In search of [your help] for my Derv, 20k prize.

Quote: Voice of reason, in your own secluded and isolated way...

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Anyways, here's my evaluation of those so said "elite" and "godly" scythe Elites:

Wounding Strike 5 energy, 3 recharge
Elite Scythe Attack. If this attack hits, target foe suffers from Bleeding for 5...17...20 seconds. If you are under the effects of an enchantment, target foe also suffers from a Deep Wound for 5...17...20 seconds.

Deep Wound, is very good in PvP, but in PvE it sucks. It's effect is capped at 100hp (read up on it).
Bleeding, oh mighty bleeding... Really kills stuff with 1000 health, does it?
No damage bonus, if spammed: same as auto-attack (and you're not a warrior, so you don't get armor penetration on attacks).
Okay, the only thing you can do with this elite: spread Deep Wound and Bleeding, switch target every second hit. But then again, if Deep Wound is removed: you didn't do any damage at all. Your "godly" 100 damage, you can keep it.
Covered Deep Wound with bleeding makes it good? While devastating in PvP, apart from occasional Martyr or Restore Conditions, you won't see many conditions removal in PvE... and in case of RC, you will just heal enemy instead of actually doing any damage, not counting your auto-attack and not "non-godly" non-elite attacks.


Reaper's Sweep 5 energy, 8 recharge
Elite Scythe Attack. If this attack hits, you deal +10...34 damage. If your target was below 50% Health, you also inflict a Deep Wound for 5...17 seconds.

A bit better, nice damage, but sadly, conditional Deep Wound. Only use is to finish mobs that would die anyway. Bleh on recharge if you actually want to do any pressure with it, and not spike.

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Avatars, I'll do it in a way to slightly consume less of my time... and reader's time, cause, yes, of course, I do want you all to like me after you read this.

Avatar of Balthazar: Tank. An "elite" version of warrior with sprint...
Avatar of Dwayna: I actually like this for a tank, especially in a dungeons with all the hexes. But it's still just a tank.
Avatar of Grenth: PvP only.
Avatar of Melandru: Conditions tank, yey! Now RC, Foul Feast or even Mend Ailment is totally useless. Also include it in energy problems if you use it right before battle.
Avatar of Lyssa: This screams one word: daggers. This is actually how you turn a dervish into assassin... *wink* Lyynyyrd *wink*. This form is feared because if you actually use anything with a cast time, form does a nice spike... thus effectively shutting down the caster, by making your opponent's fear control him. In PvE, sometimes they just auto-attack (and do 300 a hit), sometimes they just wand... and sometimes you actually want to kill something before they cast a spell that can effectively wipe a party... or you know, interrupt it (thus no damage from Avatar).

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As for "too much energy management". I never heard that having a lot of energy is bad. If you can manage it with 1 or 2 non-elite skills with just the same results (never running out of energy, spammable attacks, spammable self-heals, always maxed out Radiant Scythe...), then yes, it's actually better to use your elite on something else... And don't count monk spamming enchantments on you so it can trigger Mysticism, cause then you might as well just use a battery.

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Now, rant is over. You can hate me and call me noob now.

and it would not really be efficient if your going into a [pug] and one, or two people didn't have any skills on their skill bar, or a below average build for the area, either. It would slow things down, and take more of your time & effort. I think that in any given situation, there is a skill bar that fits it best. PvE is about changing, however there are general builds that can work in a lot of situations. I did say a [few] instead of one, that I was going to switch with. he didnt say empty skillbars were good... a decent build is always going to be best. Dmitri3 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Canada, almost got to see a polar bear... :P 24 Oct 2008 at 20:53 - 52 Quote: Originally Posted by Darkside Finally! Another voice of reason...marry me!

Quote: I'll get to your other points in a minute, but this statement stands out as being particularly asinine. The last time I checked, there weren't any attack skills with an inherent +100 armor-ignoring damage bonus. The only thing better for damage than DW is DW+damage. The fact that enemies drop like flies is exactly what makes Wounding Strike powerful in PvE - enemies will die shortly after you've applied the DW, giving you fresh targets for your low recharge, on-demand DW spam.

