how comes luck of the draw -5/20% is the most expensive shield inscription when the other ones for example +10 al vs fire or even 20% less blindness duration seem to be MUCH better?
1. -5 happens only 20% of the time whilst those 2 inscp happen ALL the time.
2. even if -5 happened 100% of the time itd still suck in comparison to the other insc.
confusing.
shield inscription.
beserk
Orange Milk
Same reason 15^50 is most common.
Overall it has the most generic uses.
+10ar VS Fire is AWSOME in some places
-5/20% is OK in all places
+15% Dmg While in a Stance is AWSOME in some builds
15^50 is OK in all builds
Overall it has the most generic uses.
+10ar VS Fire is AWSOME in some places
-5/20% is OK in all places
+15% Dmg While in a Stance is AWSOME in some builds
15^50 is OK in all builds
tmakinen
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by beserk
how comes luck of the draw -5/20% is the most expensive shield inscription when the other ones for example +10 al vs fire or even 20% less blindness duration seem to but MUCH better?
|
Improvavel
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Orange Milk
Same reason 15^50 is most common.
Overall it has the most generic uses. +10ar VS Fire is AWSOME in some places -5/20% is OK in all places +15% Dmg While in a Stance is AWSOME in some builds 15^50 is OK in all builds |
But if you use stances or are in places where theres no enchantment removal you can go with those.
The best option is to have loads - but they will cost and consume space.
-5 physical/20% is a waste of space.
HawkofStorms
Because people are stupid. This is the same reason so many people think 20/20 sundering is good. Many people think big numbers just mean better.
Quaker
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by beserk
-5 happens only 20% of the time whilst those 2 inscp happen ALL the time.
|
Quote:
| even if -5 happened 100% of the time itd still suck in comparison to the other insc. |
At any rate, it does depend somewhat upon whether you are doing PvP or PvE and whether or not you want to switch weapons constantly.
For PvP you are going to want a selection of shields with various mods to switch to depending upon the situation.
For PvE the -5/20% (and 15^50) inscriptions are a simpler all-round choice since mobs may consist of various enemies using various damage types. Not to mention that many people who say they are not good don't fully understand the damage calculation.
But, in the long run it just comes down to plain old supply and demand. And, really, if you think the other inscriptions are better, your better off because they are cheaper.
Tenebrae
Depends on class , for a W obviously -2/stance is far better than -5/20% , then +10 AL vs X . Paragons cant do that so they stick to -5/20 and +10 AL vs X .
Stormlord Alex
-5/20% is bad, and people are stupid/have too much cash to waste.
For PvE, -2/stance is alright if you're a good little warrior and use [[flail]/[[drunken master], but I'd likely take +10 vs Fire/Cold if I only had one shield - chances are, the stuff that's most likely to kill me is those big mean ele bosses.
For PvE, -2/stance is alright if you're a good little warrior and use [[flail]/[[drunken master], but I'd likely take +10 vs Fire/Cold if I only had one shield - chances are, the stuff that's most likely to kill me is those big mean ele bosses.
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by tmakinen
Because a very large percentage of the player base is not smart enough to realize that
|
Same answer to most questions like this, people are dumb.
Taisayacho
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa
That's all it is.
Same answer to most questions like this, people are dumb. |
Chthon
For a single all-purpose shield, I'd use it only if -2 stance and -2 enchant aren't viable for my build.
For a situation where I'm swapping shields, I'd never use it at all.
For a situation where I'm swapping shields, I'd never use it at all.
Quaker
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Taisayacho
QFT. I always try to convince people that sundering on daggers/bows whatever and -5/20 is awful, but its so hard to get people to listen.
|
Crimson Flame
I prefer the +AL mod myself. Since a lot of the time you know what sort of damage you're going to be facing, you can take a shield mod to protect you against that. +10 AL might not sound like much, but it means you take 1/8 less damage from that particular source. If you take +10 vs fire and get hit with an 80 damage fireball, you'll only take 70 damage. It's somewhat more conditional than -2/stance, but you can change shields when you know you're going to face a different damage type.
-5/20 has gotten the reputation as being a decent all-around shield mod, and it's really not the worst mod you can have but I don't like depending on luck to reduce damage.
