So, I guess I've run out of things to talk about, and I'm bored. Thus I've decided to start a series of threads.
Each week on Tuesday night, I will post a thread about one elite skill that is generally meaningless. I'll state why it's meaningless, and I'll suggest a change.
I admit this is much inspired by that wonderful update where Izzy changed about 20(?) elite skills. I liked that change. Honestly. I don't like "grind-the-skills-into-the-ground" balancing. Nevertheless I'll try not to turn every skill into PvP Ursan Blessing.
I also would like to point out that I am not deluding myself into thinking a change will be made. These are only threads for discussion.
Here we go;
Skill Description:
[Palm Strike]
Palm Strike
Critical Strikes
Elite Touch Skill
Energy: 5
Activation: 3/4
Recharge: 10
Target touched foe takes 10...70 damage. This skill counts as an off-hand attack.
Why does it suck?
Ever since I saw this skill and capped this skill, I've wanted to use it for something. I mean, who doesn't want to "Palm Strike" someone once in a while?
I've tried, and I tried. I've yet to succeed to create anything in the least meaningful.
Apparently I'm not alone. I've never seen this incarnation of a skill used for anything. Ever.
It could not be made non-Elite, this would make building for A too easy. At the same time it's very underpowered. Damage isn't enough for only being damage. Damage is all it is. Chain building utility is marginal since you can't bring a meaningful Elite.
I propose a thorough, simple and beautiful workover:
[Palm Strike]
Palm Strike
Unlinked
Elite Skill
Energy: 5
Activation: -
Recharge: ?
Your next Melee Attack skill strikes twice but inflicts no base damage. (10 seconds)
This would make it a unique skill. The only way to induce "double-strikes" on non-daggers. It would make for class synergies since it'd be unlinked. I don't think there would be too much potential for abuse, though I can think of some issues.
Ideas? Comments?
The Useless Elite Of The Week: Palm Strike
Moloch Vein
zelgadissan
Out of curiosity, how would you propose this to work on daggers? Say for example you did a dagger chain, paused after the offhand, did Palm Strike, then maybe [[Blades of Steel]? Three hits (double first hit, single second)? Four?
I don't think it should be called Palm Strike anymore if it's not a touch skill, but all in all your proposal would certainly be better than it is now. I approve.
I don't think it should be called Palm Strike anymore if it's not a touch skill, but all in all your proposal would certainly be better than it is now. I approve.
legacyofkain85
they should add a kd to it ,might be overpowered tho after since it can be folowed up by a dual atack
o man i was just about post that to,remebered it
Quote:
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Originally Posted by NoXiFy
ever looked at wastrels collapse? Way worse sin elite. [wastrels collapse]
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NoXiFy
ever looked at wastrels collapse? Way worse sin elite. [wastrels collapse]
silavor
Wastrel's collapse is so broken I don't think anyone can fix it.
As for your suggestion, I don't see how it would be any different besides dealing less damage. From a mathematical prospective, any sin with a decent investment in critical strikes will do between 70 and 90 damage from this skill. With your change, say a warrior uses it with some axe skill that hits for +40 damage (Executioner's strike, I think it was?). By hitting twice, it will deal 80 damage guaranteed but you lose out on any attack benefit your axe and strength might have provided.
Not to flame your suggestion or anything, but in general when you make a build take two skills to have the same effect a single skill had it's normally called nerfing, not buffing.
As for your suggestion, I don't see how it would be any different besides dealing less damage. From a mathematical prospective, any sin with a decent investment in critical strikes will do between 70 and 90 damage from this skill. With your change, say a warrior uses it with some axe skill that hits for +40 damage (Executioner's strike, I think it was?). By hitting twice, it will deal 80 damage guaranteed but you lose out on any attack benefit your axe and strength might have provided.
Not to flame your suggestion or anything, but in general when you make a build take two skills to have the same effect a single skill had it's normally called nerfing, not buffing.
Greedy Gus
Would be pretty amazing to hit a double final thrust. Cool suggestion
kvndoom
Its reasoning for being an elite is because it's a lead-skip that does a large amount of armor-ignoring damage. Unfortunately someone forgot about [golden phoenix strike]. 10 second recharge is what kills this skill, especially with GPS at 8. For this to be elite-worthy and still balanced, the recharge needs to be dropped to 5, maybe even 4 seconds, and the damage reduced. Or make the damage type Blunt (don't guess your palm is very Slashing or Piercing) so that it's not armor-ignoring. It would still be inferior to [Moebius Strike], but perhaps not utterly useless.
