. If ha is gonna be in GW 2 then it MUST be tweaked, if it is to have any better chance than the current system, and this looks better than most other suggestions people has given.

First off, and this is not a ''please stop whining about rank discrim'' reply, but a title is there to show everyone how experienced you are in that field (except for PvE titles, which are just a meter of how much of your life was wasted trying to be able to deal +10 damage to a monster)

If there wasn't anyway of displaying your experience besides knowing someone or being someone, then there would be even less people in tombs. Rank is there to either show how many times you were in a specific map, ran a heroway under an alias(IWAY was actually fun the play against), or leeched off of better players. Or to occasionally flash someone your Bambi, Balto, Pussy, Fawkes, or Professor Dog.

OP: Your idea, however, is interesting. In the currect system, if you lose horribly over and over again, the only way of showing people you fail is to have it publically announced by either the shitters who beat you or by your rep-obsessed leader. With your system, it shows a current title of skill, letting everyone know how good you are at a dead game(harharhar) or how much you fail.

Either way, there will always be discrimination from people who most likely suck and only want good people with them to make them look good.

I like my idea >_> lol

Ok I understand what you mean. If I had a higher rank of coarse I would want to display it. Sorry I didn't think of that , but I have another idea.

Why don't they make a different district type set up where you have to be a certain rank to compete in a cetain district. This way you can still earn fame and ease your way into it by practicing HA without getting thrown full force into it. Of coarse this would make the title less of a big deal

Plus, I still like your initial idea Ketsu
Sorry if it seems like I'm ignoring it or shooting it down

Yeah, that's not a bad idea. There are plenty of ways to improve the current system.

I still think it should be based on the mathematical ELO system (the one that is modified to rank GvG and HB players).

True that. Guild ranks can be killed, HA titles cannot.

It seems to me that this idea wouldn't work. As it is now, being of low rank is a sign of inexperience. Elitist only assume that lower ranked people are bad. With the proposed system, the elitists won't know whether someone having a low rank is because they is new or that they actually do suck, but they will still assume the latter.

Have two titles: one based on wins in HA (like the current rank), one based on the ELO system.

Oh, and no matter how you fix rank, people still won't play with the r0's.

This. They could also be rolled into just one 'status line' which essentially indicates the number of matches played (like, arguably, the current rank) and the win/loss ratio (in whatever format, like pure ratio or actual ELO rank). More information is always a good thing. If hard numbers are too exact, then how about just visualizing it? Have the 'experience' shown with a progression of different icons like the current /rank emote, and make the win/loss ratio affect its color: between faint dull coppery brown = crap ratio, and bright white with a tinge of gold = top ratio. Would make the choice more interesting - do you take a promising new bambi or a tired old crapway tiger?

The problem with the current one-dimensional system is that it encourages 'fame or bust' farming and thus nurtures gimmicks.

It is indeed way too late for the original GW, but since it's a general PvP concern let's hope that there are lessons learned for GW2.

You...do realize that the whole "Lawl internetz Anonymoose is LEEgion" thing started out as a sarcastic joke...

...right ?

I believe that a majority of the people replying to this thread need either: therapy, education, or maturity.

On topic: your idea is awesome. Do you know why? Because a negative result always means a more risky type of game play. Unfortunately, discrimination would also happen as they wouldn't want low level ranks to cause them to make a loss. However, being penalized for losing is great. It makes PvP risk taking. For example:

Random/Team Arenas. You can go in ranked or unranked. Unranked will only earn you half the faction while ranked will earn the maximum faction you should earn with the chance of gladiator points. Losing will cause you to have gladiator points removed thus challenging you and others to make more of an effort.

For laughs, anyone with a hero rank should have -fame at the moment. For example, you have 3,000 fame, you have -3,000 fame and those without fame get a phoenix. This would be for a day or so to make people in Heroes' Ascent freak out.

Maybe an idea for April Fools, the people with high ranks come to realize what discrimination feels like.

I like how this idea makes skill play more of a part but something along the lines of World PvP with "less discrimination" seems to be in the works for GW2

If this was implemented, I'd be far more likely to discriminate than I currently do. I currently play with unranked PUGs quite frequently, but if I was losing fame for doing that I definately would.