-5/20 has gotten the reputation as being a decent all-around shield mod, and it's really not the worst mod you can have but I don't like depending on luck to reduce damage.
Quaker
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Crimson Flame
+10 AL might not sound like much, but it means you take 1/8 less damage from that particular source. If you take +10 vs fire and get hit with an 80 damage fireball, you'll only take 70 damage.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Quaker
Not to mention that many people .... don't fully understand the damage calculation.
|
Note that the damage reduction from armor is not a simple linear function.
BrettM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Crimson Flame
-5/20 has gotten the reputation as being a decent all-around shield mod, and it's really not the worst mod you can have but I don't like depending on luck to reduce damage.
|
Take an AL +10/Fire into PvE. How many times do you face fire damage? Far less than 20% of the time, except in special cases such as Hell's Precipice. In other places, such as the S. Shivers, you will almost never find a foe dealing fire damage. Only a small percentage of mobs in most areas of any campaign can do fire damage, so you only benefit from that mod a fraction of the time.
Take a -2/Stanced shield into PvE. How much time do you actually spend stanced during a battle? Most stances last only a fraction of their recharge time -- maybe 33% or less -- with a few exceptions. So, you only benefit from that mod a fraction of the time with most builds. If you can only have one shield, then using this mod restricts your ability to experiment with builds that aren't strong on stances.
The -5/20 mod gives the same fractional chance of taking effect all the time, under all circumstances. Can anyone name another mod that is useful a larger percentage of the time in any and all PvE areas, and can't be stripped or derailed by any skill of the enemy? If not, then it certainly seems to deserve a reputation as an all-around shield mod.
Since most people in PvE are only going to give their warrior heroes one shield, then it seems pretty obvious that they need all-around mods for those shields. Lower-level melee players also are served better by all-around mods, since they're still acquiring skills and learning how to make builds. More people need an all-purpose mod than need any particular mod useful only for particular builds and/or areas. Demand is higher, so the price goes up. Simple economics.
dilan155
for warriors you should almost always use a -2 in stance because most IAS are stances, if your going for say an ele caster shield your better off with -2 while enchanted because you should be at least under an attunement, the +10 vs... are good only in small situations. the -5/20 is the average all around one but also used as many players thus it is also the most expensive, you'd be lucky to find one under 8k
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by dilan155
for warriors you should almost always use a -2 in stance because most IAS are stances, if your going for say an ele caster shield your better off with -2 while enchanted because you should be at least under an attunement, the +10 vs... are good only in small situations. the -5/20 is the average all around one but also used as many players thus it is also the most expensive, you'd be lucky to find one under 8k
|
i see people saying +10al's are not as effective because foes in shiverpeaks dont use fire etc. Well the point of these shields is to have one of each and plan ahead to carry one that matches the damage you will be taking.
This can also be taken a step furthar pve wise by using a shiled with 10al vs monster type in areas such as DoA (even the doa green shields have 10al vs demon mods on them).
nidy
Because people naturally think that probability will favor them even when it is statistically against them (ex. lotteries).
Savio
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BrettM
Take an AL +10/Fire into PvE. How many times do you face fire damage?
|
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Spark_of_the_Titans
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Pain_Titan
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Charr_Flameshielder
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Destroyer_of_Lives
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Terrorweb_Dryder
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shiro'ken_Elementalist
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Elemental
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jade_Brotherhood_Mage
etc.
And since we're talking PvE, you know what damage types you'll be facing before you fight.
Quote:
| Take a -2/Stanced shield into PvE. How much time do you actually spend stanced during a battle? |
HawkofStorms
Lol, very good wtfpwn post there Savio.
Oh, and if having to maintain an adrenial skill like flail is just too much effort, since we are talking PvE, just use
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Drunken_Master
For a fire and forget perminant stance.
Oh, and if having to maintain an adrenial skill like flail is just too much effort, since we are talking PvE, just use
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Drunken_Master
For a fire and forget perminant stance.
Evil_Necro
5 is a bigger number than 2, and 3. people like big number, and coupled with 20% there to make it awesome to look at..
people, people...
/sigh
people, people...
/sigh
beserk
wow ive gotten some pretty interesting answers thanks for all the insight everyone.
Victorious
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Evil_Necro
5 is a bigger number than 2, and 3. people like big number, and coupled with 20% there to make it awesome to look at..
people, people... /sigh |
QFT and a half.
