VoR vs SS
Zeek Aran
Please tell me why VoR exists.
fenix
What are you talking about?
VoR is fantastic.
VoR is fantastic.
garethporlest18
Well VoR is more useful in certain situations, seeing as it does way more damage than SS.
Zeek Aran
How is it better than SS? I wish to know.
Dark Desicration
Elite Hex Spell. Also hexes foes adjacent to target (10 seconds). These foes take 15...75...90 damage whenever they use a skill.
Check the bold part. Use that on a group instead of SS and then you have multiple foes hexed all causing 90 damage to each other.
Check the bold part. Use that on a group instead of SS and then you have multiple foes hexed all causing 90 damage to each other.
fenix
Yeah, AoE damage makes it very strong. Quite good in PvP also.
Arkantos
VoR != SS
Mesmer != Necromancer
Both are good in their own situations. VoR does more single target damage, SS does more AoE damage (unless all your enemies are adjacent to the target you VoR'd, then VoR is better).
Mesmer != Necromancer
Both are good in their own situations. VoR does more single target damage, SS does more AoE damage (unless all your enemies are adjacent to the target you VoR'd, then VoR is better).
snaek
ss=pve
vor=pvp?
and i dunno if vor does more dmg in pve...
monster spend a lot of time on auto-attack
not to mention vor has downtime and ss can be spammed like mad
maybe it does more "spikey" dmg
vor=pvp?
and i dunno if vor does more dmg in pve...
monster spend a lot of time on auto-attack
not to mention vor has downtime and ss can be spammed like mad
maybe it does more "spikey" dmg
Senrath
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Originally Posted by Zeek Aran
Please tell me why VoR exists.
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VoR: Only on skills. Hexes target and adjacent targets. Deals over twice the damage.
I'd say both are good, VoR better in some situations, SS better in others.
AKB48
VoR affects ALL skills which is like a more universal version of blackfire.
And backfire is no joke =D
And backfire is no joke =D
Zeek Aran
Okay, so how is SS + arcane echo not far superior?
EDIT
For single target damage, I'd think SV would be better. Enemies in PvE attack far more than they use skills.
EDIT
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
Both are good in their own situations. VoR does more single target damage, SS does more AoE damage (unless all your enemies are adjacent to the target you VoR'd, then VoR is better).
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fenix
Because SS + Arcane Echo sucks if you're a Mesmer.
HawkofStorms
VoR exists because SS should have always been a mesmer skill in the first place.
Please don't take VoR away. I've actually been able to play my mesmer in PvE and have fun with him again (that and several PvE oriented skills from NF/GW:EN like aneryusum). Yes, I know mesmers aren't supposed to be dealing damage and disruption is a heck of a lot of fun in PvP, but in PvE it is kinda pointless.
Also, you really have to look at what you are farming/fighting. If its some PvE mob that triggers a stance every 2 seconds, VoR is WAY better.
Please don't take VoR away. I've actually been able to play my mesmer in PvE and have fun with him again (that and several PvE oriented skills from NF/GW:EN like aneryusum). Yes, I know mesmers aren't supposed to be dealing damage and disruption is a heck of a lot of fun in PvP, but in PvE it is kinda pointless.
Also, you really have to look at what you are farming/fighting. If its some PvE mob that triggers a stance every 2 seconds, VoR is WAY better.
Dark Desicration
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Originally Posted by Zeek Aran
Okay, so how is SS + arcane echo not far superior?
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snaek
well...lets compare...
ss = 20s duration, 10s recharge, 35dmg every action
vor = 10s duration, 20s recharge, 90dmg every skill
how many actions will a monster do in 20s?
vs how many skills a monster will use in 10s?
then u have to wait for teh 20s downtime
so they will be 10s of no vor
meanwhile, an ss necro will be able to have 2 simultaneous ss' goin on
(and im not even talkin bout an echo'd ss)
ss = 20s duration, 10s recharge, 35dmg every action
vor = 10s duration, 20s recharge, 90dmg every skill
how many actions will a monster do in 20s?
vs how many skills a monster will use in 10s?
then u have to wait for teh 20s downtime
so they will be 10s of no vor
meanwhile, an ss necro will be able to have 2 simultaneous ss' goin on
(and im not even talkin bout an echo'd ss)
Arkantos
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| For single target damage, I'd think SV would be better. Enemies in PvE attack far more than they use skills. |
Nessar
VoR + Empathy pretty much pwns in pvp. I love spiking stuff with it <3
Pwny Ride
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Originally Posted by Nessar
VoR + Empathy pretty much pwns in pvp. I love spiking stuff with it <3
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Also the whole 'combo' spell is appealing. Either VoR + Empathy or VoR + Backfire (a healthy* 200+ damage per spell casted), takes care of pretty much anything ive come across (bar decent hex removal, as expected).
