I am 3+ year on and off player of guildwars and new to these forums. But I have noticed an interesting trend here.
Why do so many people seam to hate players that use builds from PvXwiki?
I know the first answers I will get will range from "Only noobs use PvX" on the rude side to "Copying a build from the internet is not real skill" on the polite side. Knowing that here are my ideas on the subject.
I see there as being two options for newer players to choose a skill set. The first being build you own. The second being use one from PvX. I personaly think that PvX is a great thing. It lets newer players experience more success right away and teaches them about some of the well liked skills in the game. It also helps with groups, after all who would you rather have in your party Patty PvX build or Rick Random skill set? I personaly would prefer Patty.
I want to hear your opinions.
FYI - I use PvX and have become a much better player becuase of it
To PvX or not to PvX
Lyle2000
Tyla
PvX is a great source of builds that work. Most builds that are extremely good are on PvX too. If you have feelings against their efficiency, there is a talk page. (Although I heard the mods on there are pathetic)
You're also not kept to just that build. Variants, or you can simply run something different. It's nothing but a reference to use.
Concerning "copying builds isn't skill", the build doesn't determine players, their player skill does. Some builds are just bad, but some are multi-functional and require some sort of focus to actually get what you need out of them. You can't just expect to copy a build and automatically run it. You need to improve and will do so running the build through profession skill and that build itself.
You're also not kept to just that build. Variants, or you can simply run something different. It's nothing but a reference to use.
Concerning "copying builds isn't skill", the build doesn't determine players, their player skill does. Some builds are just bad, but some are multi-functional and require some sort of focus to actually get what you need out of them. You can't just expect to copy a build and automatically run it. You need to improve and will do so running the build through profession skill and that build itself.
komma
cookie cutter builds are from wiki....is the usual statement made by the anti-wiki. for whatever reasons. jealousy, others are running more successful builds. or the fact that the builds are widely used by a vast majority of the games population, so they want to be different.....even if you dont like using wiki builds, it is still a great source for build foundations for you to tweak on your own. hate it or love it, it is there for us all to take advantage of, so why not? 
Lyle2000
Nice to see that I am not the only one that sees PvX as a a great tool for the community.
From what you see in many other threads that did not seam the case.
From what you see in many other threads that did not seam the case.
-Lotus-
many of the builds on PvX are terrible, most players that create builds there are terrible. and almost all of the ones that vote are even worse. there is no judgment of someone's intelligence or skill taken into their vote. builds here are pretty much always better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle2000
Quote:
FYI - I use PvX and have become a much better player becuase of it
this is a lie.
Rainbow Ftw
PvX is good for getting a grasp of good builds to use in certain areas, however the builds for Hero Battles are almost all incorrect and don't contain the best variants.
In regards to pvx community it's merely a bunch of elitists spreading memes amongst each other and flaming anyone new to the wiki, by all means check out the builds but I wouldn't recommend taking the builds there as "gospel truth" and I wouldn't recommend becoming a member of the wiki.
In regards to pvx community it's merely a bunch of elitists spreading memes amongst each other and flaming anyone new to the wiki, by all means check out the builds but I wouldn't recommend taking the builds there as "gospel truth" and I wouldn't recommend becoming a member of the wiki.
Unreal Havoc
Places like PvX and Guru are both good places to get your feet wet. Both communities have their fair share of elitist assholes, it comes with the territory of online gaming.
BTW Hi Rainbow, long time no see!
BTW Hi Rainbow, long time no see!
Taisayacho
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
This is one of the things I have against pvx. The mods there are the worst. There seems to be some favoritism goin on around there too. Their build voting system is pure junk - a good build can get a bad rating cause some idiots thought it was bad. It can go the other way around too - bad builds getting good scores.
QFT. I'm pretty active on there, but I do notice that, for example, if the admins really like a build, they'll actually remove votes that are unfavorable.
example: http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:P/...ed_PvE_Paragon
Go to "rate," scroll to the bottom.
example: http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:P/...ed_PvE_Paragon
Go to "rate," scroll to the bottom.
Itokaru
Being able to make builds doesn't make you a good player, being skilled makes you a good player. People will try to say that wiki builds are for noobs, but they are also usually the ones that will offer to 1v1 as soon as you state otherwise. When someone is bothering me for using wiki, I just say:
"Just because you're unique does not mean you're useful"
"Just because you're unique does not mean you're useful"
Savio
PvXwiki is great if you have no clue what you're doing, which is why it's suggested to beginners. For those who have experience, PvXwiki is trash because the builds there aren't as good as they could be or are completely wrong. Whether or not PvXwiki is good depends on the context.
