To solve the longstanding issue that Nuking is terrible, without unbalancing Elementalists and other ranged DPSers altogether, here's an idea. I don't know how balanced this will be and have not given much thought to the numbers, just the general concept.
Move Frenzy to a universal skill ala Res Signet (i.e. every class can use it).
Change Frenzy to: 5 energy, 4 second recharge, stance. For 8 seconds, you attack 33% faster and cast spells 50% faster. While in this stance you take double damage.
Intended result is that Elementalists get to output some spike damage on their own, at the same cost as Warriors.
Possible problems -
Mesmers become useless since you can now duplicate Fast Casting with Frenzy, but Frenzy is still a stance and will require a cancel, taking up two slots on your skill bar whereas a Mesmer can just sink points into Fast Casting.
Caster spike becomes too dangerous when there're enough Elementalists around. A possible problem, although I'm hoping the double damage on AL60 targets, as well as the 1-second cast on most nukes under Frenzy (still interruptable) will at least compensate.
Lack of a cancel stance in builds would force the casters' secondary profession. A possible fix to this would be to move a cancel stance - I'm thinking Sprint or Dash - to be universal too like Frenzy.
Thoughts and comments?
Frenzy for casters
Jeydra
McMullen
50% faster would be stupidly overpowered. Elites such as stolen speed would become near useless (not that it's great anyway) and as you said before, fast casting would be near useless too.
Not too keen on the idea, sorry.
Also, nukers have Glyph of Sacrafice if they really want to nuke things quick.
Not too keen on the idea, sorry.
Also, nukers have Glyph of Sacrafice if they really want to nuke things quick.
Lyssa Apate
No, tyvm.
<Would not like to lose utility for faster casting + cancel stance.
<Would not like to lose utility for faster casting + cancel stance.
Holly Herro
I think a universal frenzy is a good idea, but this may be overpowered towards casters, and this would make the assassin spikes very hard to protect against in any kind of battle.
Faure
If you wanna fast cast nuking, take a fast cast nuke build at primary.
N1ghtstalker
that sounds like mindbender
and that's quite powerful
imagine in PvP, a monk with 50% faster casting, his WoH's will be flying!
/notsigned
play mesmer with signet of illussions if you wanna cast fast
and ele's still nuke like hell
no further comment needed
mind blast + rodgort's invoc = pain
and that's quite powerful
imagine in PvP, a monk with 50% faster casting, his WoH's will be flying!
/notsigned
play mesmer with signet of illussions if you wanna cast fast
and ele's still nuke like hell
no further comment needed
mind blast + rodgort's invoc = pain
Hyper.nl
50% faster casting is overpowered. Period.
A 33 faster 'anything' could be nice in the form of some bullet time related feature, like you have in the Max Payne games. This includes a limited use of it to prevent players to use it all the time. It might need to be PvE only as well.
A 33 faster 'anything' could be nice in the form of some bullet time related feature, like you have in the Max Payne games. This includes a limited use of it to prevent players to use it all the time. It might need to be PvE only as well.
MagmaRed
Everyone throw out your 40/40 weapon sets.
Numerous skills, most being PvE only, become useless.
There is a reason spells have a particular casting time. Changing that cast time by any amount results in balance issues. Skills like Glyph of Sacrifice and Stolen Speed have already been addressed for balance. We don't need more power creep.
Numerous skills, most being PvE only, become useless.
There is a reason spells have a particular casting time. Changing that cast time by any amount results in balance issues. Skills like Glyph of Sacrifice and Stolen Speed have already been addressed for balance. We don't need more power creep.
MithranArkanere
Skill activation speed is 'more expensive' than attacking speed, like bleeding and poison are easier to apply than dazing or blindness.
If a skill like Frenzy, with no attribute requirements and low cost, had to add spell activation speed, it could not be more than 10%.
If a skill like Frenzy, with no attribute requirements and low cost, had to add spell activation speed, it could not be more than 10%.
foozdood
Something like this would be overpowered... but how bout a new skill (in energy storage perhaps) that is something like:
Frenzied casting
Stance
5E
Recharge 10
For (10..25) seconds you spells cast and recharge (10..25)% faster but cost twice as much energy.
Would still allow for some quick nuking, but wouldn't be sustainable for ny large length of time.
Frenzied casting
Stance
5E
Recharge 10
For (10..25) seconds you spells cast and recharge (10..25)% faster but cost twice as much energy.
