Costume Brawl was a great minigame addition, and I've looked forward to seeing it for over a month now, and there's still a month left before Halloween.
Unfortunately, it used skills from the actual professions, which means skill balances have changed the way some of these work, causing some builds to be much more effective (Ranger and Necro received all buffs) while some become obsolete (Dervish, Monk, and Assassin had some pretty tough nerfs). A listing of many of the skill changes since last October is listed here, and the original builds are here.
It would be terrible of ANet not to realize something is wrong with some of the builds and not fix them before Costume Brawl is possibly opened again. It's either necessary to develop different builds, change out skills, or make arena-unique duplicates that have their old functions. Costume Brawl needs to be balanced before it is re-opened.
Balance Costume Brawl
Shayne Hawke
zelgadissan
I'm pretty sure your list is complete now.
I really hope Anet is on the ball on this one because Costume Brawl is easily the best part of Halloween in GW, if not special events entirely. Like you said though, it could be an entirely different game this time around due to the bars and/or the changes made to the bars. PLEASE Anet, make this awesome again!
/signed for balance and reopening.
I really hope Anet is on the ball on this one because Costume Brawl is easily the best part of Halloween in GW, if not special events entirely. Like you said though, it could be an entirely different game this time around due to the bars and/or the changes made to the bars. PLEASE Anet, make this awesome again!
/signed for balance and reopening.
Div
"Balance Guild Wars!"
...
that sounds like something I've heard before...
...
that sounds like something I've heard before...
Tyla
I think some of those builds need a rethink anyway.
The Ranger bar is absolutely optimum. Why don't the other bars share this property?
The Monk bar. Seriously, what were they thinking when they came up with that?
The Necro bar. I only see two fairly decent skills on there. Faintheartedness and Enfeeble.
The Paragon bar. Why does it not have an IAS?
The Warrior bar. Why no Frenzy? It requires skillful play to be effective anyway.
I would go on but I can't be bothered. The reason I say this is because the only bar that is completely optimum is the Ranger one.
I wholeheartedly agree though. Maybe just adjust the bars anyway?
The Ranger bar is absolutely optimum. Why don't the other bars share this property?
The Monk bar. Seriously, what were they thinking when they came up with that?
The Necro bar. I only see two fairly decent skills on there. Faintheartedness and Enfeeble.
The Paragon bar. Why does it not have an IAS?
The Warrior bar. Why no Frenzy? It requires skillful play to be effective anyway.
I would go on but I can't be bothered. The reason I say this is because the only bar that is completely optimum is the Ranger one.
I wholeheartedly agree though. Maybe just adjust the bars anyway?
HawkofStorms
Tyla, the builds aren't supposed to be "perfect" they are supposed to be mildly balanced with each other, which they are.
The monk bars CAN'T be made to be too good, because a good monk build would utterly dominate in that game type.
Anyway, I don't see how this couldn't be done. They just got to make like... costume brawl skills similar to the polymark skills that only work in that area. They should just recreate the skills from last year and "freeze" them in place.
The monk bars CAN'T be made to be too good, because a good monk build would utterly dominate in that game type.
Anyway, I don't see how this couldn't be done. They just got to make like... costume brawl skills similar to the polymark skills that only work in that area. They should just recreate the skills from last year and "freeze" them in place.
Darcy
No special skills needed, just replace the ones that won't work anymore in the given build.
And what's wrong with a smiting monk. Not every monk wants to sit back and press heal occasionally. /joke (in case you missed it)
And what's wrong with a smiting monk. Not every monk wants to sit back and press heal occasionally. /joke (in case you missed it)
Tyla
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Tyla, the builds aren't supposed to be "perfect" they are supposed to be mildly balanced with each other, which they are.
The monk bars CAN'T be made to be too good, because a good monk build would utterly dominate in that game type. |
I understand they should be balanced out with each other though, it's just that one bar is practically a perfect variation whereas the others are pretty ugh. Not to mention Frenzy takes a substantial amount of skill to use depending on both your skill and the enemies skill.
Demonstar
Tyla, the bars are fine. Shush.
Anyway, I will admit I am worried. There have been so many skill balances over the year that costume brawl will suffer if they're using their updated counter parts.
On the other hand, having a fresh set of skills this year might be refreshing.
