Let's face it. Some GW skills have just been nerfed and forgotten, but probably the most noticeable of these is the Avatar of Grenth.
I don't want to rant, so I'll get to the point.
I think AoG should be split for PvE and PvP, BUT viable in both.
For example, instead of making AoG unblockable against enchanted foes, make it unblockable against Hexed foes in PvP.
Pros: Makes sense. Grenth is the god of death, so hexes kinda seem like his forte. Not too unbalanced. Sure hexes are meta, but dervs have very few hexes, so they would have to reach into their secondary or have a heavy hex team.
Cons: Possibly too unbalanced. I'll face it, it probably could be exploited.
And what about PvE?
All the other forms have some type of either health, energy, or armor gain and some type of +dmg, condition or hex removal, or IMS, so give AoG something similar.
Maybe something like, every time you hit with an attack skill you sacrifice 2% of your max health, but hit for +10 cold dmg. Make sense?
and
Every time an enemy dies nearby, you are healed for 10 health. Idk about that one, but I can't think of something else in Grenth's characteristics.
Either way, please Anet, at least fix it so it actually does what it says (AoG doesn't do cold dmg, like it claims to).
Avatar of Grenth
Karate Jesus
Axel Zinfandel
Technically speaking, AoG would be more logical vs enchanted foes. Unblockable vs Enchanted foes is pretty much like smiting the good people :P
As for PvE I sign whole heartedly, as well as a change to avatar of Balthazar.
As for PvE I sign whole heartedly, as well as a change to avatar of Balthazar.
Luminarus
Unblockable is a similar idea to + damage...
Also I think its fine as it is, most blockability comes from enchants, bar a couple of war stances.
The reason it isnt used is because avatars need to be OP to be worth it due to 50% upkeep. Well atleast thats my opinion
Also I think its fine as it is, most blockability comes from enchants, bar a couple of war stances.
The reason it isnt used is because avatars need to be OP to be worth it due to 50% upkeep. Well atleast thats my opinion
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Luminarus
Unblockable is a similar idea to + damage...
Also I think its fine as it is, most blockability comes from enchants, bar a couple of war stances. The reason it isnt used is because avatars need to be OP to be worth it due to 50% upkeep. Well atleast thats my opinion |
Also, AoG is still terrible because it doesn't even do cold dmg. Even if it did cold dmg and you could go D/E with conjure frost you might think you'd kick some monk's ass, but [Disciplined Stance] is meta and so is [Shield Bash]. So they'll block you anyway.
I just hate it when an elite skill relies on others to do it's job. Even [Fox's Promise] doesn't do that. Unblockable wh/Hexed makes more sense to me.
I must be the only one still a little pissed off that AoG is useless huh?
Mordiego
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
I must be the only one still a little pissed off that AoG is useless huh?
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Most ppl consider AoG pretty good and thus not requireing any changes... heck... it's the best looking Avatar too.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Mordiego
I guess so...
Most ppl consider AoG pretty good and thus not requireing any changes... heck... it's the best looking Avatar too. |
Also....it still doesn't do cold damage.
Deadshot Seven
....Wastrels Collapse.
That is all.
(Although they need to fix shatter enchantment...does 100 damage even when you don't have an enchantment on you)
That is all.
(Although they need to fix shatter enchantment...does 100 damage even when you don't have an enchantment on you)
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
I must be the only one still a little pissed off that AoG is useless huh?
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Idk which one of the two it got nerfed for, but it wasn't for both, that I know.
I think that it should be reverted back to it's old form for one, and the current form kept for the one that it got changed for.
The reason why I must go against your hex suggestion is this:
Each Avatar form specializes in something, usually countering something and gaining something.
Balthazar:
Gain: Armor and IMS
Counter: Undead
Dwayna:
Gain: Healing
Counter: Hexes
Melandru:
Gain: Max Health + Earth Damage
Counter: Conditions
Lyssa:
Gain: Energy
Counter: Casting
Grenth:
Gain: Cold Damage
Counter: Enchantments
Hexes already have an avatar to counter. Grenth doesn't counter Enchantments well enough, imo, with how it is, and it has far from a good gain. Avatar of Grenth is by far the least powerful Avatar, however it shares the longest duration *along with Balthazar and Lyssa*.
Avatar of Grenth is in need of a buff, and the bug of no cold damage fixed.
As for your second suggestion (the one for PvE) it doesn't deal with enchantments and sacing life? wth? It would be more like grenth to steal life.
Turbobusa
I like the PvP version a lot more than the current one.
As for dwayna already having an effect on hexes, it is not the same at all. Dwayna counters hexes cast on you, grenth has an effect on foes hexed. One is defensive, the other offensive.
If it were to stay with an enchantment clause, at least make it have an effect if you are enchanted, atm it's pure luck.
As for dwayna already having an effect on hexes, it is not the same at all. Dwayna counters hexes cast on you, grenth has an effect on foes hexed. One is defensive, the other offensive.