Would still allow for some quick nuking, but wouldn't be sustainable for ny large length of time.
wind fire and ice
No way any of this could ever work,only possible option would be 10% faster casting and recharge,5 sec duration 10sec recharge.
In the end,bad idea.
In the end,bad idea.
Dre
mindbender, anyone?
turbo234
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dre
mindbender, anyone?
|
lets not complain about the casting times of elementialists. theres a reason most of the skills take long to cast. they give more damage. i think fire eles should stick to pve anyway. and if your in pve then use mindbender problem solved.
Da Rk Bl Ad E
Frenzy is balanced for melee classes as they aren't the primary target in most situations....whereas casters are, see what I'm getting at?
If not you're bad.
4040 set > Double damage
/notsigned you didn't think this through.
If not you're bad.
4040 set > Double damage
/notsigned you didn't think this through.
Snow Bunny
I'm pretty sure that 40/40 sets take care of fast casting.
I don't want warriors hitting for 300+ because I was in frenzy.
I don't want warriors hitting for 300+ because I was in frenzy.
Winterclaw
Why muck with casting speed when it is the recharge time that is the big limiter in getting lots of firepower off. If it reduced recharge time on spells by 25%, that would make it more interesting.
snaek
encourages bad play
imo eles already have potential to deal dmg faster due to attacking at range
imo eles already have potential to deal dmg faster due to attacking at range
shru
Too powerful. Too much possibility for abuse. Removes the need for weapon swapping. There are already solutions to long cast times in PvE, and the type of nuking this skill would encourage would not be beneficial to PvP. Blah Blah Blah... etc...
Dreamwar
No. Simply too overpowered. And that way casters would be way overpowered, imagine, a mesmer with fast casting AND frenzy?!
Shadow-Hunter
Nah, imagen some Ele trying to Frenzy cast some meteor showers in AB or something. And alone comes a mesmer doing nearly 300 damage with his Power spike.
Or imagen a sin suddenly comming out of the shadows, with an unsuspecting strike crit on a 60 AL double damage target <3
Man that would be hillarious :P
Or imagen a sin suddenly comming out of the shadows, with an unsuspecting strike crit on a 60 AL double damage target <3
Man that would be hillarious :P
Jenn
I will concede that the idea almost makes sense, but I seriously fear its use. The last thing I want is some dumb squishy in a pug bringing frenzy. It would make me cry so hard, because I just KNOW that someone would echo MS in the middle of a HM dungeon where mobs are pounding on that person.
Not to mention casters can bring increased spell casting skills already, maybe not 50%, but that's a risk I'm willing to take
/notsignededed
Not to mention casters can bring increased spell casting skills already, maybe not 50%, but that's a risk I'm willing to take
/notsignededed
germanturkey
not signed. i use mindbender. and i agree with the person who said "33% faster recharge" that would be pretty cool.
Bowstring Badass
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
I'm pretty sure that 40/40 sets take care of fast casting.
I don't want warriors hitting for 300+ because I was in frenzy. |
I would like to hit for +300 dmg.
Bad idea is bad anyway.
Jeydra
Just want to elaborate on some things:
On 40/40 sets - these are great, but not reliable. You cannot rely on them to give you spike output; to spike effectively using them you need two or more consecutive quartercasts, which is certainly rare, and not to mention that you can't get quartercasts at will.
On 50% faster WoHs, fast cast + Frenzy Mesmers and similar - have to remember than Frenzy is a stance that doubles the damage you take, especially since casters have 60 armor. You risk taking 200+ damage from a single attack while in the stance and have to be ready to cancel. If this change is implemented I highly doubt there will be any Monks brave enough to bring Frenzy. If anyone can name a certain imbalance resulting from this change please point it out.
On 'this skill is bad because casters are primary targets' and similar - well if this change is implemented there's nothing forcing a caster to bring it. If a caster doesn't want to give up his utility skills then he simply unequips Frenzy, Bit like Supportive Spirit is a bad skill but nobody's asking Monks to bring it.
On Elementalists deal a lot of damage already - there's no question that Elementalist damage is bad outside of PvE and possibly HA, and physicals deal a lot more damage. Even with this change Elementalists still get no Deep Wound, although the ability to switch targets easily would probably promote Elementalist damage.
On 'this skill is bad because someone will Echo Frenzy Meteor Shower in AB' and similar - this is no argument, there're already people who use Frenzy as their IAS on Assassins while taking damage, but it doesn't make Frenzy a bad skill; just bad players.