And if they do nothing and try to wait for the hexes to wear off? Why not throw wastrels worry (100+ damage a pop) and/or demise in there for some little extra pressure?
the changing of this one skill opened up alot of options for me, personally (i honestly got tired of powerblock domination building :/).
As for being better than SS? Well now mesmers also have pve vability* I really enjoy seeing yellow 90's pop up all over the place whilst having a full mesmer skill bar.
Kikuta
Casting each spell on a single target, VoR is superior. It will cause more DPS on a monster in PvE, and have the same result or act as a shutdown for any class in PvP.
Casting each spell on one foe in a mob of foes adjacent to each other, VoR wins again. You're hexing all the foes in the mob, unlike SS where you're only casting the spell on one foe, but affecting all of them. That said, 37 damage to all the foes whenever the hexed foe performs any action (attack or skill) isn't as good as 90 damage for each foe whenever they use a skill - but of course, it really depends where you're using the skills. In PvE, it all depends on how many skills the monsters have, and their recharge times. If you're fighting in EotN areas, VoR wins. If you're fighting anywhere else, SS will take over (excluding Elite Missions). Whether you're playing in Hard Mode is a highly influencing factor as well - SS will smash VoR in DPS terms if you cast each spell on a melee character in Hard Mode.
If you introduce Arcane Echo to the equation, SS wins outright. You're effectively doubling it's DPS if you cast it in the above mob situation where every enemy is affected.
Keep in mind that the amount of damage the two skills can do will increase with each enemy in the mob. Mathematically, I think Spiteful Spirit would do far more damage with a single cast to a mob of 20 enemies (assuming all enemies are taking the damage) than VoR in the same situation.
Casting each spell on one foe in a mob of foes adjacent to each other, VoR wins again. You're hexing all the foes in the mob, unlike SS where you're only casting the spell on one foe, but affecting all of them. That said, 37 damage to all the foes whenever the hexed foe performs any action (attack or skill) isn't as good as 90 damage for each foe whenever they use a skill - but of course, it really depends where you're using the skills. In PvE, it all depends on how many skills the monsters have, and their recharge times. If you're fighting in EotN areas, VoR wins. If you're fighting anywhere else, SS will take over (excluding Elite Missions). Whether you're playing in Hard Mode is a highly influencing factor as well - SS will smash VoR in DPS terms if you cast each spell on a melee character in Hard Mode.
If you introduce Arcane Echo to the equation, SS wins outright. You're effectively doubling it's DPS if you cast it in the above mob situation where every enemy is affected.
Keep in mind that the amount of damage the two skills can do will increase with each enemy in the mob. Mathematically, I think Spiteful Spirit would do far more damage with a single cast to a mob of 20 enemies (assuming all enemies are taking the damage) than VoR in the same situation.
jonnieboi05
pwny ride speaks truth. ^^
nelifaroma
VOR is so overpowered in RA but then again, anet dont give a damn about RA. ironically its the most played pvp type match in gw.
VOR + empathy owns melee
VOR + worry owns casters
so basically mes > everything else in RA generally
VOR + empathy owns melee
VOR + worry owns casters
so basically mes > everything else in RA generally
cthulhu reborn
Funny thread this.
VoR was a necessary skill upgrade for mesmers who always missed that extra bit of damage dealing potential, which has been a point of discussion pretty much since the game came out. Anet went with 10 classes and they do their best (for better or for worse) to make them all viable somehow.
In PvP, even in RA most monks tend to bring things like holy veil or cure hex, so if VoR owns RA then it's the players' fault really. I still remember being surprised when I started playing RA how many melee characters kept attacking furiously even with empathy or insidious parasite on them. Honestly if a skill like that owns RA, don't blame the skill.
The comparison to skills like SS is of course logical but there are more skills out there that have similar types of effect. Reversal of damage and vengeful weapon for example. Are you gonna complain about them being similar aswell?
Then for the off comment that blood magic sucks, well, that's just silly. I really don't think it needs explanation, so I will just assume that the person in question either simply doesn't like blood or doesn't get it.
Back on subject, there have been a few elite updates when VoR was updated and the truth is that it was much needed since some of these skills were underpowered for elites. So yeah this one has now become the flavour of the month but it certainly doesn't make mesmers invincible.
VoR was a necessary skill upgrade for mesmers who always missed that extra bit of damage dealing potential, which has been a point of discussion pretty much since the game came out. Anet went with 10 classes and they do their best (for better or for worse) to make them all viable somehow.