If it were to stay with an enchantment clause, at least make it have an effect if you are enchanted, atm it's pure luck.
MithranArkanere
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Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin
[...]
Balthazar: Gain: Holy damage, +Movement Sped. Counter: Direct damage [...] |
The gain is holy damage, great against partial armor bonuses (vs elemental, vs fire, vs piercing, etc), since there are no skills that give extra armor vs Holy, and holy is not elemental nor physical.
What is true is that:
- Balthazar, Melandru and Grenth change damage.
- Balthazar, Melandru do also something else.
The thing is... "Unblockable vs Enchanted foes + Cold damage" compares to the rest of the Forms...?
Unblockable is nice... but there are more skills other that Enchantments.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
The thing is... "Unblockable vs Enchanted foes + Cold damage" compares to the rest of the Forms...?
Unblockable is nice... but there are more skills other that Enchantments. |
Comparatively, he just doesn't stack up to the other avatars, which is unfair. End of story.
Konig Des Todes
The other day, I got a different idea for Grenth. Although it avoids the concept of Enchantments all together, I think it can work for a rebalance.
Does cold damage and steals life. Although it is similar to Dwayna in that it heals you, it also is different in that it gives more damage to your opponent.
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Originally Posted by myself
[Avatar of Grenth]:
PvE Version: 15e, 2s, 30r (10...74...90 seconds.) Your attacks deal cold damage and steal 0...5..10 life. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. PvP Version: 20e, 2s, 30r (10...74...90 seconds.) Your attacks deal cold damage and steal 0...3...5 life per successful hit with an attack skill. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. |
Karate Jesus
Yea, I've seen something like that posted before by several people. I was just trying to go with something unblockable since that's what they've done with it already.
Either way, something needs to change.
Either way, something needs to change.
Tyla
I'd rather see it kept the same in PvP and changed in PvE. (I'd like to see the same done to Avatar of Balthazar too. It looks cool, but its effect just plain sucks and is achievable by non-elite means.)
For a PvE effect:
For 10...70 seconds, your attacks deal cold damage. When you use an attack skill steal 1...30 life and remove one enchantment.
Iunno, something fun to toy with I suppose. Looks kinda imba too but meh, I really can't be arsed thinking it over.
For a PvE effect:
For 10...70 seconds, your attacks deal cold damage. When you use an attack skill steal 1...30 life and remove one enchantment.
Iunno, something fun to toy with I suppose. Looks kinda imba too but meh, I really can't be arsed thinking it over.
Konig Des Todes
I would say reduce the time to the old Grenth standard for your suggestion Tyla, but with Eternal Aura, it won't matter.
Reduce the life steal to my setting (1...5...10 *attributes:0...12...15*) and it would be fine I think. At least a lot less imba.
Oh, and you forgot the "Disabled for 120 seconds."
Reduce the life steal to my setting (1...5...10 *attributes:0...12...15*) and it would be fine I think. At least a lot less imba.
Oh, and you forgot the "Disabled for 120 seconds."
Joe Fierce
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Originally Posted by Tyla
I'd rather see it kept the same in PvP and changed in PvE. (I'd like to see the same done to Avatar of Balthazar too. It looks cool, but its effect just plain sucks and is achievable by non-elite means.)
For a PvE effect: For 10...70 seconds, your attacks deal cold damage. When you use an attack skill steal 1...30 life and remove one enchantment. Iunno, something fun to toy with I suppose. Looks kinda imba too but meh, I really can't be arsed thinking it over. |
honestly, the sad thing is, aside from the ol melandru, the avatars are shite compared to the other elites in the class, which is why they are overlooked.
Konig Des Todes
I don't know what you're talking about, I only use the avatars. But that may be because I just like changing shapes... :3
Or... it could be because I hardly play my dervish and don't care enough on him to make non-avatar builds.
Or... it could be because I hardly play my dervish and don't care enough on him to make non-avatar builds.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin
Idk which one of the two it got nerfed for, but it wasn't for both, that I know.
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A PvE-only buff would be fine, though.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Avarre
It was nerfed for being one of the most imbalanced and game-breaking skills in all of organized PvP. You know there's a problem when teams call AoG with 'godmode going up on player X!'
A PvE-only buff would be fine, though. |
All I'm saying is that it's time.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
All I'm saying is that it's time.
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Dubby
Currently, this elite is:
"For 10...74 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, and your attacks deal cold damage. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds."
However the cold damage is not actually present - likely a bug. Either way however, the skill is almost useless in PvE. So, here are several selections of ideas on how to improve this skill in a simple manner.
#1 <20e/2c/30r>
"For 10...62 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, your attacks deal cold damage, and anytime you slay a non-spirit foe the Avatar of Grenth releases a chilling wave which deals 10...34 cold damage to all nearby foes and you lose 3...1 energy. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds."