You could give it some utility, such as a KD, but why waste an elite when you have [Shock]? For a very brief moment (maybe a millisecond), I thought it would be cool to have it make you shadow step to your foe and do some damage, but then my brain caught up and reminded me what teleporting has done to this once-great game for the last 2 years, and the idea went away. :-\
You could give it some utility, such as a KD, but why waste an elite when you have [Shock]? For a very brief moment (maybe a millisecond), I thought it would be cool to have it make you shadow step to your foe and do some damage, but then my brain caught up and reminded me what teleporting has done to this once-great game for the last 2 years, and the idea went away. :-\
gerlin
I have made a build with it and its rules 
.
I only use it in AB because i don't find it imba enough for RA (sway-scythe ftw).
I think this skill is far from broken. A offhand attack that's undodgeable/blockable and deals 90 dmg(i use 16 crits always)? Although i agree with kvndoom that the recharge should be dropped to 8 with same damage, any less and the damage should drop too.
.I only use it in AB because i don't find it imba enough for RA (sway-scythe ftw).
I think this skill is far from broken. A offhand attack that's undodgeable/blockable and deals 90 dmg(i use 16 crits always)? Although i agree with kvndoom that the recharge should be dropped to 8 with same damage, any less and the damage should drop too.
KoKoS
i think it's elite cuz u can use an off-hand attack without having to use lead attck... dunn0 though, i was never good on sins 
Konig Des Todes
[Skull Crack] is a very similar skill to [Palm Strike] Imo, only difference is the adrenaline/energy cost and of course the recharge. I think a good change to Palm Strike would be at make it double strike and interrupt. Or have it interrupt and reduce the recharge. But not all three. Knockdown would make it overpowered, but interrupt would be rather useful (as aside from the 3 dazing skills, there are only 2 interrupt skills, 5 out of 110 skills to interrupt, why not make it 6).
So my suggestions are either:
1. Strike Twice and interrupt. No other change.
or
2. Reduce Recharge to 4 seconds and add interrupt.
Adding some damage and turning the damage type to Blunt would not be a bad ideas as well and could work with either of the above two suggestions.
So my suggestions are either:
1. Strike Twice and interrupt. No other change.
or
2. Reduce Recharge to 4 seconds and add interrupt.
Adding some damage and turning the damage type to Blunt would not be a bad ideas as well and could work with either of the above two suggestions.
Age
I would say that most Sin dagger elites are pretty useless look at Moebius Strike needs another dual attack.
There are a lot of others out there [100 blades] [life sheath].
There are a lot of others out there [100 blades] [life sheath].
Sniper22
[Stone Sheath]
This skill is not even worthy of being a non-elite skill.
Um ya so suggestion, to make it more usable on non-assassins and stand out from dulled weapon, reduce damage output of hexed foes.
This skill is not even worthy of being a non-elite skill.
Um ya so suggestion, to make it more usable on non-assassins and stand out from dulled weapon, reduce damage output of hexed foes.
ALF71BE
WHAT A USELESS SKILL ON MY GW?!?
[healing hands].
[healing hands].
Zahr Dalsk
[signet of spirits] because it's a lesser version of [offering of spirit]
No reason to ever take Signet of Spirits.
No reason to ever take Signet of Spirits.
draxynnic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kvndoom
Its reasoning for being an elite is because it's a lead-skip that does a large amount of armor-ignoring damage. Unfortunately someone forgot about [golden phoenix strike]. 10 second recharge is what kills this skill, especially with GPS at 8. For this to be elite-worthy and still balanced, the recharge needs to be dropped to 5, maybe even 4 seconds, and the damage reduced. Or make the damage type Blunt (don't guess your palm is very Slashing or Piercing) so that it's not armor-ignoring. It would still be inferior to [Moebius Strike], but perhaps not utterly useless.
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Idly, [Stone Sheath] can be quite useful as part of a team build - give as many party members [Mantra of Earth] as reasonably possible, and you can significantly reduce incoming damage as well as giving everyone energy whenever they get hit.
Sniper22
Quote:
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Idly, [Stone Sheath] can be quite useful as part of a team build - give as many party members [Mantra of Earth] as reasonably possible, and you can significantly reduce incoming damage as well as giving everyone energy whenever they get hit.
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N1ghtstalker
[quicksand]
anyone got a use for this?
anyone got a use for this?
Shadowhaze
I actually made a build and used Palm Strike in it for a while. Worked decent enough. But yeah, the recharge time can be annoying. I've seen some other sins using it recently, though I don't know what their build was.
