Why not N/Mo in Sabway?
Cathode_Reborn
fireflyry
Moloch Vein
The reasons that people are using N/Rt healers over N/Mo healers are quite obvious.
First of all, three out of four campaigns do not even have Rt healers, N primary or not. The Factions Rt healer bar is actually quite decent apart from the Communing spirit, which was also perfectly fine before the cruel spirit nerf.
Second, just about every monk henchman is hardcore-terrible when it comes to condition removal. (In Factions they had the great idea of outfitting Danika with Blessed Light and no energy management.) This being a very strong suit for Rt healers (and particularily N/Rt), it isn't strange that they have become very popular when H/H'ing.
The problem is that when going with a full heroway group against an area with tough resistance, the N/Rt-exclusive concept does not cut it.
N/Rt does not provide the sort of industrial-strength protection needed against mobs who _wand_ you for 80 damage a hit. Since most people after-all do not play against very challenging content, or only do so with party setups consisting of several human players, this is no issue for them. The entire team setup is a cut-down Jagged Bones pvp build, which was designed to fight level 20 monsters (well, in that case, humans.)
Summarily, while the N/Rt versions can still work fine for the healing/condition-removal part of the team setup, they must be complemented or sometimes even replaced with stronger stuff when doing things that really pose a challenge.
First of all, three out of four campaigns do not even have Rt healers, N primary or not. The Factions Rt healer bar is actually quite decent apart from the Communing spirit, which was also perfectly fine before the cruel spirit nerf.
Second, just about every monk henchman is hardcore-terrible when it comes to condition removal. (In Factions they had the great idea of outfitting Danika with Blessed Light and no energy management.) This being a very strong suit for Rt healers (and particularily N/Rt), it isn't strange that they have become very popular when H/H'ing.
The problem is that when going with a full heroway group against an area with tough resistance, the N/Rt-exclusive concept does not cut it.
N/Rt does not provide the sort of industrial-strength protection needed against mobs who _wand_ you for 80 damage a hit. Since most people after-all do not play against very challenging content, or only do so with party setups consisting of several human players, this is no issue for them. The entire team setup is a cut-down Jagged Bones pvp build, which was designed to fight level 20 monsters (well, in that case, humans.)
Summarily, while the N/Rt versions can still work fine for the healing/condition-removal part of the team setup, they must be complemented or sometimes even replaced with stronger stuff when doing things that really pose a challenge.
impulsion
I run N/Mo with glimmer of light + dwayna's sorrow.
fireflyry
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Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
I usually run a Paragon, N/E and N/Rit setup these days.
I guess the fact remains variation gets little attention here, regardless of justification.Considering the current game state of GW PvE, repeat content as quickly, efficiently and easily as possible, any builds abusing Soul Reaping will garner more attention.
Welcome to Guru I guess.
I still have to side with the N/Rit fans though.My game experience dictates my opinion.N/Mo's just aren't as effective overall and I'm not one who needs my red bar maxed at all times.
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As far as heals per energy cost is concerned, N/Rt is still superior to N/Mo. So I use N/Rt for heals and N/Mo for prots and hex removal.
Quote: Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
One of the points I was making was how bad the repetition is when it comes to what most people run, even though there's plenty of other ways to get HM done, with some being more effective. Honestly, I'm just dissapointed how boring this part of the forum is - I didn't expect Discord/Sabway threads to be created daily with something different only popping up on a very rare occasion. At the same time, I'm also not too surprised. I'm definitely not saying Discord/Sabway are bad, because they're both good (I run Discord on my nec often)....but there's alot more builds out there.
Because anything that is too different would get flamed in guru. I know that from first hand because I was the one that said Vengeance can be useful and SH Ele can be effective in HM. And I was also flamed when I posted a mesmer hero Artificer build with 80+ armor. Despite the flames, I still stand by what I said.
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Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
Tank'n'spank teams are what the majority of pug's use due to ignorance. N/Rt's and Sabway in general being the dominant build among H/H'ers is a pretty similar case.
I have always said MoP+Fiends deals out more damage than most Tank-n-spank builds even though I had to argue this point alone against a guild (*ahem* TAM *ahem*). I had to produce a screenshot with Master of Damage.
In conclusion, it is not easy to come up with new ideas to contradict the status quo in guru.