Your spike vs. pressure argument is entirely without merit. There's nothing special about PvP that makes DW's health drop and healing reduction somehow more effective than it would be in PvE. It's still -100 health and -20% healing no matter where or how you use it, it simply makes enemies a lot easier to kill. And spiking happens all the time in PvE, it's exactly how good teams play, voicechat or not. Just because your spike doesn't land in a 1/4-second window doesn't make it somehow not a spike; you're not spiking against infuse and ninja prots, so any kind of concentrated damage becomes a de facto spike.

Energy pressure is only half of the picture. Monks convert energy and time into health - energy efficiency doesn't matter a damn bit if the healing rate isn't fast enough to save people. Thus, even if you can't pressure a monster's energy, you still significantly lower their healing rate, making kills faster. In some cases, DW can make the difference between being able to kill through heals or not.

Your second point makes even less sense - in both PvP or PvE, you need to kill enemies. That there are many more enemies in PvE actually makes the argument for Wounding Strike stronger - it's cheap and low-recharge, meaning you can cycle DW (what you call a mini "doom" tool) on crowds of enemies to kill them quickly. Whether killing an enemy is an "accomplishment" or not is irrelevant - you still have to kill them, and doing it with DW is faster.

Originally Posted by Dmitri3 snip You got pretty much everything wrong. Perhaps you'd care to explain what makes DW so punishing in PvP but unimpressive in PvE when DW has the same effect in both. Dmitri3 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Canada, almost got to see a polar bear... :P 24 Oct 2008 at 22:45 - 59 Quote: Originally Posted by Burst Cancel You got pretty much everything wrong. Perhaps you'd care to explain what makes DW so punishing in PvP but unimpressive in PvE when DW has the same effect in both. Ok. 1 - DW is effective is PvP because: spike or pressure. Pressure: it drains monks' energy because of their less efficient healing if DW isn't removed. Spike: Drops health by 100, plus 20% less healing really helps in some situations. In PvE, spike is a bad way to go, because usually you won't be on vent calling "3, 2, 1...". Pressure on energy, impossible. Mobs have additional energy regeneration, so it doesn't affect them. 2 - In PvP, you don't want anyone to die. DW pretty much is a mini "doom" tool for killing the target. It costs a lot, but it gives a lot more chances to complete the kill. In PvE, mobs drop like flies because they don't usually stop you from dishing out damage. Killing one or two monsters isn't a really big accomplishment, while in PvP, it could be devastating. 3 - In PvP, there's no bosses or high hp monsters. Players with more that 620 health are very rare. Anyway, Deep Wound is a good tool for PvP, but for PvE it's rubbish. Your enemies either drop like flies, making your DW ineffective because normal attack with +damage would do more damage anyway. Or they are really strong, with over 1000 health and take a long time to go down, in which case, DW again is ineffective since it basically only takes away 100hp, once. Tyla Emo Goth Italics Join Date: Sep 2006 24 Oct 2008 at 23:06 - 60 Quote: Originally Posted by Dmitri3 Actually, it's not even damage. It's health reduction. You can't even kill with deep wound. And it's only usable once. If you think about it; yes, it is 100 damage. Wounding Strike is like a +100 damage attack (face it, .5-2 seconds after deep wound is applied the enemy will be dead; deep wound accelerates this) and easily compared, unless for some reason you kill really slowly, which you shouldn't as a Dervish. Dmitri3 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Canada, almost got to see a polar bear... :P 24 Oct 2008 at 23:29 - 61 Quote: Originally Posted by Tyla If you think about it; yes, it is 100 damage. Wounding Strike is like a +100 damage attack (face it, .5-2 seconds after deep wound is applied the enemy will be dead; deep wound accelerates this) and easily compared, unless for some reason you kill really slowly, which you shouldn't as a Dervish. Meh, I made my point, you made yours. Let's not do Special Olympics anymore. EDIT: If I wasn't clear enough, I meant that I wouldn't post again, since it's pretty useless. I congratulate everyone that participated for winning the Olympics and becoming the most special person ever. Burst Cancel Desert Nomad Join Date: Dec 2006 Domain of Broken Game Mechanics 24 Oct 2008 at 23:58 - 62 Quote: Originally Posted by Dmitri3 Your enemies either drop like flies, making your DW ineffective because normal attack with +damage would do more damage anyway.