Worked decent enough. But yeah, the recharge time can be annoying. I've seen some other sins using it recently, though I don't know what their build was.
Wetader
I'm not a ranger by profession, but while checking wiki I found 2 skills that are oddly placed.
Quick Shot (ELITE)- shoots an arrow twice as fast. Cost 5 energy, 1 sec activation and 1 sec recharge.
Called Shot- shoots an arrow three times faster and can't be blocked. Cost 5 energy, no activation time, 3 sec recharge.
I think the normal skill is much over powered than the elite except for 3 sec recharge. Do you guys think this is right?
Quick Shot (ELITE)- shoots an arrow twice as fast. Cost 5 energy, 1 sec activation and 1 sec recharge.
Called Shot- shoots an arrow three times faster and can't be blocked. Cost 5 energy, no activation time, 3 sec recharge.
I think the normal skill is much over powered than the elite except for 3 sec recharge. Do you guys think this is right?
mastar of warrior
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ALF71BE
WHAT A USELESS SKILL ON MY GW?!?
[healing hands]. |
THAT MY FRIEND , IS AN INSULT TO ALL WAMMOS OF GW!
[healing hands][mending][frenzy][healing signet]
ftw!
Hugh Manatee
I think we should limit discussion to the skill moloch posted.
About Palm strike, maybe if it did KD if the target was below a certain % of health or if they were moving(like an assassin [bulls strike]). I kind of like the idea of reducing the recharge a little,but if you look at the recharges of many of the dual attacks, many are at least 8 seconds. Death blossom is an oddity at 2, and critical strike is the next fastest at 6, and twisting and HotO are 15 and 12.
One use for palm strike is that after using [shadow walk] you have an attack, then you jump straight into twisting fangs or some such.
It's an attack that lets you set up a quick spike, like instead of steady pressure([gold fox strike][wild strike][death blossom] repeatedly), or trying to do a KD chain, you can take it and a couple more attack skills and attack something else quickly, picture 2 assassins with [palm strike], [twisting fangs], and [critical strike] or [death blossom] and another lead skip like [Black spider Strike] or [Gold Phoenix Strike], one does it's twisting combo, the other it's other attack, then they reverse on a target they port to. assisted by the third melee or midliners, they'd get kills, question is would they get them before they died...
It's kind of like what Brawling headbut>steelfang does in pve, maybe it's just me but after I headbutt something the next attack comes very quickly(especially in an ias stance), then I can steelfang something before it gets up and re-charge the chain. I've also been having a bit of fun with [rage of the ntouka], dismember and agonizing chop, with flail and rush and lions comfort available constantly, palm strike is a skill that facilitates quick unloads and target swaps
Edit: and BTW [healing hands] will make NPCs in fort aspenwood or AB damn near invincible...
About Palm strike, maybe if it did KD if the target was below a certain % of health or if they were moving(like an assassin [bulls strike]). I kind of like the idea of reducing the recharge a little,but if you look at the recharges of many of the dual attacks, many are at least 8 seconds. Death blossom is an oddity at 2, and critical strike is the next fastest at 6, and twisting and HotO are 15 and 12.
One use for palm strike is that after using [shadow walk] you have an attack, then you jump straight into twisting fangs or some such.
It's an attack that lets you set up a quick spike, like instead of steady pressure([gold fox strike][wild strike][death blossom] repeatedly), or trying to do a KD chain, you can take it and a couple more attack skills and attack something else quickly, picture 2 assassins with [palm strike], [twisting fangs], and [critical strike] or [death blossom] and another lead skip like [Black spider Strike] or [Gold Phoenix Strike], one does it's twisting combo, the other it's other attack, then they reverse on a target they port to. assisted by the third melee or midliners, they'd get kills, question is would they get them before they died...
It's kind of like what Brawling headbut>steelfang does in pve, maybe it's just me but after I headbutt something the next attack comes very quickly(especially in an ias stance), then I can steelfang something before it gets up and re-charge the chain. I've also been having a bit of fun with [rage of the ntouka], dismember and agonizing chop, with flail and rush and lions comfort available constantly, palm strike is a skill that facilitates quick unloads and target swaps
Edit: and BTW [healing hands] will make NPCs in fort aspenwood or AB damn near invincible...
DarkGanni
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Wetader
I'm not a ranger by profession, but while checking wiki I found 2 skills that are oddly placed.