I'm surprised so many people think this idea is bad and wasn't expecting that much criticism (although I must say that most critique seems to be rather ... weak). Oh well, not for me to decide on balance changes anyway.
On 40/40 sets - these are great, but not reliable. You cannot rely on them to give you spike output; to spike effectively using them you need two or more consecutive quartercasts, which is certainly rare, and not to mention that you can't get quartercasts at will.
On 50% faster WoHs, fast cast + Frenzy Mesmers and similar - have to remember than Frenzy is a stance that doubles the damage you take, especially since casters have 60 armor. You risk taking 200+ damage from a single attack while in the stance and have to be ready to cancel. If this change is implemented I highly doubt there will be any Monks brave enough to bring Frenzy. If anyone can name a certain imbalance resulting from this change please point it out.
On 'this skill is bad because casters are primary targets' and similar - well if this change is implemented there's nothing forcing a caster to bring it. If a caster doesn't want to give up his utility skills then he simply unequips Frenzy, Bit like Supportive Spirit is a bad skill but nobody's asking Monks to bring it.
On Elementalists deal a lot of damage already - there's no question that Elementalist damage is bad outside of PvE and possibly HA, and physicals deal a lot more damage. Even with this change Elementalists still get no Deep Wound, although the ability to switch targets easily would probably promote Elementalist damage.
On 'this skill is bad because someone will Echo Frenzy Meteor Shower in AB' and similar - this is no argument, there're already people who use Frenzy as their IAS on Assassins while taking damage, but it doesn't make Frenzy a bad skill; just bad players.
I'm surprised so many people think this idea is bad and wasn't expecting that much criticism (although I must say that most critique seems to be rather ... weak). Oh well, not for me to decide on balance changes anyway.
Mr. G
I'll stop this barrage of (rightly put) complaints about your skill to point out:
sooooooo not what mesmers are for, Fast casting isnt for casting other classes spells faster (which is a very nice side effect) its to stop other classes abusing the overpowered mesmer skills - oh and for stance casting, which is always nice
Quote:
| Mesmers become useless since you can now duplicate Fast Casting with Frenzy |
Darkobra
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
If this change is implemented I highly doubt there will be any Monks brave enough to bring Frenzy. If anyone can name a certain imbalance resulting from this change please point it out.
|
Jeydra
I wasn't going to post, but I can't help it - whatever.
Yes, and Frenzied Defenses Monks are all rampant. Now please enlighten me why Mo/W's are quite rare outside of RA, and even when they show up in whatever PvP format they rarely ever carry Frenzied Defenses (never, in fact, outside of RA - Frenzied Defenses doesn't even show up in TA). I mean, the Monk can always put Protective Spirit on himself right? Then he gets the fantastic 75% permablock that owns the crap out of Warriors, which in Guild Wars means over 80% of a team's damage.
/lol /laugh /sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm
Frankly I'm impressed by the number of people posting who post a few one-liners in a seemingly very-knowledgeable manner, but shoot off at tangents that all too clearly show a lack of depth. If you're going to convince me that Monks would indeed bring the new Frenzy I proposed above as well as devote two skills on their bar to Frenzy + a cancel stance, you're going to have to come up with a lot more substantial reasons.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
Protective Spirit.
|
/lol /laugh /sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm
Frankly I'm impressed by the number of people posting who post a few one-liners in a seemingly very-knowledgeable manner, but shoot off at tangents that all too clearly show a lack of depth. If you're going to convince me that Monks would indeed bring the new Frenzy I proposed above as well as devote two skills on their bar to Frenzy + a cancel stance, you're going to have to come up with a lot more substantial reasons.
tmakinen
I'm kind of entertained by the idea but I don't find the suggested implementation feasible. How about this instead:
Trance (5e 15r) Stance. For 8 seconds, your spells cast and recharge 33% faster and your skills are easily interrupted. Trance ends if you are interrupted. When Trance ends, you are Dazed for 5 seconds (Mesmer Unlinked).
Trance (5e 15r) Stance. For 8 seconds, your spells cast and recharge 33% faster and your skills are easily interrupted. Trance ends if you are interrupted. When Trance ends, you are Dazed for 5 seconds (Mesmer Unlinked).
Darkobra
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
I wasn't going to post, but I can't help it - whatever.
