Alright, I have my final dervish armor until I get the elite stuff, and I am debating how I want to rune up my armor. My dervish has maxed out scythe mastery and mysticism right now, and doesn't really use his secondary profession at all. I am not sure how much an extra few points into scythe mastery would affect the critical chance and/or extra damage, but I know that if I put a few more ranks into mysticism, I'll be getting another energy back when enchants end.
I am also going to look into insignias now, but for the time being I am assuming radiant would be good for extra energy, along with a vigor rune and an attunement rune or two. I figure extra energy means more enchants to start a fight off with, which means more energy returned during a fight.
Mysticism or Scythe Mastery?
Baratus
-Lotus-
for every good build i can think of the optimal attribute setup would be:
scythe 12+1+1
Myst 12+1
and dont use radiant insignias. you shouldnt need extra energy, you shouldnt be casting that many enchantments. use something that helps you survive. survivor's and windwalker's seem to be the best choices.
scythe 12+1+1
Myst 12+1
and dont use radiant insignias. you shouldnt need extra energy, you shouldnt be casting that many enchantments. use something that helps you survive. survivor's and windwalker's seem to be the best choices.
Frozen Bacon
I agree with Lotus. Windwalker and Vitae on all available pieces. If you find yourself running low on energy, your build is probably too expensive.
Society
Quote:
Myst 12+1 Just IMHO: SM must be 12+2+1 (health loss neglected by Vigor runes) if it's main damage source.
zelgadissan
^ Completely unneeded, especially for an upfront character. I'd run 14 with higher health over 15 with lower any day.
Majors on a caster since they're out of the immediate danger area, maybe (but still no). Upfront, definitely no.
Majors on a caster since they're out of the immediate danger area, maybe (but still no). Upfront, definitely no.
joshuarodger
what's the huge difference between 15 and 14 scythe? major and sup runes are unnecessary.
-Lotus-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Society
Just IMHO: SM must be 12+2+1 (health loss neglected by Vigor runes) if it's main damage source.
health loss can not be negated. that dosnt even make sense.
Baratus
So something along the lines of SM on gloves, mysticism on head, vigor on chest, and vitae on pants and feet? I am very curious as to how much of a difference the extra rank in SM will make. It makes a big difference with mysticism since it would be three more health each time an enchantment ends, and possibly and extra energy, but what kind of extra damage are we talking about with the SM?
zelgadissan
There is no energy difference in 13 and 14 Mysticism (+4 either way) and +1 extra health on enchantment end is pretty much irrelevant. On the other hand, 14 instead of 13 Scythe Mastery means more damage from your auto-attacks, increases critical hit percentage, and increases damage from the vast majority of your skills.
-Lotus- set you right in the very first response. The only suggestion I would add is take your leftover points and put 3+1 into Wind for [Attacker's [email protected]].
-Lotus- set you right in the very first response. The only suggestion I would add is take your leftover points and put 3+1 into Wind for [Attacker's [email protected]].
-Lotus-
adding points into weapon mastery lines increases your damage alot. you can see the critical hit persentages on wiki, but it will also increase base DPS, skill damage, and attack skill bonus damage.
mysticism would be on a multiple of 3 at all times. theres not much of a reason to spec anywhere in between there as the health does nothing useful anyways. the only reason i would run 13 myst (for example) is if i had nothing betteer to do with the points and i wanted to be able to work through weakness.
mysticism would be on a multiple of 3 at all times. theres not much of a reason to spec anywhere in between there as the health does nothing useful anyways. the only reason i would run 13 myst (for example) is if i had nothing betteer to do with the points and i wanted to be able to work through weakness.
Baratus
I cannot find those percentages on the wiki. I found them for the assassain, but not for the dervish. This is why I am curious as to the amount of difference.
Also, I was thinking it was 3hp per rank, not 1hp. You're right, the one extra health is fairly irrelevant. So now I am thinking of a hood with +1 SM, a superior SM rune for +3, and maybe +1 mysticism and +1 wind prayers. Then could add a superior vigor rune and a rune of vitae to take some of the bite off of that superior SM rune.
*EDIT*
This is all I can find on the wiki for SM. The inherent effect section is blank.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Scythe_Mastery
Also, I was thinking it was 3hp per rank, not 1hp. You're right, the one extra health is fairly irrelevant. So now I am thinking of a hood with +1 SM, a superior SM rune for +3, and maybe +1 mysticism and +1 wind prayers. Then could add a superior vigor rune and a rune of vitae to take some of the bite off of that superior SM rune.
*EDIT*
This is all I can find on the wiki for SM. The inherent effect section is blank.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Scythe_Mastery
-Lotus-
dont use the superior scythe. dont use any superior runes actually (except vigor, duh), the health loss isnt worth it unless you are reaching some sort of major breakpoint.
Kirzath
You're using the wrong Wiki.
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Scythe_Mastery
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Scythe_Mastery
Baratus
Alright, so just a minor SM rune plus the SM hood? Seems like a waste. How about a major, since the superior vigor rune would counter it?
Thanks for the link, Kirzath!
Thanks for the link, Kirzath!