Adding to all this is the fact that many green/endgame shields are -5/20, which leads many people to believe that's what they should be using.
As stated previously, it's all conditional/situational. When playing Warrior in any instance it's difficult for me to see why I'd want to reduce physical damage 20% of the time. I'm a friggen' Warrior.
In stance I can see, armor +5 against whatever I understand, even reduced blind isn't out of the question. People are sheep. I rock the 'show me the money'. What more could you want from a shield?
Dante the Warlord
Because people see the -5 and think OMG AWESOME and don;t realize that its only 1. 20% of the time 2. only vs. physical dmg(like a WAR needs that) and 3. think just because its expensive that means everyone should have one, really mods make no diff. so paying 10k for one doesn't mean much, while u could pay 1k for a 19%. In all, mods will give you a slight advantage making about 10%- 20% of the battle outcome, but they are useless in the hands of a non experienced person... and just remember in GW you wanna go with the mod that isn;'t popular so u get an advantage in PvP
BrettM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Savio
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Afflicted_Elementalist
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Spark_of_the_Titans http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Pain_Titan http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Charr_Flameshielder http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Destroyer_of_Lives http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Terrorweb_Dryder http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shiro'ken_Elementalist http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Elemental http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jade_Brotherhood_Mage etc. And since we're talking PvE, you know what damage types you'll be facing before you fight. |
So what if I know what damage types I'll be facing? Let's say I go out in Sunward Marches and make my way from Venta Cemetary to the Inlet. I'm going to face just about every type of damage along the way. Lightning, piercing, slashing, etc. Am I supposed to fill up my bags with shields for Koss and switch them before every group? Heck, most of the groups will do more than one kind of damage, since they're a mix of martials and casters. It's the same in almost every area of PvE, with certain exceptions. So what's your point?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Savio
|
Edit: @HawkofStorms: Mind telling me how to give Drunken Master to a warrior hero? :/
Savio
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BrettM
My point was about statistical probability, and this response is ridiculously off the mark.
|
For a player warrior (which is the topic at hand, who cares what Koss is running) you ideally have one shield for every type, or at least vs fire and slashing. The other types are less common or don't deal as much damage.
Quote:
| Are you saying that every build that doesn't use Flail is no good? |
Flossie
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BrettM
What does a list of fire-using foes tell you about how often you'll be facing them? Is there one or more in every single mob in every area of every campaign? Is there one or more in half the mobs in every area? One third of the mobs? My point was about statistical probability, and this response is ridiculously off the mark. (BTW, some of those you listed do more than one kind of damage. How does an AL10/Fire help when an Afflicted Elementalist throws Lightning Orb?)
So what if I know what damage types I'll be facing? Let's say I go out in Sunward Marches and make my way from Venta Cemetary to the Inlet. I'm going to face just about every type of damage along the way. Lightning, piercing, slashing, etc. Am I supposed to fill up my bags with shields for Koss and switch them before every group? Heck, most of the groups will do more than one kind of damage, since they're a mix of martials and casters. It's the same in almost every area of PvE, with certain exceptions. So what's your point? Are you saying that every build that doesn't use Flail is no good? You're entitled to your opinion. Of course, considering that Flail is only available from a skill trainer in Gates of Torment or from a cap on a boss in Arkjok Ward, then you can hardly expect every warrior to have it. Are we to consider players who don't have every skill in the game as being "stupid"? Edit: @HawkofStorms: Mind telling me how to give Drunken Master to a warrior hero? :/ |
Please note that the RoF missions are just an example, in PvE you generally know the damage type prevalent in an area, so can plan in advance for the main threats you're likely to face.
MagmaRed
People who have played the game for a LONG time, and play a LOT can get by with a variety of shields for different damage types. However, people who are new, or don't play much, just can't afford the inventory space, money, and time to invest in a shield for different damage types.
Personally, I don't care much about the inscription slot on my shields. I don't change them often, and certainly don't swap during battles just for a damage reduction. THIS IS PvE MIND YOU. I actually like the +1 attribute mods for general use, as they can benefit me for skill use. I don't find a need in PvE for more damage reduction on a warrior or paragon.