That aside, people who say that using already-made builds is bad are scrubs. And PvX, from its voting system to its community, sucks.
That aside, people who say that using already-made builds is bad are scrubs. And PvX, from its voting system to its community, sucks.
upier
I don't PvP enough (or better yet - at a high enough level) to matter what I run.
So for me PvX is like the old Ursan - I know it's there, I don't have an issue with people running (visiting) it but it's not my thing to use it for more then a few curious moments.
I have my own instance so it's all good.
So for me PvX is like the old Ursan - I know it's there, I don't have an issue with people running (visiting) it but it's not my thing to use it for more then a few curious moments.
I have my own instance so it's all good.
Monk Gsb
pvx is bad, it was better when the original wiki had the "builds" section cause it was moderated better.
Spiritz
It seems its not exactly the builds on pvxwiki ppl dislike but the way the actual site is run - thats just from the replies on here.
In general the site just for builds is good - i dont really bother lookin at ratings as i`ll view a build and decide for myself its flaws as well as think of ways to improve.Its good for getting you to think yourself about different builds and team setups as all its builds can be looked at examples.Its also good for chr setup so you can see what runes needed and where to use , i will always check guru and pvx for builds and if a similar build exists id check both.
Lotus - any site that caters for builds will always have good or bad builds , hell this forum can be compared and said to have good and bad builds on it as well as good/bad posts.And i also kno several guru members who are known on guru for builds and other faq`s also post builds on pvxwiki ( Rezdog and sab for example ).At the end of the day its upto the individual what their opinion is of a build/site and we only learn by gettin a build and tryin it ourselves.
In general the site just for builds is good - i dont really bother lookin at ratings as i`ll view a build and decide for myself its flaws as well as think of ways to improve.Its good for getting you to think yourself about different builds and team setups as all its builds can be looked at examples.Its also good for chr setup so you can see what runes needed and where to use , i will always check guru and pvx for builds and if a similar build exists id check both.
Lotus - any site that caters for builds will always have good or bad builds , hell this forum can be compared and said to have good and bad builds on it as well as good/bad posts.And i also kno several guru members who are known on guru for builds and other faq`s also post builds on pvxwiki ( Rezdog and sab for example ).At the end of the day its upto the individual what their opinion is of a build/site and we only learn by gettin a build and tryin it ourselves.
ele pl
Pvxwiki for me just destroyed Guild Wars... I know, it gives new players builds and so on... But as i said, Guild Wars is not the game as it was before pvxwiki. Now everybody on pvp/pve play wiki builds, no matter how bad are they, but they are rated. Pvxwiki created gimmicks and cuttie cooters. Look for example at HA/HB or RA. Every single person runs wiki build
White Lies
I use PvX sometimes... Mostly cuz im to lazy to make new builds or when im stuck, and i need something that has been used for ages and ages before and im pretty sure it works. Even if it is cookie cutter.
Now shoot me guru.
~Lies
Now shoot me guru.
~Lies
The Arching Healer
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Lies
Now shoot me guru.
~Lies Pew pew pew, ur dead!
Tripolityx
Ya you can use PvX to pick up some ideas. But all builds you actually could benefit for your own use are those which you make yourself ^^
My Lipgloss is Cool
I've been playing for a while, and I sort-of use PvX
I find a build with a good concept, and take the crap out of it. I use PvX for inspiration more than the builds. They have some really good concepts on there that are often overlooked because they were poorly built.
When I first started PvPing (Mostly RA/AB with the very rare TA), I got my builds from PvX, because I had no idea what I was doing and, although many builds are not good, the Great-rated builds worked well enough to get me enough experience to get into it.
I find a build with a good concept, and take the crap out of it. I use PvX for inspiration more than the builds. They have some really good concepts on there that are often overlooked because they were poorly built.
When I first started PvPing (Mostly RA/AB with the very rare TA), I got my builds from PvX, because I had no idea what I was doing and, although many builds are not good, the Great-rated builds worked well enough to get me enough experience to get into it.
Lyle2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Lipgloss is Cool
...
When I first started PvPing (Mostly RA/AB with the very rare TA), I got my builds from PvX, because I had no idea what I was doing and, although many builds are not good, the Great-rated builds worked well enough to get me enough experience to get into it. I can't agree with this more. For the first time in any online RPG I am getting excited about PvP.