#2 <15e/2c/30r>
"For 10...74 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, your attacks deal cold damage, and your attack skills deal an additional 5...17 cold damage to the targeted foe. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds."
#3 <25e/2c/30r>
"For 10...74 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, and your attacks deal cold damage. If an attack skill you use strikes a foe casting an enchantment spell, that spell is disabled for 1...6 seconds and you lose 5 energy. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds." /edit altered secondary effect -tai's right
#4 <20e/2c/30r>
"For 10...74 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, and your attacks deal cold damage. If a foe strikes you with a melee attack and has less health than you, that foe takes 3...15 cold damage. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds."
#5 <15e/2c/30r>
"For 10...74 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, and your attacks deal cold damage. While your health is below 50% your attacks also steal up to 9...17 health if successful. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds."
"For 10...74 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, and your attacks deal cold damage. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds."
However the cold damage is not actually present - likely a bug. Either way however, the skill is almost useless in PvE. So, here are several selections of ideas on how to improve this skill in a simple manner.
#1 <20e/2c/30r>
"For 10...62 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, your attacks deal cold damage, and anytime you slay a non-spirit foe the Avatar of Grenth releases a chilling wave which deals 10...34 cold damage to all nearby foes and you lose 3...1 energy. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds."
#2 <15e/2c/30r>
"For 10...74 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, your attacks deal cold damage, and your attack skills deal an additional 5...17 cold damage to the targeted foe. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds."
#3 <25e/2c/30r>
"For 10...74 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, and your attacks deal cold damage. If an attack skill you use strikes a foe casting an enchantment spell, that spell is disabled for 1...6 seconds and you lose 5 energy. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds." /edit altered secondary effect -tai's right
#4 <20e/2c/30r>
"For 10...74 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, and your attacks deal cold damage. If a foe strikes you with a melee attack and has less health than you, that foe takes 3...15 cold damage. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds."
#5 <15e/2c/30r>
"For 10...74 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, and your attacks deal cold damage. While your health is below 50% your attacks also steal up to 9...17 health if successful. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds."
Taisayacho
Option #3 is very overpowered.
Dubby
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Originally Posted by Taisayacho
Option #3 is very overpowered.
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TrippieHippie89
TBH a-net is making far too many un-unsed elites completely broken (i.e Hidden Caltrops) i think right now before even CONSIDERING making new problems maybe, just maybe fix some of the existing ones
Mortal Amongst Mere Gods
Went for option 5. Seemed most fitting for Grenth, and not too imba in PvE.
Expherious
#4 is the most overpowered and has the most farming capability. surv/vig set / vital boon?
constant +hp means they take constant damage
(Of course lets not forget Eternal Aura)
constant +hp means they take constant damage
(Of course lets not forget Eternal Aura)
Bowstring Badass
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Originally Posted by Taisayacho
Option #3 is very overpowered.
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Hailey Anne
/notsigned
since there is only the option of your 5 choices which are all bad.
since there is only the option of your 5 choices which are all bad.
Rak Orgon of Beowulf
option 2+ conjure frost would be leet...
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by Dubby
I didn't notice your thread, as I didn't see anything mentioning the word grenth or avatar. However I do somewhat disagree with your ideas, as they do not follow the idealogy behind Grenth. Also, I am not sure if a Poll'd thread can be merged with a non-poll'd one. *shrug*
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Anyways, time to read through your suggestions, probably won't vote.
Edit: Read them, don't like any. Too many additions, abilities, and conditions to be met, just remove the "unblockable to enchanted foes" and put something new there. Like make it life stealing like my previous post on page one. Or for PvE, revert to how it was.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by TrippieHippie89
TBH a-net is making far too many un-unsed elites completely broken (i.e Hidden Caltrops) i think right now before even CONSIDERING making new problems maybe, just maybe fix some of the existing ones
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jaximus
how about something like a mix of nightmare weapon and an avatar
25e/2c/30r
For 10...74 seconds, your attack skills deal 10..42 less damage but steal 10..42 health. You gain only 66% benefit from healing. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.
25e/2c/30r
For 10...74 seconds, your attack skills deal 10..42 less damage but steal 10..42 health. You gain only 66% benefit from healing. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.
MithranArkanere
Avatars have no downsides.
Elite Form. For 10...74...90 seconds, you cannot be blocked, and your attacks deal cold damage and steal 3..13..16 Health from Enchanted foes. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.
That sounds more like Grenth to me.
Elite Form. For 10...74...90 seconds, you cannot be blocked, and your attacks deal cold damage and steal 3..13..16 Health from Enchanted foes. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.
That sounds more like Grenth to me.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Avatars have no downsides.
Elite Form. For 10...74...90 seconds, you cannot be blocked, and your attacks deal cold damage and steal 3..13..16 Health from Enchanted foes. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. That sounds more like Grenth to me. |