Darkside
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Lotus-
for every good build i can think of the optimal attribute setup would be:
scythe 12+1+1
Myst 12+1
and dont use radiant insignias. you shouldnt need extra energy, you shouldnt be casting that many enchantments. use something that helps you survive. survivor's and windwalker's seem to be the best choices. I agree with the attribute spread...pretty standard for most dervish builds. I'm not totally against radiant insignias depending on build. Tho in most cases I would agree windwalker's (if you're running a lot enchantments), and survivor's will be your best choice.
As for major and superior runes...the health sacrifice isn't worth the pitiful returns.
scythe 12+1+1
Myst 12+1
and dont use radiant insignias. you shouldnt need extra energy, you shouldnt be casting that many enchantments. use something that helps you survive. survivor's and windwalker's seem to be the best choices. I agree with the attribute spread...pretty standard for most dervish builds. I'm not totally against radiant insignias depending on build. Tho in most cases I would agree windwalker's (if you're running a lot enchantments), and survivor's will be your best choice.
As for major and superior runes...the health sacrifice isn't worth the pitiful returns.
Soor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside
As for major and superior runes...the health sacrifice isn't worth the pitiful returns.
I'll agree with that, with the qualification "for upfront characters" someone gave above.
My ranger definitely enjoys his superior marksmanship, but if i put one in my derv i'd feel i was shooting myself in the foot.
As for radiant/attunement, that depends.
There are some builds ive tried that work well but need large amounts of energy - AoM comes to mind - but they're mostly(all?) PvE builds.
Unless you're planning to use perma-AoM in PvE, I'd stop at most @ 30 energy so DP won't stop you from pulling all your enchantments up at once. If you need more, you're probably doing something wrong or need to get a good +energy wand/focus set to switch to.
My ranger definitely enjoys his superior marksmanship, but if i put one in my derv i'd feel i was shooting myself in the foot.
As for radiant/attunement, that depends.
There are some builds ive tried that work well but need large amounts of energy - AoM comes to mind - but they're mostly(all?) PvE builds.
Unless you're planning to use perma-AoM in PvE, I'd stop at most @ 30 energy so DP won't stop you from pulling all your enchantments up at once. If you need more, you're probably doing something wrong or need to get a good +energy wand/focus set to switch to.
Baratus
Well I need a few nice scythe skills that I do not have yet, such as Lyssa's Assault, but I will have them soon. I plan on getting LA today by running Blacktide again and stealing it from Khayet. That will help a lot, as my current build is an energy-hog.
I use "Heart of Holy Flame", followed by "Pious Assault", "Chilling Victory", "Eternal Aura", and finally, "Twin Moon Sweep". I can't wait to get more of those five energy skills, it'll help a ton. I am using "Suli's Scythe" though, which is zealous in the sense that it removes one energy regen, but gives me one energy on hit, and it has helped IMMENSELY. I also have a plain, max-damage gold scythe (Nightmare Scythe) that I am waiting to apply Zealous and either Enchanting or Fortitude to.
I use "Heart of Holy Flame", followed by "Pious Assault", "Chilling Victory", "Eternal Aura", and finally, "Twin Moon Sweep". I can't wait to get more of those five energy skills, it'll help a ton. I am using "Suli's Scythe" though, which is zealous in the sense that it removes one energy regen, but gives me one energy on hit, and it has helped IMMENSELY. I also have a plain, max-damage gold scythe (Nightmare Scythe) that I am waiting to apply Zealous and either Enchanting or Fortitude to.
Burst Cancel
If you need higher energy pools for particular casts, you get +energy weapon sets, not attunement/radiant; it's much easier to swap weapons than armor sets.
Flail can replace HoF provided you're not powering other adrenal skills. You can also run Whirling Charge with Dwarven Stability.
If you're going to run a lot of 10e attack skills, take Attacker's Insight. In reality though, most of the best attack skills are low-energy and low-recharge (e.g., Wounding Strike, Victorious Sweep, Mystic Sweep, Wild Blow, etc.).
Flail can replace HoF provided you're not powering other adrenal skills. You can also run Whirling Charge with Dwarven Stability.
If you're going to run a lot of 10e attack skills, take Attacker's Insight. In reality though, most of the best attack skills are low-energy and low-recharge (e.g., Wounding Strike, Victorious Sweep, Mystic Sweep, Wild Blow, etc.).
Baratus
I know, and I want those low-energy skills, but I can't get them yet. I am dying for victorious sweep. I did capture "Lyssa's Assault" today though. That should help for now.
-Lotus-
play pvp for 15 minutes and you should be able to unlock victorious, mystic and eremite's
Darkside
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
If you need higher energy pools for particular casts, you get +energy weapon sets, not attunement/radiant; it's much easier to swap weapons than armor sets.
Flail can replace HoF provided you're not powering other adrenal skills. You can also run Whirling Charge with Dwarven Stability.
If you're going to run a lot of 10e attack skills, take Attacker's Insight. In reality though, most of the best attack skills are low-energy and low-recharge (e.g., Wounding Strike, Victorious Sweep, Mystic Sweep, Wild Blow, etc.). I'm not a fan of + energy weapon sets on melee characters. I often see people post that if you're running AoM you should bring a staff. Well that's wonderful you can recast AoM then switch back to your scythe and have no energy to do anything but c space. Where as if you have attunement/radiants on your armor that energy is always there.