Anyway, I will admit I am worried. There have been so many skill balances over the year that costume brawl will suffer if they're using their updated counter parts.
On the other hand, having a fresh set of skills this year might be refreshing.
Operative 14
I'd would say they should change the skill bars completely. Not just because of balance changes, but to simply switch up the game so it doesn't get too stale.
Shayne Hawke
I'm interested in hearing the opinions in those who have voted that no change is needed in the arena.
I'd have to agree with Tyla that the Ranger bar is probably the best one for the arena now, considering it's received nothing but buffs since its creation, and it already has the basic framework of builds seen in high-end PvP. I'd say the solution is to improve the bars of other professions by switching out their nerfed skills with stronger skills that are more useful in PvP. If that can't happen, the Ranger build might need to take a hit of some sort.
I'd have to agree with Tyla that the Ranger bar is probably the best one for the arena now, considering it's received nothing but buffs since its creation, and it already has the basic framework of builds seen in high-end PvP. I'd say the solution is to improve the bars of other professions by switching out their nerfed skills with stronger skills that are more useful in PvP. If that can't happen, the Ranger build might need to take a hit of some sort.
MithranArkanere
Of course they will change the builds.
Not doing so would be selseless, they have even changed the rollerbeetle skills.
Not doing so would be selseless, they have even changed the rollerbeetle skills.
MithranArkanere
Of course they will change the builds.
Not doing so would be senseless, they have even changed the rollerbeetle skills.
Not doing so would be senseless, they have even changed the rollerbeetle skills.
Shayne Hawke
Thread res to get more feedback before the monthly update comes.
Snow Bunny
Tyla, the warrior has Tiger's stance.
DarkNecrid
Costume Brawl actually uses different skills than the PvE/PvP mode ones. This is apparent when it first launched the Priest of Balthazar was bugged and let you buy the copies in the Costume Brawl. These copies of the skills would be "frozen in time" in essence, exactly like they were last year.
Winterclaw
Here's hoping cynn will have this bar:
Rodgot's invo
glowing gaze
mind blast
fire attunment
Flash Panties
IMS
glyph of restoration
But yeah, I agree with the OP that some balancing needs to be done.
Rodgot's invo
glowing gaze
mind blast
fire attunment
Flash Panties
IMS
glyph of restoration
But yeah, I agree with the OP that some balancing needs to be done.
pumpkin pie
actually i thought they were just fine. but change or not, i am thinking i might not be around during Holloween again ........
Hugh Manatee
The only real problem I see is with the dervish, they moved Chilling Victory to wind prayers and the build has no points invested in wind. Other then that, as far as "stock" builds go these might be weird but for the arena they're in they're fine.
Demonstar
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Here's hoping cynn will have this bar:
Rodgot's invo glowing gaze mind blast fire attunment Flash Panties IMS glyph of restoration But yeah, I agree with the OP that some balancing needs to be done. |
HawkofStorms
I still like my option best (which is why I haven't voted, since its not a poll option). Just create "costume brawl" skills just like the PvE/PvP split that have the exact same values as the skills had last year. Bam, you never have to worry about buffing/nerfing them again, and it stays "balanced" forever, w/o a.net having to redesign the arena.
(and god, guardian would be overpowered in that play setting).
(and god, guardian would be overpowered in that play setting).
DarkNecrid
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
I still like my option best (which is why I haven't voted, since its not a poll option). Just create "costume brawl" skills just like the PvE/PvP split that have the exact same values as the skills had last year. Bam, you never have to worry about buffing/nerfing them again, and it stays "balanced" forever, w/o a.net having to redesign the arena.
(and god, guardian would be overpowered in that play setting). |
Shayne Hawke
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Costume Brawl actually uses different skills than the PvE/PvP mode ones. This is apparent when it first launched the Priest of Balthazar was bugged and let you buy the copies in the Costume Brawl. These copies of the skills would be "frozen in time" in essence, exactly like they were last year.
|
On the other hand, they may have seen that as a bug, fixed it, and we're right back at square one.
Konig Des Todes
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tyla
I think some of those builds need a rethink anyway.