Quick Shot (ELITE)- shoots an arrow twice as fast. Cost 5 energy, 1 sec activation and 1 sec recharge. Called Shot- shoots an arrow three times faster and can't be blocked. Cost 5 energy, no activation time, 3 sec recharge. I think the normal skill is much over powered than the elite except for 3 sec recharge. Do you guys think this is right? |
What if: Quick Shot (ELITE) - You Shoot an Arrow three times as fast, this attack cannot be blocked. If it misses you gain 1..7 energy. 1 Sec activation time, 3 sec recharge.
Possible improvement? Ideas?
- Ganni
Akolo
quick shot got activation time... still useless though :P
the Puppeteer
just make it shoot 2/3 arrows that move twice as fast and you're set
Crimson Flame
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Wetader
I'm not a ranger by profession, but while checking wiki I found 2 skills that are oddly placed.
Quick Shot (ELITE)- shoots an arrow twice as fast. Cost 5 energy, 1 sec activation and 1 sec recharge. Called Shot- shoots an arrow three times faster and can't be blocked. Cost 5 energy, no activation time, 3 sec recharge. I think the normal skill is much over powered than the elite except for 3 sec recharge. Do you guys think this is right? |
As for [Palm Strike], it's already been pointed out that it's an unblockable, armor-ignoring damage that sets you up for a dual attack. You could run a build something like this:
[build prof=a crit=12+1+1 dagger=12+1+2][palm strike][horns of the ox][falling spider][blades of steel][critical eye][critical agility][critical defenses][optional][/build]
Not saying that's a great build but it's a start. Direct, unblockable attack that counts as an offhand, KD, poison, and then a 2x +60 dual attack.
Tyla
I... think we should start making things die to create more balance before the random buffs come in. PvE-only would be good for me, though.
I'd like to see this skill with this description.
Palm Strike - 5E 0 Cast 30 Recharge - Dagger Mastery
Elite Skill. For 5... 30 seconds, after a normal attack you can use a Dual Attack. If you are not empowered by an Assassin enchantment, this skill ends.
Not sure how it'll turn out, but meh.
I'd like to see this skill with this description.
Palm Strike - 5E 0 Cast 30 Recharge - Dagger Mastery
Elite Skill. For 5... 30 seconds, after a normal attack you can use a Dual Attack. If you are not empowered by an Assassin enchantment, this skill ends.
Not sure how it'll turn out, but meh.
MithranArkanere
In Assassins combos, the real damage is in the Dual Strikes, while the other are susualy more for conditions than for damage.
This skills instatly allows you to go for a Dual Attack. It's not so bad.
But since it's a 'palm' strike, it could knock(push) down enemies under a certain condition. Probably having an effect that increases armor.
This skills instatly allows you to go for a Dual Attack. It's not so bad.
But since it's a 'palm' strike, it could knock(push) down enemies under a certain condition. Probably having an effect that increases armor.
januscht
Quote:
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Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker
[quicksand]
anyone got a use for this? |
SOF
Imo. Should just be the same as before, but with a KD if target foe is not adjacent too any ally's.
Magikarp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tyla
I... think we should start making things die to create more balance before the random buffs come in. PvE-only would be good for me, though.
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on topic:
I would love to see some work done to fix skills like the ones you wanna talk about Moloch. It'd be a shame to lose the "touch" part of "palm strike" though :/.. what about something with cracked armor? like target foe takes X damage and suffers cracked armor and is knocked down, but it has to follow a dual or something.
it'd even be cool if it were like a "dual" palm strike, replacing a dual attack, like, you touch the target foe twice for X damage (like Ursan :P), the first strike causes cracked armor, the second causes deep wound (deep wound on top for balance issues) and it counts as a dual attack
then you'd kinda have an elite Twisting Fangs, which i think would be really sweet. (except unblockable and obviously elite)
Tyla
I mean things that should die. In order to balance you should to tone a few things down before you actually look at things that want buffs. If you have more skills, don't forget that it would eventually lead to build wars too.
Magikarp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tyla
I mean things that should die. In order to balance you should to tone a few things down before you actually look at things that want buffs. If you have more skills, don't forget that it would eventually lead to build wars too.
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draxynnic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
In Assassins combos, the real damage is in the Dual Strikes, while the other are susualy more for conditions than for damage.
This skills instatly allows you to go for a Dual Attack. It's not so bad. But since it's a 'palm' strike, it could knock(push) down enemies under a certain condition. Probably having an effect that increases armor. |
N1ghtstalker
[quick shot] needs to be quicker (activation time)
simple
simple