Personally, I don't care much about the inscription slot on my shields. I don't change them often, and certainly don't swap during battles just for a damage reduction. THIS IS PvE MIND YOU. I actually like the +1 attribute mods for general use, as they can benefit me for skill use. I don't find a need in PvE for more damage reduction on a warrior or paragon.
LifesRestorer
ideally you'd have a shield for each damage type, and Savio has explained perfectly why you should do so.
If you don't have the money/inv space to get a shield of every spec, then you STILL shouldn't be using -5/20%. On average, this will save you 1 damage each hit, while a -2/Stance already saves you -2, and if you don't have a stance on your bar as a warrior... well that's a different issue of fail...
If you don't have the money/inv space to get a shield of every spec, then you STILL shouldn't be using -5/20%. On average, this will save you 1 damage each hit, while a -2/Stance already saves you -2, and if you don't have a stance on your bar as a warrior... well that's a different issue of fail...
Savio
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MagmaRed
However, people who are new, or don't play much, just can't afford the inventory space, money, and time to invest in a shield for different damage types.
|
Quaker
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by LifesRestorer
while a -2/Stance already saves you -2, and if you don't have a stance on your bar as a warrior... well that's a different issue of fail...
|
Also note, as has been pointed out about the -5/20%, the -2/stance is only vs physical damage.
The simple truth about it is - if you want to micro-manage your play-style (and/or PvP), you must carry an assortment of shields for various damage types. However, most of the game is not so difficult that it really matters in the long run. If you like to just PvE wearing your favourite armor and carrying your favourite weapons, then basically any mod will do, because the damage reduction of any mod is very small relative to the total damage received and your total health.
But, some mods are more universal than others, and, given that most warriors end up being the front line "blockers", they tend to suffer a higher percentage of physical damage than other classes, therefore damage reduction vs physical is better in an overall sense for the average warrior - especially, as I said, those who like to PvE using their favourite (and/or only) gear.
Savio
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Quaker
So, you're saying that all those Obsidian Warrior type builds which use Earth Magic enchantments instead of stances "fail"?!
|
BrettM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Flossie
Please note that the RoF missions are just an example, in PvE you generally know the damage type prevalent in an area, so can plan in advance for the main threats you're likely to face.
|
Take a look at, say, the list of monsters for Arkjok Ward. I count 16 types doing physical damage, 5 types doing elemental (of all 4 varieties), and 7 types doing other (holy, chaos, etc.). And this breakdown is probably typical for most PvE areas in the game, in any campaign. Furthermore, the ones dealing physical damage outnumber the others in the average group. E.g., a group might have one scribe backing up a handful of guards and bowmen.
S. Shivers? Take a walk between any two outposts. Say Ice Caves to Camp Rankor or Granite Citadel to the Seer in Mineral Springs. You'll find pockets of Ice Golems and Imps, sure. But you're going to find a lot more Grawl, Giants, Avicara, and Stone Summit, most of which are doing physical damage. I don't see how one could claim that cold damage is the "prevalent" damage type in the area. It's only the most prevalent type of elemental damage, and elementalists are in the minority of enemies overall.
The OP wanted to know why -5/20 was more expensive. The reason for this is supply and demand. It might be best for a player warrior to carry a selection of shields, but most players are not warriors. However, most players do have a need for equipping warrior and paragon heroes, so there is a high demand for single, all-purpose shields. (This makes Koss pretty relevant to the topic, Savio, wouldn't you say?)
Given the topic, then the question is whether -5/20 is actually the best all-purpose mod for such a shield. It may or may not be, but the question certainly isn't answered by calling anyone stupid or insisting that the only proper solution is to carry a pack full of shields.
Savio
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BrettM
The OP wanted to know why -5/20 was more expensive. The reason for this is supply and demand. It might be best for a player warrior to carry a selection of shields, but most players are not warriors. However, most players do have a need for equipping warrior and paragon heroes, so there is a high demand for single, all-purpose shields. (This makes Koss pretty relevant to the topic, Savio, wouldn't you say?)
|
For +10 vs x, you go with whatever's most prevalent - nobody expects it to work against everything. If you don't like the idea of multiple shields, you take -2 while in a stance. People use -5/20 when they're trying to sell a shield or when they don't know any better.
As to the rest: you can switch shields between mobs, or even while you're fighting a mob.