The Ranger bar is absolutely optimum. Why don't the other bars share this property? The Monk bar. Seriously, what were they thinking when they came up with that? The Necro bar. I only see two fairly decent skills on there. Faintheartedness and Enfeeble. The Paragon bar. Why does it not have an IAS? The Warrior bar. Why no Frenzy? It requires skillful play to be effective anyway. |
Necro Bar... you're kidding right? Enfeeble? Decent? Maybe when fighting wars and dervs... nothing else, especially in that case. Life Siphon, Signet of Lost Souls, Reaper's Mark, and Strip Enchantments are all good for health and energy. No need for your "good skills" or barbed signet. (and yes, there are better skills then Reapers' Mark, but it's not suppose to have the most op builds)
Paragons don't need IAS, they don't always have to bring it either, I assume this was done to prove that point.
Warrior. Frenzy was not put in because idiots would die too fast, and with Tiger's Stance, is there really a need? Sure, get an IAS longer, but you'd have to pay more attention.
overall, the old versions were made for the not so good PvPers and monk (i assume) as a joke.
Rit, Ranger, Ele, and Mesmer builds all seems good, even for now. (That is, overall, not each individual skill).
But they could use some new builds (perhaps let us make our own, but with a limited set of skills, it'll bring more challenge because you cannot predict what exactly the other team has with their professions). Or, make the male/female builds different... idk, just some thoughts. (would like to see Talon instead of Lukas and Pyre instead of Aiden as well, new costumes plz!)
DarkNecrid
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
If that turns out to be the case, then maybe the arena doesn't need touched at all.
On the other hand, they may have seen that as a bug, fixed it, and we're right back at square one. |
I don't follow!
It was a bug, the Costume Brawl specific skills were showing up in the Priest of Balthazar because some intern forgot to tag them to not show up there, so it was a bug, and they did fix it (for the Costume Brawl skills to not show up at the PoB, just like Ursan skills, Wurm skills, Roller Beetle skills, etc, do not.)..
There's no right back at square one, the Costume Brawl skills were never removed (still in the .dat), they were just tagged to not show up in the PoB. (although it was fun having 2 of the same skill on your bar legitly as a warr.)
Martin Alvito
The rebalances in the last year should make less of a difference than you might think.
The Monk bar is better than you think it is, given good play.
The Ranger bar was strong then. The Pin Down buff is somewhat threatening. The Antidote Signet change isn't a huge deal.
The Chilling Victory nerf is a problem.
The Sin bar was bad then. Too many Eles with Steam, and Sig Malice is only good if you have another character applying conditions handy.
The classes were imba then; a large enough pack of Eles will still just own all. Except maybe a pack of Dervs or a shutdown pack. (You run from a single Derv until form drops, and you hammer a single Ranger or Mesmer into the ground.)
Balancing Costume Brawl would imply making melee playable. This seems unlikely. Until that happens, expect to see more of last year's environment: tons of E's and R's, with the odd Mo, Me and D. The W and the A are just bad because conditions > them. The P is pretty blah, the Rt is solid on defense but bad at capping new shrines, and the N is playable but dominated by the Me's flexibility.
The Monk bar is better than you think it is, given good play.
The Ranger bar was strong then. The Pin Down buff is somewhat threatening. The Antidote Signet change isn't a huge deal.
The Chilling Victory nerf is a problem.
The Sin bar was bad then. Too many Eles with Steam, and Sig Malice is only good if you have another character applying conditions handy.
The classes were imba then; a large enough pack of Eles will still just own all. Except maybe a pack of Dervs or a shutdown pack. (You run from a single Derv until form drops, and you hammer a single Ranger or Mesmer into the ground.)
Balancing Costume Brawl would imply making melee playable. This seems unlikely. Until that happens, expect to see more of last year's environment: tons of E's and R's, with the odd Mo, Me and D. The W and the A are just bad because conditions > them. The P is pretty blah, the Rt is solid on defense but bad at capping new shrines, and the N is playable but dominated by the Me's flexibility.
HawkofStorms
Sin bar was good. The ONLY thing that could beat it was the eles, or a warrior who is able to stack condtions on you faster then you could remove them with sig of malice.
Actually, there was a LOT of rock-paper-scissors game play that made it fun. That, and all the noobs playing good (for the most part) bars taught a lot of people about PvP.
Actually, there was a LOT of rock-paper-scissors game play that made it fun. That, and all the noobs playing good (for the most part) bars taught a lot of people about PvP.