Yes, and Frenzied Defenses Monks are all rampant. Now please enlighten me why Mo/W's are quite rare outside of RA, and even when they show up in whatever PvP format they rarely ever carry Frenzied Defenses (never, in fact, outside of RA - Frenzied Defenses doesn't even show up in TA). I mean, the Monk can always put Protective Spirit on himself right? Then he gets the fantastic 75% permablock that owns the crap out of Warriors, which in Guild Wars means over 80% of a team's damage. /lol /laugh /sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm Frankly I'm impressed by the number of people posting who post a few one-liners in a seemingly very-knowledgeable manner, but shoot off at tangents that all too clearly show a lack of depth. If you're going to convince me that Monks would indeed bring the new Frenzy I proposed above as well as devote two skills on their bar to Frenzy + a cancel stance, you're going to have to come up with a lot more substantial reasons. |
Do you play a protection monk yourself in anything outside RA?
Perfected Shadow
Maybe tone it down to +33% casting speed.
About prot spirit, I think it's fairly easy to rip it and coordinate with a warrior to cave the monk's skull in, unless the monk's willing to blow energy on covering prot spirit all the time.
About prot spirit, I think it's fairly easy to rip it and coordinate with a warrior to cave the monk's skull in, unless the monk's willing to blow energy on covering prot spirit all the time.
DarkGanni
40/40 set and Mindbender say hello, also an essence is a permanent 25% casting/recharge. There's more than enough to cast faster, you just need to know how to.
- Ganni
- Ganni
Lourens
[protective spirit] <3
really this is a lame idea
but maybe for 8 sec all spells you cast cause 33% more damage and you take double damage ( Enchantment 25 energy 60 seconds recharge)
really this is a lame idea
but maybe for 8 sec all spells you cast cause 33% more damage and you take double damage ( Enchantment 25 energy 60 seconds recharge)
DarkNecrid
Quote:
| sooooooo not what mesmers are for, Fast casting isnt for casting other classes spells faster (which is a very nice side effect) its to stop other classes abusing the overpowered mesmer skills - oh and for stance casting, which is always nice |
This idea is rather worthless. Frenzy works on frontliners because frontliner's are rarely targeted first. A similar effect on a backliner would be devastating and never see play.
Da Rk Bl Ad E
everyone saying prot spirit, in most organised pvp before you spike the target it will be rended...Isn't that common sense?
and everyone saying mindbender, was this not aimed more at pvp use? If not sorry I've misunderstood this.
(I still think this is baed btw)
and everyone saying mindbender, was this not aimed more at pvp use? If not sorry I've misunderstood this.
(I still think this is baed btw)
Jeydra
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow
About prot spirit, I think it's fairly easy to rip it and coordinate with a warrior to cave the monk's skull in, unless the monk's willing to blow energy on covering prot spirit all the time.
|
Quote:
| and everyone saying mindbender, was this not aimed more at pvp use? If not sorry I've misunderstood this. |
In spite of all the criticism I still like the idea. Maybe the numbers aren't the best and maybe the result is imbalanced. But single change -> lots of new options. How many single changes can do that?
Snow Bunny
Just run Mesmer primaries on everything then.
Painbringer
play a mesmer
can you imagine how fast I could get off meteor shower as mesmer with this frenzy going.
can you imagine how fast I could get off meteor shower as mesmer with this frenzy going.
Aubrey
Nice try, but \notsigned. Too powerful and as primarily a weapon-basher, I hate Messies already for this! 
trankle
I'm not particularly hot on the idea (tmakinen's sounds better to me), but I have a mechanics question.
How would canceling work exactly? Let's say I activate Frenzy, then start casting Meteor Shower, with a new casting time of 2.5 seconds. As soon as I begin casting, I begin taking big damage, and I activate Sprint to cancel Frenzy. Do I still get the already started 2.5 second casting time? Does it revert back to 5 seconds? Does MS fail? Does Sprint fail until my cast is complete, making me take double damage for all 2.5 seconds?
How would canceling work exactly? Let's say I activate Frenzy, then start casting Meteor Shower, with a new casting time of 2.5 seconds. As soon as I begin casting, I begin taking big damage, and I activate Sprint to cancel Frenzy. Do I still get the already started 2.5 second casting time? Does it revert back to 5 seconds? Does MS fail? Does Sprint fail until my cast is complete, making me take double damage for all 2.5 seconds?
Zahr Dalsk
Roll a mesmer.
/notsigned
/notsigned