Face it, rank discrimination is only a problem for people who are too lazy to get up and get to R3. I did, you did it and thousands of others did it. It's not that hard, just a convenient excuse for people who suck at Guild Wars to use to hide their failure.

give more fame to lower rank group who manage to win against a higher ranking group would be better :P

No idea what you're talking about.

theres still distrs filled ye?
anyway , stupid idea lose fame after a loss ? lets start from the bottom again?

lose fame coz my monk crashed...

noty

/nosign

"(except for PvE titles, which are just a meter of how much of your life was wasted trying to be able to deal +10 damage to a monster)"

LOL. The same could be said for any ingame title really.

Anyhow, it would be nice to be without the rank difficulties, yeah. Kind of a deterrent for some to even bother with trying.

Worst idea ever, people will just rq the game before losing. This will never work.

Two versions of HA:

- One like it is now.
- One with random teams. (And if y'like, no reward chest.)

Watch as the Random HA popularity suddenly soar as loads of low-ranked players who mainly stick to AB and RA because they keep getting discriminated against by the HA rankers, all decide to try out the new Random HA and find it much better than Team HA...

The law of averages would fix that though... monks on opposing teams are going to crash giving you back the fame you lost for free.

If you're having that much of a problem with your monks crashing, maybe you should reconsider who you take based on connection reliability?

Uh... pretty sure that in any pvp setting leaving provides the same result as losing (your streak ending in a loss and the other team getting a win), plus there's the potential for dishonorable (as Bryant pointed out while I was editing).

Good point.




So add further penalties to rage-quitting.

I have the ultimate fix!

You know how when a new character in PvE is made and he kills a high level monster he gets lots of XP? How about the same principle apply for PvP? If you are high rank, you get a fixed number of fame. If you are low rank, you get fame+X%, depending on level difference. And this isn't for individual players, it would be the total fame of the team. This way you would think "hmm... if we bring a r0 and kill the other team, we get MORE fame!"

Scenarios:

- A team of R8's and team of R6's play eachother. The R8 team wins and gets the default amount of fame.

- A team of R6's and team of R8's play eachother. The R6 team wins and they get the default amount of fame, and then an extra amount of fame. Maybe +15%?

- Team X with all R8's plays Team Y with R8's and 1 R4. If team X wins, they get default fame. If team Y wins, they get default plus extra amount of fame. Maybe +5% for the team and +25% for the r4?

... Nope, still won't get in a group ^_^

Fixed your post

-Alastair

This idea is good, but +15% fame? So you would earn, for example on your teamn's first win in UW, like 1.15 fame? Lol, w/e. Fix the math and extra fame gain, and we will have ourselves a perfect fame system. This encourages to get at least ONE low/un-ranked person. This weekend made me feel pretty bad, I started forming R6+ groups, and received PMs from lower ranks saying "plz take I'm good, plz". I really didn't want to risk losing time and have a slow fame gain, so I had to to run them down. I want this system to be implemented, as I also have many un/low-ranked friends who have top 100 exp (GvG= more skill than HA anyway), and groups I form would defintly be encouraged to take them and even a PUG low ranked person.

As for the idea of punishing RQ- NO. Having an err7 or sudden power surge qualifies as rage, at least for the sytem of the game....

Perhaps you missed the sticky topic at the top of this forum?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10214062

I agree finding a PUG in Ha is like finding respect on the internet. next to impossible
Yeah i get why you would rather play with r6 or r7 than a r1, but still its complete bullshit. how do people expect you to play and gain rank if no one lets you in a group? fatal flaw right there

I threw it in here since most people would likely want to see some sort of change similar to this in Gw1 as well. ( as evidenced by the posts... )

The fact is HA is dead and needs help. It should be fixed in GW1 maybe even given this exact system, and an entirely new system for 8v8 format ( assuming it will exist ) should be used.

Really the only reason why it wouldn't be a good idea to change it in GW1 is because I don't want to hear the hundreds of QQ threads from the elitists. They are the most vocal group ever and would spam guru with crap 24/7.