In PvP, even in RA most monks tend to bring things like holy veil or cure hex, so if VoR owns RA then it's the players' fault really. I still remember being surprised when I started playing RA how many melee characters kept attacking furiously even with empathy or insidious parasite on them. Honestly if a skill like that owns RA, don't blame the skill.
The comparison to skills like SS is of course logical but there are more skills out there that have similar types of effect. Reversal of damage and vengeful weapon for example. Are you gonna complain about them being similar aswell?
Then for the off comment that blood magic sucks, well, that's just silly. I really don't think it needs explanation, so I will just assume that the person in question either simply doesn't like blood or doesn't get it.
Back on subject, there have been a few elite updates when VoR was updated and the truth is that it was much needed since some of these skills were underpowered for elites. So yeah this one has now become the flavour of the month but it certainly doesn't make mesmers invincible.
Laylat
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Originally Posted by nelifaroma
VOR is so overpowered in RA but then again, anet dont give a damn about RA. ironically its the most played pvp type match in gw.
VOR + empathy owns melee VOR + worry owns casters so basically mes > everything else in RA generally |
As far as SS & VoR comparison, they are two skills used by two different professions and have a different way of doing decent damage. Thinking one is better than the other is a matter of opinion and dependent on how often foes use skills vs attack. Get two heroes and equip one on each... Foes in go down really quick
Pwny Ride
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Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn
Then for the off comment that blood magic sucks, well, that's just silly. I really don't think it needs explanation, so I will just assume that the person in question either simply doesn't like blood or doesn't get it.
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Malaise
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Originally Posted by Pwny Ride
Well it certainly never was a meta-breaking attribute. Unlike domination, which still and always has played a decent part in GvG. Havent seen Blood Magic making even a dent.
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Cebe
VoR laughs in the face of Touch Necros and the like.
Touch-Bite-Touch-Bite-Tou...wtf?
Touch-Bite-Touch-Bite-Tou...wtf?
cellardweller
VoR triggers spirit bond whereas SS goes under it.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by cellardweller
VoR triggers spirit bond whereas SS goes under it.
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i like Visions of Regret better cause it hexes more than 1 target and does more damage and if you add in backfire on type of the damage its already doing its overpowered, but SS is better in heavy melee areas cause you can add in Reckless Haste.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Nessar
VoR + Empathy pretty much pwns in pvp. I love spiking stuff with it <3
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In PvP, I'd go with VoR and in PvE, SS.
In PvE everything autoattacks, so SS wins out for me.
In PvP, VoR mixed with Wastrel's Worry gives them damage regardless of if they cast or not, and VoR chained with Backfire really screws casters.
uzumaki
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Originally Posted by Pwny Ride
No longer do i have to opt completely for an illusion build to have a counter vs narutards.
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GG!
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Originally Posted by Tyla
In PvP, I'd go with VoR and in PvE, SS.
In PvE everything autoattacks, so SS wins out for me. |
Lord Sojar
VoR > SS, especially in PvP. SS is a minor annoyance, VoR is extremely dangerous.
upier
In PvE - I'd go with Assassin's Promise. Possibly Discord on the necro if running a hero.
In PvP - Diversion.
Neither of the skills in question will stop me from doing what I should be doing - Diversion will.
In PvP - Diversion.
Neither of the skills in question will stop me from doing what I should be doing - Diversion will.
Tender Care
VoR in pvp= i'm not so dumb to use skills when i'm hexed with VoR, but at least i can attack
SS= can't do nothing if u don't wanna suicide and spam SS to the others.
Also: VoR deals much more dmg than SS but it's limited to using skills, SS deal dmg whatever u do.....
VoR in pvp is to be nerfed imo.
SS= can't do nothing if u don't wanna suicide and spam SS to the others.
Also: VoR deals much more dmg than SS but it's limited to using skills, SS deal dmg whatever u do.....
VoR in pvp is to be nerfed imo.
Avarre
Diversion won't literally stop someone from doing something either (not many will, but sometimes if it's a potential kill, players will cast through). In both cases, the hexes present a major cost to the action of the target. In a hex team, where the objective is to pressure the opposing side into submission, making the opponents' character take additional damage to do their job is a large incentive to make them stop entirely, as the team is already under huge partywide pressure. Hence, it acts as a sort of encouraged shutdown, or can help deal additional damage if they work through it.
Different skills, both with a role.
Different skills, both with a role.
upier
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Diversion won't literally stop someone from doing something either (not many will, but sometimes if it's a potential kill, players will cast through).
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The big problem is, like you mentioned, that we are dealing with two elites that are not only part of an 8 skill build but also part of a 8 man, 64-skill build.