When I first started PvPing (Mostly RA/AB with the very rare TA), I got my builds from PvX, because I had no idea what I was doing and, although many builds are not good, the Great-rated builds worked well enough to get me enough experience to get into it. I can't agree with this more. For the first time in any online RPG I am getting excited about PvP.
Raul the Rampant
Quote:
Originally Posted by ele pl
Quote: Originally Posted by Lyle2000
Sounds like it increased the base skill level.
I think you meant "Sounds like it increased the impact of the players' base skill level on the outcome of the match." If so I would tend to agree, because that's what everyone seeking more balance wants: the person running the build to be more important than the build itself.
And yes, like so many have already said I, too, think it can be a decent resource for finding a place to start. Certainly many builds on there are terrible, but sooner or later people figure this out and either find a new one or adjust it. People don't continue running something that doesn't work forever... at the very least they find something that's marginally less ineffective.
And yes, like so many have already said I, too, think it can be a decent resource for finding a place to start. Certainly many builds on there are terrible, but sooner or later people figure this out and either find a new one or adjust it. People don't continue running something that doesn't work forever... at the very least they find something that's marginally less ineffective.
360??
glacialphoenix
I don't think it's entirely bad. You don't have to copy and paste PvX builds for it to be remotely useful... sometimes it's a good way of looking at other skill bars and deriving inspiration from them.
Teutonic Paladin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taisayacho
QFT. I'm pretty active on there, but I do notice that, for example, if the admins really like a build, they'll actually remove votes that are unfavorable.
example: http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:P/...ed_PvE_Paragon
Go to "rate," scroll to the bottom. You should probably remove unfavorable votes from the best build in the game.
Everyone who thinks that PvX is the reason for the lack of diversity in builds hasn't been here very long. PvX is a relatively new creation, and people have been running the same builds they seen on obs mode since it was created.
example: http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:P/...ed_PvE_Paragon
Go to "rate," scroll to the bottom. You should probably remove unfavorable votes from the best build in the game.
Everyone who thinks that PvX is the reason for the lack of diversity in builds hasn't been here very long. PvX is a relatively new creation, and people have been running the same builds they seen on obs mode since it was created.
Magikarp
PvX is a great way to get started if you're newer, and here are a few reasons why..
1: a lot of the builds really are mainstream meta builds, or at least very popular making them at least decent.
2: looking through a good bit of the builds, which will be easy because its all categorized so well, will help give you a better understanding of what others may run, or alternatives to what you could run, as well as strategies and tactics for how you would proceed to utilize your character.
3: If you need a build for a specific task, or want something new for an arena, a lot of the time its faster and easier to search there, rather than a fansite or forum.
4: the builds are already there for your choosing. you don't have to run a gauntlet to find them, and theres no huge learning curve to understand their use.
5: no elitist. what i mean by that, is that you can play at your own will, choose at your own will. no one is there to call you names, put down your skill level, or disrupt your good time.
i've been playing for 3 years, and i go to pvx, and i could care less what any elitist here thinks. i get fun looking builds, or even the "trash" or "testing" builds, just for RA/AB fun etc.
oh and another thing, for someone like me who just got 2 new computers, pvx is great for the tons of templates to help you get your builds back :P
1: a lot of the builds really are mainstream meta builds, or at least very popular making them at least decent.
2: looking through a good bit of the builds, which will be easy because its all categorized so well, will help give you a better understanding of what others may run, or alternatives to what you could run, as well as strategies and tactics for how you would proceed to utilize your character.
3: If you need a build for a specific task, or want something new for an arena, a lot of the time its faster and easier to search there, rather than a fansite or forum.
4: the builds are already there for your choosing. you don't have to run a gauntlet to find them, and theres no huge learning curve to understand their use.
5: no elitist. what i mean by that, is that you can play at your own will, choose at your own will. no one is there to call you names, put down your skill level, or disrupt your good time.
i've been playing for 3 years, and i go to pvx, and i could care less what any elitist here thinks. i get fun looking builds, or even the "trash" or "testing" builds, just for RA/AB fun etc.
oh and another thing, for someone like me who just got 2 new computers, pvx is great for the tons of templates to help you get your builds back :P
Lyle2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul the Rampant
... Yes, thats just what I was thinking.
ele pl
Quote:
Age
PvX is good for Heros if you don't know much about that profession on how to play it.I would use it for farming or to get a pvp build.It is best for player to but together thier own bars this way they are learning.Who knows how some of the PvX build work.