JoeKnowMo
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Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
The majority of PvE'ers never use what's most effective - they always run what everyone else is. From my personal experience, most people were runnin pure junk before the builds were posted. The majority hasn't got any better since then. The average H/H'er really isn't that different from a typical pug. It's not a surprise that Guru's hero section is dull and repetitive.
People who visit forums aren't your typical PvE'er. The majority of those who use Sabway found it on forums and are open to tweaking it as well as incorporating new ideas into it.
I tried a WoH hybrid N/Mo sometime ago. I wasn't thrilled with the results. They had no trouble with energy, but heroes are awful with protting. When they did land SB on the right target, it was great, but for the most part it's quite random. The N/Mo is a viable build, but it's not superior to the N/Rt. Since I usually play monk, I'd rather handle the prots and let the hero handle healing.
DarkSpirit
Heal Other: 10e, 151 heal at level 12, cannot self target
Originally Posted by -Lotus-
Patient Spirit: 5e, heal for 102 after 2s. Spirit Light (Rit): 5e, 156 heal, 17% sac unless spirit in earshot. Orison of Healing: 5e, 60 heal. Dismiss Condition: 5e, removes 1 condition, heal for 63 if target is enchanted Mend Body and Soul (Rit): 5e, 96 heal, + remove 1 condition for each spirit within earshot. As long as there are spirits within earshot, which can be provided especially if you have 2 or 3 spirits in the team, the N/Rt healing spells heal more for the same energy cost compared to the N/Mo. On the other hand, the monk line has good prots (although only a limited number of them are effectively used on the hero) and hex removal. Quote:
make sense next time. maybe try stating things that are true, or even things that have a possibility to be true.
Making sense seems to be more and more a subjective term nowadays. People here use that alot when it comes to new information that doesn't agree with them. But even if you disagree, please refrain from name calling. I have reported many of your posts.
By the way, it is "arguing" not "arguind". Turbobusa
OK kids time to go to bed, no story tonight.
Get a vent server and discuss that without polluting every thread on the forum, thank you. As for N/mo instead of N/Rt, I don't know, the N/rt has big party wide heals, and there is nothing more to offer that you don't already have on another hero which carries 1-2 utility slots or a healer hench (except in prophecies maybe). Turbobusa
I only used 1 healer and 1 N/Rt, using the healer to get my prots and giving the ones that were missing to midliners.
I VQ all areas. So no it works just fine. I repeat, 1 N/rt, and mhenlo or jamei, or alesia. I managed to do fine by tweaking builds a bit to adapt them. As for calling it terrible, I don't want to get into the arguments you tend to run into, but there are less "dramatic" ways of saying things, it is not a need to try to make the player you're arguing with look completly retarded. Turbobusa
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There is a big performance difference between a N/Rt healer and Mhenlo.
Indeed, I won't deny that. | "there is nothing more to offer" ->I should have added "by going N/Mo" Replacing the N/rt by a N/Mo means you want hex removals or prots. But you lose strong party wide and single target heals to have skills you can usually bring on midliners with a free secondary, and that still work at low spec anyway, that's what I meant.
Painbringer
Condition removal
Low cost high impact heals x3 Great Rez options yes monks work to but rits seem to synergize
Jenn
I think both are fine. The one advantage to having a n/mo is that more /mo spells are faster casting than /rt spells, which can work in your favour. Someone mentioned that /rt spells cost less energy, but with soul reaping powering the energy, that's a non-issue.
I like both, tbh. It just depends what you're doing and what you need. On many occasions the /rt has been a pain in the ass unless you spend more time microing it. -Lotus-
rit skills only require one attribute line which is importan when you are using a secondary profession and cant rune. Monks need to hybrid (don't argue with that) and the attribute spread is going to get pretty thin on a necro primary that dosnt get monk runes.
Martin Firestorm
There's no reason you can't take 1 N/Mo and 2 N/Rits. I do that mainly so I can bring Dwayna's Sorrow.
-Lotus-
DarkSpirit
Why settle for only 1 N/Rt healer when you can have 2? The curse necro doesn't need all the curses to be effective. I double him up as my second healer.
Super Igor
Well somehow N/Rts are better, science cant axplain it yet but nobody likes N/Mos for sure.
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