So considering that - it's the other 62 skills that will make a much bigger the difference then these two alone.
cthulhu reborn
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Originally Posted by Tender Care
VoR in pvp= i'm not so dumb to use skills when i'm hexed with VoR, but at least i can attack
SS= can't do nothing if u don't wanna suicide and spam SS to the others. Also: VoR deals much more dmg than SS but it's limited to using skills, SS deal dmg whatever u do..... VoR in pvp is to be nerfed imo. |
SS does damage but not enough to be a combo stopper...I've killed sins with VoR because they use a string of skills to do their killing stuff...he died before I did.
And in the end most damage comes from skills and not basic attacks...for most warriors or any melee really the combination of Empathy, VoR and some enchant kill really takes the angle out of them.
Take the over used shock warrior...Shock triggers VoR, conjure lightning is taken off by ench removal and basic attacks don't do as much damage as Empathy deals back. Because of fast casting the warrior is generally not fast enough to prevent the mesmer from doing this before he gets into the melee. The necro better use the non elite called insidious parasite for melee characters.
Also SS doesn't keep a monk from healing especially himself as he heals much more than taking damage....VoR does a lot more there. So all in all SS is much less dangerous. And if the enemy team is dumb enough to be so close together that SS does damage around the team than VoR is even better when applied to a monk under pressure trying to keep himself alive...now that's deadly.
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by Dark Desicration
Elite Hex Spell. Also hexes foes adjacent to target (10 seconds). These foes take 15...75...90 damage whenever they use a skill.
Check the bold part. Use that on a group instead of SS and then you have multiple foes hexed all causing 90 damage to each other. |
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Originally Posted by AKB48
VoR affects ALL skills which is like a more universal version of blackfire.
And backfire is no joke =D |
N1ghtstalker
VoR is more for pvp and SS is for PvE
Productivity
In PVE on it's own, not taking into account the relative strength of domination and curses into account, VoR is better than SS if you don't suck at the game.
If you are good at Guild Wars, you will be steam rollering through mobs and the initial burst of damage you get out of monsters firing off all their skills is far more effective than the slow build up of damage that SS gives. The downtime doesn't matter because if you kill an enemy in 10s (which you should easily be doing), it doesn't matter if your SS lasts an additional 10s or not.
If you're bad at Guild Wars and measure the time it takes to kill a mob in minutes, then you should run SS. The increased uptime and trigger on anything nature of it means that it's a long run better performer once the monsters have stopped button mashing their spells because they are recharging and start wanding.
However, the above analysis doesn't take into account the relative strength of the lines in PVE, where curses is a far stronger line due to Barbs, Enfeebling Blood, Rip Enchant and Rend Enchantment. That's why I run a SS necro and not a VoR mesmer, but SS is a junk elite, it's just that there is nothing better to run.
If you are good at Guild Wars, you will be steam rollering through mobs and the initial burst of damage you get out of monsters firing off all their skills is far more effective than the slow build up of damage that SS gives. The downtime doesn't matter because if you kill an enemy in 10s (which you should easily be doing), it doesn't matter if your SS lasts an additional 10s or not.
If you're bad at Guild Wars and measure the time it takes to kill a mob in minutes, then you should run SS. The increased uptime and trigger on anything nature of it means that it's a long run better performer once the monsters have stopped button mashing their spells because they are recharging and start wanding.
However, the above analysis doesn't take into account the relative strength of the lines in PVE, where curses is a far stronger line due to Barbs, Enfeebling Blood, Rip Enchant and Rend Enchantment. That's why I run a SS necro and not a VoR mesmer, but SS is a junk elite, it's just that there is nothing better to run.
cthulhu reborn
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Originally Posted by legacyofkain85
they dont compare each other ,use vor on a group of melee and use ss on a group of melee,vor will deal dmg to each foe individually while ss will deal Aoe dmg to all foes whenever the hexed foe Atacks or uses a Skill,unlike vor which triggers whenver foes use a skill,and another bonus feature of ss is that the more copyes of it u get in a mob the more dmg it does.
nope backfire is no joke id say its quite crap,there is a reason u dont see people in pvp use backfire,heck i dont even use it in pve ,and heroes with backfire and interupts on their bar fail |
SS does have that great effect on mobs, but I would think that decent pvp teams do not mob together. We can expect the monsters in pve to mob together but that's great for VoR aswell. (although when it comes to mobs my Ritu Splinter Barrager laughs at both SS and VoR)
You are correct in saying that SS and VoR are not the same but SS is really only effective against pve mobs and dumb pvp teams. In any other situation the damage is too low to be a direct danger and easily healed. VoR is better against spell casters but also great against sins and dervishes who do rely on skills like enchantments a lot. That and the amount of damage it does makes VoR better in my view.