It is not best to look on PvX if you are just starting out.
It is not best to look on PvX if you are just starting out.
-Lotus-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutonic Paladin
You should probably remove unfavorable votes from the best build in the game.
the admins remove votes from builds like this even though they clearly have a reason. the wiki build has GFtE, anyone who ahas played an imbagon knows putting any adren skills on your bar other than SY is a terrible idea and wouldn't consider GFtE. this is the sort of thing they do all the time.
moriz
what PvX do well is that it weeds out builds based on their synergy's strength.
anyone can make a build that has synergy by just looking at the skills descriptions. however, how strong that synergy is can only be found by testing, or by comparing it to similar builds.
for example, here's a build template that has some synergy:
crippling slash, gash, rip enchantment
the synergy should be easy to see: rip enchantment will give the sword warrior a way to inflict deep wound without going crippling slash or sever artery. it also allows the warrior to cover a deep wound with bleeding and cripple. the synergy is fairly strong.
however, that synergy is not particularly useful or practical. stopping for 1 second+aftercast on a warrior is simply not practical, and it certainly does nothing about a sword warrior's greatest weakness: a single copy of restore conditions will nullify his pressure easily.
another example would be a hammer warrior with pious assault. now the hammer warrior can dish out a deep wound and +damage without a KD. however, the high energy cost of pious assault makes it impractical for a hammer warrior to use.
PvX is great for the purpose of weeding out those builds that have non-useful and/or impractical synergy, and is also great for a beginner to learn what is good and what is not.
anyone can make a build that has synergy by just looking at the skills descriptions. however, how strong that synergy is can only be found by testing, or by comparing it to similar builds.
for example, here's a build template that has some synergy:
crippling slash, gash, rip enchantment
the synergy should be easy to see: rip enchantment will give the sword warrior a way to inflict deep wound without going crippling slash or sever artery. it also allows the warrior to cover a deep wound with bleeding and cripple. the synergy is fairly strong.
however, that synergy is not particularly useful or practical. stopping for 1 second+aftercast on a warrior is simply not practical, and it certainly does nothing about a sword warrior's greatest weakness: a single copy of restore conditions will nullify his pressure easily.
another example would be a hammer warrior with pious assault. now the hammer warrior can dish out a deep wound and +damage without a KD. however, the high energy cost of pious assault makes it impractical for a hammer warrior to use.
PvX is great for the purpose of weeding out those builds that have non-useful and/or impractical synergy, and is also great for a beginner to learn what is good and what is not.
kai4321
I agree with Magikarp. If you are a newbie and say you just got lvl 20, you don't know the game yet. I mean you know a few skills but I can sure say that for me I didn't know many skills from my proffesion and so I couldn't make it up. Pvx is great because you get builds from it which are mainstream and are solid. Then, when you are more experience, you can change it about and make it better.
gerlin
I find that PvXwiki is a great source of information and a great way to let "newbies" experience GW mechanics and allow them to play without too much frustration not being able to get past a mission.
Although it is true that some builds are bad and that sometimes players even fail with pvxwiki builds.
I , as a somewhat experienced player, use PvX to get inspiration and ideas or tweaks to other builds, i rarely use build exactly but use the basics and throw in some changes to suit my style.
There is one thing about PvXwiki i think should change. They should stop allowing PvP builds. People put lame cookiecutter builds for pvp what allows annoying brats to kill and make fun of pro's who use a homemade build. If you take away this, RA's skill will worsen but the players will improve faster.
Although it is true that some builds are bad and that sometimes players even fail with pvxwiki builds.
I , as a somewhat experienced player, use PvX to get inspiration and ideas or tweaks to other builds, i rarely use build exactly but use the basics and throw in some changes to suit my style.
There is one thing about PvXwiki i think should change. They should stop allowing PvP builds. People put lame cookiecutter builds for pvp what allows annoying brats to kill and make fun of pro's who use a homemade build. If you take away this, RA's skill will worsen but the players will improve faster.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerlin
Although it is true that some builds are bad and that sometimes players even fail with pvxwiki builds.
I , as a somewhat experienced player, use PvX to get inspiration and ideas or tweaks to other builds, i rarely use build exactly but use the basics and throw in some changes to suit my style.
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