Flail can replace HoF provided you're not powering other adrenal skills. You can also run Whirling Charge with Dwarven Stability.
If you're going to run a lot of 10e attack skills, take Attacker's Insight. In reality though, most of the best attack skills are low-energy and low-recharge (e.g., Wounding Strike, Victorious Sweep, Mystic Sweep, Wild Blow, etc.). I'm not a fan of + energy weapon sets on melee characters. I often see people post that if you're running AoM you should bring a staff. Well that's wonderful you can recast AoM then switch back to your scythe and have no energy to do anything but c space. Where as if you have attunement/radiants on your armor that energy is always there.
joshuarodger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baratus
Alright, so just a minor SM rune plus the SM hood? Seems like a waste. How about a major, since the superior vigor rune would counter it?
Thanks for the link, Kirzath! you should try and forget about the superior vigor rune "cancelling" health loss from a major/superior attribute rune. you would have the vigor rune whether or not you're using all minor attribute runes or all superior att. runes. the only noticeable difference for most negative health runes 90% of the time is a loss of health.
Thanks for the link, Kirzath! you should try and forget about the superior vigor rune "cancelling" health loss from a major/superior attribute rune. you would have the vigor rune whether or not you're using all minor attribute runes or all superior att. runes. the only noticeable difference for most negative health runes 90% of the time is a loss of health.
Burst Cancel
Ultimately what matters is how quickly you can get your nrg back; the size of the pool is only relevant at the beginning of the fight, assuming constant use of nrg. Think about it this way: you have two characters, one with 20 nrg and one with 30. They each have three 10e spells. The guy with 30 nrg can use all three upfront, while the other guy can only use two, but after that they're completely even because the rate at which they regain energy is the same.
-Lotus-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside
I'm not a fan of + energy weapon sets on melee characters. I often see people post that if you're running AoM you should bring a staff. Well that's wonderful you can recast AoM then switch back to your scythe and have no energy to do anything but c space. Where as if you have attunement/radiants on your armor that energy is always there.
like burst attempted to explain the energy pool dosnt matter much after the precast section of the fight. Casting AoM then swapping to a scythe will put you into the negatives a little, but then you will be ready to enter the fight, and with a zealous scythe you will be a comfortable energy level in a few seconds.
Cebe
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Lotus-
scythe 12+1+1
Myst 12+1 I would suggest this for most PvE builds, but when I want to spec into a third attribute I use a Mysticism headpiece:
Scythe 12 + 1
Mysticism: 10 + 1 + 1
Third Attribute: 8 (+ 1)
I try to keep Mysticism at at least 12 as much as possible.
Myst 12+1 I would suggest this for most PvE builds, but when I want to spec into a third attribute I use a Mysticism headpiece:
Scythe 12 + 1
Mysticism: 10 + 1 + 1
Third Attribute: 8 (+ 1)
I try to keep Mysticism at at least 12 as much as possible.
Darkside
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Lotus-
like burst attempted to explain the energy pool dosnt matter much after the precast section of the fight. Casting AoM then swapping to a scythe will put you into the negatives a little, but then you will be ready to enter the fight, and with a zealous scythe you will be a comfortable energy level in a few seconds.
Well whatever you two say all I know is that since I switched up some of my runes using a combination of survivor, rad and attun I've not had as many issues with energy as I used to. So whenever I use Melandru I use an armor set with a little bit more energy.
Also if you're energy pool is in the negative and you're only facing small groups or ones that are spaced out so that you cannot strike more then one target you're energy pool will not fill up very quickly even with a zealous scythe. I noticed this a lot particularly when doing early HM missions where the enemy groups are small and it's difficult to strike more then one target at a time.
Also if you're energy pool is in the negative and you're only facing small groups or ones that are spaced out so that you cannot strike more then one target you're energy pool will not fill up very quickly even with a zealous scythe. I noticed this a lot particularly when doing early HM missions where the enemy groups are small and it's difficult to strike more then one target at a time.
illidan009
I think it's a better idea for dervishes to have 3 attributes as opposed to SM and Myst...for PvE pimp up earth for mystic regen...so good...or get wind prayers for attacker's insight so you can fit more expensive atk skills on...
Burst Cancel
Dervish bars are too crowded to take stuff like Mystic Regen. As for Insight, there aren't many 10e scythe attacks, and of those only Chilling or Pious are any good.
zelgadissan
Agreed with Burst - not to mention you can throw your leftover points into Wind (3+1) to get Attacker's Insight really as high as you should ever need it: [Attacker's [email protected]]
-Lotus-
Quote:
Originally Posted by illidan009
I think it's a better idea for dervishes to have 3 attributes as opposed to SM and Myst...for PvE pimp up earth for mystic regen...so good...or get wind prayers for attacker's insight so you can fit more expensive atk skills on...
mystic regen is a terrible skill outside of farming situations. it only provides regen. regen sucks. and you dont need any other support type skills from earth/wind. they just take away from your damage.