Tyla
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
The Monk bar is better than you think it is, given good play.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Azazel
Necro Bar... you're kidding right? Enfeeble? Decent? Maybe when fighting wars and dervs... nothing else, especially in that case.
|
Quote:
| Life Siphon, Signet of Lost Souls, Reaper's Mark, and Strip Enchantments are all good for health and energy. No need for your "good skills" or barbed signet. (and yes, there are better skills then Reapers' Mark, but it's not suppose to have the most op builds) |
Quote:
| Warrior. Frenzy was not put in because idiots would die too fast, and with Tiger's Stance, is there really a need? Sure, get an IAS longer, but you'd have to pay more attention. |
Frenzy takes quite a bit of battlefield awareness to opperate properly. I would say there's lack of maintainable IMS too but meh.
I still stand by my point of the Ranger's bar being the top one.
pumpkin pie
this is a festival game lol you really think theres "balance" needed?
grind, balance, nerf are over used :P
grind, balance, nerf are over used :P
Tyla
That's just like saying "This Dervish deals 1, 000, 000 damage but this Warrior deals 200 damage on an attack chain. Let's leave it alone!"
DarkNecrid
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
this is a festival game lol you really think theres "balance" needed?
grind, balance, nerf are over used :P |
HawkofStorms
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tyla
Yes, and a Mending/Healing Breeze W/Mo is good too. Smite priority conditions or hexes off someone with Healing Breeze, Signet of Devotion and Divine Favour bonus. Divine Intervention is almost worse than Healing Breeze.
Oh my god, you are right what was I thinking?! Ofcourse they are, that's why they are called anti-melee skills. Strip Enchantment is just basic enchantment removal. I won't bother not taking enchantment removal on a Necro anyway. Regeneration isn't going to save you, Reaper's Mark only works on enemy deaths and only does degeneration, which a Ranger does better. Life Siphon I won't even comment on. That's my point? Frenzy takes quite a bit of battlefield awareness to opperate properly. I would say there's lack of maintainable IMS too but meh. I still stand by my point of the Ranger's bar being the top one. |
Look, you are talking a LOT of theory craft, but it is very obvious that you didn't actually play costume brawl last year (and if you did, not a lot). In action, the team composition is fair, no matter what professions load in (which is kinda the point, they don't want team with monks to win).
Guardian would be RIDICULOUSLY overpowered as it would destroy all the physicals usefulness and recharge faster then the limited enchantment removal in the arena. The monk bar isn't "good." Its not supposed to be "good" but a good monk bar played correctly is overpowered in the sense that it would drag these fights out too much.
I'm just not going to respond to you again if you insist on posting about this areas "balance" since you clearly didn't play it.
Tyla
Guardian comes once every 4 seconds, and there is something called "target switching" anyway. How do you expect pressure to be defended against if all that can be done is the pressure being Healing Breezed through?
DarkNecrid
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tyla
Guardian comes once every 4 seconds, and there is something called "target switching" anyway. How do you expect pressure to be defended against if all that can be done is the pressure being Healing Breezed through?
|
They are crap out of necessity of the format.
Demonstar
All you people who are complaining. I mean, you know, they could have not added Costume Brawls at all. It was perfectly balanced, whether you all choose to believe it or not.
Darcy
@Demonstar - The problem is that the skills used on the bars last year have been changed in skill updates. This has left last year's bars in bad shape for players' use this year.
We all enjoyed the Costume Brawl and the OP would like to make sure it is available again this year; not canceled due to last minute discovery of skill bar problems.
We all enjoyed the Costume Brawl and the OP would like to make sure it is available again this year; not canceled due to last minute discovery of skill bar problems.
DarkNecrid
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Demonstar
All you people who are complaining. I mean, you know, they could have not added Costume Brawls at all. It was perfectly balanced, whether you all choose to believe it or not.
|
EDIT:
@Darcy plx read my previous posts, there isn't any problems because they already made seperate Costume Brawl skills.
Operative 14
Another thing they could do would be to give you a 'deck' of 15 skills per profession, and you can base your build around a combination of those. Sort of like what they do with the cards at the conventions.
DarkNecrid
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Operative 14
Another thing they could do would be to give you a 'deck' of 15 skills per profession, and you can base your build around a combination of those. Sort of like what they do with the cards at the conventions.
|
MithranArkanere
It's not "sealed deck". It's "closed hand".
Operative 14
Twas just a small suggestion.